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Posted: 6/3/2022 2:28:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
Edited:  Started by looking at a bike with no title, MSO only.  Ended up buying a couple of bikes bill of sale only, no titles.  Went through the VT title process.  Appears to have worked.

Link Posted: 6/3/2022 2:48:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I dread anything dmv related. I wish you luck.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 3:08:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 7:40:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Was it originally a street vehicle or off road only?

Going back to the early 10s MO did not plate dirt bikes. Guys would register them in South Dakota or Wyoming or somewhere out there and ride on out of state plates. Probably not exactly legal but I never knew anyone to have problems.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 9:24:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
Was it originally a street vehicle or off road only?
View Quote

The Suzuki DRZ is a street legal dual purpose motorcycle as it comes from the factory.

@motoguy your best bet is to call the main office in Jefferson City for the correct way to handle this. I would never rely on what local contract offices tell you. Most license offices are contracted owned. I have been burned by listening to the local office instead of calling Jefferson City.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 11:32:16 AM EDT
[#5]
This was one of the non street legal versions (E model).  So it was never titled.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 4:08:55 PM EDT
[#6]
You can do the mail on Vermont title loophole.   https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to-legally-title-any-classic-car-truck-or-motorcycle-using-the-vermont-loophole/
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 4:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Triumphman] [#7]
I'd call or if need be make an appointment with someone in the Jefferson City DMV to see if you have all the required bill of sales to even see if you have what you need, to get a title for this model of bike. Take pictures of the motorcycle's frame/motor serial #s and date of manufacture tag. Get anything you can in writing to rule out any local DMV doubts when you try and get a title in your name. Maybe the person you speak with at Jeff City can help you get it titled for you.

You might want to first, before going to any DMV, go to a sheriff's/city or state police office and run the bike's serial # through their records and get the proper/signed paperwork to know it's not stolen, to show any dmv clerk.



 



Link Posted: 6/4/2022 9:12:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Triumphman:
I'd call or if need be make an appointment with someone in the Jefferson City DMV to see if you have all the required bill of sales to even see if you have what you need, to get a title for this model of bike. Take pictures of the motorcycle's frame/motor serial #s and date of manufacture tag. Get anything you can in writing to rule out any local DMV doubts when you try and get a title in your name. Maybe the person you speak with at Jeff City can help you get it titled for you.

You might want to first, before going to any DMV, go to a sheriff's/city or state police office and run the bike's serial # through their records and get the proper/signed paperwork to know it's not stolen, to show any dmv clerk.



 



View Quote

All sound advice.

I will add one more thing. They might want you to take it to the Highway Patrol Headquarters in Jefferson City to get it inspected too. I know with any homemade street legal vehicles and salvage vehicles that have been repaired all must be inspected by the HP in Jefferson City.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Back around 08 I bought a used Honda ATV over on the KS side that came from Colorado. The Guy didn't have the title.  I took the hand written bill of sale to the Harrisonville Mo DMV.  They sent it off to Jeff city and they issued me a Mo title for it.  I was like  I could have stolen the thing and forged the whole bill of sale.

Like others have said, call Jeff city.  People lose titles all the time.  There must be options.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 9:35:29 AM EDT
[#10]
From what I found even dirt bikes have to be registered and titled in Missouri. Things can get complicated since the state is going to want its property taxes that wasn't paid all those years.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 10:24:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GUNGUY148] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chumpmiester:
From what I found even dirt bikes have to be registered and titled in Missouri. Things can get complicated since the state is going to want its property taxes that wasn't paid all those years.
View Quote


I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered.

I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though.

ETA: I did register one with a county so I could ride at Sutton bluff.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 10:25:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:


I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered.

I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though.

View Quote

It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 4:16:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:


I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered.

I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though.

ETA: I did register one with a county so I could ride at Sutton bluff.
View Quote



Titled and registered are same when going through the process. Getting and putting on plates for road usage is different and adds to the titling and registering.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 4:32:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chumpmiester:

It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chumpmiester:
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:


I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered.

I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though.


It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time.


I have many vehicles that are titled in my name but not registered. Registration gets license plates, current stickers, a white piece of paper that verifies everything, and more money spent.

Back in the day ATVs had to be registered to ride at st Joe, you had to have a title to get the registration.



