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Posted: 6/26/2022 3:49:28 PM EDT
Possible agenda items for the upcoming special session :

" ... Hochul said Friday she would like to see the state pass specific gun-free zones   schools, places of worship and events over a certain size, and that private places be gun-free unless they note otherwise. She'd like to see further requirements for the storage of a firearm, like in a vehicle, as well as additional permitting requirements, such as increased training prior to being eligible for a permit ..."

Would not be surprised to see things like these as well:

"Nassau Legislator Josh Lafazan, who is running for Congress, is calling for new measures to ban the concealed carry of handguns on all county properties. This new measure includes parks and beaches, NICE buses, and the campus of Nassau Community College   Suffolk County Executive Steve Bellone also announced Saturday a plan he says will strengthen Suffolk's red flag laws   Bellone wants the state to expand the scope of the state's red flag law, increase education and increase monitoring on social media."



Link Posted: 6/26/2022 5:49:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#1]
Lol.

So the state government can make up the mind of a private business unless they opt IN? They can't force private businesses to put up a pro gun sign.

I don't think so.

Ignore.
Link Posted: 6/26/2022 6:04:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bushman_269] [#2]
Aimless called it, she is worse than Il Douche.
Link Posted: 6/26/2022 7:03:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Aimless called it, she is worse than Il Douche.
View Quote



She’s aiming for the presidency.  You heard it here first.
Link Posted: 6/26/2022 7:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#4]
Public schools I see how they could restrict because it's state controlled.

The opt in to allow guns? No. You can't force private businesses to put up a sign to allow a legal activity.

Places of worship? Who are they to tell a church what to allow on their property?

And events over a certain size? Uh...Thomas specifically said population density / crowded places was no reason to deem it a sensitive area.

And training requirements? Those are gonna be tossed in the next couple years too, especially if the state makes them extremely hard to attend, expensive etc.

Training requirements are akin to a literacy test for voting or 1st amendment rights.

Sorry Hochul. Try again.
Link Posted: 6/26/2022 10:18:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Aimless called it, she is worse than Il Douche.
View Quote
Tucker Carlson called it before FUAC left
office last year. Said as bad as Cuomo was, his replacement was worse.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 12:49:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Bearing Arms has just posted an article  that California thinks it may have found a loophole in the current Bruen ruling and one that New York already has as well: "good moral character". The relevant guidance from AG Bonta states:

Existing public-carry policies of local law enforcement agencies across the state provide helpful examples of how to apply the "good moral character" requirement. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Office, for example, currently identifies several potential reasons why a public-carry license may be denied (or revoked), which include "[a]ny arrest in the last 5 years, regardless of the disposition" or "[a]ny conviction in the last 7 years." It is reasonable to consider such factors in evaluating an applicant's proof of the requisite moral character to safely carry firearms in public. See, e.g., Bruen (referencing "law-abiding citizens").

Other jurisdictions list the personal characteristics one reasonably expects of candidates for a public-carry license who do not pose a danger to themselves or others. The Riverside County Sheriff's Department's policy, for example, currently provides as follows: "Legal judgments of good moral character can include consideration of honesty, trustworthiness, diligence, reliability, respect for the law, integrity, candor, discretion, observance of fiduciary duty, respect for the rights of others, absence of hatred and racism, fiscal stability, profession-specific criteria such as pledging to honor the constitution and uphold the law, and the absence of criminal conviction." [Emphasis added.]
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I am not familiar with the rest of the state but Nassau County has rejected people for multiple traffic tickets, certain medications like Xanax and whatever else falls under "good moral character". The problem is, "good moral character" is a stated licensing requirement that was not addressed in Bruen. If New York goes this route, then it will certainly delay full implementation of Bruen until this nonsense gets slapped down too. Certainly not a slam dunk shutdown but an ongoing delay it would seem.

Link Posted: 6/27/2022 2:41:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fnub315] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Lol.

So the state government can make up the mind of a private business unless they opt IN? They can't force private businesses to put up a pro gun sign.

I don't think so.

Ignore.
View Quote
I read it as being all private business being declared a gun free zone but if they choose to allow guns then it would have to be posted. Basically the complete opposite of what it's like now.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 3:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#8]
Was lack of good moral character a reason they used to deny people the right to carry a gun in the 1790s?

