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Link Posted: 1/15/2014 4:02:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
I hadn't heard that but I haven't been following NFA law updates as closely as I used to. AFAIK it is still in place. Suppressor are, and have-been exempt for a long time, maybe that is what you are thinking about? AFAIK you still have to do a 5320.20 for SBRs.
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What about AOW's?  See I've got a can and an AOW...and I was on the phone a LOT with the ATF ...so much that the agent knew me by name.  It was because the guy that made my AOW a couple years ago and then tried jerking me around.  Anyway, I know she said something had changed recently (back then) about not needing to notify them when traveling interstate.  

But again, not sure if that was everything or just one or two types.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 4:05:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rightwingnut:


sarcasm?

if SHTF, you will still have to deal w/ police etc.  Even if not, you don't want to give some jumpy scared guy reason to shoot you b/c you walk down the road outside his house.
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Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Have a way to carry it discreetly.

Otherwise you will attract a lot of attention.
but i thought in shtf you want to have the big guns and multicam pacs, am I wrong?

What are we talking about here
 


sarcasm?

if SHTF, you will still have to deal w/ police etc.  Even if not, you don't want to give some jumpy scared guy reason to shoot you b/c you walk down the road outside his house.


Yes, and there's the problem. You WILL still have to deal with police. If you're open-carrying an AR-type weapon or other long arm you are almost certainly going to have problems. If you look like that type (like many of us, mil/LEO types) and you've got some tacticool bag that might be carrying something interesting, you will probably also have problems with the police. And if there aren't a bunch of other people open-carrying firearms, you are going to stick out like a sore thumb.

If you're in a vehicle, fine - carry whatever your state allows. Otherwise, gray man your way home. A decent CCW with some spare mags should be sufficient in anything short of a Mad Max scenario.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 4:13:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gastard:

Texas  and  Pa .  are  almost  two  planets  away  from  each  other  should  the  SHTF . The  shithole  that  is  Mexico  is  just  miles  away  down  there .Should  anyone  follow me  for  more  than  half  a block  during  such  times , the  response  would  be  appropriate .
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A threat is a threat, doesn't matter if you are talking about the arctic circle or Somalia.  That being said, it might be easier to distinguish a threat in one place compared to another so this is where location does matter.  So if a half a block of following is commonly known as a threat to pretty much everyone in that area, ok.  

Personally, I'd want more than just someone following me along a single route of travel before I engage and/or kill them.  Maybe spend a few minutes and make 4 lefts and see if they are still behind you (just a random example for city/suburban travel)...something along those lines.  Even then I'd still want to confront/communicate with them to gather a little more intel before I start letting rounds fly.

Just to play devil's advocate, it could be a pregnant mother following me and she's just doing so at a distance assuming I know where I'm going being she is desperate...but at the same time afraid to approach me for fear of rape, robbery, or death.  

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 4:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 4:20:39 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By Gastard:

Texas  and  Pa .  are  almost  two  planets  away  from  each  other  should  the  SHTF . The  shithole  that  is  Mexico  is  just  miles  away  down  there .Should  anyone  follow me  for  more  than  half  a block  during  such  times , the  response  would  be  appropriate .
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Originally Posted By Gastard:
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By 1IV:
Rifles that fold for 100 Alex.

Why a rifle? Because nothing says stop following me like instant death. Pistols are too easy to hide from, and long range is a guessing game.

I live in Texas. If the power goes out my threats will be  Food- dogs- people- I don't want to argue or have to shoot twice.

7.62x39 is a killer.


Holy hell dude...are you serious or was that said in sarcasm?!?

I'd hope you wouldn't kill people because they wanted to argue with you or follow you!  Plus water should probably come before even food in that list of "threats".  

But again, sometimes I can't tell when someones being humorous online.  

-Emt1581


Texas  and  Pa .  are  almost  two  planets  away  from  each  other  should  the  SHTF . The  shithole  that  is  Mexico  is  just  miles  away  down  there .Should  anyone  follow me  for  more  than  half  a block  during  such  times , the  response  would  be  appropriate .


No, that would not be appropriate, it is pretty fucked up to say you'd kill someone for following you for a half block or whatever. Pretty much the same argument as "Trayvon had every right to hit that cracker mofo, he was followin' him" or something. Even in Iraq you couldn't get away with that shit. It's pretty close to punching someone in the face because they looked at you wrong.

And for the record I'd MUCH rather be down here in TX a few miles away from Mexico (where it's already SHTF, every day all day) than NY in a really bad situation.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 4:59:09 PM EDT
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.

