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Posted: 2/12/2021 3:42:19 AM EDT
Is there some kind of law here that requires ID and/or going through an FFL for private gun sales?

I'm not buying anything but I like to look at stuff like Armslist to see what's out there and what people are asking for it just for fun.

Seems like almost everything I see has the seller requiring your ID, bills of sale, going through FFL's, etc. in this state.  Obviously you have to be a resident to buy from another resident but I never saw so many people requiring contracts, copies of ID's and demanding going through FFL's where I came from.  Is it some kind of state law or are people just that paranoid around here?
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 4:48:21 AM EDT
My assumption is many sellers are dealers with an FFL and are required.  There's nothing against private sales and the only two I've done, both had their WCL so I knew they had passed a background check.  I also think it's a CYA thing for Internet sales as there are sellers from all over and it's a just a basic sales descriptions.  Also in today's environment, I would think many would be leery about face-to-face transactions regardless.  

ROCK6
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 7:38:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 7:38:52 AM EDT by Extorris]
Originally Posted By Brandi:
Is it some kind of state law or are people just that paranoid around here?
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Some people are just paranoid.
I skip right by gun ads where the seller wants bills of sale, copies of WCL, etc.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 10:24:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

Some people are just paranoid.
I skip right by gun ads where the seller wants bills of sale, copies of WCL, etc.
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I don't buy or sell without a Bill of Sale. Nothing to do with paranoia, just being responsible and making my attorney's work easier if something were to go wrong somewhere down the road. I was able to avoid going to court by providing a copy of the Bill of Sale about 15 years ago, so they do work.

I've found that nobody wants to write a receipt for anything where ownership is in question
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 12:10:28 PM EDT
I don't require BOS for firearms i sell, but I do require valid GA ID. The buyer can cover their personal info if they want. I just need to see their face on a state-issued ID.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 1:06:18 PM EDT
I exchange products for money or other goods of equal value. I take an individual at their word.

That said its been years since ive purchased/sold privately, most people like the smell of their own brand too much.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 2:07:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By billth777:
I exchange products for money or other goods of equal value. I take an individual at their word.

That said its been years since ive purchased/sold privately, most people like the smell of their own brand too much.
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Think the issue here is that whether you knew or not, if you made a sale of a firearm to a prohibited person, you're going to get attacked.  I'm not paranoid, but I don't trust easily.  I would prefer to see a  valid carry license as they have a background check.  If I sold my guns more frequently, I would at least log the date it was sold and that it was sold to a valid GA WCL holder.  Any inquiries beyond that they can query the GA state WCL list

ROCK6
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 2:47:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WGTactical:


I don't buy or sell without a Bill of Sale. Nothing to do with paranoia, just being responsible and making my attorney's work easier if something were to go wrong somewhere down the road. I was able to avoid going to court by providing a copy of the Bill of Sale about 15 years ago, so they do work.

I've found that nobody wants to write a receipt for anything where ownership is in question
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This. I also request a quick peek at a valid GWCL, don’t need any info off it, just let’s me know I’m not selling to a prohibited person. If the buyer doesn’t like those terms, he can buy elsewhere. I’m just covering my own ass.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 3:01:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Luny421:

This. I also request a quick peek at a valid GWCL, don’t need any info off it, just let’s me know I’m not selling to a prohibited person. If the buyer doesn’t like those terms, he can buy elsewhere. I’m just covering my own ass.
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Pretty much that and as much as I’m willing to do for the seller.  Bill of sale depends, I don’t generally do things over $500 without one in case it’s stolen but I’ve never done one on a FTF gun sale mostly because it’s normally a different class of folks.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 3:23:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ROCK6:


Think the issue here is that whether you knew or not, if you made a sale of a firearm to a prohibited person, you're going to get attacked.  I'm not paranoid, but I don't trust easily.  I would prefer to see a  valid carry license as they have a background check.  If I sold my guns more frequently, I would at least log the date it was sold and that it was sold to a valid GA WCL holder.  Any inquiries beyond that they can query the GA state WCL list

