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@barrelnutz
Have you contacted anybody at Cerro forge on this? Curious as to their assessment after viewing the pics?. |
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@Tigwelder1971
I actually shot them an email with my pics and a couple of yours a couple days ago. Hopefully, I wont get the cold shoulder like MSI I'll update if I hear back. |
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Quoted:
Excuse my language, but fuck me. I bought 2 from the seller linked above, and two others from a small online gun store. I'm afraid they are the same. After seeing this post, i had to pull them out and examine much closer. I noticed more than what is mentioned here. The two are in the mail on the way to me, I've asked the seller for a refund via email and will ship them back. I'm hoping he's honest and will refund the money. Will report back on that. Anyway, let's walk through this in detail. I feel like an idiot already, so i'm doing this for the benefit of others. If it looks too good to be true, it is. My first thought after having these in hand is they are too nice, for the price I paid (online store was $100 ea, above EE post i bought from was $300/2. I thought they were NOS, which is why I was willing to ante up) Needless to say let's put this to bed. They are fake. I was able to knock the raised C mark off after using my thumb nail, running over it. Also note keyhole forge mark does look suspect upon closer inspection. https://i.imgur.com/Et3nOIs.jpg Can confirm the actual forgings are different, Tig has a good eye: https://i.imgur.com/ktBYrH0.jpg Anodizing looks totally wrong side by side vs real colt: https://i.imgur.com/loqMdcU.jpg What else? Notice the machining ends abruptly on the fake, and continues to the charging handle cutout: https://i.imgur.com/1Gu10fT.jpg What else? Notice the M4 marked front font is different, and appears to be laser etched possibly? The M4 on colt real is stamped. https://i.imgur.com/dVAi0mX.jpg Well, don't get taken like me. Lesson learned, and hopefully will only be $200 out of pocket as the online retailer never advertised them as Colt, thus i really don't have a leg to stand on. Hopefully the EE seller is a stand up individual, and will refund accordingly. View Quote Well. I am convinced by the evidence you provided that the uppers in question are truly fakes. barrelnutz, you are in the right. |
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Those are absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, fake Colt receivers.
And before chhorton pipes up again, real forge marks can't be scraped off with your thumb nail. |
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Anyone who has scraped one have an idea what the material is?
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Woah!
What a waste of time and effort to make those fake receivers.. it would have been a lot easier to take a generic one and add a C with a hammer & letter punch |
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Quoted:
Excuse my language, but fuck me. I bought 2 from the seller linked above, and two others from a small online gun store. I'm afraid they are the same. After seeing this post, i had to pull them out and examine much closer. I noticed more than what is mentioned here. The two are in the mail on the way to me, I've asked the seller for a refund via email and will ship them back. I'm hoping he's honest and will refund the money. Will report back on that. Anyway, let's walk through this in detail. I feel like an idiot already, so i'm doing this for the benefit of others. If it looks too good to be true, it is. My first thought after having these in hand is they are too nice, for the price I paid (online store was $100 ea, above EE post i bought from was $300/2. I thought they were NOS, which is why I was willing to ante up) Needless to say let's put this to bed. They are fake. I was able to knock the raised C mark off after using my thumb nail, running over it. Also note keyhole forge mark does look suspect upon closer inspection. https://i.imgur.com/Et3nOIs.jpg Can confirm the actual forgings are different, Tig has a good eye: https://i.imgur.com/ktBYrH0.jpg Anodizing looks totally wrong side by side vs real colt: https://i.imgur.com/loqMdcU.jpg What else? Notice the machining ends abruptly on the fake, and continues to the charging handle cutout: https://i.imgur.com/1Gu10fT.jpg What else? Notice the M4 marked front font is different, and appears to be laser etched possibly? The M4 on colt real is stamped. https://i.imgur.com/dVAi0mX.jpg Well, don't get taken like me. Lesson learned, and hopefully will only be $200 out of pocket as the online retailer never advertised them as Colt, thus i really don't have a leg to stand on. Hopefully the EE seller is a stand up individual, and will refund accordingly. View Quote I know there have been subtle changes over time, and I'm finding more out on that as I go. Shades in ano vary, contractors shave CNC time by modding programs , molds vary, etc. This is too fuckey though. I have never been able to scrape off or dislodge a forge casting mark. As a matter of fact, we usually use a grinder at the shop to remove them along with flashing. Granted, my work with aluminum is minimal though. I will say this....If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well, it's probably a goddam duck. Hopefully the sellers make you whole. |
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I am selling some colt uppers on the EE at this time and one of yall sent me a link to this post to take a look. Also, one of yall linked to my ad and were looking at some of my pics on the first page.