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Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:19:38 PM EDT
And how do any of you plan on being able to quickly deploy a long gun that is hidden in a bag of some sort? Kinda the whole ccw with an empty chamber debate, if you are going to need a gun you going to need in RFN.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:23:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mpatch:
And how do any of you plan on being able to quickly deploy a long gun that is hidden in a bag of some sort? Kinda the whole ccw with an empty chamber debate, if you are going to need a gun you going to need in RFN.
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Mine could be worn easily under a coat.  Plus since it can fire when folded, it would just mean grabbing the barrel, yanking it out and it's ready to go.

Is it as fast as a handgun (if drawing it from the bag), no.  It would take an extra second or two.  But it's a LOT more capable.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:24:10 PM EDT
I have no interest in storing a rifle in my truck, nor do I think it would be useful in 99.9% of realistic “get home” scenarios. In most situations it would just draw negative attention.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:25:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 5:31:44 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.
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And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:32:10 PM EDT
Depends on where you live
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:32:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


What about AOW's?  See I've got a can and an AOW...and I was on the phone a LOT with the ATF ...so much that the agent knew me by name.  It was because the guy that made my AOW a couple years ago and then tried jerking me around.  Anyway, I know she said something had changed recently (back then) about not needing to notify them when traveling interstate.  

But again, not sure if that was everything or just one or two types.

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
I hadn't heard that but I haven't been following NFA law updates as closely as I used to. AFAIK it is still in place. Suppressor are, and have-been exempt for a long time, maybe that is what you are thinking about? AFAIK you still have to do a 5320.20 for SBRs.


What about AOW's?  See I've got a can and an AOW...and I was on the phone a LOT with the ATF ...so much that the agent knew me by name.  It was because the guy that made my AOW a couple years ago and then tried jerking me around.  Anyway, I know she said something had changed recently (back then) about not needing to notify them when traveling interstate.  

But again, not sure if that was everything or just one or two types.

-Emt1581

AOW & Suppressor (I forgot to include AOW in my above response) are both exempt from the 5320.20. DD, MG, SBR, & SBS are all required by law to have a completed/approved 5320.20 before they cross state lines.

Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.

And it's still putting a handgun round on target... If you're going to have the size of a rifle you may as well have the effectiveness of a rifle too... PCC offer very little advantage to the situation as I see it... just my opinion though
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:39:16 PM EDT
+1 on a soft sided guitar case.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:42:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:44:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:

AOW & Suppressor (I forgot to include AOW in my above response) are both exempt from the 5320.20. DD, MG, SBR, & SBS are all required by law to have a completed/approved 5320.20 before they cross state lines.


And it's still putting a handgun round on target... If you're going to have the size of a rifle you may as well have the effectiveness of a rifle too... PCC offer very little advantage to the situation as I see it... just my opinion though
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Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
I hadn't heard that but I haven't been following NFA law updates as closely as I used to. AFAIK it is still in place. Suppressor are, and have-been exempt for a long time, maybe that is what you are thinking about? AFAIK you still have to do a 5320.20 for SBRs.


What about AOW's?  See I've got a can and an AOW...and I was on the phone a LOT with the ATF ...so much that the agent knew me by name.  It was because the guy that made my AOW a couple years ago and then tried jerking me around.  Anyway, I know she said something had changed recently (back then) about not needing to notify them when traveling interstate.  

But again, not sure if that was everything or just one or two types.

-Emt1581

AOW & Suppressor (I forgot to include AOW in my above response) are both exempt from the 5320.20. DD, MG, SBR, & SBS are all required by law to have a completed/approved 5320.20 before they cross state lines.

Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.

And it's still putting a handgun round on target... If you're going to have the size of a rifle you may as well have the effectiveness of a rifle too... PCC offer very little advantage to the situation as I see it... just my opinion though


Oh ok, so then my two are the exceptions.  That works!  

I agree about PCC's...and that's why I went with an SU-16C...larger and heavier but a LOT more options and capabilities.  I've still come close to buying a Sub2000 so many times I've lost count.  It's just a neat gun IMHO.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:46:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JCHammer:
+1 on a soft sided guitar case.
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As has been pointed out though, and to be honest I'd never considered it, but someone lugging around a guitar (case) during a SHTF is going to be perplexing to pretty much ANYONE paying attention.  

Kinda like saying "yup...just me and my guitar...and we don't need anything else to survive!"...

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:48:18 PM EDT
Solves many decision issues.

Uppers are available.

One Solution
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 5:59:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 6:03:26 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581



Do you think that LEOs don't know what MOLLE is? Do you think that gangbangers don't know what it is? Do you think that they can't figure out that "Guy with Molle Pack = Guy with Guns / Other Cool Stuff"? Yeah, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and the bag itself tells me (or a LEO, or a thug) that you like cool stuff. Gear. Gunz... And that's why I DON'T use any such packs - even though I have more than I can even keep track of - as a GHB or BOB.

