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Posted: 3/18/2021 10:25:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amendments; Most of them are not good. -business may post signs restricting open or concealed carry. - specific training added to the CWP course for open carry. ???(v)?properly securing a firearm in a holster; ???(vi)?‘cocked and locked’ carrying of a firearm; ???(vii)?how to respond to a person who attempts to take your firearm from your holster; and ???(viii)?deescalation techniques and strategies. - churches using schools as places of worship may allow CWP holders to carry in school during services (makes the school not a school during the surface). The church must notify the school district. -local governments giving permits for rallies, parades, fairs, festivals, etc, may restrict open carry during the event. Signs must be posted at the entrance to the even notifying attendees. Additional prohibition signage for open and concealed carry, where none before existed, IMHO, is a given. This is the law of unintended consequences! |
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Posted: 3/18/2021 11:01:58 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amendments; Most of them are not good. -business may post signs restricting open or concealed carry. - specific training added to the CWP course for open carry. ???(v)?properly securing a firearm in a holster; ???(vi)?‘cocked and locked’ carrying of a firearm; ???(vii)?how to respond to a person who attempts to take your firearm from your holster; and ???(viii)?deescalation techniques and strategies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Amendments; Most of them are not good. -business may post signs restricting open or concealed carry. - specific training added to the CWP course for open carry. ???(v)?properly securing a firearm in a holster; ???(vi)?‘cocked and locked’ carrying of a firearm; ???(vii)?how to respond to a person who attempts to take your firearm from your holster; and ???(viii)?deescalation techniques and strategies. Quoted: -local governments giving permits for rallies, parades, fairs, festivals, etc, may restrict open carry during the event. Signs must be posted at the entrance to the even notifying attendees. |
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Posted: 3/18/2021 12:30:20 PM EDT
[#3]
3rd reading occurred this morning and passed. It’s officially moved to the senate.
Passed 73-26 |
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Posted: 3/18/2021 12:36:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So did they address the elephant in the room? Are they going to make several hundred thousand of us take the class again since we didn't get what they apparently consider necessary training when we took the class? This is bad. I expect places like Columbia will just go ahead and print a ban on the application to save time. In fact, it looks like we have a Columbia representative to thank for proposing this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Amendments; Most of them are not good. -business may post signs restricting open or concealed carry. - specific training added to the CWP course for open carry. ???(v)?properly securing a firearm in a holster; ???(vi)?‘cocked and locked’ carrying of a firearm; ???(vii)?how to respond to a person who attempts to take your firearm from your holster; and ???(viii)?deescalation techniques and strategies. Quoted: -local governments giving permits for rallies, parades, fairs, festivals, etc, may restrict open carry during the event. Signs must be posted at the entrance to the even notifying attendees. They didn’t address requiring people to retrain. My untrained and uneducated guess is that since it doesn’t say so if you have a CWP you can open carry without the additional training. But who knows. I do expect Columbia and other big cities to abuse the open carry ban, but the only plus side is it is only in effect for the duration of the event. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still BS, but at least not fully limited like they do in NC. The original amendment did not force the event to post signs, so you could of walked into it open carrying, not knowing it was prohibited and gotten arrested for breaking a BS ban you didn’t know existed. They changed it to require the event to post of open carry is banned. |
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Posted: 3/18/2021 11:35:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Is there a way to fight to lower the age to 18 or no chance?
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Posted: 3/19/2021 9:21:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a way to fight to lower the age to 18 or no chance? Seriously doubt it at this time. CWP minimum age has always been 21. Probably want to see the how Open Carry works out first. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 10:24:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Any insight as to why these bills are getting traction after years and years of dying on the subcommittee vine if not the house floor? Not complaining but I don't remember any big changes in our political landscape making the path easier.
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Posted: 3/19/2021 11:28:38 AM EDT
[#8]
With HB 3094 and HB3096 running concurrently. It gets very confusing with both bills amending same sections. Does 3096 pretty much cancel 3094 by allowing constitutional carry.
