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Posted: 1/9/2020 1:30:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Others will be along shortly to give their $.02 I'm sure. If your shots will be under 400m and you train and use an AR15, I'd recommend 6.5 Grendel. Build yourself (or assemble) an upper, buy a mag, add glass and slay away.
I've killed elk with 123gr Hornady SST I bought from SG Ammo.All my shots were under 100m. I'm comfortable hunting whitetail with 5.56 though. I'd hunt elk with 5.56 if the king would let me. Training, proper ammo, and shot placement will trump caliber and velocity all day airday |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 1:51:14 PM EDT
[#2]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/_270_vs_6_5_Grendel/121-662165/
An older thread with a lot of info... Personally, to me 6.5 grendel vs. .270 is an apples to bananas comparison. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 2:20:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Why are you narrowing it to those 2? (Comparing those specific calibers is like asking about 22lr vs 30-30)
How old are the grandkids? What do they usually shoot? Are you leaning towards bolt or semi rifle? Are they going to be sitting in a blind or stalking/ walking much? I think 243 is a great starting caliber. It's extremely capable of taking game and doesn't offer a great deal of recoil. The shorter action is also good for younger people or those not too dexterous. Also, you really can't outgrow a 243. Personally, unless I'm using someone else's rifle, I always use a 270Win, for anything deer and larger (204 usually for 'yotes). Have since I was a teen. Not because I think it's the tits, but because I'm comfortable w/ my rifle, the loads, ballistics, etc. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 3:09:50 PM EDT
[#4]
A composite of those two cartridges would be a 6.8 Rem Spec 2 which uses .277 bullets in the 85-130 grain range.
Grendel sized case with a .277 bullet with similar erformance to the Grendel, or .270 light if you will. In an AR the 6.8 has more bolt head metal around the casehead, the Grendel in my option hogs out too much on the bolt face. Moot if you are talking about a bolt gun. A 64, 65, or 75 grain .223 is mild and capable. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I've been hunting with a 30-06. In MO we seldom have a 200 yard or longer shot at a deer. I'd say typically it is 50-120 yrds. Longest shot I've had is 170 yrds and I don't hunt that property any more. I also want to get my grand-kids into hunting. So with reduced distance needs and recoil in mind I've kind of settled on these two calibers. I know .243 is out there as well but I want a bit more grain than it typically is loaded. Ballistics and bullet weight, I believe the .270 is bit better. I've never shot either one. What are they like to shoot compared to each other? To a 30-06? Which would have more comfortable recoil for a young hunter? I don't know much so also tell me all the things I didn't know to mention or ask. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 3:22:38 PM EDT
[#6]
At short range, I don’t suspect anyone (including the deer) will ever know the difference. The .270 will likely have more recoil (depending on kids’ sizes/ages could be an issue). 6.5G out of a 16” barrel has more recoil than .223 but less than .308.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 3:39:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are you narrowing it to those 2? (Comparing those specific calibers is like asking about 22lr vs 30-30) How old are the grandkids? What do they usually shoot? Are you leaning towards bolt or semi rifle? Are they going to be sitting in a blind or stalking/ walking much? I think 243 is a great starting caliber. It's extremely capable of taking game and doesn't offer a great deal of recoil. The shorter action is also good for younger people or those not too dexterous. Also, you really can't outgrow a 243. Personally, unless I'm using someone else's rifle, I always use a 270Win, for anything deer and larger (204 usually for 'yotes). Have since I was a teen. Not because I think it's the tits, but because I'm comfortable w/ my rifle, the loads, ballistics, etc. Ballistic characteristics No grandkid shooters yet, they're all under 4 Bolt action for them Blind |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 3:49:00 PM EDT
[#8]
For your application the 7mm-08 sounds perfect.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 4:10:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I started both my kids on Savage Rascals. They were both around 3.
