You're missing something here. The markets don't run on facts or logic, they run on hope and perception. If you want to see the markets rise, on nothing more than wishful thinking, just look over the last two months. Watch tomorrow or the next day, when some report comes out less negative than expected, still negative but not as bad as feared, and watch the market spike on nothing more than wishful thinking.

There is a HUGE base of infrastructure here in America, 250 years worth, 2000 miles tall and 3000 miles wide. It CAN, and probably WILL continue to clank along in decline, withOUT a major crash or massive dislocations of our way of life.

Betting ALL your marbles on a crash is just as dangerous as betting all your marbles on no crash occurring.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst, take whatever comes and make a profit in the process.

Insure dirt for liability only. Otherwise you give them an excuse to take it all away from you.

Anything you raise on that dirt, crops, buildings, etc. insure for replacement value.

They can't take what they can't find.

But like anything else, you can take this approach too far.

Unless you have a crystal ball, you don;t know when the decline will take place.

This much debt insures a decline, perhaps a crash.

But the crash will come only when the masses BELIEVE it is at hand. Until then we will clank along on infrastructure already in place, and on declining revenues, making adjustments, and ignoring what cannot be changed.

Unless you can predict when the herd will stampede, you best prep for both success and for failure. The crash may be decades off yet.

Pulling all your assets out of the system doesn't necessarily mean you will survive and it definitely means you cannot participate anymore. Bury cash and gold, buy tillable acreage in an assumed name, you won;t even keep up with inflation, and losing is losing.

Diversify, hope for the best, be prepared for the best, and plan for the worst, meaning be prepared for BOTH. Hide some, and keep some in the system. It's the only safe way.

My point exactly, most people in our cosmopolitan society don't even own basic tools to sustain themselves.  Right now the propaganda machine is keeping everyone "grazing" peacefully.  If, however, the Soma wears off, the resulting stampede could be ugly.  To quote Agent K: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

The auction for $35 billion of three year notes is done, interest rate 1-7/8%, which is half a percent higher than last month.

Losing the farm, literally.  Forced liquidation of assets to pay that debt.

I have zero problem seeing another "banking crisis" developing as a result of mass defaults on unsecured debt (credit cards).  I also have zero problem seeing some sort of legislation retroactively collateralizing your assets to secure that debt.  Contract and bankruptcy law is currently experiencing some Interesting Times; I try not to think about how much more Interesting it would get in a no-shit meltdown.  Sidestepping the problem by not playing seems to make more sense.  YMMV.

At the very least, if one defaults on sizeable credit debt...

I foresee the "courts" rubber-stamping the paperwork for asset seizure (ie the "stuff" you bought with said credit lines - with a large margin for... interpretation); as well as income garnishing, and in extreme cases perhaps repossession of all tangiable assets.

Barry goes to show that it's a fine line between following the law and having those in power change (or simply ignore) the law to suit their whims.   And in ____ vs the US Government, the US Government will always win.

Correct about the gold.
Do people really think that after a bad crash we won't need money?  Do people really think financial obligations will just go away?  That taxes will just go away?

Don't bet on it.

My rule of thumb for right now is that I want at least enough gold to pay three years worth of real estate taxes, school district taxes, county taxes.  My gold is my insurance policy that I can keep my house at least long enough to allow for a "non-distressed and orderly" sale if it comes to that.

Gold is a universal currency.  It's traded internationally, it will always have a market somewhere in the world and there will always be someone in business to trade it for whatever "local currency" one needs, be that dollars, dinars, .223 ammo; whatever.  It's been that way for over four thousand years.

I think *you* missed the point.   As Ford guy suggested, if the S hits the Fan, you want some meet on the hoof (i.e. a cow or two, maybe some pigs, and few chicken - all doable in the size lot you have).   But iif you think buying a tractor is complicated, raising livestock is going to make you cry - there is a lot to it.   So better start now.  

here read it again.

