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Posted: 6/12/2021 10:47:27 PM EDT
My pops is a felon. Hasnt gotten into trouble in a long time. He's like 72 and wants a shotgun. Does texas have a time period if he hasn't gotten into trouble,  he could own one again after 5 / 10 years?

And help would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 11:04:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2021 11:05:20 PM EDT by 762AR25]
5 years.  So the state won't prosecute you just have to worry about the feds.

Whoever "sells" him the gun will also have to be careful.

Pretty sure it can only be in his home too.
Link Posted: 6/12/2021 11:54:55 PM EDT
"That's my wife's father's shotgun. She passed away 20-odd years ago. Is this a problem?"

Link Posted: 6/13/2021 12:08:48 AM EDT
Might be easier to go to court and get his record expunged. Something tells me your dad’s felony conviction might be for something that is now a misdemeanor.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:26:38 AM EDT
State law below. Federal considers him prohibited.

Sec. 46.04.  UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM.  (a)  A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1)  after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later;  or
(2)  after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives...
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:59:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By StealthCRF:
State law below. Federal considers him prohibited.


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Originally Posted By StealthCRF:
State law below. Federal considers him prohibited.

Sec. 46.04.  UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM.  (a)  A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1)  after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later;  or
(2)  after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives...



The Texas law may be from before the GCA of 1968. That was where the Fed was the law banning felons from owning firearms.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 4:29:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By StealthCRF:
State law below. Federal considers him prohibited.


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Not smart with this stuff...I'm I reading it right? If its been 5 years he can have one only in his home?
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 7:41:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2021 7:41:50 AM EDT by ManiacRat461]
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Originally Posted By tooly:

Not smart with this stuff...I'm I reading it right? If its been 5 years he can have one only in his home?
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Only under state law, but yes. Federal does not have this provision. So he can still be hemmed up under federal law. Not necessarily that he will. The ATF doesn't take cases all the time depending on the felony conviction and number of, but it can still happen.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 8:55:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By tooly:

Not smart with this stuff...I'm I reading it right? If its been 5 years he can have one only in his home?
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Originally Posted By tooly:
Originally Posted By StealthCRF:
State law below. Federal considers him prohibited.



Not smart with this stuff...I'm I reading it right? If its been 5 years he can have one only in his home?



NO! The Texas law was probably around long before the Federal law before the Gun Control Act of 1968 a felon could buy and possess a firearm, just like you could buy a gun and have it shipped directly to your house.

Only firearms a felon may have are black powder firearms.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 10:32:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:



NO! The Texas law was probably around long before the Federal law before the Gun Control Act of 1968 a felon could buy and possess a firearm, just like you could buy a gun and have it shipped directly to your house.

Only firearms a felon may have are black powder firearms.
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You're posting as if the Texas law is invalid. It is not invalid. If you meet the exceptions to the above statute you will not be tried in a state court. I would say not arrested also but there are some thick headed officers out there who don't fully understand the statute. DA's across the state refuse these cases all the time.

The ATF can still do something. But in my
experience, more often than not, they don't. Most of the people who fall under this are now normal
folks who made some stupid decisions.

Do I think it's smart to play in this gray area, hell no. Because just because the ATF typically don't go after these folks, doesn't mean they won't.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 11:52:58 AM EDT
Not sugar coating this...your father is a FELON.  He should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime.  A FELON having access to a firearm is a NO GO in my book.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 12:15:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tooly:
My pops is a felon. Hasnt gotten into trouble in a long time. He's like 72 and wants a shotgun.    
View Quote

<----FFL
As mentioned above, under federal law your father cannot legally possess a firearm. If he goes to a licensed gun dealer, fills out the Form 4473 he'll have to answer truthfully that he's a felon, in which case the dealer will deny the sale. The dealer won't even bother with the FBI NICS background check. If your father were to lie on the 4473, the dealer runs the NICS check, he will be denied. Being that he lied on the 4473 he commits another felony.