My son is going to be 6 and he is very proficient with the rifle, in terms of: handling, loading, unloading, firing, and safety. His sighting skills are being worked on. The rifles are ~$150 and a great value. Even I have fun shooting it. From there, they can always borrow an adult 22 or move them to a regular bolt one of their own. For the hunting, I stand by the recommendation of 243. They'll never grow out of it, it can take decent game, and it offers mild recoil. It should be easy to find a lightly used rifle, chambered for 243, in almost any gun store you walk into. You have some years, so plenty of time window shopping 
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Posted: 1/9/2020 4:19:39 PM EDT
[#10]
.270 is like a flatter shooting 30-06 full sized, big recoil for a kid
6.5 grendel is an intermediate cartridge, small enough to fit in an AR15 6.5G is plenty for deer in the missouri woods |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 4:20:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Why not a 25-06 then?
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Posted: 1/9/2020 4:21:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I started hunting around ten years old. I hunted with a Husqvarna in 270 Win. Recoil was not an issue on an 8.5 lb rifle. Still using that same gun to this day. I'm a fan of old school proven performance hence why I love the 270. I have been using the Nosler 140 grain Partition bullets exclusively for over 30 years. One Elk, two pronghorns, and a bunch of deer and hogs later, I'm still happy with it. You'll find ammo for it at every Bubba's and Boudreaux's bait and beer shop out in the boonies.
That being said, I'm also a big fan of the 7x57, 7mm-08, 257 Roberts, to name just a few of the intermediate cartridges. All mild and accurate shooting rounds. If it's going into an AR style gun, then 6.5, 277 Wlv/6.8 SPC ll would be my choice. If a bolt action gun, 270Win or 7mm-08. jmtcw and ymmv. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 4:34:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Similar to what Derek just said. These are two very different class rounds. A 6.5Grendel is a small sized rifle round (not even medium) and fits in the small-rifle-round hosting AR15 sized platform. Indeed, that was the design spec. .270 is based on 30-06 and is at the high end of a medium sized round. It won't even fit in an AR10, which is designed for the Medium sized .308 class rounds. .270 has nearly double the powder charge of a Grendel - that's a whole other class of round.
I will say, I consider the Grendel an exceptional round, that has some of the highest efficiency and density of effective-power you can find. As one person put it, it hits like a 7.62x39 does at short range, and like a .308 does at long range. In a package small enough to fit in a standard sized AR15. That's pretty impressive. If you had to do it all with one round, the 6.5 Grendel is that one round. But if your intended spec is longer range, in a utility where an AR15 platform performance, weight, and size aren't a priory, then .270 is always going to outshoot it for both power and distance. At the trade-off that the .270 is a long-bolt action rifle, with notable recoil and limited capacity. Personally, I've never seen the point of 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action. The entire design purpose is to fit in a small AR15. Once you switch to bolt action, it doesn't really matter anymore, and a longer bolt throw isn't a big deal, so might as well go up to 6.5 Creedmoor medium frame action at that point, or to the even longer bolt-throw 30-06 action; if it's just going to be a bolt-action anyway. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 6:05:32 PM EDT
[#14]
My neighbor has a 10 year old grandson, he's getting the youngster into hunting, deer and elk. He has a .243, and .270, when the 10 year old fired both, he chose the .243. The recoil from the .270 was a bit much for him.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 6:23:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For your application the 7mm-08 sounds perfect. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 7:09:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Just purely on your caliber requests, I would choose 6.5 (or 6.8, or 300BLK) over 270WIN for younger children, based on the game and distances you are shooting.
I used to shoot .270 for deer, but the past 3 years have been 6.5G or 6.8 SPC (I use both, even have 300BLK & 7.62x39 as well). I don't even take my .270 anymore. Now, upon further reading and you want to stay in a bolt vs. AR platform, I would choose 7mm-08, .243, .257Roberts over the .270. You could of course get one of the 3. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 7:47:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/_270_vs_6_5_Grendel/121-662165/ An older thread with a lot of info... Personally, to me 6.5 grendel vs. .270 is an apples to bananas comparison. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 7:57:24 PM EDT
[#18]
One additional factor- if you’re taking young kids hunting, they may not be big enough to get a good sight picture or see through the scope. An AR-type rifle with an adjustable stock can adjust length of pull for smaller shooters. Advantage 6.5G.
