Hey guys,

Life long NY-er here. Upstate, NOT THE FRIGGIN CITY  (And no, I'm not a not a move to a free state and vote for asshole democrats type.  I've never voted democrat in my life!)

In any case, ive been dying to move to a free land where I can actual enjoy freedom and buy whatever I want!

Found out about a very interesting business opportunity in North Pheonix.  Be a change of career, thank God, and be moving to a free state, down side being a LONG way from my extended family.....

Planning to fly out and take a look into things this spring.

Aside from a blessed lack of snow where I can run my Challenger year round... what else can I expect??

Is there dessert land I can buy and shoot on?  or do suburbs surround pheonix for miles and miles like the NY cities?  or is there big plots of land available?

Are there as many snakes as I am always hearing about?  or are they not that bad of a problem?

Do you guys really check your boots before you put them on every time for spiders/scoripons?

Aside from some SPF, what else should I know before I fly out to take a look at the opportunity?

-CB

I've been here since 2001. I've seen exactly one snake while living in the suburbs, and it was some little non-poisonous guy in my garage. I've only ever seen scorpions on a scorpion walk we did in the desert where we went out specifically looking for them. Basically with the wildlife the only place you have to worry about it is in the desert or on land immediately adjacent the desert.

It's as you suspected, very little open desert left where you can go shoot and suburbs ringing the megalopolis for miles in every direction, but there is some open desert around the fringes. I drive about 30 minutes to get to the desert where I can shoot, but there are plenty of indoor ranges where you can shoot handguns or zero your rifles at 25 yards. I have no idea about the availability of desert land tracts that you can buy, but there have been a number of occasions where I thought I was shooting on public land and have been asked to leave by some guy claiming to own the land I was shooting on, so there must be some land available for sale.

In addition to having Mexico to our immediate south we also have CA to our immediate west, both or which are a cancer upon us, the main symptom of which is people showing up and wanting to make this new place just like the shitty place they just fled from, so basically every day you wake up here is the best it's ever going to get, because every day it gets a little worse with the utopia shit and the free shit for everyone crowd, but it's probably better than where you are right now.

You don't have to vote for a democrat in AZ to make it worse, as we've fielded such great RINO's as John McShitstain and Jeff Flakey.

As for your extended family, don't worry about being far from them, because they will move out here one by one as the years go by.

If I knew I was going to live a few hundred years I'd have just stayed in CA instead of moving here, because eventually all the people who make CA a shitty place will all leave CA and they'll all leave NY and NJ and all of them will move here, and then CA, NY and NJ will be decent places to live, but since I'm probably only going to live to be 100 I figure I did the right thing moving here, because for the time being and probably for the rest of my life this place will probably be freer than those places.

If you want a tour guide while you're here just email me through the site.

You will be driving at least 45 minutes from Phoenix before you can find open public land to shoot on; but we do have 3 major outdoor ranges on the North, South, and East side of the metro area. (Ben Avery, Phoenix Rod & Gun Club, Rio Salado, respectively)

Any plot of land you could purchase and shoot on is going to be at least 90 minutes away, realistically 2-4 hours away.

I've lived here my entire life, 36 years, only seen 2 rattle snakes, 4 scorpions.  Never in my shoes...this isn't a real concern unless you go camping in the desert...that's the only time I check my boots.  If you were to go hiking in the spring/summer, it's more of a concern for snakes.  Buy a UV flashlight and go scorpion hunting...it's fun for the kids!

There is a gun shop every few miles, multiple indoor ranges (I think we have 6 in the metro area now).  CA/NY "ideas" are starting to ruin our laws...they just introduced a half dozen anti-gun Bloomberg BS that won't go anywhere, but it's a startling trend.

Constitutional Carry state, but get your CCW ASAP anyways...it makes buying guns so much easier (the CCW is your background check in AZ).

It's hot AF in the summer, but little to no humidity.  I'll take 115 degrees with 20% humidity over any 80 degree days with 70% humidity.

