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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:36:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I think it’s been a long time coming, from what I heard...or at least not a surprise. It’s been in the news a lot. Very unfortunate.
https://loudounnow.com/2020/12/28/whites-ferry-closes-after-legal-dispute/?utm_source=Loudoun+Now+Newsroom&utm_campaign=50cfae4ebe-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_12_28_08_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1ec2f141cc-50cfae4ebe-124164713 |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:07:25 PM EDT
[#2]
I used that ferry for years on weekends and always wondering if they ferry operators owned the land on both sides. So they don't? And they took the liberty to modify the VA landing without permission, violating the terms of their license? And then continued to use it after the VA landowner terminated that license for breach of agreement? Yeah, I don't see how they're not fucked...unless big govt comes along and just steals the land and lets them use it for free.
I suppose I'd be pretty pissed if I was the VA land owner. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:22:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used that ferry for years on weekends and always wondering if they ferry operators owned the land on both sides. So they don't? And they took the liberty to modify the VA landing without permission, violating the terms of their license? And then continued to use it after the VA landowner terminated that license for breach of agreement? Yeah, I don't see how they're not fucked...unless big govt comes along and just steals the land and lets them use it for free. I suppose I'd be pretty pissed if I was the VA land owner. From what I read, the only modification the ferry company made was to replace the timber retaining wall with a concrete one. The change from a wooden retaining wall to a concrete one certainly doesn't affect the operation of the farm, so I don't see what the problem is. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:34:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Anyone know if DOT/VDOT provided any funding? A public transportationproject like this in a waterway has a lot gov involvement.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 10:35:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I read, the only modification the ferry company made was to replace the timber retaining wall with a concrete one. The change from a wooden retaining wall to a concrete one certainly doesn't affect the operation of the farm, so I don't see what the problem is. The spirit of it I would imagine. You have an agreement saying the ferry operator can't perform any construction without the landowner's permission and they do it regardless, without seeking permission. At best, it's rude/inconsiderate. At worst, it may imply the ferry operator thinks they are no longer bound by the terms of the agreement and can do whatever they want to that land. The landowner might even be concerned the ferry operator could eventually pursue adverse possession, having operated on that land for decades and can now claim making improvements. Or the landowner didn't like the agreement/traffic and was looking for any excuse to get out of it, and the ferry operator was dumb enough to give them that excuse. TL;DR: When you have an agreement that says no construction without asking, ask. 
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Posted: 12/28/2020 10:42:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Wonder what a Federal court would think about its impact on interstate commerce?
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Posted: 12/28/2020 10:59:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder what a Federal court would think about its impact on interstate commerce? It's a private ferry and there are other ways across the Potomac. What I wonder is to what extent the folks here, the supposed bastion of freedom and individual rights, will support a private landowner's right to do what they want with their land and deal with a non-complaint tenant...as opposed to calling for government involvement to force the landowner to allow use of their land or even seize the land using eminent domain, as people are calling for on the ferry's Facebook page. Do we walk the walk...or does that go out the window if our commute gets worse?  You talk the talk, do you walk the walk ? |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 11:33:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I read, the only modification the ferry company made was to replace the timber retaining wall with a concrete one. The change from a wooden retaining wall to a concrete one certainly doesn't affect the operation of the farm, so I don't see what the problem is. Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I read, the only modification the ferry company made was to replace the timber retaining wall with a concrete one. The change from a wooden retaining wall to a concrete one certainly doesn't affect the operation of the farm, so I don't see what the problem is. Have video/photos of the mitigation? The dispute that led to the 2009 lawsuit filed by the Rockland Farm owners arose in May 2004, when ferry operators demolished a wooden retaining wall that was built in 1982 and was partially destroyed by Hurricane Isabel in 2003. At some point infrastructure integrity and environmental liability are obligatory. How 250 yrs of interstate transport service doesn't set a precedent here is mind boggling. https://loudounnow.com/2020/12/28/after-decade-long-legal-battle-whites-ferry-closes/ |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 12:35:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have video/photos of the mitigation? At some point infrastructure integrity and environmental liability are obligatory. How 250 yrs of interstate transport service doesn't set a precedent here is mind boggling. https://loudounnow.com/2020/12/28/after-decade-long-legal-battle-whites-ferry-closes/ Good article. Gets much more in depth. |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 3:58:19 PM EDT
[#10]
The Poolesville/MD fb groups all think that is a play by VA to force a bridge crossing
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Posted: 12/29/2020 5:35:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Poolesville/MD fb groups all think that is a play by VA to force a bridge crossing That's retarded. But yes, another crossing is needed. |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 8:51:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Maryland will never permit a bridge between the American Legion Bridge and Leesburg. The MD Department of Transportation would be the builder/owner of any such bridge. The MD DOT is also the owner/operator of the Baltimore airport. A bridge west of the AL bridge would make it too easy for Montgomery County folks to get to Dulles Airport, and would cost the MD DOT a ton of money.
