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Posted: 6/4/2021 1:48:56 PM EDT
In Arizona, we still need a concealed carry permit to carry in bars or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption or in city parks because those statutes were written before constitutional carry was passed and specifically require an AZ permit to carry in those places. Does Texas statute have similar situations?
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 2:04:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2021 2:05:48 PM EDT by TomB7777]
Originally Posted By chopinbloc:
In Arizona, we still need a concealed carry permit to carry in bars or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption or in city parks because those statutes were written before constitutional carry was passed and specifically require an AZ permit to carry in those places. Does Texas statute have similar situations?
View Quote


FEDERAL LAW AND GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES
And this brings us to federal law. Isn’t there a prohibition about carrying in a Gun-Free School Zone? The Federal Gun-Free School Zones law prohibits individuals from knowingly possessing a firearm that has moved through interstate commerce (which is virtually all firearms) in or on the grounds or within 1,000 feet of a public, parochial, or private school, unless an exception applies. The most common exceptions to the Federal Gun-Free School Zones laws in Texas are:

Living within 1,000 feet of a school, so long as the person is not prohibited from possessing a firearm on their private property;
Being a Texas LTC holder. Note this does not apply to Texas residents who hold a non-resident license or handgun permit from another state; or
Carrying a firearm that is securely locked. This is a firearm that is unloaded and carried in a locked case or other type of locked container, such as a glove box or trunk.
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 2:09:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chopinbloc:
In Arizona, we still need a concealed carry permit to carry in bars or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption or in city parks because those statutes were written before constitutional carry was passed and specifically require an AZ permit to carry in those places. Does Texas statute have similar situations?
View Quote


As in Arizona, the federal Gun Free School Zones Act prohibits firearms within a thousand feet of a school.  One of the exemptions is if you're licensed by the state in which the school zone is located.  Although I think prosecution for this is unlikely, legally permitless carry doesn't overcome this prohibition in Arizona or Texas (or any other state).

I have to re-read the way things have changed on the alcohol related business front.  I know others in the HTF have read up on that part, but I haven't, so I won't speak to it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 2:16:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 2:23:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2021 12:46:36 AM EDT by DonofKalifornia]
The 51% still stays so not carrying in bars, however the TABC signs that off premises and restaurants have all go away. So a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as they are not 51% are legal to carry in even without a LTC.

ETA. If you are a foster parent you would need a LTC to carry a gun, except for in your home or vehicle.
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 6:42:43 PM EDT
I am reading through the bill now and these are the items that stand out to me

1. A person convicted of UCW (PC 46.02) before 09/01/21 can have the conviction expunged

2. DPS must post a free firearm safety and handling course online

3. Foster parents no longer need a LTC to car carry with the child in the vehicle

4. Employers can still restrict carry on the premises (premises now defined in 46.03)

5. Local governments cannot restrict any lawful handgun carry

6. Criminal Trespass, 30.05, allows business and other private property owners to prohibit non-licensed carry by posting a sign similar to 30.06 and .07, or giving other written or verbal notice.

7. 30.06 and 30.07 still remain for licensed carry

8. The main law that made an LTC necessary, 46.02 has changed.  Now it prohibits the carry of a handgun only for persons under 21 or that have been convicted of certain offenses in the last 5 years; assault by contact, deadly conduct, terrorist threat, disorderly conduct-discharging or displaying a firearm in manner calculated to cause alarm.

    Exceptions still exist for being on your own property or property under your control, or e or over or is licensed and the handgun is carried in a holster (the requirement for it to be a belt or shoulder holster is stricken) . Also illegal if you are engaged in criminal activity other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating. Also illegal if you are prohibited by law from possessing a firearm.

Interesting to me, the prohibition about being a member of a criminal street gang making it illegal is stricken from 46.02 and added to 46.04

It is also an offense it the handgun is intentionally displayed in plain view and not in a holster.

It is also an offense to carry while intoxicated if not on your own property or property you control, or inside of or enroute to a motor vehicle or watercraft you own or that is under your control, and

9.  here is a new one......  it is not illegal to carry on the property or vehicle of another if you have the owners consent

10. Section 46.03 is expanded and now prohibits licensed and non-licensed carry at;  51% locations;  premises where HS, Collegiate or Professional Sporting Events or interscholastic events are taking place (unless weapon used in the event); correctional facilities; civil commitment facilities; hospitals without written permission; mental hospital without written permission; amusement parks; meetings of government entities if notice is given.

