User Panel
Posted: 10/11/2021 11:46:01 AM EDT
I know I know, this is hardly the time for such a request. But that said, the FN PS90 is a radical piece of engineering allowing an amazingly compact little rear-echelon arm; comparable in design philosophy to the M1 Carbine, but with modern improvements.
If you can believe it, that product was launched 31 years ago (1990, hence the name). Which means, the patents are long since expired. FN has done what FN always does, which is fantastic design engineering for an incredibly low cost product, and then priced it at such an absurd margin for the logo and to recover the engineering, that it's no longer an increadibly low cost product. But in the end, it's a mostly plastic and stamped component blow-back arm. That doesn't cost $1000 to make. I would LOVE to see a credible mass-production venue like PSA churn out copies of this unit, and do so at the price-point it actually should be (<<$1000). So! Just a request to keep that in mind, for the future at least, since obviously now's a spotty time to start anything new. Best regards and keep up the amazing work gents! |
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There isn't enough ammo available to feed the existing 5.7 firearms out there.
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Quoted: There isn't enough ammo available to feed the existing 5.7 firearms out there. View Quote Ha! in a way, same problem that M1 Carbine had - unique ammo nothing else used - so logistics supply was always special. That said, supply follows demand. It's all goofy now, but for the last 30 years, it's been such a rare and obscure round, it's not worth bother for many to make it. But if demand goes up, then economy of scale and appeal of supply, also goes up. So it's in the best interst of 5.7 shooters, for more and more units that consume 5.7, to be made. Long Term. 2020/2021/2022... ehhh, right! |
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If you take this idea, what would be the feasibility of making your knock off P90 in some other calibers?
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Quoted: Ha! in a way, same problem that M1 Carbine had - unique ammo nothing else used - so logistics supply was always special. That said, supply follows demand. It's all goofy now, but for the last 30 years, it's been such a rare and obscure round, it's not worth bother for many to make it. But if demand goes up, then economy of scale and appeal of supply, also goes up. So it's in the best interst of 5.7 shooters, for more and more units that consume 5.7, to be made. Long Term. 2020/2021/2022... ehhh, right! View Quote Over a dozen new 5.7 firearms have come out in the last few years. Ammo has not become more available. And the good stuff is extremely hard to come by right now. As for another cartridge, I don't think anything else with work with the same magazine design. A 22lr PS90 would be a sweet trainer gun though. |
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I agree, I love my PS90s and love the innovations. A refresh to the design would be great though. I'd like to see:
1) Roller delayed to lighten gun and reduce recoil for follow up shots 2) Better trigger (ala RDB/RFB) 3) Rail instead of forward grip |
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Ehh, I dont know how difficult it would be to copy the design of the PS90, but it would probably be a significant investment of time and capital. Course, Ruger and Kel-Tec both have a new 5.7 pistol, and there are still other 5.7 firearms, so thats not to say it wouldnt be a terrible idea.
But I would put it in the same category as the PSA Bullpup, Garand, MP5, and whatever else was a cool idea that is not likely to happen anytime soon, if ever. |
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Quoted: Over a dozen new 5.7 firearms have come out in the last few years. Ammo has not become more available. And the good stuff is extremely hard to come by right now. As for another cartridge, I don't think anything else with work with the same magazine design. A 22lr PS90 would be a sweet trainer gun though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Ha! in a way, same problem that M1 Carbine had - unique ammo nothing else used - so logistics supply was always special. That said, supply follows demand. It's all goofy now, but for the last 30 years, it's been such a rare and obscure round, it's not worth bother for many to make it. But if demand goes up, then economy of scale and appeal of supply, also goes up. So it's in the best interst of 5.7 shooters, for more and more units that consume 5.7, to be made. Long Term. 2020/2021/2022... ehhh, right! Over a dozen new 5.7 firearms have come out in the last few years. Ammo has not become more available. And the good stuff is extremely hard to come by right now. As for another cartridge, I don't think anything else with work with the same magazine design. A 22lr PS90 would be a sweet trainer gun though. .22 Magnum would be a very intersting copy. |
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Quoted: Over a dozen new 5.7 firearms have come out in the last few years. Ammo has not become more available. And the good stuff is extremely hard to come by right now. As for another cartridge, I don't think anything else with work with the same magazine design. A 22lr PS90 would be a sweet trainer gun though. View Quote Over a dozen?? |
