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Posted: 2/1/2021 6:12:32 PM EDT
We did a scouting mission last year and are thinking of renting in the Lutz/Wesley chapel area for a year prior to buying.  Any cool gun shops, ranges, secret food places?

We listed our house this morning and the realtor already has 14 showings booked for tomorrow!!

Daughter accepted to university of Tampa.

3 more conservative voters from the north.  No more Queen Bitch Whitmer!

Stress level elevated to 11 for sure
Link Posted: 2/1/2021 7:39:01 PM EDT
[#1]
My daughter is doing her internship/in classroom work in  a school in Wesley Chapel.  She loves it up there, and is hoping she gets hired once she graduates.
Link Posted: 2/1/2021 7:48:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Midwestern Yankees are always welcomed over New England Yankees.

Welcome.

Link Posted: 2/1/2021 7:53:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Welcome.

View Quote


Where the heck is Tampa?
Link Posted: 2/1/2021 7:54:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Midwestern Yankees are always welcomed over New England Yankees.

Welcome.

View Quote


Oh, sh!t.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 5:18:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Pasco = red county

Hillsborough = blue cess pool

UT is on the nice side of Tampa. Make sure you get pizza at Eddie & Sam's.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 7:56:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm in Hillsborough and it has been going blue, send red help ASAP.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 7:56:18 PM EDT
[#7]
they have a mission bbq. not bad for a fast food place.



Link Posted: 2/3/2021 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Awesome. Thx for the replies.  3 offers the first day of showings, all above ask!  Wading through this shit with the realtor is crazy.

Link Posted: 2/5/2021 4:22:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Be warned, any place you drive in the main parts of the Bay area you are going to have to deal with traffic. It is not as bad as it was pre-China flu, but it has been steadily picking back up.

Don't listen to anyone saying "you can get to anywhere in Tampa Bay in 20 min. from WC".

Having said that, it really depends on what you are into. There is alot to do with in an hour or so in and around the Tampa area.


Re-reading your post, if duaghter is going to live at home(assuming WC Lutz area) and goto Tampa U, that is going to be a drive on school days. No real quick way to get to down town from WC/Lutz.
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 7:48:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Where the heck is Tampa?
View Quote
He means Tompa...
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 11:49:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Update.


We are here, set up shop in Wesley Chapel at least for a year. Had a job interview today and think things went well. Would be slinging appliances for Tates hopefully.  

Things I have noticed

1. People drive even worse than in Michigan.  I would hate to be a pedestrian or biker and have to deal with all the fools running red lights.
2. People love loud assed exhausts and really want you to notice them. Reminded me of the fag episode of south park.
3. Lots of food options, pretty impressed
4.  Why does everything close so damn early? All the damn grocery stores are closed at 10. So much for my late night shopping at Meijer up north.
5.  Lots of hot ass everywhere, but lots of fat asses too. Oh well.


Questions

1. Best chain place to get new tires? I see places like Tire Kingdom and wondered who has the best reputation.

2.  Any good, not so busy beaches to check out? My daughter is dying to jump in the water.

get my car plates in the next couple of days so I won't stand out as a fucking yankee transplant.

Link Posted: 4/1/2021 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#12]
I'll be leaving MI for FL shortly here as well. Best of luck to you as you get settled in!
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 9:48:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
2.  Any good, not so busy beaches to check out? My daughter is dying to jump in the water.
View Quote


spend a day at Fort DeSoto park.  Has several beaches, plus a paddleboard/kayak rental shop.  Also has paved bike trail, campgrounds, lots of picnic shelters, and an old fort to explore.  And a dog beach.

official Park page

http://www.fortdesoto.com
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 10:51:10 AM EDT
[#14]
A second on Ft Desto Park. It is one of the best in the state.

Tarpon Springs, sponge docks for great Greek Food.

Mazzaro's in St Pete for an unreal Italian market experience.  Bring a cooler to bring stuff home.

For a special occasion celebration dinner, go to Bern's.  Do the tour and the dessert room.



Link Posted: 4/1/2021 12:00:18 PM EDT
[#15]
I am in St Pete and If you want beach time - best beaches are right here. St Pete beach, Treasure island, Madeira beach and so on up north.....Visit Clearwater Pier 60 and walk the area. But for Tampa residents its not few minutes trip. Go early - leave early. Best advise to avoid crowds and traffic.

Also , in Tampa, I found an urban farm. Pretty cool actually. They sell all kind of produce if you into that stuff. You can call in advance and ask them what is available.
link

Shooters world is a nice indoor range. Busy on weekend still.

