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Posted: 8/23/2021 12:40:03 AM EDT
What is the no armor-piercing ammo restriction in KY?

I was reading rankings, on various sites,  of various states based on gun rights.   Kentucky was not consider a top, first tier state for gun rights based on some armor-piercing ammo restriction.    I know I have heard and read that before.    I think I have even seen it mentioned in the KY hometown forum before.      But, I seem to recall that is BS from a practical standpoint and not an issue.

Here is the link  to the USCCA article.    It specifically mentioned in Kentucky armor-piercing ammunition is prohibited .  

Here is another reference, from Giffords Law center, which I do not trust.

The reference at "Find Law" does not seem trust worthy as it mentions "Black Talons" being illegal.  

So, what is the actual law and the practically sad law?
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 12:58:00 AM EDT
[#2]
From a practical standpoint, what does this mean?   What are the implications and impacts on us buying and owning various ammo?
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 1:26:16 AM EDT
[#3]
(7) "Armor-piercing ammunition" means a projectile or projectile core which may be
used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of
traces of other substances) from one (1) or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel,
iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. "Armor piercing
ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by federal or state
environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile
designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary of the Treasury of the
United States finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any
other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary of the Treasury of the United
States finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used
in an oil and gas well perforating device.
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Don't buy ammo that falls into this category (?)
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 1:30:13 AM EDT
[#4]
M855: Facts, Falsehoods, and Fighting Back

Quite simply, no. M855 is not an AP round, neither literally nor by the BATFE's own description of AP rounds. It's rated for use against light personnel and vehicles in the military, and you'll find it's capable of punching through many steel plates at target practice, but it's not an AP round.
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Link Posted: 8/23/2021 7:26:57 AM EDT
[#5]
What about 30-06 black tip AP?
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 9:23:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 11:39:49 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
What about 30-06 black tip AP?
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You have a 30-06 handgun?
Link Posted: 8/23/2021 1:08:22 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
From a practical standpoint, what does this mean?   What are the implications and impacts on us buying and owning various ammo?
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None!

The statute does not mention "buying" or "owning" this type of ammo.

Link Posted: 8/23/2021 3:40:14 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:

You have a 30-06 handgun?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
What about 30-06 black tip AP?

You have a 30-06 handgun?

Maybe...
Link Posted: 8/25/2021 8:35:22 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
What about 30-06 black tip AP?
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Target shooters in military matches during the 1950's and 1960's referred to AP ammunition as 'the poor man's Match ammunition'.  The 165 grain armor piercing bullet is more accurate at long range than the lighter 150 grain bullet loaded in M2 ball. Those of us with enough gray hair to remember buying it from DCM for 8 bucks a thousand will also tell you the stuff made in the Devner arsenal (DEN) was reputed to be the best, despite corrosive primers.  Given the tons of WW2  cal. 30 AP the government sold surplus it was exempted.

On the other hand CARTRIDGE, 7.62MM, ARMOR PIERCING, M61 and CARTRIDGE, 5.56MM, ARMOR PIERCING, M995 were never released into commercial channels as surplus or otherwise. In fact, I never saw a single round of 7.62 AP issued during my twenty some years on tanks, including combat tours. I only know it exists because TM 43-0001-27 ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS, SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION, FSC 1305 says it does on page 11-7.  Any of that ammo floating around outside of government control was likely "misappropriated."
Link Posted: 8/25/2021 10:37:19 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


None!

The statute does not mention "buying" or "owning" this type of ammo.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
From a practical standpoint, what does this mean?   What are the implications and impacts on us buying and owning various ammo?


None!

The statute does not mention "buying" or "owning" this type of ammo.


The part about "transferred or sold" would mean no one could buy it or even be gifted it.  Owning/possessing it would still be legal and it would be hard to prove when someone actually had bought/received it.  

Is this language (whole section) something we could try to get removed?  The ATF regulates the sale of ammunition just like they do firearms.  The General Assembly is only authorized to regulate concealed carry, not accessories and ammo.  The legislatures don't need to make a big deal about it, as they can say they don't have the rights to do it and the ATF already regulates "armor piercing" ammo.


Link Posted: 8/25/2021 3:47:13 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:

The part about "transferred or sold" would mean no one could buy it or even be gifted it.  Owning/possessing it would still be legal and it would be hard to prove when someone actually had bought/received it.  

Is this language (whole section) something we could try to get removed?  The ATF regulates the sale of ammunition just like they do firearms.  The General Assembly is only authorized to regulate concealed carry, not accessories and ammo.  The legislatures don't need to make a big deal about it, as they can say they don't have the rights to do it and the ATF already regulates "armor piercing" ammo.


