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Link Posted: 4/5/2022 2:51:31 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
How long is the wire?
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136'
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 2:59:45 PM EDT
[#2]
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136'
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Are you running a counterpoise for 160 meters because that is only 1/4 wavelength on 160
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 3:21:26 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Are you running a counterpoise for 160 meters because that is only 1/4 wavelength on 160
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2 were supplied, and there is a threaded terminal on the balun that I believe is where they are supposed to go, if you use them, but I have not tried it with them. I probably should put them on and try them. They would just hang straight down, as the balun is about 12' in the air.

ETA: Several posts in this forum said that counterpoises did nothing for them, so I didn't bother.
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 5:33:57 PM EDT
[#4]
@Emoto
Try the counterpoise wires but don't let them droop down. Deploy them at 90 Deg. or greater away from the direction of the radiator and keep them up in the air. (Approaching the shape of a dipole as much as possible.) The electrostatic and magnetic fields from the antenna flow between the radiators and counterpoise wires so you'll want them as widely spaced from the radiator as possible. I've seen info about 160M antennas that says that radials and counterpoise wires ought to be well above the ground because of loss' literally due to the dirt, in that the field is weakened because it has to flow through the dirt. If you can tie these off 12 feet up it would greatly improve the efficiency. That's why the broadcast industry uses 120 radials just below the ground's surface on their broadcast band antennas.

This may not give a good match because of the turns ratio of your matching device; as in my earlier suggestion, try adding wire length and see what happens to the curves you get on the analyzer. When you reach an optimum VSWR then add the counterpoise wires and see what happens.  There are two things that are important here, both the VSWR and the strength of the fields surrounding the antenna. HTH
73,
Rob
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 5:50:12 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
@Emoto
Try the counterpoise wires but don't let them droop down. Deploy them at 90 Deg. or greater away from the direction of the radiator and keep them up in the air. (Approaching the shape of a dipole as much as possible.) The electrostatic and magnetic fields from the antenna flow between the radiators and counterpoise wires so you'll want them as widely spaced from the radiator as possible. I've seen info about 160M antennas that says that radials and counterpoise wires ought to be well above the ground because of loss' literally due to the dirt, in that the field is weakened because it has to flow through the dirt. If you can tie these off 12 feet up it would greatly improve the efficiency. That's why the broadcast industry uses 120 radials just below the ground's surface on their broadcast band antennas.

This may not give a good match because of the turns ratio of your matching device; as in my earlier suggestion, try adding wire length and see what happens to the curves you get on the analyzer. When you reach an optimum VSWR then add the counterpoise wires and see what happens.  There are two things that are important here, both the VSWR and the strength of the fields surrounding the antenna. HTH
73,
Rob
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Cool beans. I will try to give it a shot this weekend.
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 5:54:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Keep us posted.
73,
Rob
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 6:11:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


2 were supplied, and there is a threaded terminal on the balun that I believe is where they are supposed to go, if you use them, but I have not tried it with them. I probably should put them on and try them. They would just hang straight down, as the balun is about 12' in the air.

ETA: Several posts in this forum said that counterpoises did nothing for them, so I didn't bother.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Are you running a counterpoise for 160 meters because that is only 1/4 wavelength on 160


2 were supplied, and there is a threaded terminal on the balun that I believe is where they are supposed to go, if you use them, but I have not tried it with them. I probably should put them on and try them. They would just hang straight down, as the balun is about 12' in the air.

ETA: Several posts in this forum said that counterpoises did nothing for them, so I didn't bother.


every antenna is a 1/2 wave dipole. that EF on 80 meters is 1/2 wave but fed from the end and has high impedance on the end which is why it needs the 49:1 unun. without a counterpoise, the shield of the coax  becomes the counterpoise. If you run at least 35 feet of coax, you have enough to have a passable counterpoise on 80m and above. On 160 mters   you need twice that so 70 feet at least ( 1/4 wavelength )

one counterpoise wire ( or coax )  lying on the ground  too long or too short may be passible and give you something, better than nothing, but it is very inefficient and untuned.

As Rob said, you will get much better efficiency with a tuned counterpoise wire in the air, better with 2, and gets better the more you have

experiments have been done for a 1/4 vertical that  show 4 tuned counterpoise wires 1 foot above the ground or more gives the same efficiency as 32 untuned radials on or in the ground.

I have an 80 EFHW that I run while camping and I attach a 1/4 wavelength tuned radial for 80 and one for 40 for regional com.

