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Posted: 6/12/2018 10:55:29 PM EDT
1.  Does the state allow/exempt LEOs to own personal NFA items?  Specifically SBRs?

2.  Would shipping a sub 16” AR upper to a person to NYC from out of state be considered a crime in NY?
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 12:03:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes, nys Leo's are exempt and can personally own nfa weapons unless their department's prohibit them.

Nys doesn't restrict any parts, magazines excepted, outside of nyc. I don't know about nyc.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 6:16:16 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Yes, nys Leo's are exempt and can personally own nfa weapons unless their department's prohibit them.

Nys doesn't restrict any parts, magazines excepted, outside of nyc. I don't know about nyc.
View Quote
Yes they are exempt, because they might need to use them off duty or something....
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 8:47:14 AM EDT
[#3]
If you are outside of NY and are shipping something to a NY resident, the laws regarding posession of restricted items falls on the receiver, not the shipper.
For all you know, they are making a bolt action pistol with a fixed mag.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 10:41:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Perfectly legal to ship any AR upper to NYC...BUT...I can't think of a legal configuration for a sub-16 inch AR upper...

All AR15 lowers are illegal in NYC...so an AR pistol is out, even if it's single shot or has a fixed mag...

The Ares SCR / Fitelite carbine IS legal in NYC...but I don't see how you could make that into a pistol with a brace, since it has a buffer tube in the stock.

I guess it could be made into a straight pull AR and put on a lower that somehow accepts a brace...but I've never seen one.

Either way, the buyer could also just be getting it shipped to his place in NYC, and assembling the gun outside NYC. Legal.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 1:02:03 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Perfectly legal to ship any AR upper to NYC...BUT...I can't think of a legal configuration for a sub-16 inch AR upper...

All AR15 lowers are illegal in NYC...so an AR pistol is out, even if it's single shot or has a fixed mag...

The Ares SCR / Fitelite carbine IS legal in NYC...but I don't see how you could make that into a pistol with a brace, since it has a buffer tube in the stock.

I guess it could be made into a straight pull AR and put on a lower that somehow accepts a brace...but I've never seen one.

Either way, the buyer could also just be getting it shipped to his place in NYC, and assembling the gun outside NYC. Legal.
View Quote
The buyer is reported to be a federal LEO who sent me a picture of his credentials.  I’m sure the credentials could be fake, but I have no reason to believe they are fake... So are you saying that AR-15 lowers are illegal in NYC if you are LEO?
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 2:15:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Could be sting.  Are you shipping to an FFL?

Nevermind, I misread the part being an upper and thought it was a lower receiver you were asked to ship.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 10:56:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Fed LEO’s are exempt from state and local restrictions.
Link Posted: 6/13/2018 10:56:48 PM EDT
[#8]
An upper is just parts, you can ship it anywhere.
Sub 16"? permanently mounting extended Flash Hiders to bring a barrel to 16+" has been common practice on AR15's from way back when all those surplus 12" barrels hit the market back In 1975-76.
Link Posted: 6/14/2018 7:11:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 4:50:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:

The buyer is reported to be a federal LEO who sent me a picture of his credentials.  I’m sure the credentials could be fake, but I have no reason to believe they are fake... So are you saying that AR-15 lowers are illegal in NYC if you are LEO?
View Quote
This is the red flag for me. Every fed I've known has told me it's illegal to make a copy of their LEO ID unless it's for official business.
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 9:10:38 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

This is the red flag for me. Every fed I've known has told me it's illegal to make a copy of their LEO ID unless it's for official business.
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Possibly, had I gone through with the deal I would have insisted on shipping the upper to an FFL, maybe unnecessary but it would allow me to sleep gold at night.  I decided the deal simply wasn’t worth it.  Thank you all for your input.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 12:21:07 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Yes, nys Leo's are exempt and can personally own nfa weapons unless their department's prohibit them.

Nys doesn't restrict any parts, magazines excepted, outside of nyc. I don't know about nyc.
View Quote
They need permission from their chief, as well as the County sheriff. Without those ATF will not approve.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 2:41:37 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

They need permission from their chief, as well as the County sheriff. Without those ATF will not approve.
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Sort of. When I got my stamps the forms still required a CLEO sign off. Now all the forms require is CLEO notification. So maybe for N.Y. LEO'S making application for stamps now they might want that additional step.When I applied it was handled no different than anyone else who gets a stamp in the 40 states where NFA is more generally accepted. The only reason they ultimately asked for a letter from my chief for the transferring FFL s records was because I chose to  put on the forms when I applied that it was for duty use.