Arizona is one of the last FREE states....I suggest running as fast as you can from NY.

I moved here from the Bay Area when I was 18, got a taste of freedom and could never move back. That was 17 years ago.

I shake my boots out before I put them on, scorpions are thing near my house, but I’ve only ever been stung once. See them all over the property though...

Get your ass out here, you’ll love it. Help us offset the liberal migration and defend this place as one of the last strongholds of freedom.

Land is available like that, but nowhere near Phoenix. The Phoenix area is huge.

At the edges of the metro area you can get larger sized properties (2-10 acres) but they won't be places you can shoot for the most part,
and they'll be very expensive (plan on 50-100K per acre or more in the north.)

If you travel a couple hours or more, then much larger parcels (40+ acres) become a reality, and depending on the area you may be
able to shoot on them. There are also areas of private land that are embedded in the national forests where you'd be able to shoot within a short
drive or even walking distance -- but again, none of these will be in Phoenix. Note that during fire season most of the national
forest areas will be shut down to shooting. It's also possible to shoot on other federal land (e.g. BLM.)

Note that the large parcels of available land for sale at reasonable prices are almost all high desert in the middle of nowhere, and
most of it is pretty flat (e.g. no natural backstops.) There are some amazing properties around if you dig for them, though.

Very few of these locations are compatible with full-time employment in the Phoenix area outside of being weekend retreats.

The Phoenix Valley area includes several cities that grew together over the century. The Valley is one of the largest cities by square miles in the United States. There are TONS of things to do all over that area, and around the state.
Born and raised here - my son was born in the same hospital I was, in Tucson. Moved to Casa Grande, and love the smaller town living. I hate rush hour traffic, so any trips I take to the Valley are off peak hours.
We can use more freedom minded voters to counter act the Calirefugees and Chicago expats.
Firearms freedom is really that - you will likely go nuts when you get here.
Now, the desert is beautiful - she will kill you if you turn your back on her. Very first place I recommend you visit is the Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum in Tucson, which will give you a great look into what we actually have here, and we have almost every type of terrain you can find elsewhere, with the exception of the beach. Big place, lots of great info. Carry water, plan excursions outside of cities and such with an eye towards surviving the heat if you break down. Heat destroys car batteries, you will need t replace them every 3 years minimum, even with a Heat Beater.  AC need to be serviced in winter just to make sure, and you might use it during winter. Monsoons are a real thing and when they close the washes and such for flooding, do NOT drive around the barricades - no matter how good your 4WD truck is, it will get swept away. We have a thing called Stupid Motorist Law. Anyone who needs to be rescued for doing dumb stuff gets billef for ALL costs of the rescue, down to the gas used to get there.
Come on down, we have a LOT of neat stuff here, and the freedom is real.

I'm curious, are you in the East Valley? I've never seen a single scorpion out here in Farthest East Mesa, but other people seem to see them semi-regularly.

With respect to the freedom thing, I love to tell Yankees about the joys of buying guns from complete strangers at Taco Bell. That's right, back when there was backpage.com, I would make meets at the Taco Bell parking lot on Ellsworth and Baseline to buy and sell guns from/to complete strangers, no ID's, no nothing! No one even lost any fingers or anything, it's great.

Also, another great thing about this place that is different from CA and probably from NY is that when your windshield breaks here it's actually a money MAKING opportunity rather than a money spending proposition. In AZ auto insurance policies are required to offer $0 deductible and low cost glass insurance, typically $5 or $10 a month, BUT when you replace it most of the auto glass places around here will give you about $100 for your business, so if you get one chip a year in your windshield or two (or even more I'd guess) you get PAID to have them come out and give you a free windshield. It's one of my favorite things about this place versus CA.

Wow, thanks for all the detailed responses.

Currently I have an uncle out there, which is what the job opportunity is.