But I really like this dirt

Nope, your take is exactly what I got from it the first time.

Not gonna raise cows today. Ditto pigs rabbits chickens etc. County is 18 miles tall and 30 miles wide and its all corn and soybeans and cows.This county probably feeds at least 50 counties worldwide and if anything crashes, 90% of what grows here won't be trucked to Maine or shipped to Russia or even leave the county.

There will be a massive food surplus and a massive surplus, locally, of people who are generations deep masters at growing food.

There will be a MASSIVE demand for cheap energy, which I plan to supply.

Seems to me that a guy who sees a crash coming ought to take a look around himself and see what's as common as dirt, and what's in short supply, and position himself to fill the greatest need.

Others may see it differently...you pays your money and you takes your chances.

There's a year's worth of canned food stored here, for four, and only a ten percent chance that more than one will be living here after any crash...that's between 2 and 4 years food for me, or put differently, 2 to 4 years to either raise my own well enough to avoid starvation, or find enough competent farmers willing to trade corn, beefsteak and bacon, for USDA grade A prime, 60 cycle, 220 volt, alternating current. About 30 megawatts if my calculations are correct, and if they are as conservative as usual, quite a bit more.

If not, not.

Nobody lives forever.

This is the best comment I have seen in this thread. Pay PARTICULAR attention to the part about Japan's and Germany reconstruction.

I am not an RIA, but I do manage money in several trustee accounts, and I lost a considerable amount of money, while way outperforming the market over the past 18 months or so. A small consolation at the end of the day. I have ridden the bounce back to this point and have traded in and out of positions quite actively. However, this seems to me to be time to get out. I have also traded the ETF "TBT", which is essentially a bet against long bond prices. I won't tell anyone else what they should do, but was in the bond market for many years in Wall St. and feel comfortable trading in that market. I got out of CA about a year ago and downsized to a remote section of CO, where my expenses are nil. While I may differ with the author on several details, his overarching premise is spot on in my opinion.

I strongly agree with his opinion about gold and other metals.

You're a man after my own heart!

Without giving away any technical details.....what would be your resource?  Are you working with renewables/green resources?  Cold Fusion?  Oil?

Ford,

There is some type of auction every week. 3 and 6 month bills are auctioned to settle every Thursday. Every 4 weeks is a year bill auction. Every month sees a 2 year note auction, to mature the last day of the month. Additionally, there is a quarterly refunding every 3 months (Feb., May, Aug. and Nov.). The composition will vary but will usually consist of a short (3 year-ish), medium (7-10 year-ish) and a long (30 year) maturity. However, that schedule is now in the process of being changed. For example, today was the first day of an unscheduled refunding, with the 3 year being auctioned today, the 10 year tomorrow and the 30 year on Thursday.

I find Bloomberg.com to be a good source of bond data and auction information.
YMMV

Does anyone know how many layers of tin-foil I need to protect (my head) against chunks of falling sky?

Thanks all.

The other wild card with today's situation is the disturbing habit of the government to change the fundamental ground rules in mid-course....like the Chrysler secured bond holders getting shafted.... which, if allowed to stand by SCOTUS will fundamentally change the rules for ALL bond holders....

Given this precedent, what's the chance that the bankrupt county, state and federal government WON'T hike taxes on all homeowners who own their homes outright in order to 'make it fair' for those who are underwater? After the UAW made out like bandits because there were simply MORE voters among them than among the bond holders, what could we expect the hue and cry of the tens of millions of 'homeowners' who are underwater to be like?

IOW, those who play by the rules, pay off all their debt, and then live free and clear without mortgages, might end up being taxed as 'the evil rich' to pay for the majority who still are in debt like the good little consumers we're told to be.

So on top of paying off debt, it might behoove the smart ones to also have a 'plan b' of simply loading the 5th wheel and rolling off into the sunset to points unknown....

