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Posted: 1/27/2021 11:39:18 PM EDT
Ok, a lot of 6.5c UU’s being sold right now. A lot of the info is buried in the UU wait thread so let’s consolidate data here.
I ordered my 6.5c UU kit 12/8 and received it early Jan. I have had to go back and forth with LT a couple times due to Ar15 takedown pins being included vs ar10 pins. I now have the correct pins and the gun is together. I have a workup load with Berger 130 AR Hybrid’s on top of H4350. I also have some 140 match bullets on the way to test. If I run short on the heavier bullets I’ll build a load with the 123 eldx’s I have for my 6.5 Grendel. Here are my first observations about the gun and order in general. I opted for the LT build option because I don’t have an Ar10 reaction rod. Build quality is fantastic. They called me because.I had ordered the 13” hand guard. They just wanted to confirm I knew the gas block and tube would be exposed. I opted for the 15” and I am happy I did. As stated above, mine originally delivered with AR15 takedown pins. When I finally received the ar10 pins I hurried to assemble it. Oops, the spring for the rear takedown pin is too long to use with the set screw. This is different than the Ar15 assembly in that the takedown detent pin and spring are held in place via a set screw under the grip. No problem, I cut the spring at the level of the lower and screwed the set screw in place. Works great. If someone who has received an complete ar10 lpk can chime in as to whether LT supplies a shorter spring for the rear takedown I would love to know. I was hoping to keep the weight down because my hope was to take this gun on an AK caribou hunt. I weighed it without a scope, magazine or ammo and it was right at 9lb 4oz. With my gen 1 Vortex Viper PST 5-24 in an LT 204 mount it is right at 12 lb. not a lite gun but it’s life will mainly be a bench or ranch gun so perfect for my needs. My plans for loads will be the 123 eldm & eldx, 130 Berger AR Hybrid, 140 match Hornady, 140 eldm, 143 eldx and maybe some heavier bullets. I am a handloader first and shooter second so that explains the variety. I have been looking for either the Forester Ultra Micrometer or the RCBS match master dies. Unfortunately the are unobtainium currently. For now I am loading on a RCBS 2 die set. As I get into this I’ll update with photos, load data and accuracy reports. Please chime in here with your experiences and load data. Post questions and we will get them answered. Spey |
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I’m still waiting for mine. Looking forward to accuracy reports and load data. Do you have a way to measure velocity? What length is your barrel?
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I have a 22" 6.5UU on order since Sept.
For dies I have the redding comp set. I have lapua SR brass, cci 450 primers, 140 eld-m, and rl 16 and staball powders to try. I have a starting load to try using OBT and quickload. Until I get the upper this is as far as I can go. As for the spring, LaRue like everyone else uses milspec springs. Using the capture screw will require you to cut a few coil off the spring. I have a couple of lowers from different manufacturers with the screw and I have had to do that for all of them. I personally would rather have a milspec part I could get anywhere than a proprietary part. Eta, responding to the question above. I have a magnetospeed. |
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That is a pretty damn good shot group.
I opted for the 18" barrel I'll be interested to compare when I receive it. Ive been picking up 6.5CM brass for the past year at the range. Early 2020 it was left all over the place, now you can't find brass anywhere. Most of the pieces are large rifle primers, mixed with a few small. I have a die set on backorder. For the reloaders what powder and bullets are you using. I have a few jugs of Ramshot TAC that I use for .223 and 6.5 Grendel. Any load data and results would be very interesting to me. |
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Quoted: I’m still waiting for mine. Looking forward to accuracy reports and load data. Do you have a way to measure velocity? What length is your barrel? View Quote I purchased the 18” barrel. I use a magnetospeed for all my crony work. I forgot to mention, when you buy your rifle order the LT mags. They offer significantly more over all length than pmags. I’ll measure them tonight. |
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Quoted: That is a pretty damn good shot group. I opted for the 18" barrel I'll be interested to compare when I receive it. Ive been picking up 6.5CM brass for the past year at the range. Early 2020 it was left all over the place, now you can't find brass anywhere. Most of the pieces are large rifle primers, mixed with a few small. I have a die set on backorder. For the reloaders what powder and bullets are you using. I have a few jugs of Ramshot TAC that I use for .223 and 6.5 Grendel. Any load data and results would be very interesting to me. View Quote I have workup loads build for the Berger 130 AR Hybrid over H4350. I have Hornady 140gr match bullets inbound hopefully today. If they arrive I will do a work up with them as well. I will post my data when I have the crony info. If weather cooperates that will be this weekend. |
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H4350 seems to be the go to for 6.5CM. It isn't available for backorder at any of my usual sites. any recommendations? I didn't mean to turn this into a reloading thread.