The old portions of 46.03 still apply.

Non concealed handguns of LTC holders are prohibited at public and private institutes of higher education to include parking lots, walkways, etc., any carry prohibited if 30.06 notice is given.  It appears that non-license holders get no college carry exception.


11. 46.15 is the section that gives general exceptions to other laws in chapter 46.  It changed by including meetings of government entities to situations the exceptions  in 46.15 apply

12.  It makes it a defense under 46.03 to carry a handgun on a premises or other property where carrying a weapon is prohibited if you personally received notice that carry was prohibited and then you immediately departed. That defense does not apply if you were given notice by a sign posted at each entrance or if you knew that carry was prohibited.  

13. If you are a license holder it is not an offense under 46.03 to carry  at these places if you were not given notice under 30.06 or 30.07; 51% locations; hospitals; amusement parks; college sporting events

14.  All of 46.035 is repealed.

 
I think I covered most of it.  Open to corrections or anything I missed.
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 7:00:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2021 7:02:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:


That is an awesome summary! Thank you sir!
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 11:31:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2021 10:56:31 AM EDT by ARandomClaymore]
@txinvestigator

What, if any impact does #10 (Amusement Parks) have for the State Fair of Texas Fairgrounds?

Not the Cotton Bowl within, that's crystal clear.
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 1:07:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2021 5:05:57 PM EDT by txinvestigator]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARandomClaymore:
@txinvestigator

What, if any impact does #10 (Amusement Parks) have for the Stae Fair of Texas Fairgrounds?

Not the Cotton Bowl within, that's crystal clear.
View Quote


None.  The precious definition of Amusement Park is in 46.03, and Fair Park does not meet the definition. It appears that Fair Park will be legal for non-LTC holders as well.  

Hope that is what you are asking.
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 1:54:19 PM EDT
Permitless Carry at State Fair, that will be fun.
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 3:25:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 10:56:13 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By txinvestigator:


None.  The precious definition of Amusement Park is in 46.03, and Fair Park does not meet the definition. It appears that Fair Park will be legal for non-LTC holders as well.  

Hope that is what you are asking.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By txinvestigator:
Originally Posted By ARandomClaymore:
@txinvestigator

What, if any impact does #10 (Amusement Parks) have for the State Fair of Texas Fairgrounds?

Not the Cotton Bowl within, that's crystal clear.


None.  The precious definition of Amusement Park is in 46.03, and Fair Park does not meet the definition. It appears that Fair Park will be legal for non-LTC holders as well.  

Hope that is what you are asking.


That answers my question in full. Thank you for getting back with me.
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 2:09:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Permitless Carry at State Fair, that will be fun.
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Yet knives will still be banned
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 3:29:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoeThompson:
Yet knives will still be banned
View Quote


In order to solve the "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 5:19:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mojo:


 +1.
 If there's no changes in txinvestigator's post, I can either post a thread to his credit about this summary, tack and lock....Or txinvestigator can do so.
View Quote

Feel free to do with it whatever best serves the people here. ;)
Link Posted: 6/6/2021 11:51:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2021 11:52:23 PM EDT by David0858]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
The 51% still stays so not carrying in bars, however the TABC signs that off premises and restaurants have all go away. So a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as they are not 51% are legal to carry in even without a LTC.

ETA. If you are a foster parent you would need a LTC to carry a gun.
View Quote


Those are the one's in the windows of all the convenience stores that sell beer?
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 12:37:40 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By David0858:


Those are the one's in the windows of all the convenience stores that sell beer?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By David0858:
Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
The 51% still stays so not carrying in bars, however the TABC signs that off premises and restaurants have all go away. So a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as they are not 51% are legal to carry in even without a LTC.

ETA. If you are a foster parent you would need a LTC to carry a gun, except for in your home or vehicle.


Those are the one's in the windows of all the convenience stores that sell beer?


Yep!
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 3:29:25 AM EDT
6. Criminal Trespass, 30.05, allows business and other private property owners to prohibit non-licensed carry by posting a sign similar to 30.06 and .07, or giving other written or verbal notice

So if a business has a 30.06 & 30.07 but haven’t put up a 30.05 yet does that mean LTC holders are prohibited from carrying there but unlicensed people can?

Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:06:18 PM EDT
What are the rules for non-USA citizens?

I assume if you're an illegal, you can't CC.

How about for tourists on a tourist visa or visa waiver?  

And for those on a work visa, I would think you can, as those people can buy a firearm if they also have a hunting license.
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:15:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1stID:
What are the rules for non-USA citizens?