Bush gardens having Food and Wine festival right now.

Link Posted: 4/1/2021 2:06:33 PM EDT
[#16]
The word Castor (mayor and congresswoman) rhymes with disaster for a reason.
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 4:20:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am in St Pete and If you want beach time - best beaches are right here. St Pete beach, Treasure island, Madeira beach and so on up north.....Visit Clearwater Pier 60 and walk the area. But for Tampa residents its not few minutes trip. Go early - leave early. Best advise to avoid crowds and traffic.


View Quote


There's a public beach with a nice parking lot in Indian Shores.  It's our go-to beach (10 mins away from us).

Tiki Gardens Park: 19583 Gulf Blvd, Indian Shores, FL 33785.  Park there, walk across the street to the beach.   It's a pay by the hour parking; I think the meter takes credit/debit cards but bring a bunch of quarters to stuff into the machine just in case.
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 5:10:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Costco for tires.

If you get the job at Famous Tate's send me a private message, I may soon be in the market for a refrigerator and a washer/dryer set.
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 7:20:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The word Castor (mayor and congresswoman) rhymes with disaster for a reason.
View Quote


Jane and Kathy are unrelated, he is in Pasco, no dealing with Jane.
Link Posted: 4/1/2021 8:53:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks for all the info.  Tates is emailing me a job offer and if I agree I start orientation the 12th. Good times.

We tried the Cuban sandwich shop on Florida ave and the roast pork sandwich was excellent.


Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:49:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Midwestern Yankees are always welcomed over New England Yankees.

Welcome.

View Quote


thank god.. :)
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 2:18:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for all the info.  Tates is emailing me a job offer and if I agree I start orientation the 12th. Good times.

We tried the Cuban sandwich shop on Florida ave and the roast pork sandwich was excellent.


View Quote
La Segunda bakery on Kennedy has amazing Cubans
Link Posted: 4/4/2021 2:27:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Next question


I secured car insurance through Progressive but we still have MI drivers licenses and auto titles and registration.

I printed the application for titles but it asks for FL drivers license info.

Is the proper sequence to get licenses prior to getting new plates and titles?


I certainly do not want to go the hell that appears to be the Wesley chapel DMV and get told I have to go back.


Any input from prior transplants would be greatly appreciated.

Link Posted: 4/4/2021 3:37:04 PM EDT
[#24]
IIRC I just went to the DMV with everything I could think they might possibly need. They say you must register your vehicle within 7 days of moving here if you have a job, no job and you get 30 days ( ). I think I waited a month or so for both, Nobody seemed to care.
We have some weird motor vehicle laws here and of course we don't have that Michigan left turn thing in these parts.
Vehicle inspection consists of them looking at your car to make sure the VIN matches the one on the title.
If you have your title you must also have documentation that there is no lien on it. If there is a lien, well, I dunno, Ididn't have to go through that.
Link Posted: 4/4/2021 6:35:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
IIRC I just went to the DMV with everything I could think they might possibly need. They say you must register your vehicle within 7 days of moving here if you have a job, no job and you get 30 days ( ). I think I waited a month or so for both, Nobody seemed to care.
We have some weird motor vehicle laws here and of course we don't have that Michigan left turn thing in these parts.
Vehicle inspection consists of them looking at your car to make sure the VIN matches the one on the title.
If you have your title you must also have documentation that there is no lien on it. If there is a lien, well, I dunno, Ididn't have to go through that.
View Quote



MI has the lienholder right on the title so I think I am good there.  Just did not want to get there with the title applications filled out and them saying to get a Florida DL first.


Link Posted: 4/5/2021 5:20:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Florida insurance first, it'll probably be more expensive than from anywhere else. Then license, then registration. Other than insurance, you get all that done at the tax collectors office, cost me around $500 to transfer one car and get a 2 year registration. And every office is going to suck, make an appointment online and just plan on spending the day there. Some tax collectors offices also do ccw so you could even try to roll that in the same day.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 9:20:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Pre-covid DMV was a surprise for us. We were at 66str N DMV in St pete, by appointment for DL first time and plates second time, and were in and out in a matter of 20-30 minutes. No waiting time at all. Literally show your appointment to a person and invited to the desk right away.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 11:42:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
We did a scouting mission last year and are thinking of renting in the Lutz/Wesley chapel area for a year prior to buying.  Any cool gun shops, ranges, secret food places?

We listed our house this morning and the realtor already has 14 showings booked for tomorrow!!

Daughter accepted to university of Tampa.