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Reloading, accuracy, building its all good. There are a bunch of powders listed for 6.5c. I hear a lot of discussion about Varget 4451 and stabil.
I just ordered some Lapua brass and two types of scencar bullets to test. |
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Quoted: Will these uppers fit the PSA AR-10 lowers? Thanks, Red View Quote I am not familiar with the PSA lower. But, if the back of the lower, just in front of the threaded extension, is rounded that is the dpms pattern. If it is angled and flat that is M110 pattern. I just scrolled through the PSA ar10 lowers and they all look like the dpms pattern son not compatible with the M110 upper. |
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Quoted: Will these uppers fit the PSA AR-10 lowers? Thanks, Red View Quote No, but if your ordering the Upper kit it comes with everything you need to complete the Larue Lower. Well worth the $300. I ordered a lower on Jan 1st and got it less than two weeks later. Wait time might have increased a little bit since then. |
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within the first 50rnds. The group with the circle is 5 shots warcomp & 5 shots warcomp with blast shield. The other group is just 10 rnds warcomp. 18" UU. These are shot off a 4runner hood with sandbags and as fast as the crosshairs line up. I'm more than happy with these groups
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Quoted: Looking forward to your results. Hornady AG 140, bottom right is my 140eld handload https://i.imgur.com/dkUkarB.jpg Handload 140eld, h4350 https://i.imgur.com/N9zJyEu.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3NhAxgb.jpg Some additional groups with Berger 130’s are in the AR precision testing thread. View Quote If the AG ammo consistently groups like that I wouldn’t bother reloading. Here is where I am at for components: Star line, hornady and Lapua brass Berger 130 AR Hybrid, Hornady 140 match, Scencar 139, ScencarL 136 and Hornady 123 eldm Lots of powders and primers. With all the nerve damage I have accumulated I am not sure I am still a .5” shooter but I’ll give it my best. |
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Quoted: That is a pretty damn good shot group. I opted for the 18" barrel I'll be interested to compare when I receive it. Ive been picking up 6.5CM brass for the past year at the range. Early 2020 it was left all over the place, now you can't find brass anywhere. Most of the pieces are large rifle primers, mixed with a few small. I have a die set on backorder. For the reloaders what powder and bullets are you using. I have a few jugs of Ramshot TAC that I use for .223 and 6.5 Grendel. Any load data and results would be very interesting to me. View Quote Not bad, but it will do better, if I do my part. Might have had too much coffee that day. |
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I have a 22” barrel on mine. I’ve shot some nice groups with Hornady 140 ELDM. I have 200 rounds of the American Gunner that I still have to try.
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RL15 and RL16 are supposr to be good also.
Staball and RL16 are temp stable powders too |
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First rounds down range and I am pretty happy. Here are the load workups and targets.
New Starline Brass BR-2 Primer Berger 130 AR Hybrid Ogive Length 2.197" (.04 off lands) Hornady 1x Brass BR-2 Primer Hornady 140 OTM Ogive Length 2.227" (.02 off lands) Powder charges listed on the data sheet below: Synced on: 2021-01-30 11:59:30 Series 2021-01-30_11_59_30 Shots:37 Notes 130, 2.197 ogl, & 140, 2.227 ogl, Gr work up. 40 degrees. H4350, BR2 Min2426 Max2648 Avg2570 S-D56.1 ES222 Shot Speed 12573143 eldFactory 22525143 eldFactory 32598130 Hybrid41.3 42622130 Hybrid41.5 52613130 Hybrid41.7 62600130 Hybrid41.7 Average SD ES 72599130 Hybrid41.7 2,604 7.81 14 82638130 Hybrid41.9 92619130 Hybrid41.9 102600130 Hybrid41.9 112600130 Hybrid41.9 2,614 18.19 19 122630130 Hybrid42.1 132621130 Hybrid42.1 142619130 Hybrid42.1 