If your father asks you to get a gun for him, YOU commit a federal crime by providing a firearm to a person you know to be prohibited. While its legal to gift a gun to someone....they can't be otherwise prohibited. If caught, you'll never own a gun again.


Does texas have a time period if he hasn't gotten into trouble,  he could own one again after 5 / 10 years?
View Quote

Forget Texas law, Federal law still applies.


Link Posted: 6/13/2021 12:29:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Not sugar coating this...your father is a FELON.  He should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime.  A FELON having access to a firearm is a NO GO in my book.
View Quote



Link Posted: 6/13/2021 12:41:19 PM EDT
If said felon is only needing or using his shotgun to defend him and his family, not committing any crimes, then by all means follow Texas law "in my book".

However, acquiring a brand new shotgun from an FFL wouldn't be prudent, "in my book".

Shouldn't need to worry about any of that, if you're dad is not out and about with the shotgun.

If the day comes that he needs to use it for self defense, then regardless of what the Fed law says, it will be a happy day he's not dead!
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:06:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2021 1:07:52 PM EDT by tooly]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Not sugar coating this...your father is a FELON.  He should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime.  A FELON having access to a firearm is a NO GO in my book.
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No sugar coating shit either....Yup, nam and drinking and all the drugs,  fuck his dumb ass up! Wasnt a good father either. He's getting older...and cant thump motherfuckers like he could. So the man wants a shotgun. All the shit hes done...think the charges are for drinking and driving. Again...long ago. But...fuck your book.
Nice car btw.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:11:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By onibaba:
If said felon is only needing or using his shotgun to defend him and his family, not committing any crimes, then by all means follow Texas law "in my book".

However, acquiring a brand new shotgun from an FFL wouldn't be prudent, "in my book".

Shouldn't need to worry about any of that, if you're dad is not out and about with the shotgun.

If the day comes that he needs to use it for self defense, then regardless of what the Fed law says, it will be a happy day he's not dead!
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Yes...its only him, not to take out. Just to defend himself if someone breaks into his home.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 1:16:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

<----FFL
As mentioned above, under federal law your father cannot legally possess a firearm. If he goes to a licensed gun dealer, fills out the Form 4473 he'll have to answer truthfully that he's a felon, in which case the dealer will deny the sale. The dealer won't even bother with the FBI NICS background check. If your father were to lie on the 4473, the dealer runs the NICS check, he will be denied. Being that he lied on the 4473 he commits another felony.

If your father asks you to get a gun for him, YOU commit a federal crime by providing a firearm to a person you know to be prohibited. While its legal to gift a gun to someone....they can't be otherwise prohibited. If caught, you'll never own a gun again.



Forget Texas law, Federal law still applies.


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He aint gonna lie...Im asking for him to do this all legal! He wouldn’t ask me to do get him one, and I wouldn't give him either one of my 590a1's.
Im not risking and of my shit.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 6:07:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 6:15:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tooly:
My pops is a felon. Hasnt gotten into trouble in a long time. He's like 72 and wants a shotgun. Does texas have a time period if he hasn't gotten into trouble,  he could own one again after 5 / 10 years?
And help would be appreciated.
View Quote


I do not suppose his "trouble" involved "antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices"?
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 6:50:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bcw107:


Weird. I missed that part in the 2nd Amendment.  


OP. Courts are expunging criminal convictions like crazy right now. Call an attorney.
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This is my thinking, it might be a 60’s/70’s marijuana conviction, at one time a felony now a misdemeanor or even infraction in some states.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 7:00:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
The Texas law may be from before the GCA of 1968. That was where the Fed was the law banning felons from owning firearms.
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Texas Statutes were re-written in 1973. So they would have known about GCA. With that said, the adjacent state gun buying exception (from GCA 68) was only removed a few years ago, it was obsoleted in 1986...


And there are several Texas statutes that have been voided by SCOTUS but still not removed.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 8:17:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bcw107:


Weird. I missed that part in the 2nd Amendment.  


