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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:33:50 AM EDT
I’ve heard from a few say that Colt no longer will be marking their uppers with their cage code, is this verified or is this speculation based off the latest batches having no cage code markings?
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I'm going to go out on a limb that tig will respond shortly with sources, if so. He's a wealth of knowledge.
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I guess is a speculation unless the TDP has changed or colt is making Leo & civilian products on a completely separate production line from the mil stuff.
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Quoted: I’ve heard from a few say that Colt no longer will be marking their uppers with their cage code, is this verified or is this speculation based off the latest batches having no cage code markings? View Quote I've received and seen several upper receivers that were on Colt factory uppers (edit: complete URGs) without any cage code markings. Its fact according to what I've seen but don't have any info source or reference. I agree, Tig will have better info than me. |
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Quoted: I’ve heard from a few say that Colt no longer will be marking their uppers with their cage code, is this verified or is this speculation based off the latest batches having no cage code markings? View Quote You never know what your looking at for sure when something has been opened, but a LGS had a new Colt 11.5 EPR upper, everything looked legit, they had the box and it had the new vacumm sealed bag they cut open to remove it, and it had no cage code on the upper and there was no M4 mark on the upper either near the gas tube clover leaf. The T Marking fonts looked slightly different as well. I had no reason to believe any hanky panky was going on, but believe thats the way it came from Colt. It had all the Colt Cosmoline inside it like they come from Colt. Looked legit, but cant be certain. Colt may have run out of uppers and bought someone elses? Now that Colt is using vacuum sealed bags, had I cut open the bag and seen it that way, it would be more certain. |
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As 5pt56 stated, there are a shit ton of factory guns out there already sans CAGE /C markings. It's happened in cycles for years. Most recently the stock from Brownells last year.
It would not surprise me if Colt has decided to run separate production lines for .mil/LE and commercial products. One thing Colt is not is consistent. Which also leads to wild speculation. Here is a pic of a MN NG soldier last week in Minneapolis with his issued M4A1: Attached File Check out his receiver. (Nevermind the borked PG, different discussion altogether). Eta: Pic looks way blurry after upload on my end. LINK TO PIC HERE Another edit: The Brownells stock mentioned above were upper receivers only, not factory/complete guns. |
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FWIW my dept got 2 LE6933 EPRs a couple of weeks ago. Both uppers were cage coded.
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Last month I bought a new in box and sealed in the bag Colt 14.5" upper receiver assembly. The upper receiver was not marked with either a cage code or "C". The government profile barrel was marked with the cage code and dated 02/21. The bolt was (faintly) laser engraved with "MPC" and "A". The carrier was marked with a "C". The charging handle did not have the cage code.
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Received a new Colt upper from Brownells last month. No cage code but appears identical to other Colts I own.
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Quoted: Received a new Colt upper from Brownells last month. No cage code but appears identical to other Colts I own. View Quote I spoke with a few dealers, and what I understand is that Colt ramped up production and one contractor is providing keyhole marked uppers and another square marked and CAGE code, but for commercial and LE distribution, Colt has been running something like 60/40 to 70/30 in favor of no CAGE code, as the CAGE code must go to Government contracts. To Colt, they are the same in the Commercial and Law Enforcement market, and one dealer who asked Colt was told they are producing both, and they see them as identical, and do not really care what we think about their markings, which seems to be consistent with how they treat their rifles in commercial distribution. To some of the dealers I have spoken with, I had to explain what a CAGE code was. One never noticed, and other wanted to argue that was a serial number, as the barrel serial number matched. Maybe I am too close to the collector market here, but it is hard to imagine that Colt sells that many pistols to think of their commercial and law enforcement rifle market as a rounding error. I am thinking there is a very small number of people who would notice the difference, as long as the box says Colt. "we" in this forum get more concerned about markings and color and whatnot than Colt does. |
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Quoted: I’ve heard from a few say that Colt no longer will be marking their uppers with their cage code, is this verified or is this speculation based off the latest batches having no cage code markings? View Quote My last Colt upper I got had no markings on the upper; but the barrel, bolt, and Bolt carrier had Colt markings |
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Yikes the PG on that weapon lol. Interesting indeed, I thought all Gov. contract colt parts had to have a Cage code. Very interesting. I saw a new 14.5 Colt upper receiver group at my LGS and it didn’t have a Cage code or “C” stamp, just the cerro keyhole forge mark. CH and Barrel were Cage code marked and the BCG had an etched ”C” marking.
