It seems Pinellas County is bragging about how many guns they have stolen from individuals. Even a social media post is enough to have your guns stolen by the cops in this state now.

https://hubs.ly/H0gFgb80

Those red flag laws are an infringement on freedom of speech.

Serious question... please.

What should be done, if anything, if a person makes legitimate and credible threats to do violence? Clear & Convincing, which is the current legal standard with the current law, is much more than a he said/she said.

Under the "Shall Not Be Infringed" battle cry should we ignore legitimate warning signs and threats? Like those that generally come to light via the media AFTER an incident happens? Or... should we try to avert incidents IF sincerely credible information is known, processed, and verified?

I ask because once or twice a year in my job I encounter people who are legitimate powder kegs... it really is a honest to god real life problem.

Apparently Pinellas County is inexplicably overly populated with folks who present "clear and convincing threats which meet the current legal standard of the current  law."

It's statistically uncanny.

Or logically, the law of statistics dictates that  there's another factor in play in Pinellas County; and the latter is almost certainly the case.

The part in large print is where the straw man lives; "clear and convincing, which is the current legal standard within the current law".

The judges don't say no very often, if at all.

Apparently they're all  very easily "clearly convinced" which meets the legal standard to suspend the rights of Floridians"..

Sorry; but I'm not a believer in pre-crime, especially when it's only enforced against gun owners and in fact, I believe it's evil.

The dirtbag who murdered the school kids at Stoneman Douglas and who precipitated this pre-crime BS fell through the cracks of existing laws as well as the lack of professionalism of The Broward County Sheriff's Department and the county school board.

Not to mention the liberal anti gun cabal who don't want teachers to have the option of being armed to protect their kids, even after stringent training.

From the article.

"The law allows law enforcement to ask a court to take away someone's gun rights for one year if they're determined to be a threat to themselves or others.

Sgt. Jason Schmittendorf believes tragedies have been prevented due to these pre-emptive measures. More than 400 guns have been removed from Pinellas County streets as a result of the orders.

"This law gives law enforcement the ability," Schmittendorf said. "To try and predict, try and pick out, try and locate the next person who may be the suspect of a similar situation."

"More than 400 guns have been removed from Pinellas County Streets as a result of the orders";   ostensibly from the hands of demonstrably dangerous fiends, each of whom, had been declared to have "met the legal standard",  so therefore; it follows that it's likely that literally thousands of lives have been saved......in Pinellas County alone.

In truth, it's honey coated tyranny, and riddled with gun grabbing government over reach; the vanguard of further and honorous encroachment on the legitimate gun rights of all Floridians.

It's part and parcel of the death knell for gun rights in our state.

And yes; it represents an undeniable encroachment with a chilling effect on freedom of speech,  since folks now need to be wary of what they say in front of others, either in person, or on social media.

Ok...thanks for the reply.

Pinellas county has had a succession of anti-gun sheriffs Evert Rice, Jim Coats and the current sheriff Bob Guitieri (sp?)
One can expect this to worsen over time.

Jeez.

It's like the Minority Report, with the same ending, the reports can be manipulated.
"The Future Can Be Seen. Murder Can be Prevented. The Guilty Punished Before the Crime is Committed. The System is Perfect. It's Never Wrong. Until It Comes After You."

How many people based upon your post have you reported.

It really has nothing to do with the 2nd ADMENDMENT. It has to do with DUE PROCESS OF THE LAW.  Which is ZERO.

I'm taking alway your rights because you've gotten pissed off and said something we don't like. We understand though you've not broken any laws. But you MIGHT.

How many people have gotten pissed off and said something they had no INTENTIONS of doing. But you were just so mad at the time.

But we the new SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY will decide that. Not you, besides this is a great way to CONFISCATE firearms. Yea not only can the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY VIOLATE the 2nd ADMENDMENT they can VIOLATE a bunch of other admendments too like the 4th.

But according to your attitude. This law will never never be used against INNOCIENT AMERICANS to VIOLATE their rights. There's powder kegs out there.

Since when has the government never abused the AMERICAN CITIZENS RIGHTS.

The DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY will not stop until you, me and every AMERICAN CITIZEN is disarmed.

Just listen to them now, how they act since they lost an election and from day one it's been nothing about getting rid of a Republican President. Next will be the VP then who will be POTUS.

Can you spell AMERICA SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT and unarmed AMERICA. They know that unless they can disarm all of AMERICA.
There will be a war. But they are too stupid to realize that the disarming of AMERICA will cause the war.

But not by those like you. You've already agreed to give away your rights or agreed to.

The PROBLEM is everything is a credible threat now. Did any of those powder kegs explode you described. Hell there's powder kegs that wear a badge and have exploded and gotten away with hiding behind the badge.

But the way you talk only LEO can be trusted, only government can be trusted. When are idiots going to get into their heads. That mankind had been around for hundreds of thousands of years and have always killed.

You can not stopped men from killing one another. No matter what you do. But history has shown the first step to a SOCIALIST, DIRECTORSHIP OR KINGS is disarmament of the population.

Then arming their thugs to keep the population in line.

That goes back to the beginning of recorded history.

You just admitted that it's OK TO VIOLATE THE BILL OF RIGHTS. IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL SAFE. I guess I'm a danger now for posting this. I bet they'd consider me a danger in Pinellas. Simply for disagreeing with them and post this. If I lived there. When I've done nothing wrong. Remember in their own words they can predict who will commit crimes. When no crime has actually been committed.  Is that OK.

What should be done, if anything, if a person makes legitimate and credible threats to do violence? Clear & Convincing,

Problem with this is who determines what a threat is. A DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS ANTI GUN JUDGE

How many times have we heard judges say, " I can do whatever I want. How many of these have been denied against INNOCIENT AMERICANS

It all seems like a real good way to make all 2A supporters quiet. Open your mouth about "Molon Labe" or whatever and now they have a reason to come and take them.

Zero.

ETA- despite what your long rant suggested, I'm not ignorant to the fact such laws can be abused and not utilized to the fullest extent that supports/protects the 2nd. I've openly posted over the years I'm border line anti-police even though I am LE because of abuses.

Just Friday night I instructed a family to give their elderly father back his gun despite their concerns that he is showing signs of mental instability and depression after losing his wife. They came to the Sheriff's Office after hours and approached me in the parking lot. They just left a local Police Department where an officer told them to keep it. I told them not to play "what if" and give him back his gun. I can forward you a "thank you" text I got from them last night saying they gave the gun back and the father was grateful if you like.

Some years ago I posted on here about telling the Fire Department to fuck off over a car crash where a fellow ARFCOM member had his guns and ammo scattered all down I-75 after a crash. Fire wanted me to "investigate" and seize the firearms and ammo as "no one carries that many guns and that much ammo without being up to something". Some here might remember it. I carefully packed each firearm, as if they were my own, and the ARFCOM'er later came and got them.

Some years ago, I got into a radio pissing match with a Chief of Police of a local Police Department because a lady was trying to turn in her mother's pistol because she had been subject to a Baker Act.  I told the Chief they had no business taking the pistol let alone giving it to the daughter. I refused to take the pistol and the Chief tried to insinuate over the radio it's state law... I called Bull Shit... and the daughter left with the pistol. Mom got her pistol back three days later.

I've always steered away from taking firearms when initiating a Baker Act, even if it was part of the reason for the Baker Act, and always caught heat over it. Now days, it's part of our Legal Guidance... DO NOT TAKE FIREARMS... period.

I'd say all in all in my career I've had about 10 like incidents so my conscience is quite clear when it come to being a 2nd supporter.

I understand your points, I just believe there can be times where limited intervention under very select circumstances could prove beneficial... we can agree to disagree.

"This law gives law enforcement the ability," Schmittendorf said. "To try and predict, try and pick out, try and locate the next person who may be the suspect of a similar situation."

"More than 400 guns have been removed from Pinellas County Streets as a result of the orders"; ostensibly from the hands of demonstrably dangerous fiends, each of whom, had been declared to have "met the legal standard", so therefore; it follows that it's likely that literally thousands of lives have been saved......in Pinellas County alone.

