A hypothetical question for anyone with much experience with them, If you were going to spend a few weeks in the summer off grid in the spruce woods on Kodiak or Afognak, would you rather have a 2 3/4" 12 gauge 870 with a five round tube and rifled slugs or a pre 64 model 70 in 458? Not a hunting situation but a SHTF up close and personal, things have gone to hell in a hurry situation.

Go to Alaska HTF.

Portable Electric fence for camp.

Bring guns that you are very familiar with and the Kodiak and Afognak bears are big/fat.
Multiple cans of the big bear spray cans.
Learn to use them.

The question to factor in is how good are you with follow-up shots with the .458?

Personally (with what I own) my first choice would be my Benelli M3 with Sabot slugs, second would be my Marlin lever action Guide Gun in .450 Marlin.

The .450 Marlin has more recoil than the Benelli with 3 inch sabots!

Back-up would be my Glock G20 with 6 inch barrel and heavy hard cast ammo.

lever 45-70 with me and Ruger 44 Redhawk on me.  Garrett cartridges in both.

Personally, I can run an 870 much faster than I can a Model 70. The slugs will probably be more manageable too.

Like others have said though, a side arm of no less than 10mm sounds like a needed backup.

I was up there last late last winter/ early spring for 5 weeks when they were mostly still in hibernation. I took the 870, its faster for follow up shots and has larger capacity but in my opinion not as reliable as the Winchester. In a worst case scenario there would be only a chance for one shot, maybe two. I'm wondering which round would be more effective in that situation? Probably small chance of a bad encounter anyway but I always like to be prepared. I also had my g29 with Underwood Hard cast on my belt. I really appreciate everyone's opinions.

I used to hunt Afognak and Shuyak and PW sound when I lived in Alaska, for Black tailed deer I used to bring my Sako .375 H&H.  

It makes a little entrance hole in the deer and a slightly larger exit hole, it didn't have enough resistance to expand and was very conformting to have should I have run into one of the coastal bears.

If I was going to just spend time in the woods without hunting, a 12 ga. stoked with Brenneke Black Magic slugs would be my choice.

I live in Kodiak and spend considerable time in the outdoors.I’d have to ask you which  gun are you better with.How fast can you cycle the bolt of the model 70 and hit your target or pump the 870? Attached File

I ran into this little guy on the trail last summer. A young one, maybe 400 pounds. I was carrying my model 20 Glock

The answer right here.

You'll be faster with a PROPERLY loaded 10mm G20 or G40 drawn from a chest rig than a slow-to-pump shotty or a magnum rifle that's slung over your shoulder.

And by the way, 'PROPERLY loaded' means NO watered-down, .40-level junk.  It means your G20 or G40 is loaded with REAL bear-bustin' 10mm ammo, preferably one of the coated heavy-weight hard-cast loads from DT, UW, or BB. ... i.e., 200gns @ 1270fps or 220gns @ 1200+fps.

You can thank me later when you've returned safely with your nads intact.

Welcome to the food chain.  I'd sure feel more comfortable with a 12ga with slugs than a pistol, but I don't live in bear country.

For the record, bears scare the crap out of me.  Apex predator, unpredictable behaviors, no thanks

Shot placement and penetration. Which one can you get the right shot placement with under stress? 1 perfect shot is better than 2 or 3 bad shots.

I would go the 12ga with Brenneke Black Magic (3") or Green Lightning (2 3/4").
Faster follow up shots and both rounds have more than adequate penetration for a defensive situation.

The comment about the electric fence around your camp is also good advice. You want something 1 joule or larger for bears to ensure they get a snout full of shock if they go sniffing around.

I think I would also opt for a heavy caliber handgun on my person 24/7 up there. 10mm, 44 mag, or more.

I am getting my Remington 7600 carbine chambered in 35 Whelen cerakoted- thanks for the reminder to get that done.  I suppose it could do as a potential bear gun.  It is short and light (synthetic stock).  I know diddly woo about bears, but I do know Kodiak = Rust.  Whatever you bring get the best rust resistant finish you can have applied.

I can pump out lead fast with the carbine and with better accuracy than a slug gun.  The recoil is significantly softer than a 3" slug. It is awkward to swap magazines quickly but it can be done with practice...but holy hell I would hate to have to do it.  I put an oversized safety button on it for speed reasons, an open peep sight and sling swivels fore and aft.  

Just a thought if you are used to an 870.  On the other hand with an 870 you can drop in a bird shot load and get a grouse (ptarmigan?) for the pot.

I spent 5 weeks off grid last winter, most of the bears were still asleep. I carried the 870 then along with a g29 with 220 grain Underwood hard cast and I can tell you this, I like the 10mm a lot but it is a puppy compared to a 12 gauge  one ounce rifled slug. In my opinion a long gun already in your hand is better than a handgun in a chest rig. Bill Hickok I am not. I have only ever had one black bear rush at me and it happened awfully quick.

My first time in brown bear country I carried an old pre 64 model 70 in 338-06. I had a 338 magnum but the wildcat still fired a 250 grain Nosler Partition all be it 200fps slower but it held six rounds compared to four in the magnum. That was on the tundra where visibility was was good and if you stayed out of the alder patches you weren't too likely to bump into one at close range, I only saw a handful of bears on that trip. That rifle has a stainless barrel and synthetic stock and is right up there about the same as the Whelen in power. My two hunting companions at the time carried 7600's in 35 W with Remington factory ammo. The round nosed factory rounds didn't have the ballistic coefficient of my Noslers and dropped off significantly at longer ranges but were great at close range. I have decided to stick with the 870 for defense this time around, I can get 2 shots off pretty quick. Slugs print about 6" high at 23 yards but with a hold on the center of the chest area a bear would still have a pretty bad day. I was trying to talk myself into a 458 magnum but I can run the pump faster than the bolt gun and I probably don't need another big rifle. Chances are I won't have a problem with one anyway.