I prefer the marked charging handles and BCGs because I have been burned on CHs and BCGs that I was told were unmarked colt when they were indeed not colt. If they no longer have “m4” above gas tube port, and no Cage code and no grey dry lube inside then that is a bummer. Who knows if what you’re getting is actually Colt, I used to trust AU but after the ambi situation last week I no longer trust what they advertise as Colt is actually Colt. That kind of sparked my curiosity to post my question here. Thats my concern |
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Quoted: Interesting indeed, I thought all Gov. contract colt parts had to have a Cage code View Quote I am far from an expert in this but I believe that some(all?) of our military needs the cage code markings but Colt supplies to a lot of agencies, LE and foreign contracts that do not require it as well as the commercial rifles. That means they could take quite a supply of non-cage code marked parts and use them up as long as the ones that require it get it. So it wouldn’t be uncommon to see a 14.5” upper that didn’t have CAGE on it even though it isn’t “commercial”, it would have just gone to someone that didn’t require it. As far as the “m4” markings, maybe they are going the way of the “F” marked fsb. If they are only producing 1 type is there really a reason to mark it? |
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I don't want a commercial alternative upper, BCG, safety, whatever.
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Quoted:I thought all Gov. contract colt parts had to have a Cage code. View Quote You are correct: Attached File Colt would be identified as the Prime Contractor. I have no idea why receivers in the supply chain are missing these markings. |
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Quoted: I haven’t heard/seen of any not having dry film lube inside. View Quote I think some of the dry lube is black, and harder to see than the gray dry lube. I think all the Colt uppers have dry lube. yes, I am sure the military gets CAGE code, but undersand that what we are getting is through commerical or LE distribution, not military. |
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Quoted: I think some of the dry lube is black, and harder to see than the gray dry lube. I think all the Colt uppers have dry lube. yes, I am sure the military gets CAGE code, but undersand that what we are getting is through commerical or LE distribution, not military. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I haven’t heard/seen of any not having dry film lube inside. I think some of the dry lube is black, and harder to see than the gray dry lube. I think all the Colt uppers have dry lube. yes, I am sure the military gets CAGE code, but undersand that what we are getting is through commerical or LE distribution, not military. I've not seen any evidence of use of any color other than the standard gray dry film. Easy enough to confirm/deny as dry film will scrape off with a fingernail. |
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Im not sure if this helps but all of my recently purchased colt uppers have been cage marked. None of them were the dot matrix either
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I ordered a 6920 upper from Brownell's in September. Came with 13629 next to the brass aluminum square forge mark. Barrell is marked MP 13629.
Full dry lube treatment.. .2c |
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I have one 2018 6920 upper with no CAGE or C, but does have M4 on the front and gray dry lube inside.
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Quoted: Bought mine from LGS last month. Mine is very similar, plus a C marked carrier. View Quote Mine actually came with the 'C' marked laser etched BCG as well Does your barrel have an 'R' marking on it ahead of the delta ring towards the muzzle? I noticed this recently on mine I believe it means remington but i'm not sure |
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My recently procured 11.5 upper from Brownells has the cage code and Square forge marking, nothing else I can find.