First off I want to note that I am NOT the seller that this thread is about. I have no idea who is either. Also, JLAUDIO posted some pics of an upper. Those are not mine as the ones from me are currently in the mail to him. I just wanted to clear that up since the thread maker did not say who he is talking about and you know how rumors spread on the internet. cont on next post: |
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cont from previous post:
My take on the issue. Many of the points brought up here I would brush off as colt fanatics being colt fanatics. If there is one thing that Colt has been consistent about it is inconsistency. Colt fanatics are also known for overanalyzing things and making issues out of non-issues. Colt has used many suppliers and those suppliers have used various other suppliers. Things also change. Based on all that you will see variations in products. Lots of Colt owners freak out when a marking or some small detail on something they buy isn't the same as that on a rifle they currently own. ON THE OTHER HAND, having a roll mark come off does seem odd. That is really the only comment that really stands out to me. All the other stuff, I don't see those things indicating real or fake....its just different from another colt product, which is a very common thing. The supposed "fake" pictures posted are NOT from ones that came from me so I cant speak to those or look them over. I personally think what is more likely is that they are just poor quality and not fake. I just don't see someone buying uppers in the white and adding on markings and then anodizing them and having them come out well. It is just not realistic. I have a handful left and I am going to take a close look at mine and provide my opinion on the ones I have. I originally got about 20 of them from 2 different suppliers about a year ago. I have build a handful of guns with them and they are running fine. I have not previously looked at the roll marks up close because I have never cared to look at them closely. I will report back with my findings. AGAIN, I am not the seller who provided the OP or the other person with the ones they have an issue with. Since my listing got tossed into the mix I want to be clear that we are talking about someone else. |
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Quoted:
I am selling some colt uppers on the EE at this time and one of yall sent me a link to this post to take a look. Also, one of yall linked to my ad and were looking at some of my pics on the first page. First off I want to note that I am NOT the seller that this thread is about. I have no idea who is either. Also, JLAUDIO posted some pics of an upper. Those are not mine as the ones from me are currently in the mail to him. I just wanted to clear that up since the thread maker did not say who he is talking about and you know how rumors spread on the internet. cont on next post: View Quote I linked your EE ad/pic here. As example/reference to forging profile only. No intention of crapping on your sale or insinuating that the seller mentioned in the OP was you. |
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I know. I just wanted to specifically point out that and the other things I mentioned to make sure nobody assumed it was me or anything.
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Quoted:
cont from previous post: My take on the issue. Many of the points brought up here I would brush off as colt fanatics being colt fanatics. If there is one thing that Colt has been consistent about it is inconsistency. Colt fanatics are also known for overanalyzing things and making issues out of non-issues. Colt has used many suppliers and those suppliers have used various other suppliers. Things also change. Based on all that you will see variations in products. Lots of Colt owners freak out when a marking or some small detail on something they buy isn't the same as that on a rifle they currently own. ON THE OTHER HAND, having a roll mark come off does seem odd. That is really the only comment that really stands out to me. All the other stuff, I don't see those things indicating real or fake....its just different from another colt product, which is a very common thing. The supposed "fake" pictures posted are NOT from ones that came from me so I cant speak to those or look them over. I personally think what is more likely is that they are just poor quality and not fake. I just don't see someone buying uppers in the white and adding on markings and then anodizing them and having them come out well. It is just not realistic. I have a handful left and I am going to take a close look at mine and provide my opinion on the ones I have. I originally got about 20 of them from 2 different suppliers about a year ago. I have build a handful of guns with them and they are running fine. I have not previously looked at the roll marks up close because I have never cared to look at them closely. I will report back with my findings. AGAIN, I am not the seller who provided the OP or the other person with the ones they have an issue with. Since my listing got tossed into the mix I want to be clear that we are talking about someone else. View Quote |
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like I said, that part is a bit odd.