3 more conservative voters from the north.  No more Queen Bitch Whitmer!

Stress level elevated to 11 for sure
View Quote


This will seem like a plodding rant but give some thought to what I'm about to say and it will serve you well.

As a settled territory Florida is older than the united states.
And it's socially and politically still part of the South, also older than the US and the source of American political philosophy.
The US wasn't created by guys vandalizing tea in new England or getting into fights with red coats in concord.
Caviler Virginians created the political structure of the country and forged the relationship with France that facilitated victory.
The political culture you're leaving has failed because of its fundamental values, not because it was hijacked by a few leftists.
Egalitarian "justice" over meritocracy, collective rights, nationalism, and submission to authority are not virtues and the flood of political refugees moving south is insurmountable proof.
You are conservative in MI, but you are not conservative here.

Florida isn't a frontier.
In nearly all cases the "progress" and development happening here isn't the creation of anything new, but it supplants more valuable ecosystems and some of the finest agricultural lands on earth.
The area northern developers call Wesley Chapel sits on top of land that used to be someone's home, farm or grave.
Come here and become part of the community, but remember that we don't need your help.
Buying a 1/4 acre with a cookie-cutter house on it doesn't actually put you on equal footing with people who represent generations of lives invested in this place.
If you can't accept that the rules and laws here are different than what you're used to, and but ok with it, in coming here you'd be doing the same thing leftists who drive you away from your home have done.

Most importantly, don't be offended.
If you were from the northeast I wouldn't bother saying anything.
Midwesterners are decent people, act like a guest and in time you won't be.

Link Posted: 4/6/2021 12:07:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This will seem like a plodding rant
View Quote


It seems exactly how you describe it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2021 1:59:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This will seem like a plodding rant but give some thought to what I'm about to say and it will serve you well.

As a settled territory Florida is older than the united states.
And it's socially and politically still part of the South, also older than the US and the source of American political philosophy.
The US wasn't created by guys vandalizing tea in new England or getting into fights with red coats in concord.
Caviler Virginians created the political structure of the country and forged the relationship with France that facilitated victory.
The political culture you're leaving has failed because of its fundamental values, not because it was hijacked by a few leftists.
Egalitarian "justice" over meritocracy, collective rights, nationalism, and submission to authority are not virtues and the flood of political refugees moving south is insurmountable proof.
You are conservative in MI, but you are not conservative here.

Florida isn't a frontier.
In nearly all cases the "progress" and development happening here isn't the creation of anything new, but it supplants more valuable ecosystems and some of the finest agricultural lands on earth.
The area northern developers call Wesley Chapel sits on top of land that used to be someone's home, farm or grave.
Come here and become part of the community, but remember that we don't need your help.
Buying a 1/4 acre with a cookie-cutter house on it doesn't actually put you on equal footing with people who represent generations of lives invested in this place.
If you can't accept that the rules and laws here are different than what you're used to, and but ok with it, in coming here you'd be doing the same thing leftists who drive you away from your home have done.

Most importantly, don't be offended.
If you were from the northeast I wouldn't bother saying anything.
Midwesterners are decent people, act like a guest and in time you won't be.

View Quote



I said this on another thread and Ill say it again here: I'm from NY, and as far as I'm concerned I won't be welcome until I prove I'm no longer from NY.
I've spent the last 7 months going out of my way to make sure people realize that my tenacity and aggression is well suited to "Keeping Florida Great." This includes joining a parish and donating every week, joining and paying dues to Saltwaters Shooting club, donating to Desantis' reelection campaign, and volunteer coaching youth baseball. As Arron Lewis says "There are rednecks north of the Mason Dixon."

I may not ride a motorcycle, smoke or chew, wear roper boots or or go mudding - but I can promise the red in me scares plenty of queasy North Easterners.


That said - I'm personally not offended by your statement. I moved here for that attitude. I moved here so my kids would grow up living in free air and learn to be a "local." Then NY will be gone out of them.

In the mean time - I humbly ask that you do the MLK thing... Judge me by the content of my character.

Link Posted: 4/6/2021 7:35:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I said this on another thread and Ill say it again here: I'm from NY, and as far as I'm concerned I won't be welcome until I prove I'm no longer from NY.
I've spent the last 7 months going out of my way to make sure people realize that my tenacity and aggression is well suited to "Keeping Florida Great." This includes joining a parish and donating every week, joining and paying dues to Saltwaters Shooting club, donating to Desantis' reelection campaign, and volunteer coaching youth baseball. As Arron Lewis says "There are rednecks north of the Mason Dixon."

