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Posted: 5/16/2021 9:47:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Tag for answers. I can't imagine one place being 51% would control the entire area.
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Posted: 5/16/2021 10:21:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tag for answers. I can't imagine one place being 51% would control the entire area. When I went through my then CHL class years ago we argued about this. Bennigans doesn't make 51% from liquor sales but the bar does. The bar is posted. Does that mean the bar only is no carry or is the whole restaurant is because of the bar? We never got a good answer. Hoping an LTC instructor will chime in here. |
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Posted: 5/16/2021 10:29:34 PM EDT
[#3]
51% businesses are required to post per TABC guidelines. However, their business would encompass only the space they occupy. If you are consuming alcohol onsite, then you are within that 51% area, if they allow carry out or have an adjacent area where you may consume, then you aren’t within the confines of that premises.
This is grey area and would be subject to the interpretation of TABC enforcement, but if I were consuming at a “beer garden” or the like where there was outside dining alongside other vendors, I would not be concerned about a premises unless it were specifically marked “Alcohol may not be consumed beyond this point” This is my opinion based on my interpretation and I’m sure you’ll hear other opinions. |
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Posted: 5/16/2021 11:42:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Lookup their TABC info and how the property is broken down.
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Posted: 5/17/2021 12:17:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Do they have metal detectors or cops with wands?
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Posted: 5/17/2021 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have metal detectors or cops with wands? Neither. Think of it as a mall food court that has a beer vendor with no dedicated seating. |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 1:22:28 PM EDT
[#7]
On the subject of alcohol sales, I don't see a 51% sign on the front of liquor stores that I've noticed.
Is the 51% sign, and corresponding no-carry aspect, only for places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, not booze stores? |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 1:32:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the subject of alcohol sales, I don't see a 51% sign on the front of liquor stores that I've noticed. Is the 51% sign, and corresponding no-carry aspect, only for places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, not booze stores? 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony WITHOUT up to 10 years in prison. |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:17:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I went through my then CHL class years ago we argued about this. What a circle jerk. Your instructor should have known about this: https://apps.tabc.texas.gov/publicinquiry/Status.aspx Just enter info, it tells you the sign. For example, enter "Collin" in County field, "Juba" in Trade Name field and you see the Juba Pizza Bar in Anna has a BLUE sign. |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:24:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. Are you sure that's not with an unlicensed gun? 30.05 This is how they stopped OCT and other groups from open carrying AR's in places like Freebirds. Remember Snowboots and Fatty everyone here had so much fun with?  Attached FileThis is the 51% for those who haven't seen it or paid attention.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:25:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither. Think of it as a mall food court that has a beer vendor with no dedicated seating. /thread |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:29:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is grey area and would be subject to the interpretation of TABC enforcement, B&W and very little to interpret- 1) Is it a 51% establishment - YES/NO. 2) Are you on their premises - YES/NO. YES/YES = NO carry. |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:45:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: B&W and very little to interpret- 1) Is it a 51% establishment - YES/NO. 2) Are you on their premises - YES/NO. YES/YES = NO carry. Define premises in a food court. Is the 51% vendor's "premises" his 20x20 booth or does it extend to the entire 2000 sq ft area with tables, chairs, and couches that are all under one roof? |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:50:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define premises in a food court. Is the 51% vendor's "premises" his 20x20 booth or does it extend to the entire 2000 sq ft area with tables, chairs, and couches that are all under one roof? Texas legislature has done it for you. TABC Code Sec. 11.49. PREMISES DEFINED; DESIGNATION OF LICENSED PREMISES. (a) In this code, "premises" means the grounds and all buildings, vehicles, and appurtenances pertaining to the grounds, including any adjacent premises if they are directly or indirectly under the control of the same person. There is more, and some sections can be excluded. Again Using Juba as an example 804 S CENTRAL EXPY STE 212 ANNA , TX 75409-4513 |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:55:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Thank you.