You mentioned Katrina earlier. In a chaotic situation like that both the cops and the bad guys will tend to take advantage of the situation - the cops will take liberties to protect themselves, and the bad guys will take liberties to steal your shit. Either way, laws get broken, and there is less restraint. You, lone guy walking down the street with tacticool pack, sticks out to both parties. The thugs will want your shit, and the cops... will want your shit, just in a different way. They WILL stop and search you in a Katrina-like situation.

A pack like that very much WILL attract attention that you don't want. Does that clarify?

ETA: I had a badass Eberlestock in Multicam a few years back that I tried to turn into a BOB. I eventually gave up that project when the logic overcame my lust for sexy gear. You're better off in most situations with a cheapo Jansport or something that doesn't draw any looks. The grey man is good.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:03:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:



Do you think that LEOs don't know what MOLLE is? Do you think that gangbangers don't know what it is? Do you think that they can't figure out that "Guy with Molle Pack = Guy with Guns / Other Cool Stuff"? Yeah, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and the bag itself tells me (or a LEO, or a thug) that you like cool stuff. Gear. Gunz... And that's why I DON'T use any such packs - even though I have more than I can even keep track of - as a GHB or BOB.

You mentioned Katrina earlier. In a chaotic situation like that both the cops and the bad guys will tend to take advantage of the situation - the cops will take liberties to protect themselves, and the bad guys will take liberties to steal your shit. Either way, laws get broken, and there is less restraint. You, lone guy walking down the street with tacticool pack, sticks out to both parties. The thugs will want your shit, and the cops... will want your shit, just in a different way. They WILL stop and search you in a Katrina-like situation.

A pack like that very much WILL attract attention that you don't want. Does that clarify?
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581



Do you think that LEOs don't know what MOLLE is? Do you think that gangbangers don't know what it is? Do you think that they can't figure out that "Guy with Molle Pack = Guy with Guns / Other Cool Stuff"? Yeah, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and the bag itself tells me (or a LEO, or a thug) that you like cool stuff. Gear. Gunz... And that's why I DON'T use any such packs - even though I have more than I can even keep track of - as a GHB or BOB.

You mentioned Katrina earlier. In a chaotic situation like that both the cops and the bad guys will tend to take advantage of the situation - the cops will take liberties to protect themselves, and the bad guys will take liberties to steal your shit. Either way, laws get broken, and there is less restraint. You, lone guy walking down the street with tacticool pack, sticks out to both parties. The thugs will want your shit, and the cops... will want your shit, just in a different way. They WILL stop and search you in a Katrina-like situation.

A pack like that very much WILL attract attention that you don't want. Does that clarify?


Oh it absolutely clarifies your position.  Now I'm curious what bags you feel we should all be using for GHB/BOB?  

As for the webbing, there's always the quick fix of a rain cover...no?  

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:04:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 6:05:25 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


Oh it absolutely clarifies your position.  Now I'm curious what bags you feel we should all be using for GHB/BOB?  

As for the webbing, there's always the quick fix of a rain cover...no?  

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581



Do you think that LEOs don't know what MOLLE is? Do you think that gangbangers don't know what it is? Do you think that they can't figure out that "Guy with Molle Pack = Guy with Guns / Other Cool Stuff"? Yeah, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and the bag itself tells me (or a LEO, or a thug) that you like cool stuff. Gear. Gunz... And that's why I DON'T use any such packs - even though I have more than I can even keep track of - as a GHB or BOB.

You mentioned Katrina earlier. In a chaotic situation like that both the cops and the bad guys will tend to take advantage of the situation - the cops will take liberties to protect themselves, and the bad guys will take liberties to steal your shit. Either way, laws get broken, and there is less restraint. You, lone guy walking down the street with tacticool pack, sticks out to both parties. The thugs will want your shit, and the cops... will want your shit, just in a different way. They WILL stop and search you in a Katrina-like situation.

A pack like that very much WILL attract attention that you don't want. Does that clarify?


Oh it absolutely clarifies your position.  Now I'm curious what bags you feel we should all be using for GHB/BOB?  

As for the webbing, there's always the quick fix of a rain cover...no?  

-Emt1581



What should you be using? Something that doesn't attract attention. It's not that hard to figure out.

As for a rain cover... Just make it look like a run-of-the-mill civilian pack.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:06:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 6:07:02 PM EDT by Emt1581]
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:

What should you be using? Something that doesn't attract attention. It's not that hard to figure out.

