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Posted: 5/14/2022 2:30:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Are you asking from a cost-benefit perspective?
or from a Green perspective? |
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Posted: 5/14/2022 5:15:22 PM EDT
[#2]
I’d be interested in the cost benefit perspective. As well as information about longevity and how they hold up to hail, high winds?
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Posted: 5/14/2022 5:38:15 PM EDT
[#3]
@The_Dog
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Posted: 5/14/2022 10:29:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @The_Dog Yeah... I saw that earlier. I'm in Atlanta for a family thing, so didn't have that much time for an appropriate reply. Hail and wind will tear up shingles long before a solar panel is damaged. I've dealt with array removal to repair a roof. The modules were fine. Insurance. No two houses are the same even if they have the same floorplan. Usage is the key. And it's too complicated a discussion to do on my phone. Solar will almost always pay for itself. If it's a bad install or design, well.... DO NOT FUCKING LEASE A SOLAR SYSTEM. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 7:45:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Not the answers I expected but thanks guys.
We have an HOA so panels would need to be unseen from the front yard and our house faces south so cover the northern side of the roof with panels? I was thinking there may be leakage issues but it hasn't been mentioned so apparently not a general concern. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 7:47:55 AM EDT
[#6]
@hrt4me
Cost perspective. Thanks |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 7:48:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Now that we've covered that, does anyone have a guy...?
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Posted: 5/15/2022 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Solar will almost always pay for itself. In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 11:23:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Solar will almost always pay for itself. In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. States hitting hybrid and electric car owners with new taxes you can bet states and municipalities and energy providers will do the same with solar |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 11:52:03 AM EDT
[#10]
I thought there was a law now that HOAs could not regulate solar?
Energy storage is getting cheaper and easier. Tesla is the big name but there are many competitors. Definitely need some way to use the solar for backup when the grid is down, it's not a given with grid-tied systems. Some people want to be separated from the grid to avoid the complications. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Solar will almost always pay for itself. In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. I'm stuck in a co-op also. Pretty sure political palm's are heavily greased. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 1:28:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm stuck in a co-op also. Pretty sure political palm's are heavily greased. My electricity rates are fantastic compared to my family not in a co-op. The only downside I've seen is that they're keeping me from pulling the trigger on solar. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 2:54:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the answers I expected but thanks guys. We have an HOA so panels would need to be unseen from the front yard and our house faces south so cover the northern side of the roof with panels? Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the answers I expected but thanks guys. We have an HOA so panels would need to be unseen from the front yard and our house faces south so cover the northern side of the roof with panels? I believe that there is federal code that addresses the issues of HOAs and cities from prohibiting solar panels on the front of the house. But HOAs are always a PITA. And I'm not a lawyer. North would be bad. Use east and west facing roof planes. If you have low pitched roofs, the loss of production is pretty minimal. Most houses aren't ideally oriented anyway. The very best roof is one that faces due south and has a pitch equal to the latitude of it's location. But like hand grenades, close counts. I was thinking there may be leakage issues but it hasn't been mentioned so apparently not a general concern. A bad install can result in roof leaks. But most AHJs are pretty good about requiring the proper kinds of flashing in the application before they issue a permit. And an install that doesn't match the drawing will get a ret tag. No reputable installer is going to risk having to deal with leaks or red tags. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 3:00:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? Quote HistoryQuoted: In general, is this still true if your electric company will give zero credit when you produce excess electricity? That's the design part I was talking about. If the sales guys (who get paid on a kW installed basis) badly oversize the system, it could lead to excessive long payback. If a sales guys doesn't ask for a years worth of electric bills, send him packing. And tell him I told you that. I'm kind of on a mission to flush the industry of dumbass and greedy solar sales people. My parents installed solar, and they reduced their electric bill to just the service fee because they produced enough excess to zero out their usage. My electric provider is a co-op (so I can't switch), and they won't give any credit at all for any excess electricity that I would give them if I install solar. The utility question is one without a good answer. There are 1000's of energy providers. Rules vary. The safe bet is you'll get bupkiss for production exceeding consumption. But there are still true net metering locations where if you send a kWh to the grid, your next kWh of consumption is free. It's slowly going away.... mostly because a grid requires maintenance. The service fee is a relatively "new" thing. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 3:25:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought there was a law now that HOAs could not regulate solar? Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought there was a law now that HOAs could not regulate solar? mumble mumble.... states' rights... mumble mumble Energy storage is getting cheaper and easier. Tesla is the big name but there are many competitors. Definitely need some way to use the solar for backup when the grid is down, it's not a given with grid-tied systems. Some people want to be separated from the grid to avoid the complications. Storage is a huge barrel of monkeys requiring a very educated homeowner. About 98% of the homeowners are not educated enough. RV owners like myself get it. The vast majority of people are clueless about how electricity works. Tesla thinks it's the big name. But their design actually makes installing a backed-up panel more difficult than less. I like to say, Tesla will never die from a lack of ego. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 3:37:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: States hitting hybrid and electric car owners with new taxes you can bet states and municipalities and energy providers will do the same with solar Wanted to read the link before I replied to this. But there are areas specifically targeting solar owners for additional "loving". Yeah, the advent of connections fees was designed to address the idea that everyone should pay the fair share for maintenance. Sometimes it works. But usually not. The idea for extra fees for EVs comes from the fact that state and federal gasoline taxes are supposed to go for road/bridge maintenance. Except we know how politickians like rob Peter to pay Paul. And one of the consequences of requiring higher mileage vehicles is less tax collections from gas due to lower consumptions. Double edged sword. Wait till utilities figure out how to stop people with ESS (Energy Storage Systems per NEC) from charging with night time electricity, then using it during the day to avoid peak use charges. Chapped willies. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 7:15:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My electricity rates are fantastic compared to my family not in a co-op. The only downside I've seen is that they're keeping me from pulling the trigger on solar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm stuck in a co-op also. Pretty sure political palm's are heavily greased. My electricity rates are fantastic compared to my family not in a co-op. The only downside I've seen is that they're keeping me from pulling the trigger on solar. If remember right does the co-op have to approve the solar? |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:08:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait till utilities figure out how to stop people with ESS (Energy Storage Systems per NEC) from charging with night time electricity, then using it during the day to avoid peak use charges. Chapped willies. Wondered about this with the "free nights and weekends" rate plans. I was thinking giany industrial freezers to make ice blocks for the daytimes, but some batteries makes more sense. Heard a story about a guy who hauled a suitcase-size battery to the office every day to charge up using the company's electricity. Life cycle costs, man... My ultimate plan is to get an apartment with water included in the rent, then install a hydroelectric system. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:11:33 PM EDT
[#19]
There is a house in my neighborhood with solar on all 4 faces of his house... I thought the north side was on the roof, but upon looking closer they have built a terrace-type system to get the north panels to at least be flat rather than angled north. So at least moderately efficient. Would love to see numbers on their production, see what their plan is. Or maybe they are a grow house and using the solar to keep the normal electric bill out of the suspicious zone.
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:30:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If remember right does the co-op have to approve the solar? If you're connected to the grid, you pretty much have to get permission to co-generate. They want to be sure you aren't some yahoo trying to backfeed the grid with a honda. How much of a PITA it is will be very location dependent. My jurisdiction is a serious PITA, which is one of the reasons I haven't. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:33:44 PM EDT
[#21]
If I get to work building our ranch house, a solar array over the pole barn at dead nuts optimum orientation will be going in right quick.