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Posted: 12/29/2020 9:15:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maryland will never permit a bridge between the American Legion Bridge and Leesburg. The MD Department of Transportation would be the builder/owner of any such bridge. The MD DOT is also the owner/operator of the Baltimore airport. A bridge west of the AL bridge would make it too easy for Montgomery County folks to get to Dulles Airport, and would cost the MD DOT a ton of money. Yup |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 10:41:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maryland will never permit a bridge between the American Legion Bridge and Leesburg. The MD Department of Transportation would be the builder/owner of any such bridge. The MD DOT is also the owner/operator of the Baltimore airport. A bridge west of the AL bridge would make it too easy for Montgomery County folks to get to Dulles Airport, and would cost the MD DOT a ton of money. And for this we should be eternally grateful to Maryland and Montgomery County. Building another bridge would just promote further development in Leesburg and areas further west, spreading D voters further and further into that part of our state. We should be doing everything we can to discourage further growth in our state. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 1:12:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maryland will never permit a bridge between the American Legion Bridge and Leesburg. The MD Department of Transportation would be the builder/owner of any such bridge. The MD DOT is also the owner/operator of the Baltimore airport. A bridge west of the AL bridge would make it too easy for Montgomery County folks to get to Dulles Airport, and would cost the MD DOT a ton of money. You are correct that MD would never pay for that. MD has been quite spiteful to VA; 20 yrs ago they made VA move the drinking surface intakes that were further in the Potomac River to near the bank where the water quality is not as good and treatment requirements increase......simply b/c royalty deeded them the river and they can. That said, an interstate bridge would be a DOT lead agency project, if both states wanted it, lots of Fed $ would fund it. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 12:27:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Extending 28 or Fairfax County Parkway to a Potomac crossing would make the most sense from an infrastructure standpoint.
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Posted: 1/1/2021 4:53:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder what a Federal court would think about its impact on interstate commerce? Who cares? It’s private land. There are other paths across the creek, such as the bridge at point of rocks, so commerce can still be conducted. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:34:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Extending 28 or Fairfax County Parkway to a Potomac crossing would make the most sense from an infrastructure standpoint. And also from a development standpoint. Think strip malls and high density low income housing on both sides. Think both sides don't want the increase in the tax base? This whole issue reminds me of how Claude Moore Colonial Farm was lost. It began with an issue over a lease agreement; park service wanted a short extension, the private foundation that ran it wanted a longer term so that they could plan improvements with certainty that they would still have use of the land in the near future. The Park Service began harassing the people on site with bogus "inspections" like demanding to know how many fire extinguishers were in the maintenance shop, how often they were changed and what brand they were. A guy I know who worked and lived there told me he thought that developers and the county were the reason for the harassment. Looks like he was right. They lost the lease after 48 years and last I heard, that land is getting developed. More McMansions on the way. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 9:27:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Extending 28 or Fairfax County Parkway to a Potomac crossing would make the most sense from an infrastructure standpoint. IIRC, the leading contender in the early 2000's was to extend the FFX county parkway through where the Trump golf course is now, and link it up to Seneca Rd on the MD side around C&O Lock 24. Push back was the historical sites around the dam and patrons of the golf courses on both sides of the river. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 9:43:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Actually, a bridge at the site where Edwards Ferry used to be would be a pretty good idea.
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