Because it most likely will not go straight to Mad Max, it will be a slower event.  If you are in debt and out of money, you are going to be in a really bad situation.  Just because you are planning on paying back your debt with inflated dollars, you are making an assumption that you will still be employed.  Also, if you do have debt and a substantial savings, why pay the interest on the debt and earn little to nothing on the savings.  Paying off a debt at 18% is strangely like saving 18% per month.

Lots of solid posts in this thread. Thought I'd share an article that says we're in worse shape than Russia was when it collapsed. It outlines basic points regarding transportation and housing. I think it's a good read.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259

Don't put away your guns too quick Tomato Thrower. I think you over-estimate the current American psyche. These aren't the days where people know how to take one for team in the name of the greater good. We shall see - I'd say by the end of 2011 it'll be really bad out there. Probably much sooner though.

Again, another misconception of what is actually happening here.  Wages are not going up, productivity is going up.  You can only service debt in an inflationary economy if your wages go up, if they stay flat and the cost of everything else goes up you are seriously screwed.

We saw a bit of this back when gasoline spiked up to $4.20 per gallon.  I don't know of anyone that got a raise because gasoline went up either.

I have zero debt and have been thinking the same thing. All levels of govt will be taking from those that have paid for assets to keep itself going and the local govts will be raising taxes/fees on those that are debt free. Owning your property debt free just means you have less choices, not more. Those with high debt will just mail in the house keys and walk away with as much unsecured property as possible knowing that in a major economic failure they will get lost in the crowd. Many are doing this right now,imagine how wide spread it will be in severe economic times!

I worry a lot about what the govt  calls "fair" and have spread my 60 yr asset accumulations in many directions and forms. I can easily picture a time when any money over the FDIC limits will be considered to much and taken to be "fair" to the many have nots.

Being allowed to keep what is yours in a severe SHTF situation is a real problem. Having guns, food & equipment stashed will give you an edge on the hungry hordes but govt will only need a scribble on a piece of paper to take it all.

Red

Stalin had a theory of human behavior such that the more people you implicate in murder, the LESS likely the threat that they will turn on the ones ordering the mayhem because, well, they'd all implicate themselves in the process! In a perverse way, I think this is similar to what TPTB cooked up for the economy: rather than let the bankrupt fail and get blown to smithereens, they're spreading the pain to EVERYONE so that we're all sitting on the powder keg, all have 'skin in the game' and hence no one will go to jail when all is said and done...we'll all be too busy scrambling.

Hyperinflation really isn't possible without a rise in wages.

Inflation isn't a supply and demand thing, it's a monetary value thing.  If everything in a grocery store became more expensive, basic economics would suggest that the gap would get filled by some previously low wage teacher or something who decides to go into the stuffing mix manufacturing business, or the stuffing mix manufacturing device manufacturing business, or whatever.

It's not like there's a little monkey out there who can push a button and make everything in the world more expensive except for the people who do the producing and consuming.

I understand what you are saying and in a pure economic sense I agree.

It is like the economy we are seeing now is outside the bounds of the normal economic models so things are happening and the analysts are sitting back and watching and saying "Whoa, wasn't expecting that...Hey look the DOW is up PARTY..."  This makes it very dangerous because everyone is focusing on the upside indicators and not really understanding the downsides.

What I am seeing is a rise in the cost of goods without a rise in wages.  Things (mostly food) seem to cost the same as they did a few years ago but they packaging is much smaller now.  So as these costs rise and wages don't what do we do?  I don't know that we are going into a hyper inflationary event, it looks a lot more like stagflation with a touch of chaos thrown in.

So, is that good?

Unfortunately, your hypothesis only holds for a closed economy. In a global economy such as today, "cheap" dollars are not only acquired by workers; they are acquired by entities and individuals the world over who hold or are the recipients of dollars by way of any of a number of possible transactions. This includes trading one currency for another. Therefore, when holders of a strong currency exchange them for another weaker currency, they receive more of that currency and thus, more buying power in that currency with which to accelerate price inflation in that currency.