I might see a brother follow me out at some point if I go, but he's joining the army, so it'd be a few years minimum, but my other brother is in NC, and I don't see him moving anytime soon due to his wife's family...

I've been out there once.  almost 20 years ago when I was a teen.  Rolled through death valley on the way, so when we rolled into pheonix at 112 degrees, it didn't feel bad at all.  So long as its low or no humidity, I'll take the 100+ degree temps!

My biggest thing is I like to build (parts kit emit conversions, etc) and dream of one day starting a small MFR FFL to play around with some NFA stuff.  I know some ranges get touchy about home built stuff.....

But hey, if out there I can build it.  Here in NY, I can only dream of it....

Thanks again for all the replies.  I'll update you guys if I ever do get out there.

Its a hard choice because I have a career here that is essentially unaffected by the economy with very little legitimate responsibility right now making around 70K (I'm single without kids currently) but could walk away, get out there to freedom, run my own business and potentially make a hell of a lot more... but with way more responsibilities..... and economy depenedent.

Scary move.

North Phoenix

I escaped from the Buffalo region in 2016. I decided on the much less crowded and cooler Prescott region to settle in.
You will be very happy I think. Be prepared for oppressive heat in the Phoenix region in the summer. Bear in mind though a drive to higher elevation and cooler temps is only an hour. As mentioned the Phoenix region has lots of great ranges so places to shoot are not a problem.
Constitutional pistol carry, class 3 available.
I will be getting my feet wet with my first suppressor soon

Hone built NFA machine gun is a no go anywhere without a Class 7 SOT. You can do the suppressor/SBR/SBS with the appropriate paperwork, and this IS an NFA friendly state - carry it if you wish, nothing extra involved. I had a buddy way back in the day who used to carry his MAC13 .380 subgun in an SMZ rig with a ten rounder in it and two 32 rounders opposite side.  Since it was on the National Registry, he carried it via his CCW permit, (he passed before Constitutional Carry was a thing), perfectly legally. Just jump through the hoops ATFE has set up for NFA procedures and have fun.

skin cancer and uninsured motorists are a big problem here, take necessary precautions.

these are not if's they are whens

Yeah the opportunity would come with the available funds to start a small "kitchen table" mfr FFL.

I'm still not sure it'd be worth it, but am considering it....

Just a word of caution, from an old guy (Been in AZ since 1972).   A "kitchen table" FFL is pretty common place here in AZ.  Almost everybody does it as a PART TIME side job.  But your not going to live off of it.  You need a full time job to provide the $ need to live anywhere.  The big difference in AZ vs NY is that "You CAN do it in a friendly state".  Now as far as critters go, It took me 15 years of shooting in the desert, riding dirt bikes in the desert before I seen my first Rattler.   Shooting one day, needed to take a wiz, walked to a dirt berm and after 5  sec, I hear the rattlers going off (Little did I know there was a rattler down there). (Hard to stop a good PISS), but I DID (So will you).  Don't worry about it.   Scorpions as mention above in the city are rare, but they do live out here (Note: A good Pest control guy will be your best friend).

The greater Phoenix are is totally different than rural places back East.   I Hail from Independence OH (used to be a rural area - not so much today).  It is culture shock moving to AZ, but I'm sure your relative here has informed you.

Owning land to shoot on by yourself is almost impossible attain.   2/3 of the "Open land" in Arizona is owned by the government (Fed/State).   There is a lot of places to go into the desert and shoot, It may just take you a bit longer to get there, but it is available (Totally different to rural areas in NY/OH/PA, etc).    Hope this info helps.

We do Welcome strong 2A supporters to this state, but we do have issues with othere's !

About that FFL dream...do you know how to make a million dollars in the retail gun business? Start with two million and work your way down!