I assume if you're an illegal, you can't CC.

How about for tourists on a tourist visa or visa waiver?  

And for those on a work visa, I would think you can, as those people can buy a firearm if they also have a hunting license.
View Quote


Well most cannot possess a firearm, so they are SOL.
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:27:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Doodlebug:
6. Criminal Trespass, 30.05, allows business and other private property owners to prohibit non-licensed carry by posting a sign similar to 30.06 and .07, or giving other written or verbal notice

So if a business has a 30.06 & 30.07 but haven’t put up a 30.05 yet does that mean LTC holders are prohibited from carrying there but unlicensed people can?

View Quote


I think the 30.05 signs will be up before 9/1. Before 9/1 the TABC signs are in effect at most stores like HEB or Walmart, where unlicensed carry is a felony.
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:27:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2021 5:29:30 PM EDT by 1stID]
But if they're here on a work visa, and have a hunting license, they can buy a firearm, under some older provision of the US allowing foreign hunters to come into the country to hunt and needing to buy a gun here to avoid the hassle of international transport of firearms.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-aliens-legally-united-states-purchase-firearms

So is it a matter that if they've been able to buy a firearm, as above, then they can CC as long as they don't fall into the categories of the prohibited persons listed in the CC bill?
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:28:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 1stID:
What are the rules for non-USA citizens?

I assume if you're an illegal, you can't CC.
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Originally Posted By 1stID:
What are the rules for non-USA citizens?

I assume if you're an illegal, you can't CC.


Can't even possess a firearm.  8 USC 922(g):  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922


How about for tourists on a tourist visa or visa waiver?  

And for those on a work visa, I would think you can, as those people can buy a firearm if they also have a hunting license.


https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/nonimmigrant-aliens
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:33:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:


Can't even possess a firearm.  8 USC 922(g):  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922




https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/nonimmigrant-aliens
View Quote



OK, so illegals no, tourists no.

But for those here on a work visa, like a lot of guys I know in the oil business, it looks OK, since they can buy a gun if they also obtain a hunting license (or as John Lurch Kerry slurred "One of dem dar huntin' licenses").

If they were given a gun, or bough it from a private citizen, they would not even need that.


Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:49:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:


I think the 30.05 signs will be up before 9/1. Before 9/1 the TABC signs are in effect at most stores like HEB or Walmart, where unlicensed carry is a felony.
View Quote


I’m just wondering what if. Lots of dickhead mom and pop places around here with 30.06 might not be aware of the new signage.
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:56:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 1stID:



OK, so illegals no, tourists no.

But for those here on a work visa, like a lot of guys I know in the oil business, it looks OK, since they can buy a gun if they also obtain a hunting license (or as John Lurch Kerry slurred "One of dem dar huntin' licenses").

If they were given a gun, or bough it from a private citizen, they would not even need that.


View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By 1stID:
Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:


Can't even possess a firearm.  8 USC 922(g):  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922




https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/nonimmigrant-aliens



OK, so illegals no, tourists no.

But for those here on a work visa, like a lot of guys I know in the oil business, it looks OK, since they can buy a gun if they also obtain a hunting license (or as John Lurch Kerry slurred "One of dem dar huntin' licenses").

If they were given a gun, or bough it from a private citizen, they would not even need that.




Tourist and work visa are both non-immigrant visas.  The important part is that they have a hunting license, have a waiver, or were admitted specifically for hunting or sporting purposes (like to compete in shooting competitions).  Possessing a gun without falling under one of the exemptions is a felony, even if the gun was given to them or purchased from a private citizen (and that gift or sale is also a felony, if done knowingly).
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 5:59:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2021 6:19:46 PM EDT by 1stID]
Good info, thanks.


So in plowing through the ATF Q&A it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong):

A tourist or person here on a work visa can posses a firearm if they have a hunting license, the idea being that a foreigner can come to the USA to hunt, and can either bring their own firearm, or borrow one:

An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit,


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

So, if they are given or loaned a firearm, could they CC in Texas?  