As for a rain cover... Just make it look like a run-of-the-mill civilian pack.
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And I'm not saying it is.  I just asked what you suggested...as in maybe some specific packs you are partial to or ones you like/own.  As you said...not real hard.

And about the rain cover idea?

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:08:27 PM EDT
Emt1581 - don't get twisted in knots over a bag. It's a bag. It's not rocket science, and it likely won;t get used like a military bag, so it doesn't need to be bomb proof.

Being discrete is more important.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:12:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 6:12:55 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


And I'm not saying it is.  I just asked what you suggested...as in maybe some specific packs you are partial to or ones you like/own.  As you said...not real hard.

And about the rain cover idea?

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:

What should you be using? Something that doesn't attract attention. It's not that hard to figure out.

As for a rain cover... Just make it look like a run-of-the-mill civilian pack.


And I'm not saying it is.  I just asked what you suggested...as in maybe some specific packs you are partial to or ones you like/own.  As you said...not real hard.

And about the rain cover idea?

-Emt1581


Use whatever you want. Get a cheapo Jansport. People here obsess over packs and end up spending way too much money on them. I know, I am guilty of the same thing. I have a closet full of gear that I'll never use, and my BOB is a fairly mundane Kelty. that I also use for camping. (my real BOB is a duffel loaded with shit for the family that I toss in the vehicle, but we're talking backpacks, I guess).

If you are going to wear a military style pack then it will draw attention. Even non-military people notice it (and the thugs definitely notice it).

As for the rain cover... I just answered that one.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:14:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Emt1581 - don't get twisted in knots over a bag. It's a bag. It's not rocket science, and it likely won;t get used like a military bag, so it doesn't need to be bomb proof.

Being discrete is more important.
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See personally I went with Maxpedition because their gear is the only stuff that holds up to my use (abuse).  Plus they have good...not great...customer service.  So I did need something harder use.  And what I've found is that going with gear that does not have the millitary aspects to it...but yet is just as tough...is usually a LOT more expensive.

Honestly, I do disagree about the molle attracting attention only due to how popular it is even with the tree hugging granola munchers nowadays.  But I'd never considered a rain fly to conceal it (or just keep it somewhat dry) just in case.  So I got something out of the deal.  

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:22:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Kel-tec Sub 2000 folded in a small bag of some kind in same caliber as your Glock with stick mags.

Or something like a Kel-tec Su-16 or PLR-16
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I agree with this, and if you want to take it to the next level (not my pic):


Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2014 6:27:58 PM EDT by fisterkev]
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


See personally I went with Maxpedition because their gear is the only stuff that holds up to my use (abuse).  Plus they have good...not great...customer service.  So I did need something harder use.  And what I've found is that going with gear that does not have the millitary aspects to it...but yet is just as tough...is usually a LOT more expensive.

Honestly, I do disagree about the molle attracting attention only due to how popular it is even with the tree hugging granola munchers nowadays.  But I'd never considered a rain fly to conceal it (or just keep it somewhat dry) just in case.  So I got something out of the deal.  

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Emt1581 - don't get twisted in knots over a bag. It's a bag. It's not rocket science, and it likely won;t get used like a military bag, so it doesn't need to be bomb proof.

Being discrete is more important.


See personally I went with Maxpedition because their gear is the only stuff that holds up to my use (abuse).  Plus they have good...not great...customer service.  So I did need something harder use.  And what I've found is that going with gear that does not have the millitary aspects to it...but yet is just as tough...is usually a LOT more expensive.

Honestly, I do disagree about the molle attracting attention only due to how popular it is even with the tree hugging granola munchers nowadays.  But I'd never considered a rain fly to conceal it (or just keep it somewhat dry) just in case.  So I got something out of the deal.  

-Emt1581


I have some Maxpedition gear and love it. I am OK using it as EDC, because when people are being civil I am not too worried about it, and it does hold up well.

But when you are in chaos, and you don't have a team with you (military, LEO, a gang - backup) it DOES attract attention. People like me home in on it. I can see it from a mile away. So can LEOs, so can thugs. They are attracted to shiny objects, and your bombproof pack is a shiny object. They KNOW what it means, just as I and the LEOs do. You can disagree with that if you want, but as one who is coming from the military side of things, and who knows both LEOs (I worked for the fed for 7 years and with many LEOs) and thugs (I was young once) think, I know they see things much the same as I do. They will see it, and it will mean something to them - it will mean that you're probably carrying a firearm, first of all. Second, if you're carrying that, you've probably got other shit worth stealing as well.