Some people still like to go through an FFL instead of doing private deals because it feels "criminal" to them to just buy a gun off of some guy from Armslist, and even when they buy off of the internet if they're buying out of state they still need an FFL to do transfers, so it's still a decent sideline I guess, but the money to be made being a kitchen table FFL is more along the lines of being a notary public or selling essential oils than becoming a weapons tycoon. I guess if you like meeting lots of people and discussing 9mm vs .45 or beans/no beans live in person it might be cool, plus it'd be a great excuse to go to every single gun show, and OH the gun shows we have!!!

I'm also here in NY looking to escape to AZ. No, I am not bringing NY anti-gun policies with me. I would much rather be in a free state where firearms are appreciated, and democrats are not.

My life is simple, 59yrs old, single, retired, leg amputee, no wife, gf, kids being dragged along with me. I get around on my own pretty well.

I would prefer to be near shooting ranges vs finding open land to shoot. The East Valley sounds like a good spot according to another post. I was also thinking the Kingman area due to it's proximity to Vegas, but I don't know about shooting matches in that area.

ETA...Looking for someplace that's a bit cooler than the desert floor. Any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated!

ps. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread and I didn't think the AZ HT forum wanted another New Yorker thread.

Left NY 13  years ago myself.

The urban sprawl of the PHX METRO area is mind-blowing, coming from Upstate NY semi-rural living.

In the thick of it, you could live out the remainder of your existence, comfortably, within a 2-3 sq mile area of your house.

The freedom is real. You'll feel it a little bit every day.

The weirdness is also real...  But that's what happens when you live in general proximity with 5 million people, and share borders with 2 foreign countries.

Rush hr traffic blows. Plan regions of work/residence accordingly if possible.

You will evolve to enjoy/appreciate cloudy and rainy days.

Chonies..

Haboobs..

Churros..

Welcome to the southwest..

I came here in 2000, I think I was 10 years too late to really enjoy freedom and the desert lifestyle.  You are about 30 years too late.  Another 10 years it will be like LA.  Land is very expensive.  Its only a matter of time before they shut down public lands shooting, at least anywhere near the populated areas.

If employment is not a concern and you want a large spread, I would look at states like Texas and east of there.  Stop before you hit any states bordering the Atlantic.  Its getting harder and harder to escape the Phoenix metro area and enjoy the outdoors.  Esp if you start on the south side of town.

Arizona is much more urbanized than people think, you can be in the middle of nowhere or close to it and there are neighborhoods full of houses on 7k foot lots back to back.  35 acres lot of scrubland with possibly no water under it costs as much as 100 acres of farmland in other states.

And snakes, lol...  I have spent 3 hours fishing on a river in Texas and seen 5x more snakes in the wild than living in Arizona for 20 years.  Speaking of which, born and raised in Texas, maybe that explains my attitude on Arizona.  It's nice and all, but then again, never lived in New York either.

Was up in Old Town Gilbert enjoying another wonderful breakfast at the Farmhouse restaurant, great selection of oddball eateries along that section of road, including a VERY overpriced fish taco joint. To get to almost any point in The Valley from CG is 1/2 to 1 hour, depending on time of day. Since my work schedule is, shall we say, "unconventional", I can pick what time of day I want to go. Today was about 10AM.

Hardly - 30 years ago it was open carry only, not even CCW permit, and no carrying in any restaurant that served open alcohol, among other things. We have evolved our gun laws significantly since then, and continue to do so. As for LA...there are still more raio station playing in English in the Valley that I have found, and we don't have NEARLY the criminal alien population Cali does. Case in point - our sentencing laws have not gotten weaker by any means, but our criminal alien prison population goes DOWN every year. They are going elsewhere. We have VERY Leftist LIEberal leadership in both Tucson and Phoenix, have for decades, and that's the way it sits - outside those places, it's MUCh more conservative, and even IN those bastions of leftism, you can still open carry your AR if you wish. State preemption law with teeth keeps them in line. I don't recommend it, but it's 100% legal - look at the pictures from Saturday's gathering at the state capital.

there's more to freedom than gun laws...