I may not ride a motorcycle, smoke or chew, wear roper boots or or go mudding - but I can promise the red in me scares plenty of queasy North Easterners.


That said - I'm personally not offended by your statement. I moved here for that attitude. I moved here so my kids would grow up living in free air and learn to be a "local." Then NY will be gone out of them.

In the mean time - I humbly ask that you do the MLK thing... Judge me by the content of my character.


View Quote



well stated.  Other than "some of these fuckers drive like retards" I am acting the part of trying to add to Florida, not take from it. We plan to join the Pasco Co GOP with intention of trying to support candidates that do right by the state, not just themselves.

Moving from MI was not purely a politically driven decision. It was a perfect storm of a good sellers housing situation, my wife's boss closing his practice and retiring, my daughter going to school down here and myself being miserable commuting 130 miles 5 days a week.
Link Posted: 4/7/2021 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



"some of these fuckers drive like retards"
View Quote


Just remember most of the fuckers here came from somewhere else.
Link Posted: 4/7/2021 11:36:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Just remember most of the fuckers here came from somewhere else.
View Quote



guilty..... I will try to do better
Link Posted: 4/7/2021 10:57:30 PM EDT
[#34]
I will be moving to Wimauma in the fall. Any cool places/suggestions/things to be on the lookout for?
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 9:40:18 AM EDT
[#35]
I like Wesley Chapel, and Pasco county in general in terms of the greater Tampa area.
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 11:13:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I will be moving to Wimauma in the fall. Any cool places/suggestions/things to be on the lookout for?
View Quote
Look out for cars with yellow license plates, those are the ones trying to kill you
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 2:11:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This will seem like a plodding rant but give some thought to what I'm about to say and it will serve you well.

As a settled territory Florida is older than the united states.
And it's socially and politically still part of the South, also older than the US and the source of American political philosophy.
The US wasn't created by guys vandalizing tea in new England or getting into fights with red coats in concord.
Caviler Virginians created the political structure of the country and forged the relationship with France that facilitated victory.
The political culture you're leaving has failed because of its fundamental values, not because it was hijacked by a few leftists.
Egalitarian "justice" over meritocracy, collective rights, nationalism, and submission to authority are not virtues and the flood of political refugees moving south is insurmountable proof.
You are conservative in MI, but you are not conservative here.

Florida isn't a frontier.
In nearly all cases the "progress" and development happening here isn't the creation of anything new, but it supplants more valuable ecosystems and some of the finest agricultural lands on earth.
The area northern developers call Wesley Chapel sits on top of land that used to be someone's home, farm or grave.
Come here and become part of the community, but remember that we don't need your help.
Buying a 1/4 acre with a cookie-cutter house on it doesn't actually put you on equal footing with people who represent generations of lives invested in this place.
If you can't accept that the rules and laws here are different than what you're used to, and but ok with it, in coming here you'd be doing the same thing leftists who drive you away from your home have done.

Most importantly, don't be offended.
If you were from the northeast I wouldn't bother saying anything.
Midwesterners are decent people, act like a guest and in time you won't be.

View Quote


What about us westerners? I just made the move to the Keys two days ago.
Link Posted: 4/11/2021 12:11:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Start my orientation at Tates Monday. Nervous but know that its the same selling all over the world. Hit Ft. Desoto park and it was awesome. We kayaked first, saw a dolphin and manatee, then hit North beach and walked up a quarter mile or so to avoid the crowds. Water was nice and the kids had a great time. Next day met up with a buddy on vacation and hit Clam pass beach in Naples. Winds were kicking but it made for some waves to have some fun with.

Daughter starts working at sunglass hut next week, and my new Michelin Defender LTX's are on the way to Costco.


so far, so good.


For BBQ, we like hungry harry's in Land o lakes. If anyone has something better, let me know.

First watch for breakfast was pretty solid too.


Link Posted: 4/13/2021 1:22:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


For BBQ, we like hungry harry's in Land o lakes. If anyone has something better, let me know.

View Quote


Deep South in Brooksville
4 Rivers in a few places in Tampa
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 10:18:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Deep South in Brooksville
4 Rivers in a few places in Tampa
View Quote



I drove past a 4 rivers the other day, will have to try.

Link Posted: 4/16/2021 6:45:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


For BBQ, we like hungry harry's in Land o lakes. If anyone has something better, let me know.

First watch for breakfast was pretty solid too.


View Quote


Haven't tried Hungry Harry's yet even though it's right by my house. There is a Mission BBQ in Tampa that's good for a chain BBQ place.

