Chicago  

This is the most sensible advice so far.
Of course, he should know.

You are missing a golden opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something big! That name brand stuff won't last forever. You need to figure out a way to set up your own distilling operations. One day you will see salesmen wandering the country selling NOT Liquors. Makers of fine suburban wiskey and spirits

I think there may be some folks in the Tenneessee hills that already have this covered.
If anyone will be commanding a premium price, I suspect it would be them.

Everclear or Vodka as it can be used for MANY things from medical on

Any alcohol has some medical value but due to the purity Everclear and Vodka
are top.  Whiskey always worked in the old west though...

It's $3.08 for 5 Lbs of white sugar.
It takes 17.5 lbs to do 5.5 gallons of sugar water/mash.

$10.78 in sugar
$6.50 for "turbo yeast" -can yeild over 20% alcohol after fermentation.
(temperature control is important to achieve much over 15%)

Will yeild just over 1 gallon of PURE CH-O5-OH if you use a good double reflux still.

Distill some water and cut it 50/50 and you get 2-gallons of 100 Proof: for $8.64 a gallon + fuel costs (to heat the still)

And I'm talking about quality no-hangover booze.

We have been making whiskey in this county since right after the revolution and shine long before that. I keep a couple of bottles in the house. After the apocalypse, the first thing that will be "built" in my hometown is a still. Shit, the reason why there is a Kentucky rifle is that is where all the PA distillers went after the whiskey rebellion.

Gotta love that Tito's vodka.

I respectfully disagree, strongly.  Unless I'm some drugged up crackhead who buys everything that's shiny, why would anyone give a damn about gold or silver when you're stuck trying to survive day to day?  Had a rough experience?  A run in with some looters that you had to put down and tough to fight through it emotionally?  The alcohol and smokes are gonna help, not shiny chunks of metal.  If you wanna be realistic you'd buy real, functional assets not chunks of metal.  Gold and silver are for use while markets still exist and nothing more.

Yeah ferfal308, you have no idea what an economic collapse may look like.

Running around killing looters, then feeling bad about it, "Ah, this end of the world war is so hard on me", says our hero and takes a final sip of his last bottle of Everclear. "I'll drop by Barter Town tomorrow" he thinks. "I'll trade a couple pelts for another bottle. The faces of the looters I've killed will not go away unless I have my booze, they haunt me every night".
Free tip that will keep your ass out of jail in the not so distant future no matter where you live in this planet: Dont shoot anyone unless your life is at risk. I've eaten burgers at McDonalds while looters tore through stores right across the street. Looters are usually busy doing their looting, unless its your property dont get involed. Its not your fight.
Ask anyone in USA, anyone that ever killed someone in self defense and later had to deal with the legal expenses of keeping his ass out fo jail. They would all LOVE to have more money.  You know what haunts people around here after killing someone? the new one their lawyer is going to rip them. Then there's the problem of the bad guys family coming after you. That happens often enough and in many cases people are forced to move. Moving costs money. All this crap makes for crappy Hollywood movies but that's the way it goes down. Money in one way or antoher makes the world go around and its still as true today as it was a thousand years ago. That shiny metal? It has been a form of wealth for the entire history, and it will continue to be that way for a long time.
Now that you mention this, the guy that took me to the shooting club yesterday, he was a cop, forced to retire after killing some peruvian in an armed confrontation. He got shot with a 38 in the hand and had antoher wound in the torso. The peruvian family sued, poor little peruvian coming to Argenitna with dreams of building a better future for his 15 kids you know? The PD left him hanging and he's now driving a remis to make a living. Seemed like a nice guy. Oh, he wasn't dealing with much emotional struggle about putting a 9mm into the head of the guy that was shooting at him, he was actually VERY pissed that the PD didn't cover his back.
FerFAL

What makes Gold and Silver so valuable?  Someone has a " desire " for the stuff, not a need for it.
If there were no desire for the stuff it would be pretty much worthless.

I know gold and silver have uses in some manufacturing but the world could function without it.

All through history it's been used pretty much for the same thing and that is ornamental in nature.

The entire global economy functions because of our desire to wear gold and silver.

At some point in history the governments of the world decided to stop letting their citizens use the actual metals in everyday life for purchases of items, instead they created coins out of ordinary metals and paper currency with a government stamp on them saying this is worth what gold and silver are worth and that gold and silver are worth something.
Without that stamp or statement of " Legal Tender " if I were to try to purchase something with it I would be told to GTFO.