@captainbarred, @SAM7R-51, @scolist,

AZ is great, especially compared to the East Coast.  No humidity except for late summer monsoon, and no snow to shovel.  Also way less traffic and people, but it gets worse each year.  15,000-17,000 move to the valley every month.

As for scorpions, it depends where you live.  Close to the desert or in the north valley, watch out.  I lived in Cave Creek, and later on Carefree Highway right down the street from Ben Avery shooting range, and I would slip off my flip flops and smack 2,3,or 5 dead every evening on the back porch.  Occasionally inside, even hanging off the ceiling.  Careful, they can drop on you, or land in your bed.

Now in East Mesa, butting up to the desert and the Superstition Mountains just to the north, and I only see 2-4 a year.  Never check my shoes, never been stung, knock on wood.

As for FFL, there are a few in every neighborhood.  Literally.  Most do it to get better pricing, do an occasional transfer for $20, and lose money on the deal.  But it is their hobby and they have real jobs.  And they buy enough firearms for themselves that the savings makes it almost break even.  You need a store to really make money, and employees, and unfortunately, that means following a bunch of regulations, insurance, alarms, cameras, state inspectors...

You mentioned ranges don’t like home builds... here no one cares.  I used to shoot Ben Avery every week, now Rio Salado, or the desert, or an indoor place.  I can be shooting 20 minutes after leaving my front door.  If you are stuck in the middle of the city it could take an hour max.  If you are gonna be north Phoenix, sounds like Happy Valley, you’d go to Ben Avery, 20 minutes tops.  Ranges don’t inspect your equipment, won’t ask for your papers, and mind their own business as long as you follow proper safety protocols.

There is loads to do here, from restaurants, museums of the southwest, hiking, shooting, archery, fishing, lakes and boats (more boats per capita than any other states), mountains for skiing and cooler weather, great for flying and skydiving, rock climbing, off roading and sand rails, golf, racetracks for dirt, motorcycles and cars (to watch or race yourself).  You will not be bored.

I write one of these twice a week, especially lately.  I should just copy and paste.  So many moving here.  You will like it.  Just please, don’t be a putz or vote for democrats and gun grabbers.  If you ruin it, we will deport your ass!  ;-))  kidding, but not really.

Get a CCW, that way you can buy more firearms without all the regular BGC wait, which is actually only 5-10 minutes with the paper, but still.  It is Constitutional Carry, so open carry or conceal carry, as you wish.  The 2nd is the only “permit” you need.  You will see bikers packing, sometimes down the thigh... sport bike riders with an OWB holster, people in stores, out on the street, on hikes... and there will be LOADS you don’t see, but expect everyone to have a gun.  An armed society is a polite society.

Come on out, and let us know when ya get here.

What he said. The problem with guys who move here to escape their shitty state's gun laws isn't so much the guys themselves, it's when your relatives fly out here in December to visit you and feel the weather and decide that they can put away their East Coast elitism and move out here, but they're knee jerk Democrats who elect shit heads like Steve Farley and soon to be Mark Kelly.

Don't let them visit. Tell them how bad the pizza is and say whatever you need to say in order to confirm their beliefs about our crassness and our deep seated hate of outsiders.

The only other thing is that you shouldn't feel like you need to tell everyone you're from the East Coast. Everyone does that. I went and bought some muffins the last weekend, and the lady running the cash register feels the need to tell me she's from Baltimore and then inform me that the muffins in Baltimore are WAY better than any muffins out here. No one cares. Everyone here is from somewhere else. It doesn't make one interesting, and it doesn't count as a personality trait.

True story, on the way to my truck after buying the muffins there was an SUV in the parking lot with custom plates that said "FRMLINY" and had Mets crap all over it. That's "From Long Island, NY" in case you didn't get it. I almost waited until she came out of the store to ask her to autograph my muffins, but she'd have probably refused because the muffins on the East Coast are so much better.