OP. Courts are expunging criminal convictions like crazy right now. Call an attorney.
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Weird, but TEXASGUNNER308 didn't mention anything about the Second Amendment.
How you or I interpret the Second Amendment is irrelevant, the Constitution gives that duty to the federal courts.
And so far the federal courts haven't upheld a felons Second Amendment rights unless he's convicted of certain nonviolent crimes (as mentioned by RenegadeX) or has had his record expunged.

But I agree, OP's dad should consult an attorney regarding an expungement.
Link Posted: 6/13/2021 10:58:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


I do not suppose his "trouble" involved "antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices"?
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No.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 9:08:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2021 9:35:16 AM EDT by TXGUNNER308]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcw107:


Weird. I missed that part in the 2nd Amendment.  


OP. Courts are expunging criminal convictions like crazy right now. Call an attorney.
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Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Not sugar coating this...your father is a FELON.  He should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime.  A FELON having access to a firearm is a NO GO in my book.


Weird. I missed that part in the 2nd Amendment.  


OP. Courts are expunging criminal convictions like crazy right now. Call an attorney.


He's a convicted felon and the law states that felons cannot posses firearms.  Has nothing to do with 2A and I made no mention of 2A rights.  Contact your congressman or run for office if you want to change it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 9:18:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By bcw107:


Weird. I missed that part in the 2nd Amendment.  


OP. Courts are expunging criminal convictions like crazy right now. Call an attorney.
View Quote

Who told you that? The Code of Criminal Procedure is specific about expunctuons. Convictions cannot be expunged just because they are old.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 9:53:08 AM EDT
No convictions for 5 yrs after final conviction. He can possess one in his home. If you know an attorney, you might confirm this with him or her.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 10:26:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2021 10:44:39 AM EDT by TXGUNNER308]
Convicted Felons and Unlawful Possession of a Gun or Firearm under Federal Law

Federal law is stricter than Texas State law when it comes to possessing a firearm after being convicted of either a felony or misdemeanor involving family violence.

Federal law (18 U.S.C Sec. 922 (g)(1-9) prohibits the following from possessing, shipping/transporting, or receiving any firearm or ammunition:

   a person convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year; (which includes all felonies in Texas – even if a person pled guilty and received deferred adjudication due to the federal definition of “conviction”)
   a person who is a fugitive from justice;
   a person who is an unlawful user of or who is addicted to a controlled substance;
   a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been admitted to a mental institution;
   an alien who is unlawfully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
   a person who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
   a person who, having been a citizen of the United States, renounces his citizenship;
   a person subject to a court order that was issued after a hearing in which the person participated, which order restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or partner’s child, and which order includes a finding that the person is a credible threat to such partner or partner’s child, or by its terms prohibits the use, attempted use or threatened use of such force against such partner or partner’s child;
   a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (This includes deferred adjudication under the federal definition of “conviction”)

As it relates to the Texas law, Federal law prohibits a person from possessing a firearm even if allowed to under the “5 year” provisions of Texas law.

A person convicted of unlawfully possessing a firearm under federal law faces ten years imprisonment and/or a $250,000 fine.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 10:36:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2021 11:46:23 AM EDT by Bigger_Hammer]
FEDERAL Law trumps State Law (or City Law) every single time* (Absent a SCOTUS Overrule).

* If the FEDS choose to enforce it that is ...

FEDS say "Felons CAN NOT HAVE FIREARMS".   End of Story - No Magic Loophole.

States have decriminalized Pot, but Federal Law (as far as I know) still says "Devil Weed" is a "No Go" legally...

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 12:58:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Reddtv:
No convictions for 5 yrs after final conviction. He can possess one in his home. If you know an attorney, you might confirm this with him or her.
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Stop it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2021 9:23:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Not sugar coating this...your father is a FELON.  He should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime.  A FELON having access to a firearm is a NO GO in my book.
View Quote



These days I probably commit at least 2 felonies a day while napping in my work truck being driven to a work site.  Not sure how/where/why but its possible.  I would agree with you depending on the felony at hand but anymore I think too much shit is considered felonious conduct.  