I don't think so.

Sorry try again.


And they can't just automatically decide no guns for ALL private businesses, then say "well if you do allow guns, you have to pay for a sign"

Sorry that's not how this works NY.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 6:08:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 6:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Paywall.

But let the lawsuits begin against these onerous new requirements.

Training? Not seeing that happening in the 17 or 1800s.

And deeming public transit and places that serve alcohol as sensitive places? Not gonna fly.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 8:08:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I feel like the default stance on not allowing people to cc in private businesses unless they opt in and state they will allow them is the biggest issue. So basically any store etc would be a no go.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 8:14:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


I seriously don't get it. Sure seemed like the SCOTUS ruling was abundantly clear. I thought finally after all these years I would have a chance to get a permit without all the BS. At this point, they are absolutely going to make it impossible for a regular guy like me without 37 references from the same county that have known me forever, a class that takes a week + of my time, and a ridiculous fee.

Funny, I don't seem to remember them minding me being armed when I was toting a gun for my country. I was more free in the mountains of Afghanistan than I am in my own state. Fuck this place.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 9:33:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

I find it hard to believe that anything more than the "Three People in a Room" have agreed on a damn thing. Representatives from my Assemblyman and State Senators Office said they had NOTHING from the Governors Office, then again they're Republicans and second string in the eyes of the Democrats.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 10:21:08 PM EDT
[#14]
SCOTUS has no enforcement arm.  NY will do as they please.  Who’s going to stop them?
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 8:48:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tahawus] [#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Abom:
SCOTUS has no enforcement arm.  NY will do as they please.  Who’s going to stop them?
View Quote



This. In the near term, at least, this decision is contributing to a disaster for 2A rights in New York State. Particularly those from Upstate.

Live fire training requirements? I bet more than a few retired LEOs and county sheriffs are salivating at this new income opportunity.

Link Posted: 6/28/2022 9:12:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tahawus:



This. In the near term, at least, this decision is contributing to a disaster for 2A rights in New York State. Particularly those from Upstate.

Live fire training requirements? I bet more than a few retired LEOs and county sheriffs are salivating at this new income opportunity.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tahawus:
Originally Posted By Abom:
SCOTUS has no enforcement arm.  NY will do as they please.  Who’s going to stop them?



This. In the near term, at least, this decision is contributing to a disaster for 2A rights in New York State. Particularly those from Upstate.

Live fire training requirements? I bet more than a few retired LEOs and county sheriffs are salivating at this new income opportunity.



So we need to do what we did with the safe act... File an injunction to stay the law.

We don't just have ammo for an injunction this time, we have a rocket launcher.

This time around there's a clear standard of review for the Skretny types.
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 10:05:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:

So we need to do what we did with the safe act... File an injunction to stay the law.

We don't just have ammo for an injunction this time, we have a rocket launcher.

This time around there's a clear standard of review for the Skretny types.
View Quote
I think I can count on one finger (maybe) the number of times a court has stayed an anti-2A law. But a pro-2A law or ruling? They issue a stay before the ink is dry on the paper. Look at California and Maryland. Pro-2A rulings from the courts and they are immediately stayed because the state requests an en banc hearing that eventually rules in favor of the state. How many times was a pro-2A ruling by Judge Benitez stayed? I think every one of his rulings was (after their magazine freedom week) immediately stayed.
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 10:12:31 AM EDT
[#18]
How would live fire training work for people with disabilities? The deaf not able to hear commands, needing one on one instruction with hand signals or tapping on the shoulder. The wheelchair bound needing unobstructed shooting lanes to accommodate their low sitting positions. Can the ADA apply if it happens?
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 10:35:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: batjka104] [#19]
Do they plan to require all this training for the people who already possess a carry permit? How does that work? And let's not forget that there are only TWO types of permits in NYS - premises and carry. Even an administratively restricted permit is a carry permit. Everything else is mumbo-jumbo. I think whatever scheme they are coming up with will mostly apply to NYC residents who want to get a carry permit. Although, you never know with these geniuses.

Also, if I want to carry in my place of worship, who are they to tell me otherwise? And all these private businesses that are automatically exempted from allowing weapons in, are they going to have a safe to deposit people's weapons at the door and take responsibility for them?