What if people just didn't have the desire for the stuff anymore? What would happen to the world's economy?

What use does these metals actually have in our overall society other than the industrial and jewelry making business?  Do they really a difference in our daily lives?

If society broke down, I mean really broke down ecumenically what would you rather have, a pound of gold or a pound of sugar.

Correct me if I'm wrong but once upon time didn't spices have more value than gold and silver?

I think they were worth more because these items actually made a difference in their daily lives.

It's kind of scary to think about but the world functions on faith in metals and paper.

I think I would put my faith in something more than gold and silver for a SHTF situation, Vodka and Whiskey would work for me.

How much was this case of Everclear?

Any thoughts on cheap plastic bottle vs more expensive glass bottle booze?  Will the plastic store as long?

I bought it about 3 years ago so I cant remember what it cost me. It was on sale i think it  was cost per bottle -15% for buying a case
 

Everclear (grain alcohol) is one of the best fuels to burn in a Trangia stove (or can stove).
FerFAL

It's what I have been using. It has the distinct advantage of not being toxic when it gets on your skin (like industrial HEAT alcohol is) and it burns easily (unlike medical rubbing alcohol).

I definitely plan on buying large quantities of it when I have the chance.

What he said..

Wouldn't that depend on the person who wanted to obtain booze from you?

Just don't drop the box with the glass bottles in it!

Dropping cheap plastic bottles may be just as bad.

Buy what you, family and friends like to drink. You dont want to be sitting on a stock pile of crap you arent going to use and cycle your stock

I don't think booze in glass won't go bad. it will be good for a long time

I think it depends on just who you are trading with.  An alcoholic will not be picky, but is also not likely to have goods or services worth bartering for beyond menial labor.  If trading with another prepper, their personal tastes would determine if they wanted what you had.

Some brand names, such as Jack Daniels, are very well known and might be used as trade goods, in the sense that some people may accept a sealed bottle not to drink it, but to pass it on unopened to another trade partner in exchange for something else.  If buying such brands, looks for distinctive labels with high proof counts, such as Wild Turkey 101 or Bacardi 151.  Note that some bottles can be bought in gift boxes or tubes that will partially protect the bottle from both shock and sunlight.

Also, note that whisky supplies my be disrupted in a long term crisis more than some other spirits.  Whisky has to be aged for years in charred wooden barrels.  The whisky that is released for sale this year from the distilleries was harvested as grain long ago, then aged in barrels for years, and only then bottled and sold.  Anything that interrupts that process, by grain shortages or social problems, will result in shortages years later.  The whisky industry in America was devastated by Prohibition and it took decades to build up stocks of aged product.  Americans turned to Canadian or Scotch, or to other spirits such as vodka and rum.

In the aftermath of a widespread catastrophe, it is possible that liquor production may cease or be limited by government order, to conserve grain supplies for food.    Such a production reduction would cause an automatic price increase and create a black market for distillers of low grade product.  The rich, who would be more likely to have something worth trading for, might still be willing to pay top dollar for older, better, top shelf products with recognizable brand names.

And if they don't want it, you can always drink the good stuff yourself.


Steve

Yup. Only guy on here who has been through a real shtf, economic collapse, and the fantasy campers will invariably argue their non-experiencial position with fanastic ideas of taking a shot of jack after saving the coffee shack girl from the murdering cannibal rapist looters. If there is someone on this forum to listen to, it would be FERFAL.

Good grief.........

Apple Pie Moonshine!  



Seriously though, during prohibition, Moonshine was in high high demand.  Am I wrong?



So what's the difference?  If TEOTWAEKI or S really HTF occurs, I think if you have something with alcohol in it, you're golden.  



That being said, I'm gonna grab about 10 bottles of Everclear.  That stuff made some serious punch in the 80's.  

You do know I was being sarcastic, right?

Ferfal is right, but precious metals are way too expensive , I bought some a $60 an oz....that was good, the next time was $72 a 1/4 oz.....those days are long gone. As for booze.......I stock what MrsWind and the next MsWind drink. I would rather get them drunk, then some guy down the block. I have a habit of stocking up and buying on sale.

Yeah, I know you were being sarcastic, as was I. I find it ironic when people argue with a guy who has lived through shtf and by all accounts thrived, and discount his advice.

I've read a lot of post by Ferfal but know nothing of his shtf
What did he experience?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I didn't read the entire thread so ignore if this has been said....