And, if they have established residency in a state, as they would if they had a work visa, they can also buy a firearm:

A nonimmigrant alien who has established residency in a state may purchase and take possession of a firearm from an unlicensed person, provided the buyer and seller are residents of the same state, and no other state or local law prohibits the transaction. A nonimmigrant alien with residency in a state may purchase a firearm from a licensee, provided the sale complies with all applicable laws and regulations.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa-and

These folks should have no issues to CC - they can buy a gun, and as long as they don't fall into the 5 or so other categories who can't CC under 1927, they should be able to CC after 1 Sep, correct?
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 9:37:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Doodlebug:
6. Criminal Trespass, 30.05, allows business and other private property owners to prohibit non-licensed carry by posting a sign similar to 30.06 and .07, or giving other written or verbal notice

So if a business has a 30.06 & 30.07 but haven’t put up a 30.05 yet does that mean LTC holders are prohibited from carrying there but unlicensed people can?

View Quote


Not a lawyer, but it appears that way
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 10:15:32 PM EDT
If you guys want all the down in the weeds details, Texas Law Shield just released their manual on Texas Constitutional Carry today. Probably your best source on CC since they are real attorneys (good attorneys too) specializing in firearm laws.

It was free to all members, if not a member ask them if you can buy a copy to download.
Link Posted: 6/7/2021 11:16:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1stID:
Good info, thanks.


So in plowing through the ATF Q&A it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong):

A tourist or person here on a work visa can posses a firearm if they have a hunting license, the idea being that a foreigner can come to the USA to hunt, and can either bring their own firearm, or borrow one:

An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit,


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

So, if they are given or loaned a firearm, could they CC in Texas?  

And, if they have established residency in a state, as they would if they had a work visa, they can also buy a firearm:

A nonimmigrant alien who has established residency in a state may purchase and take possession of a firearm from an unlicensed person, provided the buyer and seller are residents of the same state, and no other state or local law prohibits the transaction. A nonimmigrant alien with residency in a state may purchase a firearm from a licensee, provided the sale complies with all applicable laws and regulations.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa-and

These folks should have no issues to CC - they can buy a gun, and as long as they don't fall into the 5 or so other categories who can't CC under 1927, they should be able to CC after 1 Sep, correct?
View Quote

Only if they fall under one of the exemptions in 922(y), right?  So, practically speaking, having a hunting license?  I guess maybe?  I've never seen any case law about carrying for self defense, for example, totally unrelated to hunting, but the letter of the law seems to grant the exemption if they have a hunting license.  I absolutely don't think that's the intent of the law, though...  I wonder if we have any attorneys here that can research that?  It's an interesting question, for sure.
Link Posted: 6/8/2021 2:12:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:

Only if they fall under one of the exemptions in 922(y), right?  So, practically speaking, having a hunting license?  I guess maybe?  I've never seen any case law about carrying for self defense, for example, totally unrelated to hunting, but the letter of the law seems to grant the exemption if they have a hunting license.  I absolutely don't think that's the intent of the law, though...  I wonder if we have any attorneys here that can research that?  It's an interesting question, for sure.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:
Originally Posted By 1stID:
Good info, thanks.


So in plowing through the ATF Q&A it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong):

A tourist or person here on a work visa can posses a firearm if they have a hunting license, the idea being that a foreigner can come to the USA to hunt, and can either bring their own firearm, or borrow one:

An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit,


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

So, if they are given or loaned a firearm, could they CC in Texas?  

And, if they have established residency in a state, as they would if they had a work visa, they can also buy a firearm:

A nonimmigrant alien who has established residency in a state may purchase and take possession of a firearm from an unlicensed person, provided the buyer and seller are residents of the same state, and no other state or local law prohibits the transaction. A nonimmigrant alien with residency in a state may purchase a firearm from a licensee, provided the sale complies with all applicable laws and regulations.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonimmigrant-alien-who-has-been-admitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa-and

These folks should have no issues to CC - they can buy a gun, and as long as they don't fall into the 5 or so other categories who can't CC under 1927, they should be able to CC after 1 Sep, correct?

Only if they fall under one of the exemptions in 922(y), right?  So, practically speaking, having a hunting license?  I guess maybe?  I've never seen any case law about carrying for self defense, for example, totally unrelated to hunting, but the letter of the law seems to grant the exemption if they have a hunting license.  I absolutely don't think that's the intent of the law, though...  I wonder if we have any attorneys here that can research that?  It's an interesting question, for sure.

ATF doesn't regulate the licensed carry of firearms. ATF regs clearly allow a person lawfully residing in the US on a nonimmigrant visa to purchase and possess a firearm if they meet an exception....the most common being a Texas Hunting License.