There need be any short, or even medium, term effect on salaries in that currency.

get a 25 hp kubota, used can be affordable, and get a 48 inch 3 point hitch rototiller.  That is not really a complete answer, since there should be primary tillage by some form of plow, maybe 2 bottom plow - a 25 hp tractor wont pull much of a plow in new ground (but of course the old 8n is around 27 hp and it produced food for americans during the 40s and 50s)

I guess my whole reason for getting upset is people wait until they need to farm, to start to farm.  It doesn't work that way.  You cant just spend 30 minutes online and go be a farmer, in other words.  not that you suggested that, I'm just saying.  

So you can cast aspersions at my response, but I'd recommend you take what I said as an indicator that you are FAR behind where you should be.  Many of us LAST year in this forum cautioned to start your garden now.  Many cried "tin foil."  so be it.

You're right, they cried "Tin Foil" about the market collapse, they cried "Tin Foil" about the economic collapse, and  some of them will likely cry "Tin Foil" until things collapse around them.

Human nature never seems to change.

The US government had to pay a higher interest rate to bondholders to sell the bonds.  Interest rates increase as investors and/or lenders perceive increased risk with a loan.

So, the rate increase is good if you're a bondholder since you'll make more money on the loan.  It's not so good if you're a taxpayer since you'll be paying more interest on the loan.

then as a history buff you must have slept through history.

Japan and Germany only recovered because there was a United States to rebuild their country. otherwise they would have gone the way of South Africa.

and yes lots of people starved to death or malnutrition.

and while I don't buy into all the fear (meant to sell or get ratings) I do know that in 10 years America will look like nothing that it does today (for the worse)

The only differences now are.

1. N Korea testing nukes.
2. Iran testing nukes.
3. Marxist/socialist Congress/President.
4. 100 million Islamic Fundamentalist that seek our destruction, no one knows how many are already here.
5. Severely reduced standing Military, with 160,000 are already engaged.
6. Russia &China are not our friends.
7. Projected 56 Trillion dollars in debt.  
8. Severe loss of Manufacturing.
9. People would rather sit on their fat asses receive a welfare check instead of working sweating for the same amount.    
10. In our past we didn't riot when the NBA, or the college football team won a championship.  Burning down the town.
11. We didn't riot and loot because the power went out.
12. We didn't sit and wait for someone to give us a bottle of water.
13. We didn't have gangs running the streets at will, controlling entire parts of cities.

I could add another 15 or so.   It is not my intention to run our beautiful country down, but to point out because of corrupt politicians,
weasels, many of these problems have been created and amplified.    I am a firm believer in teaching a person to fish to support themselves
instead of doing the fishing for them cleaning and cooking it and serving it to them.

As could I. However, one point that I think is entirely too overlooked is the situation in Pakistan. With that addition, I agree with you completely.

FDIC...  Glad you brought that up, J.  

They have, what, 50B right now?  With a Congressionally approved 100B line of credit for more.

What happens if/when the bond market auctions begin to fail and more banks fail?  If they can't sell bonds to cover those losses, you're shit out of luck on FDIC.

How times change.  I used to live by the old, "Don't have more in the market than you can afford to lose."

Today, it's "do not have more in the bank than you can afford to lose."

John

There's a lot of conflicting opinions of what may happen.

Here's my short take and why:

1.  I don't look for hyperinflation for several reasons:  

*  Wages have to index for it to happen.  Wages aren't going up.
*  Inflation would hurt the bankers.  Frankly, while I won't say the bankers are running the show right now, they are certainly being taken care of well...  to the point of swindling Congress out of hundreds of billions + even more from unilateral and IMHO illegal moves by the Fed for hundreds of billions more.  Obama will not do anything to hurt the banks or the unions it seems.
*  So many signs are pointing to deflation taking hold, not inflation.