Link Posted: 6/15/2021 12:11:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tooly:
My pops is a felon. Hasnt gotten into trouble in a long time. He's like 72 and wants a shotgun. Does texas have a time period if he hasn't gotten into trouble,  he could own one again after 5 / 10 years?

And help would be appreciated.
View Quote


He could've gotten this taken care of a long time ago.  ATF used to have a gun-for-felons program where they accepted applications and granted relief to certain felons.  Program has been defunded since the '90s though.  You can read about it here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/there-way-prohibited-person-restore-their-right-receive-or-possess-firearms-and and here: https://vpc.org/publications/guns-for-felons/ (warning: plenty of bullshit propaganda at the bottom of the second link, but the historical information at the top should be edifying).

You could start thinking about antique weapons.  Would be pretty cool to have pops defend the old homestead with a muzzle loaded shotgun and a blunderbuss.  https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download

You could also just Google this.  That's literally what I did.  The above represents 7 minutes of effort.
Link Posted: 6/15/2021 2:39:58 AM EDT
Pretty sure black powder/curio & relic are exempted. Someone more informed will hopefully confirm
Link Posted: 6/15/2021 3:56:28 PM EDT
The right to life (or stay alive) is a fundamental tenet of freedom and while the right to life isn't codified, sometimes the only way to preserve life is with the use of a firearm. Definitely consider the warnings in the previous replies in determining your course of action. Free men don't ask, but freedom has consequences. The feds can and will fuck your pops, but they may never know. While the courts have ruled that the feds can 'legally' bar felons from owning guns the 2nd doesn't mention felons.

I would never do anything illegal or suggest that you or your pops do anything illegal like travel faster than the speed limit, litter, or pump your own gas in Oregon. Follow all laws
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 10:55:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:


Stop it.
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By Reddtv:
No convictions for 5 yrs after final conviction. He can possess one in his home. If you know an attorney, you might confirm this with him or her.


Stop it.


maybe he got his info from Len Baxley
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 1:52:50 PM EDT
At 72, do what you need to do.
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 8:38:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By oulufinn:
At 72, do what you need to do.
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Yup. Easy. Go on TexasGunTrader. Find shotgun for sale. Contact seller. Meet seller. Exchange money for shotgun. Done.
Link Posted: 6/16/2021 8:39:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FP2000H:


Yup. Easy. Go on TexasGunTrader. Find shotgun for sale. Contact seller. Meet seller. Exchange money for shotgun. Done.
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Yep.
Link Posted: 6/17/2021 5:12:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tone_suk1:
The right to life (or stay alive) is a fundamental tenet of freedom and while the right to life isn't codified, sometimes the only way to preserve life is with the use of a firearm. Definitely consider the warnings in the previous replies in determining your course of action. Free men don't ask, but freedom has consequences. The feds can and will fuck your pops, but they may never know. While the courts have ruled that the feds can 'legally' bar felons from owning guns the 2nd doesn't mention felons.

I would never do anything illegal or suggest that you or your pops do anything illegal like travel faster than the speed limit, litter, or pump your own gas in Oregon. Follow all laws
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Amen.

The second amendment is for everyone! Just as the rest of them are...

Link Posted: 6/17/2021 7:36:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
FEDERAL Law trumps State Law (or City Law) every single time* (Absent a SCOTUS Overrule).

* If the FEDS choose to enforce it that is ...

FEDS say "Felons CAN NOT HAVE FIREARMS".   End of Story - No Magic Loophole.

States have decriminalized Pot, but Federal Law (as far as I know) still says "Devil Weed" is a "No Go" legally...

BIGGER_HAMMER
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This is true if we ignore the constitution. Specifically, the tenth amendment.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 10:44:53 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By onibaba:


Amen.