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Quoted: Ha! in a way, same problem that M1 Carbine had - unique ammo nothing else used - so logistics supply was always special. That said, supply follows demand. It's all goofy now, but for the last 30 years, it's been such a rare and obscure round, it's not worth bother for many to make it. But if demand goes up, then economy of scale and appeal of supply, also goes up. So it's in the best interst of 5.7 shooters, for more and more units that consume 5.7, to be made. Long Term. 2020/2021/2022... ehhh, right! View Quote This does not apply when one entity (FN) controls production of brass. Only recently has a 2nd brass supplier come on board (forget the name). I was hoping NATO standardization would open up options but that hasn't happened yet. |
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Quoted: This does not apply when one entity (FN) controls production of brass. Only recently has a 2nd brass supplier come on board (forget the name). I was hoping NATO standardization would open up options but that hasn't happened yet. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Ha! in a way, same problem that M1 Carbine had - unique ammo nothing else used - so logistics supply was always special. That said, supply follows demand. It's all goofy now, but for the last 30 years, it's been such a rare and obscure round, it's not worth bother for many to make it. But if demand goes up, then economy of scale and appeal of supply, also goes up. So it's in the best interst of 5.7 shooters, for more and more units that consume 5.7, to be made. Long Term. 2020/2021/2022... ehhh, right! This does not apply when one entity (FN) controls production of brass. Only recently has a 2nd brass supplier come on board (forget the name). I was hoping NATO standardization would open up options but that hasn't happened yet. There is no exclusivity force for that to be the case, as the patents are long since dead. If there is sufficient market demand, the market will respond; as there is no reason for them not to, other than insufficient volume. Obviously this year probably isn't the year for that. But 2 years from now (when a PSA development probably would be launced, if they started now), that timing and market condition would be quite tidy for PPU or whoever to start mass producing those little casings. Though if I really had my druthers, I'd love to see a company called Palmetto State Ammo.... But that would be a whole other thread. |
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I've bought a ton of ammo over the years from Precision One and Georgia Arms.
But they buy all their components. |
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Quoted: I agree, I love my PS90s and love the innovations. A refresh to the design would be great though. I'd like to see: 1) Roller delayed to lighten gun and reduce recoil for follow up shots 2) Better trigger (ala RDB/RFB) 3) Rail instead of forward grip View Quote 4) Last round bolt hold. . I was about to buy a PS90 until I heard about that feature, or the lack there of. . The barrel swap process leaves a bit to be desired too. But I could go on and on. I like the 5.7 because it allows for a more compact form factor than the traditional Stock-pistolgrip-magazine-barrel config. It works good, really good. But at a certain point you just can't shorten the barrel any more. Look at the sig rattler, it's got like a 5.5" barrel on a 300BO. Like my Glock has a 5.5" barrel, lol. Not bashing the rattler, in fact I like that gun. There's others too the micro evo's, the compact GHM-9c, and I like all those guns. But the point being if we want to keep going smaller we either need to go something like a MP7/TP9 design with a magazine in grip or something that can effectively use the PS90s magazine. Idk the more I think about it something like the Desert Tech Micron is advertised as being similar size to a PS90, so maybe I'm thinking too much here. Either way 5.7 seems cool. PDWs are cool. The gun that can make the most use out of 5.7 is the PS90. |
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A rimfire version in 17HMR
Also don't foget the pistol version where the back end of the receiver is a brace : ) |
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Quoted: Over a dozen new 5.7 firearms have come out in the last few years. Ammo has not become more available. And the good stuff is extremely hard to come by right now. As for another cartridge, I don't think anything else with work with the same magazine design. A 22lr PS90 would be a sweet trainer gun though. View Quote you can do a bull pup build of a Ruger 10/22 in a PS90 style stock set by hightower armory. i've done this. it shoots 22 fine as it is a 10/22 in another skin. i'd expect PSA would do the AR57 style upper first before they were to ever do a PS90 clone/rebuild. I do like the idea, especially with more caliber choices. I for one love the 5.7, although i only have 2 guns that fire the round. My ps90 and my FiveseveN both are in OD green. that said, i hope to pickup the ruger 57 the Diamondback DBx57 and the Banshee 57 as well. one thing that would be great to also see other manufactureers making is higher capacity magazines for the 5.7 pistol, this in turn would open it up to longer magazines in the banshees the diamondbacks, and whatever other guns use the 5.7's mags... to this day i still cant see me buying and trusting the PROMag 30 rounders... i like the capacity... just cant trust ProMag after their reputation and the luck i've had with them in the past. A ps90 in .30carbine would be interesting though. these are interessting ideas, and great ones.. maybe PSA will make 5.7 ammo since they're gonna have ammo production under their belt soon. |
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Giving a bit more thought, if PSA were to try their hand at the 5.7 round, I would say using the JAKL upper as a base, and either making their own FN Five-Seven mag compatible lower, or using the CMMG 5.7 40 round mags they sell on their site with a standard lower, would be a way to go.