While the advertising says it works without a counterpoise, the truth is it works , but not well. It needs a counterpose to be efficient most specially crucial when the end fed wire is only 1/4 wavelength.  

All antennas are a dipole, you always have to look at the other side of the antenna. An antenna is a closed system. people say the antenna radiates, but it really doesnt, it is a closed system from the center conductor on the transmitter to the case of the transmitter ( coax shield connection ). Just like every other electrical  circuit there needs to be a return path to complete the circuit, The more efficient the return path, the less impedance in it and the power is peaked on the antenna energizing the wave that starts at the antenna. The electrons dont actually leave the wire, they energize the wave that travels but all that travels is the energy transfer much live an ocean wave, the energy travels but the water molecules dont go anywhere. So the RF needs that return path, the more efficient the return path the more efficient the antenna.

( I am bored with not much else to do right now, hope this isnt too much )
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 6:33:26 PM EDT
[#8]
It's isn't too much at all; I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. It just takes a bit for my tiny pea brain to process it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 9:00:11 AM EDT
[#9]
@Emoto
The simplest thing would be to add wire and see if you can get the VSWR down on 160M. When it gets close add the counterpoise wire and see what it does to the VSWR. With the transformer, the antenna is still looking for a high impedance, match it up and then see what the counterpoise wires do.
73,
Rob
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 9:11:12 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
It's isn't too much at all; I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. It just takes a bit for my tiny pea brain to process it.
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I just meant coming across as a know it all, I dont know it all but antennas are the thing that intrigues me about this hobby so I study them, and the little I remember from my EE degree from decades ago reinforces what I think I understand.

I just dont want to come across as an opinionated asshole. I am just trying to share what I know because I get excited about antennas.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 10:16:00 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm trying to be helpful, and explain what I know about the theory.
73,
Rob
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Mach and Rob, you have NOTHING to worry about here. You guys are tremendously helpful! For a newbie like me who has no background in anything like this stuff, it is like drinking from a firehose. I like it.

So how much wire should I try to add, at first? I assume that I can make a simple electrically conductive connection to one end, yes?
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 10:46:14 AM EDT
[#13]
if you want an EFHW and use the unun 260 feet for the antenna wire and 130 feet for the counterpoise, that should also work on other bands too with a tuner

looking at your swr , just using a tuner should get you on 160 with somewhat less 50% efficiency with a 66 foot counterpoise or so. I suspect Your 998 would do that but the 160 m EFHW lengths would be much better efficiently, that is what I would try first. I have made a few contacts with 15 watts using a 80m EFHW tuned to 160  before i put up a 160m doublet

yes, all you need is an electrical connection to add wire
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 11:22:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Hmmm. Will have to see how much I can manage to fit in there. I don't think I have enough space between the tree and the shack to double the antenna wire length with it configured as a straight line like it is. I might be able to turn it into something more like an inverted V to get the extra length...
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:40:07 PM EDT
[#15]
No problem with an inverted vee if you can keep the inside angle  > 90 Deg. That's where the current lobe is, at the center of the antenna, so you want that part the highest. The ends can come down and be bent a bit to save space.
73,
Rob
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:10:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
No, you don't need an additional stage of lightning protection. You would, however, be well advised to get a better quality arrestor. PolyPhaser or Morgan are the brands you seek.
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Seconded on poly phaser.

Also, lightning is the fat lady in the '56 caddy going 120 mph. Can't prove it,  but I've seen where a strike will jump out of an antenna line at a loop or a hard turn. Ground strap at where your antenna line makes it's turn might be useful. Can't prove that though. I've seen the aftermath of big strikes come down the coax, past the port on the building, and come in to blow hardware out of rack mounts. But than, that was an AM transmitter tower station. Those are like candy to lightning strikes, they love them.

eta: hah. Beat like a mule.
Link Posted: 4/7/2022 1:15:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Follow on question,  
If I am mounting the ICE protectors to an aluminum back plate, should I apply an anti-ox like compound to reduce oxidation or issue with dissimilar metals?

JLE
Link Posted: 4/7/2022 2:12:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Follow on question,  
If I am mounting the ICE protectors to an aluminum back plate, should I apply an anti-ox like compound to reduce oxidation or issue with dissimilar metals?

JLE
View Quote


I believe you should. I forgot to do that on one of mine, but I had intended to. Didn't realize until I had everything all buttoned up and things put away. When I get time, I will pull it off the backing plate and apply the goo. I use Jet-Lube SS-30.
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