The biggest problem in the whole process was the grief my FFL got after the fact from the inspector during their next records review months later. ATF had already sent the stamps, I had my stuff, and the inspector flipped her top over the transfers, threatening to throw the dealer in prison. She even called the NYSP over the transfers even after I provided the dealer with the appropriate N.Y. penal law sections highlighted

Edit: I just recalled that during the actual application process, the only response from ATF was a short  delay because they thought I'd entered the rifle model incorrectly on the form. I'd written the model exactly as it was on the receiver and the ATF folks insisted that the paperwork was filled out incorrectly.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 12:00:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Sort of. When I got my stamps the forms still required a CLEO sign off. Now all the forms require is CLEO notification. So maybe for N.Y. LEO'S making application for stamps now they might want that additional step.When I applied it was handled no different than anyone else who gets a stamp in the 40 states where NFA is more generally accepted. The only reason they ultimately asked for a letter from my chief for the transferring FFL s records was because I chose to  put on the forms when I applied that it was for duty use.

The biggest problem in the whole process was the grief my FFL got after the fact from the inspector during their next records review months later. ATF had already sent the stamps, I had my stuff, and the inspector flipped her top over the transfers, threatening to throw the dealer in prison. She even called the NYSP over the transfers even after I provided the dealer with the appropriate N.Y. penal law sections highlighted

Edit: I just recalled that during the actual application process, the only response from ATF was a short  delay because they thought I'd entered the rifle model incorrectly on the form. I'd written the model exactly as it was on the receiver and the ATF folks insisted that the paperwork was filled out incorrectly.
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How long ago was your experience. I've worked with a couple recently on suppressors and when I called ATF they said sign off, not notification, from the chief of the department and sign off from the sheriff because NY is not an NFA state. Maybe that was just the ATF NFA branch making it up as they go along, but that was the guidance they gave me.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 12:25:07 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

How long ago was your experience. I've worked with a couple recently on suppressors and when I called ATF they said sign off, not notification, from the chief of the department and sign off from the sheriff because NY is not an NFA state. Maybe that was just the ATF NFA branch making it up as they go along, but that was the guidance they gave me.
View Quote
Within the last couple of years
Went fir the SBR first, then the second stamp for the can.
No real issues either time.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 10:01:08 PM EDT
[#16]
I should be getting my first 2 stamps back any day now.  (F1 and F4).  No CLEO sign off, just notification, and nothing with my employer other than a copy of my credentials, and that was per my dealer, who said that came from ATF to verify exemption from PL 265.  He's already gotten a F4 stamp back from another person in my same job title with no issues and has an entire safe full of suppressors waiting on forms for LEOs all over the state.

Edit:  And my forms say "All legal purposes" nothing about duty use.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 10:07:30 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
I should be getting my first 2 stamps back any day now.  (F1 and F4).  No CLEO sign off, just notification, and nothing with my employer other than a copy of my credentials, and that was per my dealer, who said that came from ATF to verify exemption from PL 265.  He's already gotten a F4 stamp back from another person in my same job title with no issues and has an entire safe full of suppressors waiting on forms for LEOs all over the state.

Edit:  And my forms say "All legal purposes" nothing about duty use.
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Good to know, I guess the person at ATF gave us bad information when we checked recently. I'll be selling more cans I guess!
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 10:13:06 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

Good to know, I guess the person at ATF gave us bad information when we checked recently. I'll be selling more cans I guess!
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I don't know gun store owner etiquette, but I can direct you to my dealer if you'd like to bend his ear about it, he's got it all down pat pretty much.  Prints out your Form 4 right there and has it ready to mail once you get your prints and photos.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 7:00:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

How long ago was your experience. I've worked with a couple recently on suppressors and when I called ATF they said sign off, not notification, from the chief of the department and sign off from the sheriff because NY is not an NFA state. Maybe that was just the ATF NFA branch making it up as they go along, but that was the guidance they gave me.
View Quote
I've got 21 stamps back approved already ranging from back when the chief had to sign to as little as 5 months ago. I never had to provide a letter from my employer to the ATF.
My only problem I had is when I went to buy a machine gun and the ATF denied the transfer in to the state because they claimed that even though it was pre May 86 and transferable, that the way they read NY law required my dealer to have a law letter. I provided them with the relevant PL sections and they still denied it anyway. this all came from Legal Bureau at ATF..
And obviously my job wasn't going to provide a demo letter that wasn't for them, so I had to sell the damn thing.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 3:18:50 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

They need permission from their chief, as well as the County sheriff. Without those ATF will not approve.
View Quote
Wanna' bet?
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 6:11:18 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

This is the red flag for me. Every fed I've known has told me it's illegal to make a copy of their LEO ID unless it's for official business.
View Quote
Copy can be made if needed, but it has to be defaced with a blackout line through the ID number and the center of the hologram , and "COPY" written across both cred cards with a wide marker, then copied again to make sure the writing under the "COPY" cant be seen. By the time you do all that, most of the ID is useless to try and make a fake with. Plus the water marks and the micro printing will never show up unless its a super high resolution scan.

With that said, I would never email a copy of my creds to a private person I didn't know, even a defaced copy. If an email sent from my .gov email doesn't suffice for proof, then I would find another deal somewhere else.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 8:03:41 PM EDT
[#22]
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