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Quoted: you can do a bull pup build of a Ruger 10/22 in a PS90 style stock set by hightower armory. i've done this. it shoots 22 fine as it is a 10/22 in another skin. i'd expect PSA would do the AR57 style upper first before they were to ever do a PS90 clone/rebuild. I do like the idea, especially with more caliber choices. I for one love the 5.7, although i only have 2 guns that fire the round. My ps90 and my FiveseveN both are in OD green. that said, i hope to pickup the ruger 57 the Diamondback DBx57 and the Banshee 57 as well. one thing that would be great to also see other manufactureers making is higher capacity magazines for the 5.7 pistol, this in turn would open it up to longer magazines in the banshees the diamondbacks, and whatever other guns use the 5.7's mags... to this day i still cant see me buying and trusting the PROMag 30 rounders... i like the capacity... just cant trust ProMag after their reputation and the luck i've had with them in the past. A ps90 in .30carbine would be interesting though. these are interessting ideas, and great ones.. maybe PSA will make 5.7 ammo since they're gonna have ammo production under their belt soon. View Quote I almost got one of those 10/22 stocks, but if I recall it hade to be used with a 18"+ barrel to still be considered non nfa, so all my nice 10/22 barrels would be useless. I wish I could have copped an AR57 upper when they were available |
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Missed the “product suggestions” sticky…huh?
I say forget the firearm…produce some decently priced ammo instead. |
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I kind of thought a traditional profile rifle that used either Ruger or FN pistol mags would be neat like a 5.7 version of the PC Carbine.
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Quoted: I kind of thought a traditional profile rifle that used either Ruger or FN pistol mags would be neat like a 5.7 version of the PC Carbine. View Quote Attached File |
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A big issue with a replica ps90 is that it needs to have a stamp. Nobody wants a 16" barreled ps90.
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I kind of thought a traditional profile rifle that used either Ruger or FN pistol mags would be neat like a 5.7 version of the PC Carbine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173511/IMG_0060-920x690_jpg-2144901.JPG Little more normal would be good |
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MP7 clone. If you can fit the magazine in the grip you might as well do that and have a truly functional PDW. Keep it as a pistol without a brace, brace it, or SBR as desired.
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Quoted: MP7 clone. If you can fit the magazine in the grip you might as well do that and have a truly functional PDW. Keep it as a pistol without a brace, brace it, or SBR as desired. View Quote Take a peek at what Crye is working on. But I agree 100%. I also have a TP9 which is probably one of my favorite guns. The mag in the grip makes the gun more compact without having to go with like a 3" barrel. Like on that goofy sig copperhead thing. |
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Quoted: This does not apply when one entity (FN) controls production of brass. Only recently has a 2nd brass supplier come on board (forget the name). I was hoping NATO standardization would open up options but that hasn't happened yet. View Quote |
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Make one in 9mm. What's funny to me about 5.7 is I remember when it was available by the truckload for under $.40 a round and nobody wanted it. I seriously considered buying 10-15K to flip down the road because I had a feeling it would get scarce. I really don't like the coated brass aspect and I imagine it's why nobody else has jumped in the ring.
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Quoted: https://www.gunsandpride.com/2021/10/16/an-mp7-style-pdw-in-300-blk-a-crye-patent-suggests-so-the-firearm-blog/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/418820/Crye_US11105574_01_png-2151564.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/418820/Crye_US11105574_03_png-2151569.JPG View Quote Okay, a few things...
Anyways, looks cool, not so sure about the magazine, but if it works, neat. That said, I would much rather see something like that in a pistol caliber, like 9mm or 5.7, because save for .300 blackout, its basically a reusable flashbang/range annoyer. |
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