I loaned an AR to a relative for this very reason. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 9:27:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.270 is like a flatter shooting 30-06 full sized, big recoil for a kid 6.5 grendel is an intermediate cartridge, small enough to fit in an AR15 6.5G is plenty for deer in the missouri woods 6.5 Grendel gets my vote. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 10:33:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Came to post this. I have two Grendel ARs and recently added a howa mini action in 6.5 Grendel. I haven’t shot a deer myself in several years but my daughters have been slaying them with my Grendel ARs. I bought the howa for me since they were using my ARs. I tried the Ruger predator in 6.5 Grendel but I just didn’t like it. The howa is much nicer and smaller. 6.5 Grendel gets my vote. Is the Ruger predator the same thing as the Ruger American? If so, what about it didn't you like? Thanks |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 4:46:14 PM EDT
[#21]
If you want your grandkids to enjoy themselves don't put a 270 in their hands as it's just too much gun/recoil for them, gendel is a pussycat in comparison.
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Posted: 1/10/2020 6:40:38 PM EDT
[#22]
I own both Calibers. The 270 Win is in a Winchester Model 70 featherweight and the Grendel is on the AR Platform. The 270Win doesn't have much less recoil than a 30-06 shooting 150gr bullets if you ask me. There are better choices (recoil wise) for new shooters.
At the ranges listed the 6.5 Grendel is fine. If you're looking for a bolt action rifle then I would suggest other cartridges. 7mm-08, .243Win, 6.5 Creedmor, 25-06, 260 Rem, to name a few. My brother has started his kids on the 7mm-08 and the Creedmor and both have now shot deer with them both. Brother said he couldn't tell the difference in the terminal performance between the two calibers. Both deer ran very short distances and fell over dead. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 7:52:27 PM EDT
[#23]
I agree with others, it depends on whether you want a bolt action or an AR.
270 is a great round but it has substantial recoil in some loadings. However if you want to stick with a bolt action and the one you find is in 270, Hornady makes a lite load with a 120 SST loaded down to 2675 out of a 24 inch barrel. Since many rifles have 22 inch barrels it would probably be a little slower than that. Or you could go to the 6.5 Creedmoor, it's a little lower recoiling round. 6.8 or 6.5 out of an AR would be kid friendly as well. |
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Posted: 1/11/2020 4:20:57 PM EDT
[#24]
The grendel would work for your grand kids. And it would work on larger game.
Same for the 243. Most factory rifles are 1:10. Savage is 1:9.5". My son's Mossberg is 1:10. It handles 100gr bullets well out to at least 200 yards. That's plenty for North America imho. Grendel does have the issue of availability. I've never seen it on a shelf except maybe bass pro recently. 243 and 270 are everywhere. Personally I vote grendel. You can even just set yourself up with a grendel upper and swap it into an existing ar lower if you don't want to do a whole rifle. Also might consider doing a large frame ar and go with a creedmoor. |
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Posted: 1/12/2020 9:13:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@IndyGrendel63 Is the Ruger predator the same thing as the Ruger American? If so, what about it didn't you like? Thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Came to post this. I have two Grendel ARs and recently added a howa mini action in 6.5 Grendel. I haven’t shot a deer myself in several years but my daughters have been slaying them with my Grendel ARs. I bought the howa for me since they were using my ARs. I tried the Ruger predator in 6.5 Grendel but I just didn’t like it. The howa is much nicer and smaller. 