The second amendment is for everyone! Just as the rest of them are...

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Inmates?
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 12:20:55 PM EDT
So what do we support?  Make up my mind for me...

It's NOT OK for a gang-banger or hood rat felon to buy a gun for protection.

It is OK for "Pops" felon to buy a gun for protection?

"Can't have your cake and eat it too"!
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 1:52:34 PM EDT
ALL rights should automatically be restored upon full completion of a sentence. That being said Texas allows former felons to have a gun at home after 5 years. He won't be able to buy from an FFL so he will have to buy private party. Don't share details with the seller as knowingly selling to a felon is a crime. Fuck the feds and the ATF.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 2:23:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2021 2:38:59 PM EDT by DogtownTom]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:
ALL rights should automatically be restored upon full completion of a sentence. That being said Texas allows former felons to have a gun at home after 5 years. He won't be able to buy from an FFL so he will have to buy private party. Don't share details with the seller as knowingly selling to a felon is a crime. Fuck the feds and the ATF.
View Quote

Violent criminals, as in rapists, robbers, child molesters as well? Fuck them and their rights.

Don't give me the "well they finished their sentence" bullshit. We damn well know that some people should never be free to terrorize their fellow man, but prison overcrowding lets them out.

People don't think recidivism be like it is, but it do.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 4:19:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Violent criminals, as in rapists, robbers, child molesters as well? Fuck them and their rights.

Don't give me the "well they finished their sentence" bullshit. We damn well know that some people should never be free to terrorize their fellow man, but prison overcrowding lets them out.

People don't think recidivism be like it is, but it do.
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Your issue should that those people should be given an appropriate length sentence. We shouldn't have two classes of people roaming about freely, those with all rights and those with some rights. As a consequence of that we are presumed to be the latter until we prove ourselves the former. This is why we deal with background checks and other similar BS.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 4:27:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Violent criminals, as in rapists, robbers, child molesters as well? Fuck them and their rights.

Don't give me the "well they finished their sentence" bullshit. We damn well know that some people should never be free to terrorize their fellow man, but prison overcrowding lets them out.

People don't think recidivism be like it is, but it do.
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:
ALL rights should automatically be restored upon full completion of a sentence. That being said Texas allows former felons to have a gun at home after 5 years. He won't be able to buy from an FFL so he will have to buy private party. Don't share details with the seller as knowingly selling to a felon is a crime. Fuck the feds and the ATF.

Violent criminals, as in rapists, robbers, child molesters as well? Fuck them and their rights.

Don't give me the "well they finished their sentence" bullshit. We damn well know that some people should never be free to terrorize their fellow man, but prison overcrowding lets them out.

People don't think recidivism be like it is, but it do.


BOOM...I agree 150%.  They made poor decisions, they can fester in their own shit!
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 5:12:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Your issue should that those people should be given an appropriate length sentence. We shouldn't have two classes of people roaming about freely, those with all rights and those with some rights. As a consequence of that we are presumed to be the latter until we prove ourselves the former.
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Your issue should that those people should be given an appropriate length sentence. We shouldn't have two classes of people roaming about freely, those with all rights and those with some rights. As a consequence of that we are presumed to be the latter until we prove ourselves the former.

You willing to pay higher taxes to build more prisons? Hire more guards? Didn't think so.
Sentencing guidelines and the parole system are highly dependent on how many beds available in TDCJ.

This is why we deal with background checks and other similar BS.

Wrong.
Background checks aren't just to weed out felons. There are other categories of prohibited persons, some of whom are not criminals.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 9:15:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Your issue should that those people should be given an appropriate length sentence. We shouldn't have two classes of people roaming about freely, those with all rights and those with some rights. As a consequence of that we are presumed to be the latter until we prove ourselves the former. This is why we deal with background checks and other similar BS.
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Exactly.  Look at all these pathetic Fudds pretending to be pro-2A
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 1:26:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2021 1:26:47 PM EDT by OCT_Jack]
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

You willing to pay higher taxes to build more prisons? Hire more guards? Didn't think so.
Sentencing guidelines and the parole system are highly dependent on how many beds available in TDCJ.