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:36:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wondered about this with the "free nights and weekends" rate plans. I was thinking giany industrial freezers to make ice blocks for the daytimes, but some batteries makes more sense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Wondered about this with the "free nights and weekends" rate plans. I was thinking giany industrial freezers to make ice blocks for the daytimes, but some batteries makes more sense. Funny enough, when I started working at the Texas Instruments plant on Forest Lane, they were in the process of building giant "cooler" tanks. They used cheap night time electricity to make several thousand shit tons of ice cold water, that was then pumped through the cooling plants during the day to A/C the building. This was the mid 80's and they were way before their time. We complain about electrical rates, but large businesses have a much tougher time. Heard a story about a guy who hauled a suitcase-size battery to the office every day to charge up using the company's electricity. Life cycle costs, man... HR would probably call that theft. I had a tech who used to burn in the motors for his RC drag cars using the labs power supplies. He smarted off to me one too many times and got his pee pee smacked by corporate for wasting site resources. My ultimate plan is to get an apartment with water included in the rent, then install a hydroelectric system. Oh... you're bad. But 3 gallons a minute won't run your A/C. Trust me on this. I did the math. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:38:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a house in my neighborhood with solar on all 4 faces of his house... I thought the north side was on the roof, but upon looking closer they have built a terrace-type system to get the north panels to at least be flat rather than angled north. So at least moderately efficient. Would love to see numbers on their production, see what their plan is. Or maybe they are a grow house and using the solar to keep the normal electric bill out of the suspicious zone. If you've got the patience and time, this is what you seek. It's reasonably accurate. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 9:46:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I get to work building our ranch house, a solar array over the pole barn at dead nuts optimum orientation will be going in right quick. It's really not rocket science, but some sales guys get greedy and over spec what's needed. Overproducing is not optimal. I don't do installs. I just design the systems (i.e. I do paperwork)... mostly into the PNW, New England area and FL. I do work with a guy over in Tyler when he needs help on something really big (think 300kW+). Small shit he does without me because he's plenty good at this. He just needs pretty drawings for the big clients. If you're in East Texas and want to talk to a like minded guy about getting solar, I can hook you up with him. I've tried to get him onto Arfcom, but he's just not the social media type. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 12:15:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's really not rocket science, but some sales guys get greedy and over spec what's needed. Overproducing is not optimal. I don't do installs. I just design the systems (i.e. I do paperwork)... mostly into the PNW, New England area and FL. I do work with a guy over in Tyler when he needs help on something really big (think 300kW+). Small shit he does without me because he's plenty good at this. He just needs pretty drawings for the big clients. If you're in East Texas and want to talk to a like minded guy about getting solar, I can hook you up with him. I've tried to get him onto Arfcom, but he's just not the social media type. Thank you, I would like his number - however, I am over outside of Weatherford, not E.Texas If I build this house, I have an extensive plan for projects that will require a bit of electricity. 1. A wife from up North that wants the AC at 70 in a 3500 sq.ft house 2. A large shop & office w/AC 3. A large greenhouse 4. Waterwell 5. Pond aeration. I'm not sure if the co-op will allow for credit from power put into the grid or not, but that isn't really a consideration I actually will have an opportunity for pumped hydro between two ponds, but that would be a tinkering project |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 1:07:44 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm just gonna say it, most of the installs looks like a bag of smashed assholes.
We need some sort of fucking standards for this stuff, because the industry isn't doing it. My neighborhood is littered with roofs that look like they were cobbled together with off the shelf parts from Radio Shack by someone who had never played Tetris. Let's put a few on this slope and a few over there. Oh there's one left over, hang it over here. My opinion, it's time to ban asphalt shingles on residential homes, convert it to metal roofing and make the solar panels fit the structure. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 8:34:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, I would like his number - however, I am over outside of Weatherford, not E.Texas If I build this house, I have an extensive plan for projects that will require a bit of electricity. 1. A wife from up North that wants the AC at 70 in a 3500 sq.ft house 2. A large shop & office w/AC 3. A large greenhouse 4. Waterwell 5. Pond aeration. I'm not sure if the co-op will allow for credit from power put into the grid or not, but that isn't really a consideration I actually will have an opportunity for pumped hydro between two ponds, but that would be a tinkering project My buddy has done high efficiency builds. Think net zero homes. PM incoming. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 8:46:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm just gonna say it, most of the installs looks like a bag of smashed assholes. We need some sort of fucking standards for this stuff, because the industry isn't doing it. My neighborhood is littered with roofs that look like they were cobbled together with off the shelf parts from Radio Shack by someone who had never played Tetris. Let's put a few on this slope and a few over there. Oh there's one left over, hang it over here. My opinion, it's time to ban asphalt shingles on residential homes, convert it to metal roofing and make the solar panels fit the structure. I don't disagree. And some of that comes down from fire code. On layouts, we have to maintain a 3 foot clearance at the ridge, and 1.5 to 3 foot clearance at valleys and roof edges. For fire fighter access. Vent stacks, furnace vents and dry vents are problematic. Chimneys cast shade. Sometimes trying to get all the desired array onto a roof requires creative positioning. Builders don't help with all the weird roof angles, multiple roof plains and gables. House roofs aren't simple like the old days. So arrays are harder to do. It's further complicated by minimum string size issues. E.G. SolarEdge needs a minimum of 8 modules to make up a single string. So if no single roof plain can handle 8 modules... As for metal roofs, it would help with the issue of having to remove arrays to re-shingle. But I think you're thinking about the modules that used to be glued down between the seams of standing seam roofs. Those modules aren't made anymore. And the sucked anyway. |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 11:05:54 AM EDT
[#29]
GAF has just come out with a Solar cell shingle. It will be interesting to see where it takes the market. It will also be interesting to see what happens during our next big hurricane event with more homes with solar cells on their roof.