6.5 Grendel gets my vote. Is the Ruger predator the same thing as the Ruger American? If so, what about it didn't you like? Thanks It was the Ruger American Predator. Chambered in 6.5 Grendel and it took AR mags. It was very accurate, sub MOA right off the bat. The issue I had was I really wanted a heavier barrel but it only came with a medium heavy contour. The big issue was feeding. Since it used AR mags it took me a while to figure out you had to cycle the bolt like a gas gun, really fast. I ended up polishing the feed lips and ramps of the mag and rifle, that helped a lot but it still wasn’t great. I called ruger and they sent me the rotary magazine for it ( no charge). I wish I knew how it fed, but that mag was worthless. Every time I put it in the rifle it flexed enough to release all of the rounds, dumped them right out. I gave up at that point, sold it and bought a howa mini action (should have bought it in the first place). The howa is a much better built rifle but it uses a proprietary 5 round mag. If you want to use standard AR mags only and are willing to put up with the cycling then go for it. I have not been able to get the howa to shoot as well as the Ruger did (yet), but the Ruger did it without and fuss with factory ammo. The stocks on both rifles are plastic and flexible but I give a slight edge to the howa, but not by much. Oh, the ruger has an integral rail on top of the receiver plus a three lug bolt (70 degree bolt lift). Still trying to work out a load for my Grendels that equals or betters the amax or sst factory stuff. |
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Posted: 1/12/2020 9:33:13 PM EDT
[#26]
A .270 is pretty close in recoil to a 30-06
A Grendel is a slow AR that slings good BC bullets Not even the same animal For your suggestion and out of the two, I'd get the kids a Grendel. My kids haven't taken to the AR platform well and honestly it is much harder to shoot naturally than a regular drop angle stock bolt gun. I got started shooting the .243, then got the .270. I use my small frame AR's for 300yd and in shooting. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:45:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Parroting the others, two entirely different beasts and I’m quite fond of both. I think a mini howa in 6.5G with a 20ish inch barrel and appropriate scope would close to idea for a small general purpose rifle.
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Posted: 2/20/2020 6:26:58 PM EDT
[#28]
@Deuskid
Are you intending to compare the 6.5 grendel to the 270 or are you meaning the 6.5 creedmoor? The Creedmoor and 270 are very similar rounds ballistically. The grendel is a substantially slower and isn't in the same category as others have said. The 270 being a long action will have a little more weight to it inherently in most platforms (all other things being equal). It's an established round that won't be going anywhere, and you can find ammo just about everywhere for it. Excellent performance and a wide range of bullet options make it a very versatile round. The 6.5 creedmoor, assuming this may be in the mix, is an excellent short action caliber for hunting and target shooting. It's very popular and I would expect the ammo to remain readily available. It will probably have slightly less recoil than the 270. Between these two, I'd honestly just see what rifle you like based on the features and go with whichever caliber you find first. If you WERE intending to compare the 6.5 grendel, it's still a great round, but is nowhere near the velocity/energy of the other two above. I use this round chambered in an AR platform for hunting and took a deer with it this year. Shot placement is key, and for an inexperienced hunter or someone who isn't as good of a shot, I'd err to the side of having the extra energy over what this round offers. If the shooter is confident and comfortable making an ethical shot, this round is absolutely capable. |
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Posted: 2/20/2020 6:46:43 PM EDT
[#29]
You can not go wrong with any of the cartridges you have listed.
I would lean away from the 270 - it just has too much recoil. I would like at the smaller package Ruger American Ranch - 16 inch barrels vs. the 22 inch in the predator. The 243 is a sweet sweet Round (yes I typed SWEET - twice). I bought a used Ruger hawkeye in 243 (the guy was wanting an ar to go songdog hunting). So I traded some funds and a whole bunch of 556 I bought cheap and was letting go at the top of the market 2012.... the gun is 8 for 8 with four shooters! With the Hornady American Whitetail - I always get a pass thru - some time the blood trail is not there - but none have gone more than 50 yards. Some will drop in their tracks - Strange - but it works! Have a good time there ole man - set it up and make it fun and you and the kids will cherish the memories for a life time! Red ps I think that you can set up an AR in the Grendel the same way - compact - light weight and easy to shoot. pss - Please put up a post for us and @ Us all !!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 2/20/2020 6:57:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Grendel would be a great setup for mid range hunting, very light recoil and pretty darn effective round on game.