Agree or disagree with me at your discretion. I am telling you how people like me think and how we see things - and what we see when we see a pack like that. Believe me, I didn't sell my Eberlestock - or my 3 Kifarus - for no reason. I'd highly advise you to think it through before spending more money, or using something that might get you into the very trouble you're trying to avoid.

Gear like that has its place. Just think hard about what its place actually is.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:33:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:
I have some Maxpedition gear and love it. I am OK using it as EDC, because when people are being civil I am not too worried about it, and it does hold up well.

But when you are in chaos, and you don't have a team with you (military, LEO, a gang - backup) it DOES attract attention. People like me home in on it. I can see it from a mile away. So can LEOs, so can thugs. They are attracted to shiny objects, and your bombproof pack is a shiny object. They KNOW what it means, just as I and the LEOs do. You can disagree with that if you want, but as one who is coming from the military side of things, and who knows both LEOs (I worked for the fed for 7 years and with many LEOs) and thugs (I was young once) think, I know they see things much the same as I do. They will see it, and it will mean something to them - it will mean that you're probably carrying a firearm, first of all. Second, if you're carrying that, you've probably got other shit worth stealing as well.

Agree or disagree with me at your discretion. I am telling you how people like me think and how we see things - and what we see when we see a pack like that. Believe me, I didn't sell my Eberlestock - or my 3 Kifarus - for no reason. I'd highly advise you to think it through before spending more money, or using something that might get you into the very trouble you're trying to avoid.

Gear like that has its place. Just think hard about what its place actually is.
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Well after our chat I think I'll be shopping for and tossing a rain fly in.  But the pack works too well for me to abandon it due to cosmetic issues.  

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:34:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gastard:

Texas  and  Pa .  are  almost  two  planets  away  from  each  other  should  the  SHTF . The  shithole  that  is  Mexico  is  just  miles  away  down  there .Should  anyone  follow me  for  more  than  half  a block  during  such  times , the  response  would  be  appropriate .
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First, how exactly do you know that the people walking behind you are following you?  If you start slinging your rifle around any time a potential threat pops up you are asking for trouble.  It's not good to be thought of as dangerous by everyone in the area.  

Second, put yourself in the bad guy's shoes.  If you were the bad guy during SHTF looking to take out a guy and steal his stuff how would you go about it?  Would you let him see you follow him for half a block?  Don't assume that bad guys would have no weapons and no brains.  That's possible, but not something you can bet your life on.  More than likely they will attack you in a way which favors them, not you.  If you are carrying a rifle they can see they will put you down before you know you've been noticed.  Isn't that how you would do it if you were the bad guy?  If your rifle is concealed in your pack then you might not be able to deploy it fast enough during an attack.  I agree with the OP that a pistol is adequate defense in most GH situations and it doesn't attract unwanted attention (from good guys or bad guys), and it weighs a lot less too which could be a big factor during a physically demanding get home/bug out situation.  
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 6:46:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Depends on where you live
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I live in the middle of rafting hiking and rock climbing country. Lots of hipsters rolling around carrying sling type packs.  VERY rural in most parts here and my pack would not create a stir.  

That gun will snap down in place in less than five seconds.  Just seems feasible to me right now.  May change at a later date.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 7:10:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
Nobody has said the arfcom famous "get both"? When I'm traveling, I carry an AR with collapsible stock, and my EDC G30. This should be enough "don't mess with me" to allow me to get home safely. Most scenarios I anticipate will allow me to drive home, although maybe by secondary or tertiary roads. If I'm on foot, travel under the cover of darkness and away from any cities (which would be easy for me to do) would be the solution.
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This.. I have a rifle and pistol in my vehicle at all times.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 7:33:16 PM EDT
I do a lot of driving within about 4 hours from home, and I use the pack below.  It will hold my Yugo Underfolder without any issues at all.  is it quick to get to?  Hell no.  however that is what my Sig 228 is for - to buy you a little time.  I am a big fan of the "granola style"  -khaki cargo pants, usually tan or OD, blue, grey, black or brown sweatshirt, etc.  You can blend in just about anywhere - both in public or in the woods.  Everything is functional, but kind of the "grey man" approach.  Less attention is good.  

I do have much more "military" equipment - both issued and purchased if needed, but as a longer range GHB nothing is more comfortable for a long walk or blends as well as my northface.

Link Posted: 1/15/2014 8:00:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


As has been pointed out though, and to be honest I'd never considered it, but someone lugging around a guitar (case) during a SHTF is going to be perplexing to pretty much ANYONE paying attention.  

Kinda like saying "yup...just me and my guitar...and we don't need anything else to survive!"...

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By JCHammer:
+1 on a soft sided guitar case.