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Fwiw Bartocci just released a new vid comparing the old LE series to the newer CR one
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Quoted: you got more that most folks. I got keyhole and and nothing else. But, let me ask, what do you think is missing? View Quote I don't really know what people are looking for to be honest. It came sealed in a plastic bag in a Colt box which is all I care about really. perhaps mine has barrel markings under the handguards but it doesn't really matter to me. I think this thread is for collectors wanting specific markings which IMO is pretty much over for Colt as it's the NEW Colt/CZ production I'm assuming. |
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Quoted: I don't really know what people are looking for to be honest. It came sealed in a plastic bag in a Colt box which is all I care about really........................I think this thread is for collectors wanting specific markings. View Quote There are some that are want specific markings in all the places, but I think it is more wanting some sort of marking to differentiate from other random manufacturers. You got what you got in a sealed plastic bag, in a Colt box from what I assume is a reputable dealer. It is safe to say you got a genuine Colt product even if all the markings aren’t there. Your happy with, you know what it is and all is good. Go to sell that in the secondary market and it is now up to the buyer to trust your word for what it is. You might be trustworthy but I don’t know that and let’s be honest, there is a lot of shady people out there trying to scam someone and make a buck. Hell, I see it on this forum in the EE all the time not to mention “dealers” that will do the same thing. It’s one thing if you have it priced the same as a no name off brand but if you are trying to sell it at Colt prices there will be a problem. Maybe it is a “collector” thing but I said it before and I’ll say it again I am not paying a premium for stuff that isn’t marked accordingly. |
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Absence of markings/proof of provenance in regards to components = no reason to pay a premium, IMO.
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Quoted: There are some that are want specific markings in all the places, but I think it is more wanting some sort of marking to differentiate from other random manufacturers. You got what you got in a sealed plastic bag, in a Colt box from what I assume is a reputable dealer. It is safe to say you got a genuine Colt product even if all the markings aren’t there. Your happy with, you know what it is and all is good. Go to sell that in the secondary market and it is now up to the buyer to trust your word for what it is. You might be trustworthy but I don’t know that and let’s be honest, there is a lot of shady people out there trying to scam someone and make a buck. Hell, I see it on this forum in the EE all the time not to mention “dealers” that will do the same thing. It’s one thing if you have it priced the same as a no name off brand but if you are trying to sell it at Colt prices there will be a problem. Maybe it is a “collector” thing but I said it before and I’ll say it again I am not paying a premium for stuff that isn’t marked accordingly. View Quote Yea def a lot of scammers out selling fake "colt" products...I ordered "colt" charging handles from gb and as soon as I opened the package i knew they werent colt.They werent even decent they were the cheap 6061 and had different size roll pins, different latch and the spring was half as thick as a colt. the guy used the excuse of " colt doesnt mark everything" and thats the excuse these scammers use. I didnt expect it to be cage coded like colt CH have certain characteristics. Im hoping with the CZ takeover they will mark stuff like colt of the past |
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i have seen a handful over the past year that were not cage code or C marked. They came from RSR.
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Quoted: Fwiw Bartocci just released a new vid comparing the old LE series to the newer CR one View Quote After watching Bartocci's video I went back and looked at my 11.5 again, I only found one additional marking which was the M4 at the end of flat top behind the handguard ring, no F mark on the front sight but that's known now to be standard. The Colt BCG I got from AU had the C laser engraving but no other markings and the bolt had no markings whatsoever but did have the copper extractor spring. I guess this is what Bartocci was speaking about since they are not military contracts any longer no reason for the increase in cost to Colt to do the tests/markings, makes sense to me and I'm sure it does for the bean counters. |
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I’d that’s the case I’m Not sure it’s a wise choice for colt.. keeping separate assembly lines & assuring that parts don’t get mixed is expensive & risky...
And colt is known for grabbing parts here & there in order to fulfill the contracts... I still believe we’re assuming a lot of things.. 10+ years ago colt stopped marking the receivers with the usual proof marks in front of the ejection port.. does it mean that colt no longer test fires their guns? I don’t think so |
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Colt.
Just when a pattern is established, that pattern changes....... |
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The lack of markings on the uppers and bolts means they are not allowed to be sold to the military, so there is no guarantee that they are mil-spec or tdp. I don’t care if Colt outsources it as long as it has the markings that prove it is milspec. If it doesn’t have the markings, there are other companies I would go with for uppers, bcgs, etc
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Well, I ordered a new stripped upper from brownells this past weekend and it arrived today. Had the dot matrix Cage code and “m4” marking. Must vary from batch to batch, I’m guessing the batches without markings were outsourced to meet demand. Just my guess.
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It looks like Colt had a huge batch of great looking keyhole forged uppers released in late 2020 and early 2021 without military cage code, but the rifles I have seen in June have all been cage code, but square forged.
Both seem fine. |
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