Since they lawfully reside in Texas, they also qualify to hold a Texas LTC.  I do 3-5 transfers a month to nonimmigrants with Texas Hunting License AND who holds a Texas LTC.
Link Posted: 6/8/2021 2:40:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2021 4:30:23 PM EDT by RenegadeX]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
If you guys want all the down in the weeds details, Texas Law Shield just released their manual on Texas Constitutional Carry today. Probably your best source on CC since they are real attorneys (good attorneys too) specializing in firearm laws.

It was free to all members, if not a member ask them if you can buy a copy to download.
View Quote


Here it is for free...

https://cdn.brandfolder.io/5Z10RK5F/at/3grj768k34x5pqmmvhpc85c/TXCC-Guide-Single-Pg-Digital.pdf

We gave up True Constitutional Carry for all guns except handguns to get Permitless Carry for handguns.
Link Posted: 6/10/2021 9:49:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Here it is for free...

https://cdn.brandfolder.io/5Z10RK5F/at/3grj768k34x5pqmmvhpc85c/TXCC-Guide-Single-Pg-Digital.pdf

We gave up True Constitutional Carry for all guns except handguns to get Permitless Carry for handguns.
View Quote



Handy resource, thanks. What exactly is True Constitutional Carry? I've not heard of this before, would like to understand.
Link Posted: 6/10/2021 10:07:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2021 10:10:21 AM EDT by DonofKalifornia]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tone_suk1:



Handy resource, thanks. What exactly is True Constitutional Carry? I've not heard of this before, would like to understand.
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Originally Posted By tone_suk1:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Here it is for free...

https://cdn.brandfolder.io/5Z10RK5F/at/3grj768k34x5pqmmvhpc85c/TXCC-Guide-Single-Pg-Digital.pdf

We gave up True Constitutional Carry for all guns except handguns to get Permitless Carry for handguns.



Handy resource, thanks. What exactly is True Constitutional Carry? I've not heard of this before, would like to understand.


True Constitutional Carry is that if you can legally own a gun, you can carry it. The Senate added a few amendments that if you have a few select misdemeanors, you would have no problems buying a gun, but you can not carry under HB 1927.

There is also the 18-20 issue too, since you can legally own a handgun (but cannot buy from a FFL), if you are 18-20 you should be able to carry.
Link Posted: 6/10/2021 11:15:30 AM EDT
Has the question of open carry been addressed in 1927?

I thought it would allow open and concealed carry?
Link Posted: 6/10/2021 11:58:53 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tone_suk1:
Handy resource, thanks. What exactly is True Constitutional Carry? I've not heard of this before, would like to understand.
View Quote


What Don wrote +

No special signs or places were certain firearms are banned. Right now you can pretty much carry a anything but a handgun anywhere, any method, except the few places listed in the PC or FedLaw. There are no signs that specifically target those guns. Rifle, Machine Gun, does not matter. Carry as you want. That ends 8/31.


We need to fight to get this back, we got a lot back after CHL was passed, we can do it here too.
Link Posted: 6/10/2021 12:31:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By onibaba:
Has the question of open carry been addressed in 1927?

I thought it would allow open and concealed carry?
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Both open and concealed are legal with HB 1927
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 10:35:02 AM EDT
Doesnt matter what pro 2 a law is passed,  a simple sign at the door can restrict your rights.
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 11:27:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Doesnt matter what pro 2 a law is passed,  a simple sign at the door can restrict your rights.
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The Second Amendment does not give you the right to carry a firearm on someone else's property any more than the First Amendment gives you the right to argue with the pastor at Sunday mornings services.

The Second Amendment, like all of the Bill of Rights are restrictions on government.
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 6:56:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Doesnt matter what pro 2 a law is passed,  a simple sign at the door can restrict your rights.
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You mean a simple sign at the door can protect the rights of a property owner?
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 7:00:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:
You mean a simple sign at the door can protect the rights of a property owner?
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No, it gives the property owner rights. How many vary state to state.
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 10:41:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

The Second Amendment does not give you the right to carry a firearm on someone else's property any more than the First Amendment gives you the right to argue with the pastor at Sunday mornings services.

The Second Amendment, like all of the Bill of Rights are restrictions on government.
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Exactly. I have no problem with private businesses being able to ban carrying on their property and in fact I think it is a good thing that they have that right. Now I won't do business with places that choose to put up the signs but that is another matter. Your property your rules.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:00:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

The Second Amendment does not give you the right to carry a firearm on someone else's property any more than the First Amendment gives you the right to argue with the pastor at Sunday mornings services.