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I disagree. The transfer is done by the seller. In order to transfer an item, you must first own it. In any "transfer" there must be a transferor and a transferee. The transferor does the transferring. The statute would only apply to that person. That statute has been around for 27 years and I have never heard of it ever being enforced. This is one law that I think we can all relax about.
Link Posted: 8/25/2021 8:20:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Isn’t true AP ammo federally regulated, like incendiary rounds?
Link Posted: 8/26/2021 12:30:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Best I recall Armor piercing is only federally illegal in handgun ammo, not rifle.
Link Posted: 8/26/2021 8:59:10 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I disagree. The transfer is done by the seller. In order to transfer an item, you must first own it. In any "transfer" there must be a transferor and a transferee. The transferor does the transferring. The statute would only apply to that person. That statute has been around for 27 years and I have never heard of it ever being enforced. This is one law that I think we can all relax about.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The part about "transferred or sold" would mean no one could buy it or even be gifted it.  Owning/possessing it would still be legal and it would be hard to prove when someone actually had bought/received it.  

Is this language (whole section) something we could try to get removed?  The ATF regulates the sale of ammunition just like they do firearms.  The General Assembly is only authorized to regulate concealed carry, not accessories and ammo.  The legislatures don't need to make a big deal about it, as they can say they don't have the rights to do it and the ATF already regulates "armor piercing" ammo.



I disagree. The transfer is done by the seller. In order to transfer an item, you must first own it. In any "transfer" there must be a transferor and a transferee. The transferor does the transferring. The statute would only apply to that person. That statute has been around for 27 years and I have never heard of it ever being enforced. This is one law that I think we can all relax about.

I agree that I've never heard of it being enforced and it isn't a concern.  However, I look at the broader picture I see it as hole in the armor we have with our verify specifically worded state constitution.  The anti-gun legislators, Democrat and Republican, have always been trying to find ways around the restriction that the General Assembly is only allowed to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons. You know that fight is coming and you know a couple Republicans have tried to push gun control in the name of safety when they were trying to get Red Flag laws to move.

The line in the sand should be the strict wording of the constitution and not "well they don't enforce it so who cares about that gun control law".  At some point someone will try to enforce it or use it to claim their gun control is no different than ammunition restrictions.  The General Assembly either has the power to regulate ammo or they don't.  With that law on the books it confirms they have power to regulate ammo.  

Right now if we have an Arfcom shoot this fall and I hand you a steel core 7.62x39 round so you can shoot the engine of an old push mower that I bring, technically I just committed a felony and could lose my gun rights.  Are you really ok with that scenario and law on the books just because it isn't enforced (right now)?

If they can put restrictions on certain ammo because it isn't a firearm then they could put restrictions on how much ammo someone could have, requirements to buy ammo (need an FOID card in IL), restrictions on accessories like magazine size, and any number of things.  Would you be ok with a ban on the manufacture, sale, delivery, transfer, or importation of magazines capable of holding more than 7 rounds like New York has?  It will probably never be enforced or even possible enforce so no big deal right?


Link Posted: 9/5/2021 9:08:36 PM EDT
[#16]
USCCA is wrong.
I routinely buy/purchase/receive AP ammo and I live in Kentucky.
Like .50 BMG ammo: AP, API, APIT, and SLAP.

Hell, at the Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot you can buy, sell, shoot, all the AP you can buy.

I mean I've had the CMP ship .30-06 M2 AP ammo in crates to my house!
Link Posted: 9/6/2021 4:01:44 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
USCCA is wrong.
I routinely buy/purchase/receive AP ammo and I live in Kentucky.
Like .50 BMG ammo: AP, API, APIT, and SLAP.

Hell, at the Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot you can buy, sell, shoot, all the AP you can buy.

I mean I've had the CMP ship .30-06 M2 AP ammo in crates to my house!
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You and hundreds of others. As I said, buying and possession are unrestricted. In any case, who is looking? What state agency would enforce this statute? Even the people on this forum can't agree on what ammo this applies to. I doubt that your local sheriff will know, either.
Link Posted: 9/6/2021 9:54:05 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

What state agency would enforce this statute?
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The same agency that stalked people that went to church and recorded all their personal information?  They had no problem stomping all over rights enumerated in the US and KY Constitutions at the direction of the Governor.  For him to order them to enforce a law already on the books, punish those on the right, while pushing his liberal agenda seems like a no brainer if he was aware of it.  
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