Wrong.
Background checks aren't just to weed out felons. There are other categories of prohibited persons, some of whom are not criminals.
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Your issue should that those people should be given an appropriate length sentence. We shouldn't have two classes of people roaming about freely, those with all rights and those with some rights. As a consequence of that we are presumed to be the latter until we prove ourselves the former.

You willing to pay higher taxes to build more prisons? Hire more guards? Didn't think so.
Sentencing guidelines and the parole system are highly dependent on how many beds available in TDCJ.

This is why we deal with background checks and other similar BS.

Wrong.
Background checks aren't just to weed out felons. There are other categories of prohibited persons, some of whom are not criminals.


Are you a Christian? We can do better than our prison system.

Here is a good video by Pastor Anderson explaining it. I think we will still need some prisons but we shouldn't have nearly as many as we do now. According to the Bible some appropriate punishments should be death, a beating, or restitution. IIRC if a person is not able to pay back the restitution they can essentially be enslaved to work off the debt but no more than 7 years. The 13th amendment allows enslavement as punishment for criminal convictions, we should make use of that. No more prisons.



I don't agree with background checks. If someone is truly such a danger they cannot be trusted with a gun, then they are a danger that cannot be trusted with anything, they should not be walking around freely.


Link Posted: 6/19/2021 2:23:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2021 2:26:44 PM EDT by DogtownTom]
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Are you a Christian?
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


Are you a Christian?

Yes.

We can do better than our prison system.

Then do it. Until then, prison remains the place where we send shitbags.


Here is a good video by Pastor Anderson explaining it.

Steven Anderson? Oh good grief.



I think we will still need some prisons but we shouldn't have nearly as many as we do now. According to the Bible some appropriate punishments should be death, a beating, or restitution.

The Bible also says thou shalt not kill and to love thy neighbor as thyself.



IIRC if a person is not able to pay back the restitution they can essentially be enslaved to work off the debt but no more than 7 years. The 13th amendment allows enslavement as punishment for criminal convictions, we should make use of that. No more prisons.

What it means is inmates may be required to work while incarcerated. I'm pretty sure every state penal system has been doing exactly that. The 13th doesn't allow you to enslave Jimmy Joe because he stole your hubcaps. It means the state may require him to pay you back or face jail time. While in jail/prison Jimmy Joe may be required to work.

I don't agree with background checks. If someone is truly such a danger they cannot be trusted with a gun, then they are a danger that cannot be trusted with anything, they should not be walking around freely.

Yet they ARE walking around. And you want them to retain their gun rights.
I don't. It's called consequences. It ain't exactly a secret that crimes have punishment and if convicted you face the consequences. Loss of ones right to vote, hold public office and possess firearms are consequences.

Link Posted: 6/19/2021 2:37:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2021 2:37:42 PM EDT by OCT_Jack]
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Yes.
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I'll take your word for it.

That being said as you admitted you were an FFL, you benefit from the government and the laws it puts in place, restrictions on certain transactions. I think that may bias you.

I worship the Lord, not man or his laws. When they are just and fair I do however follow them.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 3:09:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


I'll take your word for it.

That being said as you admitted you were an FFL, you benefit from the government and the laws it puts in place, restrictions on certain transactions. I think that may bias you.
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Originally Posted By OCT_Jack:


I'll take your word for it.

That being said as you admitted you were an FFL, you benefit from the government and the laws it puts in place, restrictions on certain transactions. I think that may bias you.

I'm 64, I've only been an FFL since 2008. Not one day in my life have I believed the world would be a better place if convicted felons were legally able to possess firearms.

I worship the Lord, not man or his laws. When they are just and fair I do however follow them.

I hope you aren't suggesting I worship "man or his laws".....because I don't.
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's".

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