I still think that that probability is that its some sort of defect over a fake. I have had new colt bolt lugs come off before. Does that one guy have a pic of what came off? I am interested in taking a closer look at the ones I have later today and trying to remove one with my fingernail. |
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Quoted:
@brook99 hard to get super clear pictures with my phone since it's small. had to get down on all 4's to find this tiny thing on the hardwood floors these show both sides of the "raised C", front and back https://i.imgur.com/M7RxSIF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iddJGtn.jpg https://i.imgur.com/cFYFcyg.jpg here is a pic showing it matches what came off https://i.imgur.com/MXYVCeh.jpg View Quote |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
@brook99 hard to get super clear pictures with my phone since it's small. had to get down on all 4's to find this tiny thing on the hardwood floors these show both sides of the "raised C", front and back https://i.imgur.com/M7RxSIF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iddJGtn.jpg https://i.imgur.com/cFYFcyg.jpg here is a pic showing it matches what came off https://i.imgur.com/MXYVCeh.jpg |
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Quoted:
I'm real curious as to how it was done, if they do end up being counterfeit. I cannot see them being anything other though. View Quote any ideas on how i can probe or figure out how these are attached? i'm willing to destroy one to get to the bottom of this, i do not plan on using them at all. i don't trust them. |
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Quoted: i was not trying to be negative. that just seemed like the most appropriate term. View Quote Cool. One thing to keep in mind is JLAudio's upper is a data pool of one. Thanks JLAudio! We need to keep gathering data for a better understanding of the uppers in question and trace back sources. Brook99, I was making no reference to you personally in my comments about your EE ad, I hope you know that. |
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Quoted: what remains of the C on the upper feels like hardened glue, and looks clear. epoxy maybe? certainly not metal. any ideas on how i can probe or figure out how these are attached? i'm willing to destroy one to get to the bottom of this, i do not plan on using them at all. i don't trust them. View Quote Should not harm the ano. |
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Quoted:
I could maybe agree with your assessment of them being low quality outsourced if it wasn't for 1 thing. No 7075 forge mark, engraving, or roll mark is going to be scraped off with a thumb nail. That one point IMO takes it from low quality/outsourced to a fake. View Quote In the last pics, notice also, the position of the forging mark in relation to the 1913 grooves. Very different, one pic to the other. Also, the C and keyhole on my uppers do have signs of either welding or epoxy marks, and some shading in the anodizingina halo on both marks. As to whether it is economical to make a forgery, you assume not until you explore the possibility that this was done overseas. A shop in Asia can pay someone pennies per hour. |
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Quoted:
Excuse my language, but fuck me. I bought 2 from the seller linked above, and two others from a small online gun store. I'm afraid they are the same. After seeing this post, i had to pull them out and examine much closer. I noticed more than what is mentioned here. The two are in the mail on the way to me, I've asked the seller for a refund via email and will ship them back. I'm hoping he's honest and will refund the money. Will report back on that. Anyway, let's walk through this in detail. I feel like an idiot already, so i'm doing this for the benefit of others. If it looks too good to be true, it is. My first thought after having these in hand is they are too nice, for the price I paid (online store was $100 ea, above EE post i bought from was $300/2. I thought they were NOS, which is why I was willing to ante up) Needless to say let's put this to bed. They are fake. I was able to knock the raised C mark off after using my thumb nail, running over it. Also note keyhole forge mark does look suspect upon closer inspection. https://i.imgur.com/Et3nOIs.jpg Can confirm the actual forgings are different, Tig has a good eye: https://i.imgur.com/ktBYrH0.jpg Anodizing looks totally wrong side by side vs real colt: https://i.imgur.com/loqMdcU.jpg What else? Notice the machining ends abruptly on the fake, and continues to the charging handle cutout: https://i.imgur.com/1Gu10fT.jpg What else? Notice the M4 marked front font is different, and appears to be laser etched possibly? The M4 on colt real is stamped. https://i.imgur.com/dVAi0mX.jpg Well, don't get taken like me. Lesson learned, and hopefully will only be $200 out of pocket as the online retailer never advertised them as Colt, thus i really don't have a leg to stand on. Hopefully the EE seller is a stand up individual, and will refund accordingly. View Quote |
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Quoted:
Where did you get those from? View Quote https://www.customar15.net/product/stripped-milspec-m4-upper-receiver/ Snake River Armory that someone else posted are the same, and there are also suspected GB listings selling these uppers. Two additional are en route to be delivered tomorrow or Friday from Brooke99 that I purchased from the EE. I am asking for a full refund, return shipping I will eat. |
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Quoted: The two i have in my possession currently are from here: https://www.customar15.net/product/stripped-milspec-m4-upper-receiver/ Snake River Armory that someone else posted are the same, and there are also suspected GB listings selling these uppers. Two additional are en route to be delivered tomorrow or Friday from Brooke99 that I purchased from the EE. I am asking for a full refund, return shipping I will eat. View Quote ETA: I SEE NOW, VARIOUS FORGE MARKINGS. But not all C marked? HOTLINKED |
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Quoted:
The two i have in my possession currently are from here: https://www.customar15.net/product/stripped-milspec-m4-upper-receiver/ Snake River Armory that someone else posted are the same, and there are also suspected GB listings selling these uppers. Two additional are en route to be delivered tomorrow or Friday from Brooke99 that I purchased from the EE. I am asking for a full refund, return shipping I will eat. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Where did you get those from? https://www.customar15.net/product/stripped-milspec-m4-upper-receiver/ Snake River Armory that someone else posted are the same, and there are also suspected GB listings selling these uppers. Two additional are en route to be delivered tomorrow or Friday from Brooke99 that I purchased from the EE. I am asking for a full refund, return shipping I will eat. Will have to examine the forge markings tomorrow. |
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I am starting to wonder how these uppers were sold to the original dealers that got them?