Link Posted: 6/5/2022 7:34:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:


I have many vehicles that are titled in my name but not registered. Registration gets license plates, current stickers, a white piece of paper that verifies everything, and more money spent.

Back in the day ATVs had to be registered to ride at st Joe, you had to have a title to get the registration.



View Quote

I will correct you on this. With ATV's UTV's (50" wide and under) and other off road vehicles that have to be titled and registered also have to have a registration sticker placed on the vehicles and registration paperwork kept with the vehicle. I know that I have to renew my registration (sticker) every three years on my Honda Pioneer 500 since it is 50" wide or less. The same goes for all ATV's too.

And all dealers that sell off road vehicles have been required to send a copy of the title registration and MSO in to the Dept. of Revenue when they are sold since around 2010. If dealers do not do this then they are breaking the law.
Link Posted: 6/19/2022 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 6/20/2022 7:53:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Good luck on this process!  I bought a truck with no title a few years ago and had to file papers with the state through the court system to get it cleared up.
Link Posted: 6/20/2022 3:13:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By motoguy:
I'm looking at buying an early 2000's Suzuki DRZ.  I want to dual sport it.  The bike was never titled and has changed hands with manufacturer's certificate of origin and bills of sale only.  I've got it in my head (from my past years of bike buying/selling) that I'll need to pay tax on original sales price on the bike in order to title it.  That's ok, it can be negotiated into the purchase price.  

What I'm not familiar with is the process or steps necessary to actually title it.  Can I just show up at the DMV with this 20 year old certificate of origin, a handful of bills of sale, and say "how much do I write this check for?"  I doubt it's that easy.  Any chance anyone here is familiar with the process?  I just called MO DOR for titling questions, and was told I had a 180 minute wait with 200 people in line ahead of me.  So...yeah.  Not doing that right now!

I called the Eldon DMV office.  I was told my 2 official options are:

1) track down original purchaser and have them title it.  Then get title from
them.

2) file with the court and see if I can be awarded ownership

Thought I'd ask here and see if I could get any info in the meantime.
View Quote



I've got an ATV with a BOS and no title.  I figured out a long time again that it's just about impossible to get a title for it......for the exact reasons you stated.  Trying to track down the previous owner, and getting them to pay sales tax on it (that's why they don't have a title for it in the first place) is impossible....nobody is going to say "sure, no problem maybe....20 years after the fact let me pay taxes on a bike I don't even own any more.

And like you said...trying to go through the courts is way more money and time than it's worth.

Good luck......but I think you are going to find the same thing I did, it's just not worth the time and money.
Link Posted: 6/21/2022 11:33:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imq707s:



I've got an ATV with a BOS and no title.  I figured out a long time again that it's just about impossible to get a title for it......for the exact reasons you stated.  Trying to track down the previous owner, and getting them to pay sales tax on it (that's why they don't have a title for it in the first place) is impossible....nobody is going to say "sure, no problem maybe....20 years after the fact let me pay taxes on a bike I don't even own any more.

And like you said...trying to go through the courts is way more money and time than it's worth.

Good luck......but I think you are going to find the same thing I did, it's just not worth the time and money.
View Quote

So very true. The state IS going to want the sales tax and ALL past owed property taxes paid first.

For those wondering about ATVs and UTVs 50" wide and under, here is my experience.

I purchased a Honda Pioneer 500 in 2016 and the dealer gave me the MSO along with a Missouri title application. When I went to my local DMV office, they misunderstood the state statutes and told me that ALL UTVs do not need registered/titled. 6 months later I got a nasty gram from the state wanting to know why I did not register/title my Pioneer 500. Once I called Jeff City and explained the situation, all late fees/penalties were waved for me. Jeff City explained that any UTV listed as 50" wide or under by the manufacturers MUST be registered/titled just like ALL ATVs must be registered/titled.

And from what I could find it is the same way with all dirt bikes too. The MO Dept. of Revenue has required all off road vehicle dealers to submit a copy of the MSO and Title Application for every off-road vehicle sold since around 2010. The state started this requirement to catch everyone that was buying off-road vehicles and never registering/titling them. The state wants its tax money.
Link Posted: 6/21/2022 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chumpmiester:

So very true. The state IS going to want the sales tax and ALL past owed property taxes paid first.

For those wondering about ATVs and UTVs 50" wide and under, here is my experience.