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Posted: 5/17/2021 2:57:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you sure that's not with an unlicensed gun? 30.05 This is how they stopped OCT and other groups from open carrying AR's in places like Freebirds. Remember Snowboots and Fatty everyone here had so much fun with? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1670/30_05_png-1945839.JPG This is the 51% for those who haven't seen it or paid attention. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1670/51__png-1945842.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. Are you sure that's not with an unlicensed gun? 30.05 This is how they stopped OCT and other groups from open carrying AR's in places like Freebirds. Remember Snowboots and Fatty everyone here had so much fun with? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1670/30_05_png-1945839.JPG This is the 51% for those who haven't seen it or paid attention. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1670/51__png-1945842.JPG I meant WITHOUT. Fucked up on my IPad |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 3:00:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: On the subject of alcohol sales, I don't see a 51% sign on the front of liquor stores that I've noticed. Is the 51% sign, and corresponding no-carry aspect, only for places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, not booze stores? 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. I would be shocked if Freebirds qualified for a red 51% sign. No way they derive 51% of their sales from liquor. By that metric Chili’s restaurants would qualify as a whole because you can purchase and consume alcohol. Yes, they’ve got a sign in the bar area, but that doesn’t make the whole place off limits. As per the OP, if it’s a beer vendor next to a bunch of other food vendors in an open communal seating arrangement I can’t see how that would cause any issues. Perhaps they are simple required to post the red 51% per TABC |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 3:23:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I meant WITHOUT. Fucked up on my IPad I thought so. I type with rented fingers so anything is possible.  
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Posted: 5/17/2021 4:28:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be shocked if Freebirds qualified for a red 51% sign. No way they derive 51% of their sales from liquor. By that metric Chili’s restaurants would qualify as a whole because you can purchase and consume alcohol. Yes, they’ve got a sign in the bar area, but that doesn’t make the whole place off limits. As per the OP, if it’s a beer vendor next to a bunch of other food vendors in an open communal seating arrangement I can’t see how that would cause any issues. Perhaps they are simple required to post the red 51% per TABC Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: On the subject of alcohol sales, I don't see a 51% sign on the front of liquor stores that I've noticed. Is the 51% sign, and corresponding no-carry aspect, only for places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, not booze stores? 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. I would be shocked if Freebirds qualified for a red 51% sign. No way they derive 51% of their sales from liquor. By that metric Chili’s restaurants would qualify as a whole because you can purchase and consume alcohol. Yes, they’ve got a sign in the bar area, but that doesn’t make the whole place off limits. As per the OP, if it’s a beer vendor next to a bunch of other food vendors in an open communal seating arrangement I can’t see how that would cause any issues. Perhaps they are simple required to post the red 51% per TABC The local Freebirds had a 51% sign up because someone from TABC got kind of nasty about the normal TABC sign about carry a gun unlicensed. The manager freaked at through up a 51%, then a day or two later got the correct signage. I have heard from a few different restaurant managers that TABC employees can get pretty pushy threatening to pull your license. I saw this kind of stuff before, with the BAR in California, one guy would be super cool and bend over backwards to keep you in business and working with the rules, then there were others that if you did not kiss their ass or you asked for an explanation would threaten to take your ARD license and shut down your business. |
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Posted: 5/29/2021 11:31:58 PM EDT
[#20]
I heard an interesting take on this today. If all of the establishments in this building totals are added together, does the place that sells beer and wine total 51% of the total of all of the businesses?
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Posted: 6/1/2021 12:58:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 51% is only for on premises consumption, and 51% of the sales are alcohol based. Off premises sales just need a TABC sign (which will have to be changed with Constitutional Carry) since both HEB and Walmart are required to post it because they sell beer and wine. Same with a burrito place like Freebirds because they sell beer and wine Margaritas. To go in with a LTC is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. I think you mean WITHOUT an LTC. Carry in a "blue sign" establishment like Freebirds for someone with an LTC is OK, as long as it is not posted 30.06 or 30.07. I've never seen 51% signs at a Freebirds, and given that from what I've seen, generally less than 1/2 of customers purchase any alcohol, it seems unlikely that they could legitimately be so. Sorry... serves me right for not reading all the replies... Someone of course got it already... Dohh! |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 1:05:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard an interesting take on this today. If all of the establishments in this building totals are added together, does the place that sells beer and wine total 51% of the total of all of the businesses? Even at the stupidly high prices some places charge for beer and wine, it seems highly unlikely that alcohol sales for places like a food court is 51% of total gross sales. I'd bet that there are a lot of places with 51% licenses that would not meet the criteria if a fair and accurate accounting was taken. However, many businesses want to post 51% so they can prohibit carry without having to post 30.06/30.07. And TABC seems to want to allow as many places to be 51% as possible since it increases their power, among other reasons. So it seems like if a place applies and says they are 51% they don't look very hard. |
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