As has been pointed out though, and to be honest I'd never considered it, but someone lugging around a guitar (case) during a SHTF is going to be perplexing to pretty much ANYONE paying attention.  

Kinda like saying "yup...just me and my guitar...and we don't need anything else to survive!"...

-Emt1581

Uhmmm, Having the rifle in the guitar case allows one to have a rifle with them IF the SHTF. I think a persons chances of slipping out of a building or backdoor or window with a soft sided guitar case are a hell of a lot better than slipping out of a bad situation trying to OC an AR15...  Also if you did get cornered by a individual or 2 individuals you still have options as to how to proceed from there(which would be totally up to you and the scenario) ...after all we don't know when the situation will present itself but I will say this.. I like my chances better, starting with a rifle than without. It may become a liability out in the open but something that enabled me to shoot free initially dump and rely on my EDC. IMHO
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 8:10:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JCHammer:

Uhmmm, Having the rifle in the guitar case allows one to have a rifle with them IF the SHTF. I think a persons chances of slipping out of a building or backdoor or window with a soft sided guitar case are a hell of a lot better than slipping out of a bad situation trying to OC an AR15...  Also if you did get cornered by a individual or 2 individuals you still have options as to how to proceed from there(which would be totally up to you and the scenario) ...after all we don't know when the situation will present itself but I will say this.. I like my chances better, starting with a rifle than without. It may become a liability out in the open but something that enabled me to shoot free initially dump and rely on my EDC. IMHO
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You do what works for you.  I'll do what works for me.  Deal?

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 8:48:41 PM EDT
Get home is a pistol for me. The idea is to be as low profile as possible if I have to foot it home. A pistol concealed plus two spare mags is what I will be using.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 9:20:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mpatch:
And how do any of you plan on being able to quickly deploy a long gun that is hidden in a bag of some sort? Kinda the whole ccw with an empty chamber debate, if you are going to need a gun you going to need in RFN.
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w/ that 5.11 sling pack, you sling the pack in fron tand yank it out of htere, real quick like.  Or, you can get the pistol first on the chest
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 9:22:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By fisterkev:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
I say again...Sub 2000 This is fully concealed 22 rounds of 180 grain goodness very discreetly on your back. And it is compatible with my CCW Glock 23.


And walking around with a SUB 2000 in a pack like that makes you an instant target of both LEOs and homies, especially in a SHTF situation.

It's a great truck gun. But backpacking with a long gun in takedown like that is just asking for trouble. If you've going to do it then you need a VERY DISCRETE way of carrying it. The tacticool pack with the blade on the molle is a bit, uh... sorta sticks out.

Your main concern should be CCW - and not in a bag. Which will be sufficient in anything short of a TEOTWAKI situation.


I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm very curious to get some clarification here.  Are you saying that basically ANYONE with a a backpack that has webbing is just asking for trouble?  If so I'd say that's the VAST majority of our GHB/BOB nowadays.  Even camping packs (which a lot of us use) have webbing on them.  ...or were you just zeroing in on the blade?

Now as far as the folding gun in the backpack being an invitation to trouble from LE/thugs...is there something that tells you there's a gun in that bag vs. the same bag without a gun in it?  

-Emt1581


frankly, a LEO is gonna see that pack and see "tactical" and will hassel you, if he doesn't have respect for the constitution.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 9:24:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Solves many decision issues.

Uppers are available.

One Solution
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NOPE.  that caliber isn't fit for shooting rats, much less people.  Sure it will penetrate soft body armor.  big whoop
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 9:26:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


Oh it absolutely clarifies your position.  Now I'm curious what bags you feel we should all be using for GHB/BOB?  

As for the webbing, there's always the quick fix of a rain cover...no?  

-Emt1581
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Bro, I see you are invested in your gear.  I get it.  

I dont' know abotu a thug knowing anyting about pals loops, but today's modern cargo pant LEO sure as hell will notice it and wonder about it slightly retangular shape.
Link Posted: 1/15/2014 10:01:41 PM EDT
updated the OP and FP
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 3:22:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Bro, I see you are invested in your gear.  I get it.  

I dont' know abotu a thug knowing anyting about pals loops, but today's modern cargo pant LEO sure as hell will notice it and wonder about it slightly retangular shape.
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Take a look at the last few posts, specifically the part where we talk about a rain cover.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 6:32:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 6:35:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 7:52:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2014 8:32:35 AM EDT by rightwingnut]
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Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:


I have side-folder AK in Wilson Tactical Tennis Racket case in the trunk of my car too...  Works well.