152607130 Hybrid42.1 2,619 9.46 14 162635130 Hybrid42.3 172648130 Hybrid42.3 182626130 Hybrid42.3 192647130 Hybrid42.3 2,639 10.49 22 202477140 OTM39.7 212426140 OTM39.9 222461140 OTM40.1 232494140 OTM40.3 242502140 OTM40.5 252535140 OTM40.7 262498140 OTM40.9 272520140 OTM40.9 282522140 OTM40.9 2,513 13.32 24 292563140 OTM41.1 302542140 OTM41.1 312547140 OTM41.1 2,551 10.97 21 322569140 OTM41.3 332549140 OTM41.3 342544140 OTM41.3 2,554 13.23 25 352566140 OTM41.5 362598140 OTM41.5 372562140 OTM41.5 2,575 19.73 36 130 AR Hybrid Targets: Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File I am going to load 10 rounds @ 41.7 and 10 at 42.1 because I think I dropped the first shot in that group. 140 targets in next post. |
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140 OTM targets:
Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File I am definitely loading more of the 41.3gr to test. Over all I am very happy with the rifle. The bonus is that I took the scope of my Tobr for this workup. It was only .5” right with perfect elevation from the very first shot. |
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@Speyrod
Is this an 18” barrel? I’ll look back at my notes to see what BTO I’m running with the 130’s. I think I said I was going to send you that from our last IM but it slipped my mind. Also, definitely try the 140eld’s out sooner than later. They freaking hammer in my LT and BA barrels. |
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Quoted: @Speyrod Is this an 18” barrel? I’ll look back at my notes to see what BTO I’m running with the 130’s. I think I said I was going to send you that from our last IM but it slipped my mind. Also, definitely try the 140eld’s out sooner than later. They freaking hammer in my LT and BA barrels. View Quote Yes it is the 18”. I measured length to lands using the Hornady oal tool. The 140 eldm is currently unobtainium. I am hoping the Lapua Scencar and ScencarL’s will turn in some good numbers. The last load, 41.5, under the 140’s was starting to show ejector swipes so I don’t think I will go any further. If the 41.3 gr load shoots I’ll call it good there. |
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Anyone running sr lapua brass, what is your fire formed case volume?
ETA, here is data from 10 unfired cases: average volume 55.66, sd .19 and es of .3 (not bad) |
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As promised here is some more data.
Temp 45 degree Shot prone with bipod and rear bag at 100 yd 41.7 gr H4350 130 AR Hybrid BR2 primer 2.197” bto Star line 1x brass 2) 5 shot groups average .602 moa, 2,636fps SD 10.6 41.3 gr H4350 140 OTM Hornady BR2 primer 2.227” bto Hornady 2x brass 3) 5 shot groups average .8959 moa, 2,544 FPS SD 11.5 Target: Attached File Range: Attached File Takeaways: load more 130 AR Hybrids and shoot the MOA challenge. Shooting prone may not be possible any more. C6-C7 fusion and deteriorating C5-C6 makes it very painful. Upcoming: Lapua Scenar & Scenar L in new Lapua brass. Forgot to mention, the bottom groups were fubar due to my magnetospeed coming lose somewhere in there. Fortunately I didn’t shoot the bayonet but it was close. |
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Load workup for Lapua bullets:
Lapua Scenar L 136 gr 2.198 bto New Lapua Brass H4350 40.2-42gr BR4 primer 2,542-2,611 fps Lapua Scenar 139 gr 2.232 bto New Lapua Brass H4350 39.1-40.9gr BR4 primer 2,448-2,543 fps Attached File |
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Thanks for posting all of your load data and pictures. I am still waiting on my Creedmoor upper kit, but I got my optic in last week. I ordered the Tract Toric. Took it out to 1,000 with my Larue 6.5 Grendel. Pretty effortless. I was on the 8 MOA targets though. I like the scope a lot, I recommend it over the vortex Viper PST that I had for a while. Can't wait to put it on my Creedmoor when it comes in though.
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That’s what I was thinking. We purchased a 36” plate for shooting at 1mile plus, and it was pretty costly. Doubling that cost...