2.  It's probably not going to be as bad as Denninger predicts:

*  It never is.
*  Sensationalism sells.
*  Who knows though...  we're in uncharted territory here.


3.  We've got about 2/3rds of the pain left to go before the market is once again neutral or unwound.  I'm only down 30% (!!) on my what's now a 201k and my home value is only off by about 15% from highs three plus years ago.  I don't "feel" that yet.  I do feel the 15+% decline in income, however.  But it doesn't 'hurt' yet.  Until it hurts, Americans aren't really going to take action that Congress can't ignore.


4.  It's prudent to hope for the best but plan for the worst.  Denninger has some outstanding posts and with few exceptions, calls things right.  He's frustrated as to why Americans aren't taking action:  It's because it is still abstract for 99% of Americans and I wonder if half the population even has the cognitive ability to understand all the bad things happening.

John

ETA:  Here's what I worry about most lately...

*  Bond market auctions begin to fail.   Welfare as we know it will be first to go, then drastic cuts in discretionary spending, then social security then who knows.  If / when welfare is curtailed, the natives will get restless –– mostly in big cities.  Where I live would be right on the cusp of limited rioting / unrest.  If you live within 15 miles of downtown Chicago, you may find your city block on fire after it's been looted and pillaged by some rather angry savages who feel entitled to your shit because Uncle Sugar cut off their monthly money.  

Bad things won't happen instantly, but it will get ugly.  This could happen even if there are no failures, but interest rates double from the current rates...  that will be hundreds of billions more spent on "servicing the debt" and cause increased "need" for bond market sales which will increase interest rates and on and on in a vicious circle, leading to the same result.

*  Terrorist attack in the US...  specifically in schools / hospitals and / or possibly malls.  This will hit the economy as people stay home and/or keep their kids home with them.  Economically, it will be a big hit as you can't run an economy when a lot of the producers stay at home.

the true wild card is the American people's individual ability to handle crisis.  Given that most people cannot distinguish between difficulty, crisis, and capacity, I have little faith in most people's ability to cope (members of this forum excluded, of course).

$50B last I heard, but a fair sized bank failed in Florida since then. Haven't heard if FDIC had to pay out on that one, it may not be decided yet, though usually 2 days to 2 weeks has funds in depositor's hands if needed.

FDIC will pro-rate, and the .gov will print like hell in the case of a wave of failures. "Pro-rate" as in liberals get 50%, conservatives get the shaft, per the Chrysler and GM settlements.

I don't see a wave of failures...not right this second. That could change by noon.

When I do, I will alter my stance. For now, I keep 10% out of the system, 70-80% in the system in cash, and about 10-15% invested. About a third of the invested dollars are in S&P 500 Put ETFs, in other words, selling the S&P short,  one step removed from an actual short position, which can be an expensive hassle to maintain.

If a wave of bank failures looms, I will be dumping my last few investments, except the shorts, moving physical cash out of accounts, splitting it evenly between safe deposit boxes and other secure storage, and making large purchases in precious metals, really the ONLY way to move substantial funds out of the system quickly. I'm looking into a mix of foreign currency, physically held, now.

FDIC is  a bandaid, not a tourniquet.

Not crying tin foil.

Just not going into panic mode yet, where I drop the timetable long established, and start making desperate moves that will not work very well in my infrastructure.

I've got a team of 5 brokers advising me, Merrill, Chase, Uvest, Fidelity and Smith. At least half the time I am more dialed into market news than they are, bringing items to their attention they might not catch for another hour or even a day.

A bond market crash COULD happen TODAY. An undetected asteroid could hit earth TODAY too, but the odds are low and in my informed opinion, a bond crash today is about as unlikely as an asteroid impact today.

Why?

Because in every case, bad news in the bond markets this year have driven equities UP, including the day the Fed announced quant easing.

There is wiggle room in the system and the powers that be are manipulating that wiggle room successfully, for now.