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Posted: 2/20/2020 7:01:06 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 2/20/2020 7:12:29 PM EDT
[#32]
.270 is long action and similar to 30.06 with a lighter round and flatter trajectory, I use a 270 most of the time.
For kids and smaller people Id go for a .308 and use a lighter round, my wife uses a 7mm-08 which is very similar. Even a 30-30 or .35 would get it done with good ammo. |
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Posted: 2/20/2020 7:52:03 PM EDT
[#33]
These are really two ry different cartridges..
The .270 isn't a "hard kicker". However, it is a full sized cartridge based on the full length 30-06 sized case. As such it needs a longer heavier action, and generates recoil right up there with the 3006 and 308 win. While the 270 is somewhat softer kicking, it isn't by much. We are still talking 130 grain bullets at 3000+ fps, over large charges of powder... The 6.5 Grendel really doesn't haven't the power and legs of the 270. However, given your intended uses, this isn't an issue. It have plenty of power for deer at anything out to 250 yards... Recoil is significantly softer than the 270. The 6.5Grendel is driving a somewhat lighter bullet, often a 120 or 125, to a much reduced velocity of about 2300-2400 fps. Lighter bullet, much lighter powder charges and speeds of about 600 fps less mean a noticeably lighter kicking cartridge, that can be fired in a much lighter rifle. Given your intended uses, I'd be looking at the 6.5 Grendel over the 270. The Grendel is much more suited to low recoil deer harvesting, and is completely suitable for your purposes. If, at any time, you are hesitant and still want low recoil but decent power (at least more than 6.5 Grendel) the obvious choices are the intermediate ground: Look at 6.5 Creedmoor/.260 Rem/6.5x55 Swede |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 9:10:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For kids and smaller people Id go for a .308 and use a lighter round, my wife uses a 7mm-08 which is very similar. |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 11:26:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parroting the others, two entirely different beasts and I'm quite fond of both. I think a mini howa in 6.5G with a 20ish inch barrel and appropriate scope would be close to ideal for a small general purpose rifle. A collapsible stock on a bolt gun would also work great for a growing child; just pull it out another click as they get older. 
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Posted: 2/25/2020 2:48:02 PM EDT
[#36]
For a kids first hunting rifle for deer I would be looking at 6.5 cred (about 33% less recoil than .308) 7mm-08, or 243. Those will get the job done and have less recoild then 270, 308 or 30-06.
If semi auto 6.5g makes the most sense |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 4:02:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 +2 on the 7mm-08. |
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Posted: 3/20/2020 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Honestly I’d split the difference. I hunt w a grendel and a 270 but I’d get a 6.5 creedmoor, 7mm-08,or good old 308. They won’t ever put grow them, can hunt anything from coyote to at least elk, all have very low recoil options and are chambered in just about every rifle currently sold.
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Posted: 3/20/2020 2:52:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Howa Mini bolt action in 6.5 grendel is what you seek. See if you can find one that comes with the youth stock and adult stock.
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Posted: 3/27/2020 4:19:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have shot a 270 that was the worst kicker I ever shot. And I hunt with a 300 Win Mag. For a kid 243. I started my son on a 6mm, which has similar recoil. He still hunts with it 15 years later. I hunt exclusively with .223 now - haven't run into a deer that knew the difference yet. That said, if I had to pick a new caliber for deer, 6.5Grendel would be at the top of the list. The recommendation of a .243 is also solid. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 5:36:46 AM EDT
[#41]
I have a Remington Model 7 chambered in 7mm SAUM. It kicked pretty hard until I put a quality muzzle brake on it. Recoil is more like a .243 now.
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