Breakfast try Kiki's. They have a few locations. The Breakfast Nook in Land O Lakes is also good.

Cuban food there is a place in Lutz called The Latin Spot. It's in a Latin grocery store. Not much seating so grab a plate and go.

In The Shops at Wiregrass there is place called Chuck Lager that my wife and I like.

Esposito's for Italian is really good.
Link Posted: 4/16/2021 7:16:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I will be moving to Wimauma in the fall. Any cool places/suggestions/things to be on the lookout for?
View Quote


Use to work the FRS station in Wimauma sometimes. Little MEXICO driving 674 through  Wimauma. Though new construction along 301 outside of Wimauma. Has a Wimauma address but is more Sun City Center and Riverview than Wimauma. Unless you live East of Wimauma on or off of 674.

I live in area and love kayaking and fishing. Plus there is GUN CRAFT  off of 674 on 24th just west of I-75, building is going nuts here. Plus you can fish the skyway bridge. Other than fishing nothing really to do here. Unless you drive to Tampa or Brandon if you want club. No bars with pool tables any more. Unless you join the Moose club. Oh yeah Little Manatee State Park South on 301 to Sundance about 10 minutes from 674 kayak rentals and camping. Also Simmons Park in Ruskin fishing, kayaking and picnic areas. Blue crabbing also. 3 boats ramps in area too. Look up county ramps. Lots of restraunts at 301 and Big Bend area plus Sam's Club

15 years ago entire area was a quite SOUTHERN area. It's turning into another Brandon/Valrico a friggin nightmare.

Thinking of selling and moving to Polk county. My wife and I are from Plant City and moved to South Hillsborough county because Plant City was getting to crowded. Lived here in South County for 26 years.

Traffic is getting really bad here now. Saw cars backed up for at least 5 miles or more during rush hour at 41 and Gibsonton Dr. I'd not been that way during rush hour in years. Could not believe it. At least 5 mile back up to turn onto Gibsonton. 301 in Wimauma during rush hour you could not pay me to drive. I love red flashing lights and sirens.

All jokes aside. It is really sad to see the areas being destroyed not by building new homes. But over development of areas by these hugh housing communities.

Btw sink holes are prevalent around Hillsborough county be sure to check area. They can swallow an entire house. Even you while in bed sleeping. That happened a few years back.

Tampa moved alot of their housing project residents down here also under section 8 housing into alot of the new subdivisions. I'd check that out before buying. Of coarse crime spiked when they did this.

Honest long term opinion
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 1:58:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Thank you for the info. It does seem there are pros/cons to all areas.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Use to work the FRS station in Wimauma sometimes. Little MEXICO driving 674 through  Wimauma. Though new construction along 301 outside of Wimauma. Has a Wimauma address but is more Sun City Center and Riverview than Wimauma. Unless you live East of Wimauma on or off of 674.

I live in area and love kayaking and fishing. Plus there is GUN CRAFT  off of 674 on 24th just west of I-75, building is going nuts here. Plus you can fish the skyway bridge. Other than fishing nothing really to do here. Unless you drive to Tampa or Brandon if you want club. No bars with pool tables any more. Unless you join the Moose club. Oh yeah Little Manatee State Park South on 301 to Sundance about 10 minutes from 674 kayak rentals and camping. Also Simmons Park in Ruskin fishing, kayaking and picnic areas. Blue crabbing also. 3 boats ramps in area too. Look up county ramps. Lots of restraunts at 301 and Big Bend area plus Sam's Club

15 years ago entire area was a quite SOUTHERN area. It's turning into another Brandon/Valrico a friggin nightmare.

Thinking of selling and moving to Polk county. My wife and I are from Plant City and moved to South Hillsborough county because Plant City was getting to crowded. Lived here in South County for 26 years.

Traffic is getting really bad here now. Saw cars backed up for at least 5 miles or more during rush hour at 41 and Gibsonton Dr. I'd not been that way during rush hour in years. Could not believe it. At least 5 mile back up to turn onto Gibsonton. 301 in Wimauma during rush hour you could not pay me to drive. I love red flashing lights and sirens.

All jokes aside. It is really sad to see the areas being destroyed not by building new homes. But over development of areas by these hugh housing communities.

Btw sink holes are prevalent around Hillsborough county be sure to check area. They can swallow an entire house. Even you while in bed sleeping. That happened a few years back.

Tampa moved alot of their housing project residents down here also under section 8 housing into alot of the new subdivisions. I'd check that out before buying. Of coarse crime spiked when they did this.

Honest long term opinion
View Quote

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