A tractor and cows today will sit out in the rain, and in the two inch hail we took last week. They won't like that much.

A tractor and cows in September can sit inside a brand new 30x65 foot pole barn I designed to stand for 200 years.

I've already lost this season. My sharecropper has his seeds in and WILL SUE ME if I take the land back to grow my own this season.

I have ZERO risk of starvation this year, next year or in 2011.

Those are the high points, there are many more supporting the decisions I've made. One size solutions do not always fit everyone the same.

I say that the bond market meltdown will not take place for at least 2 to 5 months. All my brokers agree.

I say any bank meltdown resulting from a bond market crash is further out yet.

I say the time is NOT here to abandon common sense and make panic or desperation decisions that I cannot support and sustain yet.

If I'm wrong, in three years I'll have less food stockpiled than if I dropped all planning and went to panic mode now. Not zero, just less.

I'm taking that gamble with my eyes fully open, and I don';t see it as a big gamble.

If I "win" the gamble, my payoff includes the following:

1. Machine shop.

2. High quality storage for farm equipment, including tractors, and livestock, instead of none at all.

3. Chemical, plastics, and electronics labs.

4. The ability to fine tune and field a 30 Mw power station that requires zero fuel. Repeat, zero fuel.

5. An increase in available storage space for SHTF supplies, in addition to what's listed above. An increase in storage space from the nooks and crannies in a very crowded 1500 foot residence, to an additional 1000 feet of dedicated storage ONLY, over and above floor space allocated in this list. That's a 100X increase.

Okay, I've already mentioned most of this, and you weren't impressed.

Fine, let's have a gentlemen's bet.

Come September when my shell is up and dried in, and there's been no bind crash or wave of bank failures, if there's still food in the grocery stores, and plenty of grocery stores still around, you admit I gambled smart.

Come September and the stores are closed, and I'm eating into my stockpiled supplies, I admit that right now WAS the time to panic.

Neither of us is changing the other's mind today, but the facts will be clear by the time the outbuilding is shelled in.

Given that I'm going to continue on the path planned for more than 20 years, my biggest obstacle TODAY is that my Deere  tractor just left for the service shop on a trailer for the THIRD TIME this spring and the grass where I am scehdule to begin dumping gravel for an access road NEXT week is ONE FOOT HIGH.

I let half an acre of this land go one summer just to see what happened. By the end of August, there were TREES, one inch in diameter and 14 FEET high. This land has been farmed and fine tuned for more than 100 years and it grows stuff real well and real FAST.

That's where my head is today.

And NONE of this obviates my original point. The tractor purchase was just for illustration. I can buy 4 Deere's today, the biggest guys  made, with video players and computer control, for cash, and not be tapped and yes, I have priced them recently. Whether or not to buy a tractor was never the point. The tractor was just an example.

The point made was that large purchases, after any potential crash, may go through with cash, may require gold, and may require bullets or guns.  None of this side discussion has any effect on that point. Regardless of what you buy, anything you need that you do not have TODAY may NOT be available tomorrow for sale for paper money. Or gold. Or bullets.

The more diverse your assets are today, the more flexible your future spending power is.

This is the spot where you're wrong.

I don't plan on putting them away (metaphorically at least) but I think the liklihood of there being a Mad Max type outcome is very small.  I do believe there can be disruptions, a big spike in crime, etc. but I don't think we're going feral.  Given the history of the human race, there aren't any cases I've studied of mass, SUSTAINED, panic.  People are resourceful and generally want to avoid confrontation; even criminals will almost ALWAYS target the weak and defenseless.  Things may reset to a new norm, and during this time it could be bad, but they will surely reset.



Mind you, and keeping with good prepping, you need to prepare for short periods of intense lawlessness.  When economies go through massive dislocations there could be periods of MONTHS when things are crazy.  Outright shooting/mobs in the streets?  Possible, although not likely on a large scale, as mobs really can't organize themselves and operate in a coherent manner.  They'll just as easily kill each other.