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Quoted: Thanks for posting all of your load data and pictures. I am still waiting on my Creedmoor upper kit, but I got my optic in last week. I ordered the Tract Toric. Took it out to 1,000 with my Larue 6.5 Grendel. Pretty effortless. I was on the 8 MOA targets though. I like the scope a lot, I recommend it over the vortex Viper PST that I had for a while. Can't wait to put it on my Creedmoor when it comes in though. View Quote There are some new players showing up in the scope market. I have heard some good reviews of a couple. I bought a Gen 2 Viper pst I found on sale for this rifle. If the poi stays consistent with my Tobr I will be able to move scopes around pretty easily. Just need LT to ship the 204 mount I ordered. I am only in the early stages of load development. I like to test around accuracy nodes before looking for speed. After I find my happy place with my existing bullets I’ll start moving up in hopes of finding an accuracy node near the top of the charge range. This gun is worth what ever wait you experience. I have been cleaning rifles for a long time and you get used to the feel of an accurate barrel. This is one of the smoothest I have ever had. Zero change in resistance from chamber to crown. I have 50 rounds through it so cleaned it today. Two wet patches and done. I love an easy to clean rifle. |
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Quoted: There are some new players showing up in the scope market. I have heard some good reviews of a couple. I bought a Gen 2 Viper pst I found on sale for this rifle. If the poi stays consistent with my Tobr I will be able to move scopes around pretty easily. Just need LT to ship the 204 mount I ordered. I am only in the early stages of load development. I like to test around accuracy nodes before looking for speed. After I find my happy place with my existing bullets I’ll start moving up in hopes of finding an accuracy node near the top of the charge range. This gun is worth what ever wait you experience. I have been cleaning rifles for a long time and you get used to the feel of an accurate barrel. This is one of the smoothest I have ever had. Zero change in resistance from chamber to crown. I have 50 rounds through it so cleaned it today. Two wet patches and done. I love an easy to clean rifle. View Quote @SpeyRod with that much experience I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bore snakes vs. patches. |
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Quoted: @SpeyRod with that much experience I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bore snakes vs. patches. View Quote I use bore snakes out of convenience. If I am doing a groundhog shoot I will run a bore snake just to clean carbon out. I use patch and rod for copper removal. Do bore snakes clean as well as patch and rod? I have never seen anything to suggest they do. I would love to hear about any testing that has been done. And just like that my scope mount shipped from LT. |
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I have always been a handloader who didn’t chase speed. But with the 136gr Scenar L I was hoping I could find a little more speed and maintain accuracy. I loaded up 6 rounds from 42-43grains in new Lapua brass. Well I found the speed and did maintain the accuracy. But does anyone see a growing problem?
Attached File |
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Ring at the base?
How do the primers look? Primers look flat almost. I'm gonna assume that you have the small firing pin bolt. |
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If you want I can run the data through QL for pres estimate. Just need powder type.and weight, velocity at muzzle, and fired case volume.
Eta, forgot I need barrel length ( measure it with a cleaning rod), and coal |
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Maybe it’s just the angle/picture, but the shoulders look a bit odd for the two cases on the right. It also looks like there’s some heavy extractor marks.
42-43 seems pretty hot for a 136, but I don’t know the bearing surface of that projectile. I run 41.1-41.5gr H4350 w/ 140’s and 42.2gr with 130’s in hornady brass. I would think Lapua would be a bit thicker with less case capacity. |
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Definite case head separation eminent on the last three cases. The extractor marks have been there from the start of load workup for all loads. With a new bolt, fresh cut extractor and a strong spring I am not surprised by that. But the extractor marks were getting pretty heavy on the last few rounds.
In 25 years of loading I have never pushed any load I have worked up this far. I just find it interesting and thought some would be interested in seeing the case head separation in progress. I have never actually seen it. I think I will pull the Dremel out and cut the last case in half. The others are trashed. @ws-6 I’ll get you the info. Would be very interesting to see what the pressures look like. Data: Case capacity 51.09 gr (New Brass) H4350 42, 42.2, 42.4, 42.6, 42.8, 43 (note: do not use these charges! They are over pressure!) for anyone who might be thinking these will work cause they are on the internet. They won’t! You will blow yourself up and your neighbors as well! Hope that covers it.... 2651, 2691, 2702, 2706, 2712, 2716 136 gr Scenar L 18” Barrel with Tranquilo. I’ll try to get the fired volume this evening. @mettee primers look fine, moderate ejector swipe. Attached File |
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SRP brass to boot. Yeah those primers look great weirdly enough. I would think for certain that pressure signs would show in the primers first before the case heads.
Very interesting. |
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Apologies if the “hot” comment came across the wrong way.