ROCK6
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Sounds like you have a system that works for you.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 4:04:07 PM EDT
no. same as texas. Only thing is I can't knowingly sell to a prohibited person (or underage). so I'll ask to see state ID but they can and should cover info. But i'm sure as shit not filling out a BOS for some random person to have my name and address, thinking it will be helpful later. fuck that noise. Gun people are worse to gun people than anybody else. I don't need your ID to sell a hammer and more people are killed by those every year than rifles.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 4:48:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:
no. same as texas. Only thing is I can't knowingly sell to a prohibited person (or underage). so I'll ask to see state ID but they can and should cover info. But i'm sure as shit not filling out a BOS for some random person to have my name and address, thinking it will be helpful later. fuck that noise. Gun people are worse to gun people than anybody else. I don't need your ID to sell a hammer and more people are killed by those every year than rifles.
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When you have to fill out a 4473 in order to buy a hammer at a retail location, then this analogy may be appropriate. Until then, it's not.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 7:28:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:
I don't need your ID to sell a hammer and more people are killed by those every year than rifles.
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Do you have a reference for that?
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 7:38:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By sea2summit:


Do you have a reference for that?
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Not justifying the hammer v gun analogy, but......it’s an interesting read..

FBI Crime Stats

Link Posted: 2/12/2021 7:53:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FNGfromGA:


Not justifying the hammer v gun analogy, but......it’s an interesting read..

FBI Crime Stats

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According to that hammers, as part of blunt objects, are at ~475 while guns are ~9k.

I always question gun stats, nothing against the poster.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 9:38:00 PM EDT
I said rifles. That’s less then blunt objects
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Link Posted: 2/12/2021 9:42:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Luny421:

When you have to fill out a 4473 in order to buy a hammer at a retail location, then this analogy may be appropriate. Until then, it's not.
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Why not? A gun is an inanimate object, same as a toaster or hammer or knife or bread. All of those things can and do kill people but only one has some special mythical evil within  

As an actual 2A advocate, I should be able to AmaZon Prime an M16 for 2 day delivery free shipping. I should be allowed to get a grenade in a vending machine.

Gun sellers that put extra onus and reporting and demands on a legal gun sale are a scourge in the gun community. Stop putting burdens and drama in places they don’t need to be
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 9:44:21 PM EDT
Oh look, more people are punched and kicked to death than shot with rifles. Maybe we should ban handjobs and karate movies. Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 11:16:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 11:16:35 PM EDT by sea2summit]
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:
Oh look, more people are punched and kicked to death than shot with rifles. Maybe we should ban handjobs and karate movies. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/455820/DBDEC80E-F832-4F12-BE68-8CFE6F9D019E_png-1822405.JPG
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What is “type not stated”?
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 11:25:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By sea2summit:


What is “type not stated”?
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I think that's the part that includes farting in their general direction, and them dropping dead.
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 12:29:26 AM EDT
I also request a quick peek at a valid GWCL, don’t need any info off it, just let’s me know I’m not selling to a prohibited person
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Simply possessing a GWCL is no guarantee, especially considering they are issued every 5 years.  Someone could easily become a "prohibited person" in that time, not surrender the license, and still have possession of it....
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 9:09:12 AM EDT
Just don't knowingly sell to a prohibited person or a minor, a BOS for a gun sell is retarded and I have only dealt with one person that required that because he had a very desirable rifle at a very good price. I've dealt with several folks that want a peek at GWCL and I'm fine with that and one C&R holder needed my name for his log book and I was fine with that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 10:12:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:
no. same as texas. Only thing is I can't knowingly sell to a prohibited person (or underage). so I'll ask to see state ID but they can and should cover info. But i'm sure as shit not filling out a BOS for some random person to have my name and address, thinking it will be helpful later. fuck that noise. Gun people are worse to gun people than anybody else. I don't need your ID to sell a hammer and more people are killed by those every year than rifles.
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Yeah well hammers usually don't have serial numbers that are traceable to the person that originally purchased it, regardless of how many are killed with them. I'm an 07/02 and if you buy a gun from me through the shop, I will see and have your info. If it's a private sale (which I have done a few times over the years) it's the same drill, or simply no deal. I've only had one person refuse to provide a BOS when there was a shotgun up for sale at a gun show, so that was a no deal for me. However I knew the person who did buy it according to the gentleman's terms. When the shotgun sold the second time, it was discovered that the shotgun was hot and long story short, the shotgun was returned to it's owner and the local guy got his money back from the guy he bought it from, and that guy who had initially purchased without a BOS was out $750 with little more than a vague memory of what the guy looked like at the gun show.