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Posted: 5/17/2022 11:52:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Yeah, lucky me, my new neighbor 2 houses down had guys screwing down channel for solar panels on the eastern side of his house this morning. The slope that faces my house. More Tetris fail.
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Posted: 5/17/2022 3:19:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GAF has just come out with a Solar cell shingle. It will be interesting to see where it takes the market. It will also be interesting to see what happens during our next big hurricane event with more homes with solar cells on their roof. They aren't the first and won't be the last. Solar shingles have additional challenges when it comes to installation and performance. Quite a few big companies have come and gone in that market. Remember all the advertising for the Tesla solar shingles? Have you seen any of that advertising lately? |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 3:21:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, lucky me, my new neighbor 2 houses down had guys screwing down channel for solar panels on the eastern side of his house this morning. The slope that faces my house. More Tetris fail. You don't have to like solar. But at least it achieves a goal. I'll trade you your west side neighbor for my west side neighbor. Mine's got a fucking junk yard full of trash and rodents in his back yard. And this is supposed to be a nice neighborhood. |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 5:12:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the answers I expected but thanks guys. We have an HOA so panels would need to be unseen from the front yard and our house faces south so cover the northern side of the roof with panels? I was thinking there may be leakage issues but it hasn't been mentioned so apparently not a general concern. Solar faces south, so there's your answer, you can't do it. I tell everyone I know that has the ability to DIY it to buy solar panels. You're locking in your electric rate for 10-20 years. If you have some last 40 year rate of inflation in the calculator, like 3-4%, they don't make sense, but start having some years like we are now, 10-15%, and the pay out is much quicker. DIYing some of the work also quickly reduces the payout time a lot. The panels are typically rated to give 80% of their listed power after 20 years, but I have my doubts about most inverters lasting that long, thus the 10-20. I would never put solar on my roof. It just seems like a horrible idea to poke that many holes in your roof, especially if you're not doing the work, hiring one of these big companies that subs the work out to lowest bidder crew. I've seen many cases (especially with Tesla) where they cause roof leaks and do all they can to not pay for it, repair it correctly etc. Like others say, never do one of the leases. There to have seen many cases where the leased system throws an error code so they shut it all off remotely, and then don't come out for a few months to fix it, meanwhile you're paying the lease, and paying a higher electric bill. |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 5:19:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to like solar. But at least it achieves a goal. I'll trade you your west side neighbor for my west side neighbor. Mine's got a fucking junk yard full of trash and rodents in his back yard. And this is supposed to be a nice neighborhood. My west side neighbors don't speak English and smoke weed early in the morning and late at night, like when you're taking your kids to school. For some reason my house is one of the highest valued homes on the street, but it's also one of the smallest. $250k for 1600sqft - I don't want to live here for that kind of money. My neighbors behind me have some chickens (60x120ft lot). You can watch the rats come out of there at night on video when they venture into our yard to eat some dog food. It's at least provided some sporting entertainment when we break out the PCP guns and night scopes. |
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Posted: 5/17/2022 5:41:09 PM EDT
[#35]
We just installed solar panels. Ground mount, not on the roof. The roof wouldn't make sense for panels based on the way it faced and some other factors.
We did it for the tax breaks at first. At the rate of inflation they make cost-benefit sense but the ground/roof need to be right as mentioned above. Last month's electric bill was only $9, and that was a processing fee. |
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