I have a rifle in every vehicle, but I DO NOT consider it a firearm that should be carried with me - on foot, if I'm bugging home in out-of-state situations.  This will vary for many of you based upon state laws, and where you are traveling.

I actually prefer an AR-15 PISTOL to any SBR or NFA weapon because I can LEGALLY carry it, loaded with a round chambered...

...YMMV, but in my opinion, NOTHING provides the versatility of an AR-15 Pistol as far as carrying legally in multiple states.  It is our primary get-home gun.
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Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
Originally Posted By Krink:
Underfolder AK w/3 mags in a very un tactical looking tennis racket case resides in my truck


I have side-folder AK in Wilson Tactical Tennis Racket case in the trunk of my car too...  Works well.

I have a rifle in every vehicle, but I DO NOT consider it a firearm that should be carried with me - on foot, if I'm bugging home in out-of-state situations.  This will vary for many of you based upon state laws, and where you are traveling.

I actually prefer an AR-15 PISTOL to any SBR or NFA weapon because I can LEGALLY carry it, loaded with a round chambered...

...YMMV, but in my opinion, NOTHING provides the versatility of an AR-15 Pistol as far as carrying legally in multiple states.  It is our primary get-home gun.


good post.  thx for your thoughts.  The only thing I can counter with is that an AR pistol is not concealable w/ a suppressor attached, not like a pistol can be anyway.  So, it comes down to whether you want firepower or discretion more once the shooting starts.  

What barrel lenght are you runnign bro?

Also, i discovered this in another thread,  a folding mechanism you can put on ANY AR15 w/o having to replace the action spring system w/ an over the barrel unit.  Caveat is that the cun will not cycle w/ the stock folded:

While I dont' like that the stock has to be extended for it to function, it does give you a legal excuse to have the receiver extension on a folding AR pistol which makes it much more stable to fire...  

$200 at law tactical.com.

Okay here are some numbers, that KPOS clam shell, w/ a glock 21 and a Osprey suppressor wold be about 18" to hte back of the unit w/o any hinge mechanism for hte folding stock.  

My 300b upper, I think 8.75" barrel,  from the crown to where that law tactical folder mechanism would end while  folded would be about18".  Add 5.5" for an attached Surefire Mini can and you get about 23.5" total.    That is doable w/ the right type of pack and would be much more useful if you had both types of ammo.  The main drawback to doing it in 5.56 is the gun would be very loud, even suppressed and in an alternative calisber, the ammo is not so common.
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 11:11:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:

Can you legally do that with a rifle?  Can you legally do that with an SBR?  No, not in a vast majority of states.
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Could you put "vast majority of states" into perspective for us? How many states outlaw the carry of loaded rifles either in a vehicle or on your person that DO allow loaded carry of a handgun on your person? Do you have a resource that easily shows which states allow/prohibit this?
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 11:57:24 AM EDT
I guess it all depends on whether you are trying to get home in a zombie infested PAW, or the real world.  
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 12:54:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:

Could you put "vast majority of states" into perspective for us? How many states outlaw the carry of loaded rifles either in a vehicle or on your person that DO allow loaded carry of a handgun on your person? Do you have a resource that easily shows which states allow/prohibit this?
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Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:

Can you legally do that with a rifle?  Can you legally do that with an SBR?  No, not in a vast majority of states.

Could you put "vast majority of states" into perspective for us? How many states outlaw the carry of loaded rifles either in a vehicle or on your person that DO allow loaded carry of a handgun on your person? Do you have a resource that easily shows which states allow/prohibit this?


probaly that site that has all the carry laws adn reciprocity info now a days, what is it, US carry.org?  

his notion sounds legit. Lots of states, even out west, don't allow a rifle in a car to be loaded, sometimes that means compltely empty, somethimes that means just the chamber is empy.  It probably has to do with poaching, rednecks shooting from cars and whatnot.   Most states, southern and western, have mad a point to explicitly make carrying a handgun in your glovebox etc legal but never did that for long guns.
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 6:54:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2014 6:58:25 PM EDT by SigOwner_P229]
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Originally Posted By rightwingnut:


probaly that site that has all the carry laws adn reciprocity info now a days, what is it, US carry.org?  

his notion sounds legit. Lots of states, even out west, don't allow a rifle in a car to be loaded, sometimes that means compltely empty, somethimes that means just the chamber is empy.  It probably has to do with poaching, rednecks shooting from cars and whatnot.   Most states, southern and western, have mad a point to explicitly make carrying a handgun in your glovebox etc legal but never did that for long guns.
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Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:

Can you legally do that with a rifle?  Can you legally do that with an SBR?  No, not in a vast majority of states.