The best guide for the future is the past.  If you look at Argentina, Russia, and Japan, all experienceing various levels of dislocation, you won't find mass sustained panic and a complete breakdown of order.  Russia and Argentina have experienced particularly acute economic and structural problems, probably a worst case scenario for us; I personally think we'll end up more like Japan.  In all of these cases the system still worked, although at new norms.



What does all this mean?  Continue to prep as always.  I've put in a big garden that is just now starting to produce (eating lettuce like a rabbit, my Early Girl tomatoes should be ready in another couple weeks), planted 5 apple trees and 2 cherry trees.  Continuing to stock up on cheap canned goods and bulk rice/beans.  Me and the boys can shoot a flea off a flies ass at 100 meters.  Planning on helping out my neighbors, friends, and family as much as possible if we do have short term SHTF.

Really?  Can you cite the mass starvations in German and Japan?  People did go HUNGRY, as they did in the Great Depression, but mass starvations (100k's...), no.



Germany and Japan would've recovered on their own (Germany recovered after WWI on its own despite massive reparations and massive political/economic dislocations), it just would've taken longer.  We helped them out for POLITICAL reasons; that is, to win hearts and minds and curtain Soviet expansionism.  But of course you knew this...



I suggest you brush up on that history chief.

Jeffers, I didn't say anything about cows.  Nor would I recommend it for someone who is starting out.  IWhat are you going to feed them?  You don't even grow human food for yourself and your grass is 2 acres of lawn type grass, so that would be a very bad idea.

so buying tractor/tillage and gardening is panic mode? "desperate moves" ?  unsure of what you mean here...  A lot of folks who grow food would find that offensive, but again, I am unsure of your intent to will wait for clarification before being too judgmental.

"I have ZERO risk of starvation this year, next year or in 2011. "  

OK.  

"I can buy 4 Deere's today, the biggest guys made, with video players and computer control, for cash, and not be tapped and yes, I have priced them recently. "

Awesome!

sounds like you should be here giving your survival advice. All your questions are answered and you got this thing licked.  For now, i'll continue working on an old fashioned simple lifestyle that involves me producing more than I consume.  Good luck.

Sorry, that was my fault...   I read into your 'Zero Turn MOwer!'  comment.  

 I thought it was a great reference to a 4 legged grass cutter.  

4. The ability to fine tune and field a 30 Mw power station that requires zero fuel. Repeat, zero fuel.

Your going to generate 30 Mw of power with zero fuel consumption?  You mention you only have two acres, but you're going to
put a 30 Mw power plant that uses 0 fuel on it.  That can't be wind or solar, because you don't have enough acreage to support that.

Good luck getting a license to start production or hooking into the grid to sell all that USDA prime 60 HZ 220 to the farmers around you.

Sorry, but I'm sceptical of that plan.

I am skeptical of the generator plans also, but I am going to be polite, and say nothing.  First, because I am uneducated in what he is discussing, and second, because it is not something that I think is a wise idea to count on being available in the future.  The third reason is because a discussion on this is going to take this topic off track.

I think that is relevant to evaluating the information contained in his posts.

Gotta love those Nazi's

karl is NOT a chicken little.

He mocked many people up till about 6 months ago and would not allow talk of prepping/survival, etc on the board calling it "tin foil".

Oh,and he CORRECTLY called the tech stock bust in 2000. He saw what was happening and sold his business at the top, or near it.

And he correctly called this last bust.



GR

I agree and don't see any Mad Max type scenario. I do see a significant rise in crime and isolated riots/civil unrest. That's my predominant reason for saying we'll need our guns. It's not what you have, but what you can keep. There will be those that try to take it.

Right on for planning to help some people if you live in a rural area. I think this point is lost on a lot of people that plan to lone wolf it. The people that will fare the best, are the ones living in rural communities helping each other out. IMO, it'll take the pooling of assets and knowledge to make it through.