Yes this was a perfect time to say "I told you so" and with a big ole smile, I did just that

Anyway, I salute everyone who is fine with a handshake, hug and a big ole grin to capture the gist of a transaction...but if you deal with me, it's all above table and with a paper trail.
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 1:12:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WGTactical:


Yeah well hammers usually don't have serial numbers that are traceable to the person that originally purchased it, regardless of how many are killed with them. I'm an 07/02 and if you buy a gun from me through the shop, I will see and have your info. If it's a private sale (which I have done a few times over the years) it's the same drill, or simply no deal. I've only had one person refuse to provide a BOS when there was a shotgun up for sale at a gun show, so that was a no deal for me. However I knew the person who did buy it according to the gentleman's terms. When the shotgun sold the second time, it was discovered that the shotgun was hot and long story short, the shotgun was returned to it's owner and the local guy got his money back from the guy he bought it from, and that guy who had initially purchased without a BOS was out $750 with little more than a vague memory of what the guy looked like at the gun show.

Yes this was a perfect time to say "I told you so" and with a big ole smile, I did just that

Anyway, I salute everyone who is fine with a handshake, hug and a big ole grin to capture the gist of a transaction...but if you deal with me, it's all above table and with a paper trail.
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Easy. Then I won’t be dealing with you on the personal level.

I understand the FFL rules and regulations and also understand that I don’t need to follow them as an individual selling personal property. I have no desire to add burden, especially imaginary, to these transactions.

A BOS is an imaginary document. It carries no weight.  There is no notary signature or anything of value on it. I could write one up with your personal info and share it totally out of the blue.

We are our own worst enemies
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 2:59:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:


Easy. Then I won’t be dealing with you on the personal level.

I understand the FFL rules and regulations and also understand that I don’t need to follow them as an individual selling personal property. I have no desire to add burden, especially imaginary, to these transactions.

A BOS is an imaginary document. It carries no weight.  There is no notary signature or anything of value on it. I could write one up with your personal info and share it totally out of the blue.

We are our own worst enemies
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Maybe so but I do know for a fact that a faxed copy of a BOS kept me from having to appear in court in Butts county. So since experience trumps speculation, I suppose I will have to leave it at that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 9:15:38 PM EDT
Personally I don't require any paperwork or other information because it's not required and I don't believe in adding my own requirements to something that shouldn't require them in the first place.  

A private sale is just that in my opinion.  There are way too many spurious and unconstitutional requirements placed on our second amendment rights already from the government, I don't need to add my own to them.  That said, I can understand why some people might be inclined to do that. I'd be fine showing someone my ID with my info covered if I'm buying something but not anything else.  If someone didn't want to sell me a gun without their added requirements fulfilled that's their right.  I wouldn't be bothered by it and I'd buy elsewhere.
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 10:04:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Brandi:
Personally I don't require any paperwork or other information because it's not required and I don't believe in adding my own requirements to something that shouldn't require them in the first place.  

A private sale is just that in my opinion.  There are way too many spurious and unconstitutional requirements placed on our second amendment rights already from the government, I don't need to add my own to them.  That said, I can understand why some people might be inclined to do that. I'd be fine showing someone my ID with my info covered if I'm buying something but not anything else.  If someone didn't want to sell me a gun without their added requirements fulfilled that's their right.  I wouldn't be bothered by it and I'd buy elsewhere.
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@brandi if you have anything cool to sell or trade tell me. I would do business with you. I’d even crack a bottle of shine first (or after) cause this is Georgia afterall
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 11:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2021 11:23:26 PM EDT by Brandi]
The only thing I'm considering parting with is S&W 469.  Awesome little gun but it's first and only time out it seemed to shoot way too high.  It may have been me as I had just bought it from a neighbor and was just shooting to function test it.

Still though, I'm normally a pretty good shot with a pistol so I dunno.  Covid hit before I could test it again and I'm not wasting ammo for that until things get better.

You'd have to mix it with something, I really dislike the taste of alcohol lol.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 8:23:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Brandi:
Personally I don't require any paperwork or other information because it's not required and I don't believe in adding my own requirements to something that shouldn't require them in the first place.  

I'd be fine showing someone my ID with my info covered if I'm buying something but not anything else.  If someone didn't want to sell me a gun without their added requirements fulfilled that's their right.  I wouldn't be bothered by it and I'd buy elsewhere.
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This.  All I would care about is seeing a valid WCL, only for the background investigation.  I don't need their address or contact info and if some "what if" scenario that they were prohibited and retained their WCL, that's not my concern...I sold on good faith and verified a valid, current WCL.  I would feel comfortable doing the same if buying.  