Could you put "vast majority of states" into perspective for us? How many states outlaw the carry of loaded rifles either in a vehicle or on your person that DO allow loaded carry of a handgun on your person? Do you have a resource that easily shows which states allow/prohibit this?


probaly that site that has all the carry laws adn reciprocity info now a days, what is it, US carry.org?  

his notion sounds legit. Lots of states, even out west, don't allow a rifle in a car to be loaded, sometimes that means compltely empty, somethimes that means just the chamber is empy.  It probably has to do with poaching, rednecks shooting from cars and whatnot.   Most states, southern and western, have mad a point to explicitly make carrying a handgun in your glovebox etc legal but never did that for long guns.

All the carry websites I checked (I checked all the popular ones to be sure) didn't mention anything about carrying long-guns.

Just wondering his source for that info. I realize some states ban it, but Indiana, Kentucky, and Michigan* don't ban it so his description of "vast majority" may just be his opinion based upon his locality. He is from MN, maybe all the states around him ban it. But in MY AO, my state, and half the states around me allow it. So I was just looking to fact-check his opinion. Either way, MOST states allow the carry of a loaded rifle outside of a car and this discussion isn't necessarily 100% focused on car carry. It is focused on get-home guns. My first choice for defensive firearm while still inside the vehicle isn't always going to be the rifle so is the matter of carrying loaded rifles in a vehicle really relevant? That's for you to decide... None-the-less, many states that ban "loaded rifle carry" in a car don't consider a loaded magazine to be a "loaded rifle", so your rifle is one quick magazine "slap" away from being loaded. I doubt you are carrying a rifle un-cased sitting on your lap anyways. If you have to un-case it etc loading it doesn't add much time (assuming you're allowed to have a loaded magazine).

*Michigan bans carry of a loaded rifle but not a handgun. Most rifles with a folding stock and probably all SBRs rifles as I described qualify as a handgun in MI so are permitted to be loaded in a car.
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 7:19:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:


You do what works for you.  I'll do what works for me.  Deal?

-Emt1581
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Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By JCHammer:

Uhmmm, Having the rifle in the guitar case allows one to have a rifle with them IF the SHTF. I think a persons chances of slipping out of a building or backdoor or window with a soft sided guitar case are a hell of a lot better than slipping out of a bad situation trying to OC an AR15...  Also if you did get cornered by a individual or 2 individuals you still have options as to how to proceed from there(which would be totally up to you and the scenario) ...after all we don't know when the situation will present itself but I will say this.. I like my chances better, starting with a rifle than without. It may become a liability out in the open but something that enabled me to shoot free initially dump and rely on my EDC. IMHO


You do what works for you.  I'll do what works for me.  Deal?

-Emt1581

Heck Yea its a deal... If something has worked for the last 14 years, why try to fix it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 7:34:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JCHammer:

Heck Yea its a deal... If something has worked for the last 14 years, why try to fix it.
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Originally Posted By JCHammer:
Originally Posted By Emt1581:
Originally Posted By JCHammer:

Uhmmm, Having the rifle in the guitar case allows one to have a rifle with them IF the SHTF. I think a persons chances of slipping out of a building or backdoor or window with a soft sided guitar case are a hell of a lot better than slipping out of a bad situation trying to OC an AR15...  Also if you did get cornered by a individual or 2 individuals you still have options as to how to proceed from there(which would be totally up to you and the scenario) ...after all we don't know when the situation will present itself but I will say this.. I like my chances better, starting with a rifle than without. It may become a liability out in the open but something that enabled me to shoot free initially dump and rely on my EDC. IMHO


You do what works for you.  I'll do what works for me.  Deal?

-Emt1581

Heck Yea its a deal... If something has worked for the last 14 years, why try to fix it.


Wait....14 years?  What situations/SHTF's have you used this setup in?

Personally my rifle resides (ready to fire) in a Doppleduffel in my vehicle. Can be carried at my side, over my shoulder, or on my back as the bag transforms from a duffel to a backpack.  So aside from the outline of the case, I suppose the transport methods we are choosing aren't that different.

However, I've only ever carried mine in and out of buildings...never during any true SHTF's.

-Emt1581
Link Posted: 1/16/2014 8:37:28 PM EDT
For me its a pistol.
My carry gun and a spare mag+ the mag that's in the bag in my truck if I am so fortunate to get to.
Its obviously easily concealed and accessible.

Besides if I need a rifle there will be enough guys with guitar cases, tennis racquets and covert bags that I'll just see if I can't borrow theirs.
Link Posted: 1/17/2014 2:31:46 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By bikedamon:
I use a folding chair bag all the time to put AKs in.  Never a second look from others.
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that is a damn good idea, thanks.
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