Different perspective.  I left AZ for work about two years ago to live in TN.  I was back there a few weeks ago.  Here’s what I miss:
Predictable weather
Smooth roads
Shooting ranges, gun stores, matches
Everything is close with the cities all melted together
Hiking trails
Everything is new
Having clean cars
My old house
My friends (people here are very Fudd-minded- bills of sale...with fingerprints?!?)
Infrastructure- the grid of streets is so easy to navigate
Sky Harbor airport- I travel a ton and that’s one of the most underrated airports in the US.  I can’t think of one I like more  
Violent crime wasn’t a huge thing.  Yes, I live in the city now (Nashville), so it’s an unfair comparison, but there is a demographic here that seems to thrive on hurting/beating/shooting here.  I carry in my own home here.

What I don’t miss:
Dust.  My allergies were horrible the whole time I was there.  I thought Tennessee would be worse with pollen, but this is the healthiest I’ve ever been.  My sinuses did not belong in AZ.
Blistering heat.  Yeah, it’s dry, but it’s way too long and there are no seasons
Overwhelming # of chain restaurants.  I don’t think I’ve had Starbucks since I moved.
Beige.  Dirt.  Stucco.  No character.

The sinuses are a deal breaker for me ever going back.  That said, if it was AZ or NY, I would deal with being sick and go to AZ.  Miss it there.

Move, dude.

Not a big fan of the Phoenix area. Northern Arizona is much nicer if you pick an area with four seasons and trees. But you’ve got to go where you work...

We must be near neighbors.  I am *right* on the edge.  It takes me less than two minutes to drive to RSSC although I don't shoot that often anymore.

I get javelina and coyotes in the front yard quite often.  One rattler and one long nosed snake in the last 12 months.  A few scorpions but not many.  The bird life is absolutely spectacular.  Close encounters with owls are almost a daily occurence.

Will be moving to peoria/glendale area this summer.Was planning to do in a few years but timing is better now.Almost did it in 2006 but changed plans.

Going to enjoy being a shorter drive to havasu or river be same distance to glamis and a closer drive to lake powell.Only thing i will miss here in ca  is the ability to head to ocean to ride my jet ski in the surf thats about it.other family already said find an open area to target shoot in the desert and they may come out to play right now we do 3-4 trips a year to shoot in desert and camp for the weekend.

I think I'm a little farther east than you, I'm over at the edge of Tonto, takes me maybe 5 to 10 minutes to get to RSSC. Not a lot of scorpions out here either, had one earlier in the year, first one in forever.

Oh ya, and don't forget to pay your ammo tax when you move here.

Flonase changed my life.

Hey everybody, thanks for lots of info, it gives me more incentive to get my ass out there.

I'm thinking a retirement community (not a assisted senior community) near Apache Jct, or in that area at least, might be best suited for me. From what I gather it's a slightly higher elevation(please correct me if I'm wrong) and the proximity to BASF, RSSC, and DSS is comparable. I am not set on community living, I just don't want to be bothered by kids, noisy streets, and general mayhem. Quiet is good.

If there are better areas suited to my interests, I'd love to hear about them.

@ErikInAZ.....I forgot about my skydiving, nice to know Skydive AZ isn't much further timewise than I drive now. Two guys from my home DZ in NY just became members of AZ Airspeed.

Nice.  We did a jump with skydive az two years ago.  Good little company.  Still have the tshirt.  

As far as proximity to ranges, AJ (Apache Junction) is very close to Rio Salado, but Ben Avery is about an hour north, northwest.

The closest range over 150 yards near me is 2 hrs away, so an hour is no problem.

Rio salado would be close, Ben avery would be far as hell from you.

I've only been to AJ once, and honestly I'd be good with not going back. It's not horrible like a ghetto, just seemed like methed out cowboys and az rednecks, just not my place. I'm sure there are pluses there, just not for me. If I wanted to live on the outskirts of the valley, I would do more north for being closer to better weather, like black canyon city or camp verde. If you want to stay east though, I'm assuming most would say chandler/gilbert/santan valley would be better than AJ, but that's a westsiders guess of what an eastsider would say...

