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Posted: 6/25/2022 9:45:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99]
And I'm going to cite NYSRPA as the reason I don't need to give any special "need."
But do I even need to apply? I have an upstate carry permit. How does NY justify not recognizing an upstate carry permit in NYC? But a NYC license is magically valid upstate? It's the same state. NYC has what? Some sort of "home rule" because of population? Pretty sure Thomas said specifically population doesn't make it constitutional to ban carry. And Thomas specifically said NY can't ban carry in Manhattan and label it a sensitive place... Me thinks the NYC carry exemption is basically meaningless. |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 9:09:18 AM EDT
I agree that I think their permitting scheme is now moot but it will take many lawsuits to prove otherwise.
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Posted: 6/26/2022 12:51:17 PM EDT
Does anyone also believe NYC can't ban upstate permits now?
Thomas specifically said NY can't make the entire island of Manhattan a sensitive area. And that's exactly what the NYC exclusion does. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 12:10:33 PM EDT
So reading Thomas's opinion he specifically says that New York's permitting scheme is essentially an unconstitutional "sensitive places" scheme because they ban the entire island of Manhattan / New York City from carry.
But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the cat- egory of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ ar- gument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to pub- licly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no his- torical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Po- lice Department. So I'm going with upstate permits are now valid in NYC... |
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2022 12:26:04 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By DaveM4P99: So reading Thomas's opinion he specifically says that New York's permitting scheme is essentially an unconstitutional "sensitive places" scheme because they ban the entire island of Manhattan / New York City from carry. But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the cat- egory of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ ar- gument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to pub- licly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no his- torical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Po- lice Department. So I'm going with upstate permits are now valid in NYC... Yes. But what in the ruling says that they cannot require a separate permit for NYC? As long as they issue such permits, they can claim that they are complying. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 12:51:55 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By batjka104: Yes. But what in the ruling says that they cannot require a separate permit for NYC? As long as they issue such permits, they can claim that they are complying. I guess the argument is, why couldn't every city demand a separate permit? Every county? Every town? Every hamlet? Every public park? |
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2022 1:05:59 PM EDT
Watching to see what happens here...
On all of this stuff I am holding a Wait and See attitude. I think that is all we can do. Other than financially supporting NYSRPA as they are the ones that got us to this point! Buy NYSRPA stuff Follow me in donating to the NYSRPA! |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2022 1:12:19 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By batjka104: Yes. But what in the ruling says that they cannot require a separate permit for NYC? As long as they issue such permits, they can claim that they are complying. Problem is, being as jaded as I am after all these decades, I can see the scenario secamp32 suggested in another thread: NYC becomes "Shall Issue" but you have to appear in person at One Police Plaza to file your application, get fingerprinted (again), pay your fees and then again later to pick up the physical license. How will that fly for people upstate such as in Syracuse, Rochester or Buffalo to name a few who might only travel occasionally to NYC but want the license? |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 2:54:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aardvark: Problem is, being as jaded as I am after all these decades, I can see the scenario secamp32 suggested in another thread: NYC becomes "Shall Issue" but you have to appear in person at One Police Plaza to file your application, get fingerprinted (again), pay your fees and then again later to pick up the physical license. How will that fly for people upstate such as in Syracuse, Rochester or Buffalo to name a few who might only travel occasionally to NYC but want the license? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aardvark: Originally Posted By batjka104: Yes. But what in the ruling says that they cannot require a separate permit for NYC? As long as they issue such permits, they can claim that they are complying. Problem is, being as jaded as I am after all these decades, I can see the scenario secamp32 suggested in another thread: NYC becomes "Shall Issue" but you have to appear in person at One Police Plaza to file your application, get fingerprinted (again), pay your fees and then again later to pick up the physical license. How will that fly for people upstate such as in Syracuse, Rochester or Buffalo to name a few who might only travel occasionally to NYC but want the license? Thomas addressed that and said the permit scheme can't be overly burdensome. I'd say an 8 hour drive is pretty burdensome no? Obviously they will try...but we all know with this decision they are fucked. Let's not pretend we are fucked. We won. And we won big. Their attempts to thwart the ruling are unconstitutional. And the supreme court knows it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 4:51:52 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By DaveM4P99: Does anyone also believe NYC can't ban upstate permits now? Thomas specifically said NY can't make the entire island of Manhattan a sensitive area. And that's exactly what the NYC exclusion does. Penal law section 400, subsection 6 I believe (as well as several of the other subsections) state something to the effect "except in the City of New York." This is the section of the penal law that addresses STATE pistol permits. NYC pistol permits are also STATE pistol permits that are issued by statute through the Commissioner of NYPD. NYC carry permits are good statewide, ours are not. I think this is an issue that is ripe for a suit. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 4:59:22 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Penal law section 400, subsection 6 I believe (as well as several of the other subsections) state something to the effect "except in the City of New York." This is the section of the penal law that addresses STATE pistol permits. NYC pistol permits are also STATE pistol permits that are issued by statute through the Commissioner of NYPD. NYC carry permits are good statewide, ours are not. I think this is an issue that is ripe for a suit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HiramRanger: Originally Posted By DaveM4P99: Does anyone also believe NYC can't ban upstate permits now? Thomas specifically said NY can't make the entire island of Manhattan a sensitive area. And that's exactly what the NYC exclusion does. Penal law section 400, subsection 6 I believe (as well as several of the other subsections) state something to the effect "except in the City of New York." This is the section of the penal law that addresses STATE pistol permits. NYC pistol permits are also STATE pistol permits that are issued by statute through the Commissioner of NYPD. NYC carry permits are good statewide, ours are not. I think this is an issue that is ripe for a suit. Ha yeah I'd say Thomas pretty much blew that out of the water saying they can't just deem large cities sensitive places. He was very clear about that, mentioning Manhattan by name even. So...I don't think NYC has any leg to stand on. |
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