The link above to customar15.net clearly has them as “C” marked not Colt while snake river armory is selling them as Colt. Is it possible that a batch of “C” marked uppers came from somewhere, were sold as such and dealers assumed they were Colt and sold them as that? |
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Quoted:
I am starting to wonder how these uppers were sold to the original dealers that got them? The link above to customar15.net clearly has them as “C” marked not Colt while snake river armory is selling them as Colt. Is it possible that a batch of “C” marked uppers came from somewhere, were sold as such and dealers assumed they were Colt and sold them as that? View Quote |
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@Tigwelder1971 When I got mine, 2 of them looked like that. I am betting that maybe they were overruns and the supplier did not remove the C like they were supposed to on some of them and sold them. Speaking with someone I think I may know which supplier they came from. I am working to confirm.
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Quoted:
@Tigwelder1971 When I got mine, 2 of them looked like that. I am betting that maybe they were overruns and the supplier did not remove the C like they were supposed to on some of them and sold them. Speaking with someone I think I may know which supplier they came from. I am working to confirm. View Quote |
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Quoted:
No upper receivers are marked with a C other than Colt. View Quote I’m not saying that it isn’t deceiving with an upper marked C that isn’t Colt but is there actually anything legally saying that a manufacturer that isn’t Colt mark theirs with a “C”? That brings us to the same question, I wonder how these uppers were originally presented to the dealers that first got them. Were they advertised as a C marked upper and they were assumed to be Colts or were they told they were actually Colt upper? |
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Quoted:
I understand this but, is this a case of “no others but Colt marked with a C” or is there actually some kind of registered trademark on this? I’m not saying that it isn’t deceiving with an upper marked C that isn’t Colt but is there actually anything legally saying that a manufacturer that isn’t Colt mark theirs with a “C”? That brings us to the same question, I wonder how these uppers were originally presented to the dealers that first got them. Were they advertised as a C marked upper and they were assumed to be Colts or were they told they were actually Colt upper? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
No upper receivers are marked with a C other than Colt. I’m not saying that it isn’t deceiving with an upper marked C that isn’t Colt but is there actually anything legally saying that a manufacturer that isn’t Colt mark theirs with a “C”? That brings us to the same question, I wonder how these uppers were originally presented to the dealers that first got them. Were they advertised as a C marked upper and they were assumed to be Colts or were they told they were actually Colt upper? That being said, upper receiver forgings destined for Colt are marked with a C. It is Colt's identifying mark and industry known. For anybody in the AR world to reproduce that is shady shit. |
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Quoted: That being said, upper receiver forgings destined for Colt are marked with a C. It is Colt's identifying mark and industry known. For anybody in the AR world to reproduce that is shady shit. View Quote It not like Colt uppers are stamped/engraved with actual manufacturers markings/trademarks like a lower. If they were and that was replicated then they would be counterfeits. This thread was started as fake/counterfeit Colt uppers. Unless there is something legal that says only Colt can have a “C” on the upper, or these were sold to the initial dealers as actual Colt uppers and not just “C” marked mil-spec/DOD uppers then they are NOT fake/counterfeit Colts. Again yes, shady as fuck and very deceiving but shame on the dealers for assuming they were Colts and selling them as such if that is what happened. |
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That being said, SOME upper receiver forgings destined for Colt are marked with a C. It is Colt's identifying mark and industry known. View Quote |
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LOL, that review is retarded.
made for dod (milspec) means very tight tolerances.... OBVIOUSLY hahahaha that review is bait for the ignorant milspec fanboy |
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Quoted:
fixed (added the bold, underlined word). Plenty of them dont have C markings. Same with bolt carriers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
That being said, SOME upper receiver forgings destined for Colt are marked with a C. It is Colt's identifying mark and industry known. Carriers historically the same, brief runs in past w/o C stampings. Now apparently, possibly no more C stamped carriers going forward. No definite confirmation as of yet. And yes, the "review" is a joke, part of why I pointed it out. Also because the "reviewer" rambles on about "Colt". |
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"these are from a machine shop that knows how to finish uppers"
Tells me strange shit is at hand. I'm no expert. But these do not align with anything Colt and I'm glad that I didn't get stuck with any of this shit. And sorry for those who did. As @MILSPEC556 put it...."fuck fuck games". |
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Quoted:
"these are from a machine shop that knows how to finish uppers" Tells me strange shit is at hand. I'm no expert. But these do not align with anything Colt and I'm glad that I didn't get stuck with any of this shit. And sorry for those who did. As @MILSPEC556 put it...."fuck fuck games". View Quote Somebody is buying cheap ass forgings and trying to make them look Colt to flip a fat profit. Looks like they were successful. (Until they get to us- the end user who are actually familiar with real Colt receivers) |
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