It’ll be interesting to see them cut open. Do you store the rounds tip down in the ammo box before or after shooting? I’ve noticed similar marks on cases due to minute amounts of lube that were on the case and it was “polished” out where it contacted the top of the partition in the ammo box. |
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Quoted: Apologies if the “hot” comment came across the wrong way. It’ll be interesting to see them cut open. Do you store the rounds tip down in the ammo box before or after shooting? I’ve noticed similar marks on cases due to minute amounts of lube that were on the case and it was “polished” out where it contacted the top of the partition in the ammo box. View Quote They are stored tip up. The fracture on the hottest load is enough to catch a fingernail. I’ll try to remember to cut one open this weekend. They are in the reject pile now. Don’t worry about your comments. I don’t offend easily and I didn’t think twice about your comment. You were right... FWIW, the closest data I could fin was for a 135 Atip off the Hodgdon site. Max load listed there was 43.2gr. |
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thanks for replying to your own thread, i forgot about doing the QL tonight
Assuming these are the 136g Lapua Scenar GB546 (it is the profile QL had alread) so doing the burn rate adjustment (from .5130 to .5390) i got the loads to match up. this isn't uncommon to do if you have never used QL used a standard COAL of 2.813. if you did something else, let me know and i will re-run this. gr-----vel-----est pressure---fill volume 42.0 2651 64126 psi 102.7% 42.2 2691 67575 psi 103.2% 42.4 2702 68372 psi 103.7% 42.6 2706 68644 psi 104.2% 42.8 2715 69410 psi 104.7% 43.0 2716 69392 psi 105.1% what is odd is that you got 51.09 for your unfired case volume. i checked 2 boxes and got 51.49 using my case volume, i got the following on the last set, 68061 psi. either way, SAAMI spec is 62,000 psi so all of these are above it. that small of case volume (over 100%) probably would be hard to tell. it isn't case capacity but case-bullet depth. QL says with your case capacity, 40.8 is 100% OBT table says node should be around .989ms so 41.6 should be it. pressure is 62553 psi at 2630 fps |
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Quoted: I wonder what the bearing surface is on the atip vs the 136 View Quote found this: Hornady 6.5mm 135gr A-Tip OAL: 1.380” Bearing surface: 0.408” Aluminum tip: 0.155” Hornady 6.5mm 153gr A-Tip: OAL: 1.500” Bearing surface: 0.530” Aluminum tip: 0.155” can't find the lapua info but the bullet OAL is 1.355 |
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Quoted: thanks for replying to your own thread, i forgot about doing the QL tonight Assuming these are the 136g Lapua Scenar GB546 (it is the profile QL had alread) so doing the burn rate adjustment (from .5130 to .5390) i got the loads to match up. this isn't uncommon to do if you have never used QL used a standard COAL of 2.813. if you did something else, let me know and i will re-run this. gr-----vel-----est pressure---fill volume 42.0 2651 64126 psi 102.7% 42.2 2691 67575 psi 103.2% 42.4 2702 68372 psi 103.7% 42.6 2706 68644 psi 104.2% 42.8 2715 69410 psi 104.7% 43.0 2716 69392 psi 105.1% what is odd is that you got 51.09 for your unfired case volume. i checked 2 boxes and got 51.49 using my case volume, i got the following on the last set, 68061 psi. either way, SAAMI spec is 62,000 psi so all of these are above it. that small of case volume (over 100%) probably would be hard to tell. it isn't case capacity but case-bullet depth. QL says with your case capacity, 40.8 is 100% OBT table says node should be around .989ms so 41.6 should be it. pressure is 62553 psi at 2630 fps View Quote Very interesting, thanks. The accuracy/speed node I found was |
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@ws-6 I’ll work on getting your fired capacity tomorrow, hopefully.
My goal for this gun is to be a top notch 600yd rifle that will take me to 1,000 +. So I took it out to 300 for the first time to see how it groups. Here are the results: 130 AR Hybrid, 41.7 H4350, BR4, star line, 2.197” bto 300 yds 3.5” adjust from 100 Attached File 136 Scenar L, 41.6 H4350, BR4, Lapua, 2.198 bto, 3.75” from 100 (think the flier was me) Attached File 140 OTM, 41.3 H4350, BR4, Hornady, 2.229 bto, 3.75” from 100 (this one surprised me) Attached File Tomorrow I am going to try and get groups at 600yds. |
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600 yd targets. 15-20 mph from 2 with swirling winds closer to the target. 2 groups per target with minor adjustments between groups.
130 Berger Attached File 136 Scenar L Attached File |
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@ws-6 here are the fired small primer Lapua volumes for 5 cases:
52.6 52.5 52.5 52.8 52.6 Average 52.6 |
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