How can that be(the bold)? Blatant BS.
If it was a real problem before the law, Pinellas would have seemed like a war zone, had more murders than Shitcago, been national news, and tourism would have been in the crapper.  
To me, another instance of a solution that they found a problem for.

Oh, and the "if it saves one life, it's for the chillruns". If that was true, then why can we drive more than 45mph without special permits that can only be give when special advanced training is done and a process of evaluation(mental health check, state trooper approval....) is done. We are not telling you you can not drive, just reasonable restrictions(sound familiar). Thousands of lives a year would truly be saved if the max speed limit was 45mph.

"Oh but that is not the same", bullshit says I, it is the same. About the same amount of people are killed in car crashes as are killed with firearms, but yet how many cars are there compared to how many firearms there are? The answer is, about the same. So if one is a problem so is the other and both should be looked at equally.

It is rhetorical though, we all know it is not really about saving lives, if it was then medical mistakes would be front and center as considerably more lives are lost to it. In the case of medical mistake, tens of thousands more lives could be saved. This was put out in 2014  "Preventable medical errors persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year, but also called attention to the fact that these medical errors cost the nation a colossal $1 trillion each year"(from Healthcarenews.com).

These laws are just another cog in the wheel of disarmament.

In another life when I was a LEO in Wisc., a person could be "chaptered" by law enforcement in they were thought to be a threat to themselves or others.  That meant 72 hrs. in a mental institution to be examined by "professionals" to determine if they were headed off the reservation.  If they were deemed incompetent, they were held and treated.  If not they were released.  I'd assume FL has a similar statute.  A judge would hear evidence and decide if any firearms needed to be secured.  So there already are tools in place.  This new law is just total bullshit and painted to look like something it isn't.

Yes, it is called being Baker Acted.

I apologize for saying that to you. I should not have been so hard on a fellow member.

But this RED FLAG LAW is total B.S. and violates so many CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS its not funny.

Given the fact especially when you have a ANTI GUN L.E. AGENGIES and JUDGES.

That will absolutely use this again unconstitutional law as a means to disarm AMERICANS and further their ANTI GUN ADGENDA.

Like any other law as this. It will not do squat to stop any crime or killing.

You know what's sad. Man has been around for a couple hundred thousand years. You'd think in that time we'd learn something.

But we've not learned a damn thing. Man still kills one another over the same things today as they did back then.

But what's even worse. Is there are a group that actually BELIEVES you can CONTROL/CHANGE MAN'S MINDSET. Simply by taking away or banning a tool. One tool that in of it's self does nothing by it's self.

Man kills man using what ever means he can find.

So these fools believe now they can be fortune tellers and predict who will commit crimes simply by what a person says. Better put for being asses.

How many people have said things in anger for whatever reason. Yet in realty never ever had any intentions of doing anything.

How many people have said that person should be wacked for whatever reason and if I had a chance I'd do it. Knowing full well they're just full of it.

Now your GUILTY of a CRIME BEFORE ACTUALLY COMMITTING A CRIME and basically on the words of a judge not your peers found GUILTY

Now if your LIBERAL SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS neighbors or relatives hear your say something they do not like and as always interpid unjustly in their SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS PARTY MINDS.

You can possibly lose your rights. PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT SAY IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

If someone depending on where you live turns you in. Such as the ANTI GUN PINELLAS COUNTY. THEY WILL COME AFTER YOU.

REMEMBER PINELLAS COUNTY WAS THE COUNTY THAT TRIED TO BAN SO CALLED ASSAULT RIFLES. Even though it was against Florida's Law to do so.

That Sheriff in PINELLAS COUNTY is one of the most anti gun L.E. OFFICIALS in the state and leads the state in RED FLAG CONFISCATIONS.

Not necessary... I fully understand where you're coming from.

Baker Act commitments are largely a waste of time.  I've taken people that were clearly mentally ill/in crisis to a receiving facility and had them back home within 4 to 6 hours.  The places are full and as long as you give the doctors the warm and fuzzy feeling that you won't kill yourself or anyone else, they'll send you home.

I'm not defending Red Flag laws.