I purchased a Honda Pioneer 500 in 2016 and the dealer gave me the MSO along with a Missouri title application. When I went to my local DMV office, they misunderstood the state statutes and told me that ALL UTVs do not need registered/titled. 6 months later I got a nasty gram from the state wanting to know why I did not register/title my Pioneer 500. Once I called Jeff City and explained the situation, all late fees/penalties were waved for me. Jeff City explained that any UTV listed as 50" wide or under by the manufacturers MUST be registered/titled just like ALL ATVs must be registered/titled.

And from what I could find it is the same way with all dirt bikes too. The MO Dept. of Revenue has required all off road vehicle dealers to submit a copy of the MSO and Title Application for every off-road vehicle sold since around 2010. The state started this requirement to catch everyone that was buying off-road vehicles and never registering/titling them. The state wants its tax money.
View Quote


Yep...I didn't even think about the personal property tax. So not only would OP need to find the original purchaser from 20 years ago, he's going to have to either pay the original sales tax or convince the original purchases to....and then on top of that, someone is going to also have to pay 20 years worth of personal property tax on it.   Sounds like a lot of money just to get a title for a 20year old dirt bike.  

Those DR-Z400's are pretty common....if it was me and I had to find one with a title, I would just look around...there are plenty out there.

Link Posted: 6/23/2022 8:00:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Hard to say on the property tax, that would have been up to the previous owner to claim that on their assessment.  

I went through the same thing when I bought my Can Am Maverick.  I bought it over in Kansas and I was kind of puzzled when the dealership filled out a Mo title application.  That must have tipped the state off that I'd bought an ATV/UTV and got the letter a few months later telling me to title it. (Pay sales tax)  An email with the MSO showing it was wider than 50" or whatever cleared it up.
Link Posted: 6/23/2022 6:25:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By defender:
Hard to say on the property tax, that would have been up to the previous owner to claim that on their assessment.  

I went through the same thing when I bought my Can Am Maverick.  I bought it over in Kansas and I was kind of puzzled when the dealership filled out a Mo title application.  That must have tipped the state off that I'd bought an ATV/UTV and got the letter a few months later telling me to title it. (Pay sales tax) An email with the MSO showing it was wider than 50" or whatever cleared it up.
View Quote
And I had just the opposite happen. I was told that I did NOT have to register my Pioneer 500 since it is an UTV. The local office was wrong since teh Pioneer 500 is 50" or less. I got a nasty letter from the state assessing late fees. Luckily I was able to get the late fees waved when I called Jeff City and explained everything.

Missouri did change the laws around 2010 requiring all dealers to submit a copy of the title application to the state.

Someone mentioned all the years of back property taxes that WILL be owed. Now who will actually be responsible to pay is a good question.
Link Posted: 6/23/2022 7:02:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Why are you dead set on titling it in Missouri?  Title it somewhere else and then you don't have to worry about all this crap.
Link Posted: 6/24/2022 8:12:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delorean:
Why are you dead set on titling it in Missouri?  Title it somewhere else and then you don't have to worry about all this crap.
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Paperwork is all ready to send in for a VT registration.  Then I'll transfer it to my name here in MO.
Link Posted: 6/24/2022 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By motoguy:
Paperwork is all ready to send in for a VT registration.  Then I'll transfer it to my name here in MO.
View Quote


But if you're going to run into issues with personal property taxes, then why are you transferring it to your name in MO?
Link Posted: 7/23/2022 6:36:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Got my VT tags and temp registration a week or so ago.  Got my "regular" VT registration yesterday.  I'll take this stuff to the MO license bureau on Monday or Tuesday and see what happens.  Should end up with a MO Title in a week or two.
Link Posted: 7/25/2022 9:05:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy] [#27]
Got the ID/OD inspections and left the Lebanon DOR today.  Paid title fees for both bikes.  Should have my MO titles on them in the next week or two.  After seeing my success a friend is going to use the same method to get a title on the '51 Chevy that's been rusting away on his property for years.
Link Posted: 7/25/2022 9:11:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mustangracer:
You can do the mail on Vermont title loophole.   https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to-legally-title-any-classic-car-truck-or-motorcycle-using-the-vermont-loophole/
View Quote

Thank you.  This ended up being the key to resolving my situation.
Link Posted: 8/4/2022 3:04:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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