How about restrictions on weapons on public transportation? If one has no other means to get to a certain place but public transport, not allowing him to carry on public transport is a denial of his right to carry in public as he's forced not to carry by the restriction. This will not pass muster.

I hope that there are lawyers sitting with their pens ready to file immediate lawsuits. Who should I send contributions to? We have to get prepared.
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 11:59:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#20]
They also can't ban carry on subways or buses or public transit...

With text history and tradition you have to make an analogy to something in history, if the technology didn't exist.

Did they ban the carry of guns on public highways or wagons or sailboats? Maybe one boat captain somewhere in history didn't let people carry a gun but it's definitely not in keeping with the history or tradition.

Sorry try again.
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 11:58:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradjk:


I seriously don't get it. Sure seemed like the SCOTUS ruling was abundantly clear. I thought finally after all these years I would have a chance to get a permit without all the BS. At this point, they are absolutely going to make it impossible for a regular guy like me without 37 references from the same county that have known me forever, a class that takes a week + of my time, and a ridiculous fee.

Funny, I don't seem to remember them minding me being armed when I was toting a gun for my country. I was more free in the mountains of Afghanistan than I am in my own state. Fuck this place.
View Quote


"Shall not be infringed" was abundantly clear but it took over 100 years for the USSC to give us something but this something still allows infringements in the form of hoops. Like I said in another thread someone needs to confront Kavanaugh and tell him his opinion on licensing is BS because to require this makes the 2nd a secondary right when compared to the First.
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 12:13:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:


"Shall not be infringed" was abundantly clear but it took over 100 years for the USSC to give us something but this something still allows infringements in the form of hoops. Like I said in another thread someone needs to confront Kavanaugh and tell him his opinion on licensing is BS because to require this makes the 2nd a secondary right when compared to the First.
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Kavanaugh was right though. This case does not address or even ask the question of licensing.

But, this decision does tee up a clear challenge to licensing. And we will win.

Link Posted: 6/29/2022 2:08:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Here's a list of "sensitive places" that Gov. Hochul says NY will ban guns from:
- Gov't buildings
- Health and medical facilities
- Places where children gather, incl. daycares, parks, zoos, playgrounds
- Public transportation
- Polling places
- Educational institutions


Link Posted: 6/29/2022 2:26:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nyrkba:
Here's a list of "sensitive places" that Gov. Hochul says NY will ban guns from:
- Gov't buildings
- Health and medical facilities
- Places where children gather, incl. daycares, parks, zoos, playgrounds
- Public transportation
- Polling places
- Educational institutions


View Quote


No history or tradition, no care.

Places where children gather? Parks playgrounds zoos? That's some bullshit and has no basis in history. Just makes another soft target zone like schools.

And public transportation? Good luck with that NY.
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:


No history or tradition, no care.

Places where children gather? Parks playgrounds zoos? That's some bullshit and has no basis in history. Just makes another soft target zone like schools.

And public transportation? Good luck with that NY.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Originally Posted By nyrkba:
Here's a list of "sensitive places" that Gov. Hochul says NY will ban guns from:
- Gov't buildings
- Health and medical facilities
- Places where children gather, incl. daycares, parks, zoos, playgrounds
- Public transportation
- Polling places
- Educational institutions




No history or tradition, no care.

Places where children gather? Parks playgrounds zoos? That's some bullshit and has no basis in history. Just makes another soft target zone like schools.

And public transportation? Good luck with that NY.



As I said in another thread, my suspicion is that they will pass these as law and they will stand until the day someone gets arrested and sues the state.

The end result of the SCOTUS decision is a net loss for those of us who have already been issued unrestricted pistol licenses.
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 6:08:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M-Aurelius] [#26]
The ruling specifically addressed putting the kinds of excessive requirements such as 15-20 hours of live fire training (and the expense) the legislature is said to be considering. No other shall issue state (which SCOTUS alluded to as the basis, although not ruling on the constitutionality of specific requirements) places those kinds of obstacles on their permit applicants. I therefore look forward to this getting expedited back to the court. Also if they exempt current carry permit holders from any new requirements they will have created an unequal and undo burden on those who in almost all cases passed the same requirements as existing carry permit holders but were denied their right to carry.

By the way, make sure you watch how various people vote in the legislature and remember it when you vote in November.
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