Eta. I meant Cordes lakes and not camp verde, but camp verde works too, just much further than the outskirts of the valley.

For all the crap AJ gets its actually a decent place. If mobile homes offend your senses, than ya, run. The thing that actually sucks about the east valley, and the far east valley in particular is actually the huge influx of snow birds every winter. Summer can be downright pleasant. The heat drives off the snow birds and all but the most determined bums.

AJ/East Mesa is close to RSSC, and Phoenix Rod and Gun isn't too far. Ben Avery is actually farther away than Pima Pistol Club(North of Tucson) for me. And there are a plethora of indoor smaller ranges like Caswells(They are still open right?) and C2

@dread_scott

Thanks for the tip!

Yeah, I had a small glimpse in a small area, just nothing that made me be like "yeah, this is a place I want to hang around." Like I said, it wasn't horrible, just not my thing. Plus, I'd rather be further than closer to mexico.

I feel ya on the snowbirds! I'm between sun City west and sun City grand, with sun City proper to the south east. It's bad and this year was especially horrible. Driving has been a goddamn nightmare.

But to the OP and other NY'er, ANYTHING is gonna be better than NY. So stop being wishy-washy and just move! haha.

@Bye_Felicia is that you, T_M?

Yep

Interesting! Wondered where you'd been, did a little digging and that was the conclusion I was coming to, but wanted to check! Hi!

Just been busy.

I prefer the Summers in the Valley. It is hot.

Less people.

Everything posted here is why I moved back. Left Yuma after high school, joined the Navy, spent most of my working life in NorCal. Moved to Texas to be close to the grandkids, they moved so we are coming to AZ. What a difference!!Bought a house in Oro Valley. My wife had only driven through, never spent any time in Arizona and she loved it except for the traffic. I explained to her the snowbird situation, she can't wait to get here. We spent a couple of weeks in OV getting stuff done in the house. Will unass Texas soon. Texas is a good state but it's not home. The humidity is terrible and it's hot as hell in Austin during the summer. Waht they say about the dry heat is true.

Apache Junction is cool, very authentic AZ town. If you live there you're probably less than 20 minutes from a place called Queen Valley where there is open desert surrounding a mountain where people shoot.

There are a boatload of 55+ places in that area, ranging from trailer parks to gated communities. They charge more per square foot than a regular place, but you're basically paying to get away from assholes, so it's money well spent.

Yeah, AJ is like that between Apache Trail and Superstition, but when you get up by Lost Dutchman and the hills it evens out. I delivered pizza there for a while, so I'm familiar with the good areas and the areas where you're as likely to be attacked by a feral animal as you are a meth monster.

A good AJ alternative is Gold Canyon, right along the 60 a little further southeast. You don't feel like you're in CA in Gold Canyon, but you don't feel like you're in the Detroit of the Southwest either.

Caswells is still open, but I don't go there ever since the owner was on TV saying he'd be in favor of universal background checks a few years back. C2 might still be open, but I don't see how they stay open with their prices and their location, but if they are still open I've heard good things about their indoor range. Ted's Shooting Range in Queen Creek is my go to for indoor stuff. It's new, clean, well designed and downright friendly.

The sunbirds are something else, I hope I get to be one some day. The good thing about them is they're usually off the streets before evening rush hour because they have to go home and go to bed at 5pm so they can be up at 2am to go to the Cracker Barrel.

Well, now you people have me searching all over the place, I was hoping to visit during the summer to see where it's hot, too hot, and blowtorch hot. Regular hot is doable, the other two are not good at all!

From 10/86-5/87 I lived on West Bell Rd almost directly across the street from Turf Paradise. It was a 100 deg when I got there and 100 deg when I left, so I can only imagine what the summers are like in that area. But it's a dry heat! I'm looking for somewhere cooler than that.

If work isn't an issue consider Sierra Vista.