Sounds like you have made a wise choice.  Brenneke slugs may be the gold standard, but start beating the bushes for your preferred slug load and buy as many as you can find.  I think Slugs are like Turkey loads and the manufacturers only make them in short production runs in anticipation for whatever seasonal demand they expect.  I hate sighting in my slug gun only to find I have shot just about all of my supply away and then have to go on a hunt for unobtanium!

Best of luck and don't forget your bug netting.

As a summer progressed I was running into bears so often that I started to carry my Valmet model 88. A 10 mm Glock with hard gas bullets is a minimum for me.

Thanks for the reminder. The bugs can be pretty bad when the rain stops. When I used to live in black fly country I seemed to aquire sort of an immunity to the little devils but that was many years ago and I'm sure they would drive me insane if they didn't bleed me dry first.

Good luck whatever you decide, but remember: "Already in your hand," is the KEY, .... which a long gun WON'T ALWAYS be 24/7.

There are just times when your rifle or shotty will be elsewhere/away from you, because you're busy doing something else with your hands.  A holstered G20 CAN BE on you, at the ready, 24/7.

Maybe you've seen this article ... "10mm G20 Stops Grizz" ...  one or two of the guys involved were occupied skinning a Moose when the Grizz decide to charge:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/alaskans-stop-grizzly-bear-charge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz6GWKT1vcM

Glock 20 with a light on the hip, gives you 31 rounds of hard hard cast penetrator rounds with a spare mag.

45-70 lever gun nearby or on you.

Bear spray as well as expect more trouble after shooting a grizz than a person in some places.

-P

I usually just had my shotgun. Depending on how nice your pre 64 is that might come into play as well. There’s a reason stainless synthetic guns became so popular. From a performance standpoint I think it would be hard to put one over the other as both are proven stoppers.

Probably a dumb question but are there any semi auto shotguns that are considered reliable enough for use in big bear country?

I would carry my 1100 and knew lots of people that carried Benelli M1/M2 guns. Honestly I've always wondered if they wouldn't be a better choice for lots of people because the vast majority don't ever train.

Pump guns are everywhere because they are cheap and solid.

True, that.

Pump guns are 'cheap and solid,' and even a complete drooling moron can be trained to rack an 870 or Mossy 500 hard enough so as to NOT short-stroke it.

The real issue is how fast can the 'chargee' operate his pump 12ga under the stress and adrenaline-rush induced by a bruin's charge  - assuming he's aware in time.

On a separate note, and this is probably beyond the O.P.'s budget and time-frame, but if I were planning to spend any extended time out and about in AK's bear-infested boonies, and wanted to do so with more than a G20, I'd send a 'donor' M1 Garand to Shuff's Parkerizing for Tim (the owner) to convert into a 16.1" Mini-G carbine in .35 Whelen. No bullshit. It's roughly the ballistic equivalent of Remmy's old M600 magnum carbine in .350 Rem. Magnum, except it's a semi-auto, not a bolt, and holds 8-rds down instead of three.

I've talked to Tim and he's built a lot of Mini-Gs for AK clients, most still chambered in .30-06, but also quite a few in .35W, which starts with an M1 profile barrel from Criterion. He mentioned there are two such Minis in use by residents on Kodiak Isl. Tim makes mods to the lower receiver to assure reliable feeding of the big heavy .35-cal Whelen bullets from an 8-rd GI clip. He also installs his version of a 'Holbrook device' to prevent premature ejection.

There's more to the details of Shuff's .35W Mini-G conversion than that, as well as build options, but I'd prefer one of those over an 870 or a Model 70.

Here's a link to a post from an Anchorage resident talking about his .35W Mini-G:

https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/shuffs-parkerizing-mini-g-in-35-whelen.25256/

More discussion of the weapon, with range report and pics, from the same guy here:

https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/oneshot-how-would-i-score.32698/#post-293565

I’ve never been a big fan of proprietary stuff like that in a life saving role but I guess if you tested it it’s probably fine. Or you could just buy a Remington Autoloader in 35 Whelen and have better sights mags and the provision for an optic. I thought a long time about doing an AR10 in 358 Winchester for a long time but never did. I figured if it ever came down to it I’d feel just fine with a mag full of premium 308’s.

I don't disagree that a mag-fed .308 AR variant would do fine in that role.

I have a 7.62 LMT LM8, but with a 16" barrel, full 10-rd mag, and a sling, it's a heavy beast. And that's iron-sighted, before mounting an optic. It's heavier even than my clip-fed, 8-rd .308 Mini-G with GI iron sights that Shuff's built for me.

But I live in the lower 48, so for a dedicated short-range, semi-auto "bush gun" down here  - for deer, hogs, or maybe elk -  the 308 or '06 chamberings are plenty enough.

I've handle a few Remmy Auto carbine in .30-06 (none in .35 Whelen) and I wasn't that impressed ... other than that they were definitely light-weight. The type of sights one prefers are more of a personal thing. I'm fine with the M1's GI sight system, although on the 16.1" Mini-Gs and 18.5" 'Tankers,' it's not uncommon to enlarge the diameter of 'peep'/aperture to allow for more light at dusk or in shaded terrain or forest.

But I've read far more complaints about the reliability problems of Remmy Autos (finicky feeding off poor mags, mainly) than with anything built off the M1 platform.  Shuff's Mini-G carbines just run and run. He's also built a number of 'Tanker' M1s for those wanting a bit more ballistics from the tad longer (18.5")  barrel.