The OP must have really advanced supplies if he/she is adding liquor for bartering purposes.  I would think FOOD would be a great barter item that could (obviously) also be consumed by the OP.  I guess if you have enough: FOOD, WATER, AMMO, MED SUPPLIES, in a secure location with no debt...then alcohol makes some sense.

I just read the entire thread...

I still say FOOD will be the ultimate barter item.  EVERYONE has to eat.  Not everyone wants liquor or so-called "precious" metals. My entire survival philosophy is based upon meeting the inescapable primary needs of humanity:  FOOD, WATER, SHELTER, DEFENSE (including medicines...or put another way...defense against debilitating disease).

I'm not taking anything away from ferfal308's experience.  However, I will say that in a protracted situation like TEOTWAWKI the BASICS will be more important than anything else.  I watched a program on ON DEMAND last night about a "horde" of gold found in England.  This Saxony gold was used to make fittings and parts for swords and knives.  The historians said the majority of Saxony people would have NEVER EVEN HELD gold.  I bet, however, every single one of them ate roughly daily.

http://natgeotv.com/uk/saxon-gold-finding-the-hoard

If you:

* Are 100% debt free
* Own a secure and defensible home
* Have enough of a nest egg to stave off mid-term unemployment problems
* Own YEARS worth of food
* Own MONTHS worth of water and a never ending purification system
* Own MONTHS worth of medications
* Have 50,000+ rounds of ammo stockpiled and absolutely the best weapons made for them

....then by all means start investing in chunks of metal or distilled drinks.  If you don't have the basics - why even consider silver/gold and booze?

Maybe I'm missing something

if I recall correctly, FERFAL lived throught the economic collapse and subsequent all hell breaking loose in argentina. From what I have read, he has never espoused a philosphy of buying precious metals before beans, bullets, bandaids. I believe the point of his posts were if you are fully vested in those items which will keep your family alive, and are looking for nothing more than items for barter, then precious metals are a better bet than booze, cigarettes etc, because in the event that all hell doesn't break loose, the precious metals will continue to be a precious commodity, while a case of HRD rot-gut whiskey is just that, and of no real value unless prohibition is re-enacted.

I am in agreement with you, get the basics in volume, buy cheap and stack deep before thinking of all the other armchair survivalist crap. Learn skills, plant gardens, attend firearms classes, etc, and get as debt free as possible, as quickly as possible.

Where do you find any with stamps on them? time machine?  I haven't seen any of those in years.

Ferfal308 lives in Argentina, they suffered an economic collapse.
The government amassed huge debts and was full of corrupt politicians, there was 18%+ unemployment, riots, gangs......
Read some about it here.
He also has a blog.

Be thankful that nothing like that could ever happen here.
(Edited for spelling)

Thanks, Looks interesting.

You mean ( Be thankful that nothing like that could ever happen here ) I've been worrying for nothing.

exactly, everything is fine, please move along.

Ja! Today someone asked if I would sell him a few good wines I had left. Since this person was already helping out with other things I just gave them to him. Of course he wouldn’t have paid more than it costs at the stores but it was interesting to see what people like.
These were a few good Navarro Correa 2000 Malbecs red wines and a couple Felipe Rutini cabernet sauvignon bottles. Not for your average booze drinker but someone that appreciates a good “tinto”.
Guess what sold the best of everything I had around?
Toys! Freaking toys!
Since the importations stopped, especially now with the restriction on foreign currency, people are going nuts over quality toys.
I've sold some well used ones for more than what I originally paid for them.
First class furniture, ammo, even guns (except for my Glocks), that's all taking considerable effort to sell, but the toys got sold in a few days.
Other than that what really helped was a friend of ours making a list of everything, even things we thought we'd just have to throw away, she sold it to people in her office.
The key was the low price. For 50 or 100 pesos (10-20 USD) we sold a ton of stuff. That price range was the sweet spot, we even sold a beaten up stainless garbage can we had in the kitchen. We also took two cars full of toys and clothes to be donates to an orphan home that we know.
FerFAL

I know plenty of alcoholic machinists, engineers, farmers, skilled construction workers/foremen, doctors, gunsmiths.  It's not as demographically constrained as say heroin or crack addicts.

Look at what the FAA tests for- These are probally some of the highest skilled blue collar workers (A&P mechanics) and probally the highest skilled drug tested white collar workers (airline pilots), all of whom know that will loose a good paying occupation (not just job) if they get caught.    I've seen numbers, and they are low, but significant number of positives for alcohol.  Unlike pot, this is an easy drug to use on the weekend and be fit for duty monday AM.  Yet there are enough guys that can't resist.