I just find it ironic that the government is less concerned about prohibited persons buying firearms and more concerned about who's selling them...well, it's not irony, it's their plan.

ROCK6
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 11:28:36 AM EDT
That's the government's thing...it's easier to stick laws on the people who aren't the problem than attempt to actually address the problem.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 12:43:27 PM EDT
cash and carry.

the key is "knowingly" selling to a prohibited person. The other person can lie you all they want, thats their problem, not yours. What people do with a gun after they buy it is their problem, not mine.

Hell I bought and sold a few guns on FB when I was living in SC. Had a MO DL, SC CWP, my shit was all over the place. No need for more paperwork than required by law.

Also, if it ever comes back up, sorry officer, sold that gun FTF years ago, don't remember who.

all those creating paper trails to "CYA" are just creating a de facto registration, IMO. and likely would support "reasonable gun control" laws.

FFL's shouldn't exist, gun licenses shouldn't exist.

Link Posted: 2/18/2021 12:48:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By IHTFP08:
cash and carry.

the key is "knowingly" selling to a prohibited person. The other person can lie you all they want, thats their problem, not yours. What people do with a gun after they buy it is their problem, not mine.

Hell I bought and sold a few guns on FB when I was living in SC. Had a MO DL, SC CWP, my shit was all over the place. No need for more paperwork than required by law.

Also, if it ever comes back up, sorry officer, sold that gun FTF years ago, don't remember who.

all those creating paper trails to "CYA" are just creating a de facto registration, IMO. and likely would support "reasonable gun control" laws.

FFL's shouldn't exist, gun licenses shouldn't exist.

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Yet they do, and it only gets worse from here.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 12:57:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WGTactical:


Yet they do, and it only gets worse from here.
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If you keep complying they'll keep pushing until you dont.

Link Posted: 2/18/2021 1:14:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 3:04:16 PM EDT
Not to mention that if you don't have a bill of sale, and a gun turns out to be hot, your lawyer bills will likely exceed the cost of that weapon by a very large amount.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 5:06:46 PM EDT
I've never required an ID check or bill of sale for any sales I've ever made.  But then I've only sold firearms on three occasions.  One was to a personal friend, one was to an FFL who had a table at a gun show, and one was to a private shopper at that same gun show, and I could tell that he was well over the age of 21.  He MAY have been a prohibited person, but based on the fact that he was shopping around at a gun show I just assumed he wasn't.  If it was a situation where I placed an ad, and some stranger answered that ad, I suppose I might want a bill of sale, or I might not.  I would just have to take a gut check and see how I felt.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 5:55:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emu:
Not to mention that if you don't have a bill of sale, and a gun turns out to be hot, your lawyer bills will likely exceed the cost of that weapon by a very large amount.
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I actually know someone this happened to, except he did have a BOS and was able to sidestep the subsequent legal proceedings.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 10:10:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2021 10:11:47 PM EDT by Dragracer_Art]
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16:


@brandi if you have anything cool to sell or trade tell me. I would do business with you. I’d even crack a bottle of shine first (or after) cause this is Georgia afterall
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@steviesterno16

Steve, I have a full size Kimber LW 1911 I would consider selling/trading if you were interested.
I know at one time you were big into 1911's. Dont recall if you were a Kimber fan or not.
Gun is still brand new, with box/papers. I tried running a couple mags thru it and had some feeding issues on a full mag.
Not sure if it is mag, ammo or spring related.
I know you personally... and have done background checks on you before... so no paperwork required for this one.

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Link Posted: 2/18/2021 10:41:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 10:44:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Emu:
Not to mention that if you don't have a bill of sale, and a gun turns out to be hot, your lawyer bills will likely exceed the cost of that weapon by a very large amount.
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No, not necessarily....unless you are a complete moron, at most it would *likely* just cost you the gun.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 12:34:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


No, not necessarily....unless you are a complete moron, at most it would *likely* just cost you the gun.

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Originally Posted By Jason280:
Originally Posted By Emu:
Not to mention that if you don't have a bill of sale, and a gun turns out to be hot, your lawyer bills will likely exceed the cost of that weapon by a very large amount.


No, not necessarily....unless you are a complete moron, at most it would *likely* just cost you the gun.


You, most obviously, are a far luckier fellow than I.

But then again, I am required, by law, to have a receipt for everything I buy. And I find that documentation is very cheap and effective insurance against a "receiving stolen merchandise charge."

I have always considered having to defend myself from .gov to be a losing proposition. Even when you win.
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