The Second Amendment, like all of the Bill of Rights are restrictions on government.
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Yeah, its really kept the government in check.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:17:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:


You mean a simple sign at the door can protect the rights of a property owner?
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Funny how that same "right" cant be applied with any other rights other than the 2A. As a business owner i cant just post a sign saying i only want black, white, or mexican customers can I? Or a sign saying you can only say nice things to employees.  Can i post a sign saying only no handicap people allowed? No, i have to have ada doors and aisles of a certain width just incase someone in a wheel chair wants to come to my store. I cant tell that person they wont fit in the bathroom door so dont come in can i. I have to change the door size. Thats not my choice so where is my right on not doing that? You guys keep letting our rights get pushed out because of this fake property rights bullshit. Hell, i bet most of you still think you own your damn house even if you pay it off. Fricken HTF never changes.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 2:35:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:


Funny how that same "right" cant be applied with any other rights other than the 2A. As a business owner i cant just post a sign saying i only want black, white, or mexican customers can I? Or a sign saying you can only say nice things to employees.  Can i post a sign saying only no handicap people allowed? No, i have to have ada doors and aisles of a certain width just incase someone in a wheel chair wants to come to my store. I cant tell that person they wont fit in the bathroom door so dont come in can i. I have to change the door size. Thats not my choice so where is my right on not doing that? You guys keep letting our rights get pushed out because of this fake property rights bullshit. Hell, i bet most of you still think you own your damn house even if you pay it off. Fricken HTF never changes.
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I think that being able to keep people from bringing arms onto your property is QUITE different from discriminating against only certain people.  Guns don't have rights to be somewhere.  People have rights.  And I have the right to be secure on my property.  

If you can't see the difference between prohibiting someone for what they have with them, and discriminating against them for who they are, then that's an issue you have to come to terms with.

Nobody has the right to infringe on other people's rights.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 2:38:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:
I think that being able to keep people from bringing arms onto your property is QUITE different from discriminating against only certain people.
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Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:
I think that being able to keep people from bringing arms onto your property is QUITE different from discriminating against only certain people.


And private property that is your home is QUITE different from private property opened to the public for business which is heavily regulated by gov.

Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:
Nobody has the right to infringe on other people's rights.


Except when Govt says you can.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 4:02:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:


Yeah, its really kept the government in check.
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

The Second Amendment does not give you the right to carry a firearm on someone else's property any more than the First Amendment gives you the right to argue with the pastor at Sunday mornings services.

The Second Amendment, like all of the Bill of Rights are restrictions on government.


Yeah, its really kept the government in check.

So you disagree with the Constitution because the government doesn't follow it as intended?
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 4:11:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:


Funny how that same "right" cant be applied with any other rights other than the 2A. As a business owner i cant just post a sign saying i only want black, white, or mexican customers can I?
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:


Funny how that same "right" cant be applied with any other rights other than the 2A. As a business owner i cant just post a sign saying i only want black, white, or mexican customers can I?

You could until passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. You should have learned about that in high school or junior high. I did.




Or a sign saying you can only say nice things to employees.

Sure you can.




 Can i post a sign saying only no handicap people allowed? No, i have to have ada doors and aisles of a certain width just incase someone in a wheel chair wants to come to my store. I cant tell that person they wont fit in the bathroom door so dont come in can i. I have to change the door size. Thats not my choice so where is my right on not doing that?

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.




You guys keep letting our rights get pushed out because of this fake property rights bullshit. Hell, i bet most of you still think you own your damn house even if you pay it off. Fricken HTF never changes.

There's always this one guy that thinks exercising his rights (imagined or otherwise) are more important than the rights of others.
Don't be that guy.

Let us know your address, I'll pass it on to the homeless guy over on the highway. Being that you don't believe in private property rights, he'll be as welcome in your home as any socialist.

Link Posted: 6/14/2021 4:15:36 AM EDT
Thanks, txinvestigator for the excellent summary.

—————————————————————————————————————­——————————————————————————————————-

As for private property… creating easy, defined, methods of private property owners to demand conditions of entry to their private property is the correct thing to do.


A property owner’s right to control entry is superior to your right to carry a firearm.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 8:22:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2021 8:23:09 AM EDT by dropdbombnow]
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Originally Posted By TinLeg:
Thanks, txinvestigator for the excellent summary.
—————————————————————————————————————————­———————————————————
As for private property… creating easy, defined, methods of private property owners to demand conditions of entry to their private property is the correct thing to do.

A property owner’s right to control entry is superior to your right to carry a firearm.
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