Also noticed the local Wally World posted signs asking not to openly carry inside the store. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 12:08:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any insight as to why these bills are getting traction after years and years of dying on the subcommittee vine if not the house floor? Not complaining but I don't remember any big changes in our political landscape making the path easier. I haven’t been here long enough to know all the history, but I think there was a “republican” on the judiciary committee that killed them in the past that is no longer in office. Someone please correct me though. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 12:14:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With HB 3094 and HB3096 running concurrently. It gets very confusing with both bills amending same sections. Does 3096 pretty much cancel 3094 by allowing constitutional carry. Also noticed the local Wally World posted signs asking not to openly carry inside the store. I’d have to read them side by side again, but i believe generally speaking you’re correct. 3094 is approved in the house already and 3096 is just going for it’s second read. I think they put 3094 out front to feel it out and it went well so they’re pushing 3096 as well. Representative Hill tried to add constitutional carry as an amendment to 3094 but the amendment was tabled. I think they’re trying to get something (anything?) passed to improved our rights. If they can do step one with open carry and follow up with constitutional carry great. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 12:43:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven’t been here long enough to know all the history, but I think there was a “republican” on the judiciary committee that killed them in the past that is no longer in office. Someone please correct me though. Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven’t been here long enough to know all the history, but I think there was a “republican” on the judiciary committee that killed them in the past that is no longer in office. Someone please correct me though. Larry Martin from Pickens was the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee until 2017. He routinely shot stuff down. https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/senator-larry-martin-south-carolina-permitless-carry/ I’m not one of those types who believe that any common sense approach to solving a problem is always trumped by the Second Amendment. He now says he will also work to defeat a bill, approved by an overwhelming majority by the state House of Representatives on Monday, that would allow state residents to carry concealed weapons in public without a license. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 1:15:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Larry Martin from Pickens was the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee until 2017. He routinely shot stuff down. https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/senator-larry-martin-south-carolina-permitless-carry/ Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 2:48:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any insight as to why these bills are getting traction after years and years of dying on the subcommittee vine if not the house floor? Not complaining but I don't remember any big changes in our political landscape making the path easier. My cynical theory is that it is simply because open carry is now allowed in a majority of other states. In my admittedly limited amount of research into SC gun politics, our legislature follows the ebb and flow of the rest of the country. Once over half of the US goes in a particular direction, so we go. It is just a political move to not be first and not be last, that’s all. Look at how this was shot down just last year; its stated above that the holdout guy was replaced back in 2017 it seems; so it wasn’t him holding it up in 2020. But I’m fairly jaded with the whole political landscape, so take my opinion with a grain of salt around the rim of a strong margarita. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 4:54:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm all for Open Carry with CWP. Constitutional carry is scary. I've seen too many folks come to the range and not know the first thing about using there firearm nor how to handle it in a safe manner. Consequently a lot of shots at seven yards fail to hit the target - some into the ground, some into the overhead barricades. I see a lot of limp wristing, breaking the 180, etc. Just so many things going wrong!
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Posted: 3/19/2021 5:16:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm all for Open Carry with CWP. Constitutional carry is scary. I've seen too many folks come to the range and not know the first thing about using there firearm nor how to handle it in a safe manner. Consequently a lot of shots at seven yards fail to hit the target - some into the ground, some into the overhead barricades. I see a lot of limp wristing, breaking the 180, etc. Just so many things going wrong! Freedom is scary.  The constitutional carry bill is schedule to have its second reading and debate on Monday. Link |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 5:51:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Freedom is scary. The constitutional carry bill is schedule to have its second reading and debate on Monday. Link With only 18 other states having legalized constitutional, i’d wager it won’t move past this second debate. I’ll cross my fingers, but I expect that watching this bill will likely strengthen my confirmation bias. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 6:40:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With only 18 other states having legalized constitutional, i’d wager it won’t move past this second debate. I’ll cross my fingers, but I expect that watching this bill will likely strengthen my confirmation bias. We will see. I moved to SC from a KY so open carry and eventually constitutional carry were no big deal, but then again I’m not a LEO and don’t deal with sketchy people all day. Just looking at bill sponsors open carry had roughy 70 in the house, constitutional carry has roughly 38. Now is the time to contact your representatives and tell them to pass the bill. Find your Representative |
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Posted: 3/21/2021 7:48:09 AM EDT
[#18]
As far as LEOs go.
EVERY interaction they have, they consider everyone armed until proven otherwise. Constitutional carry will not change that landscape at all. What I can see changing is there will be a requirement to declare in all interactions with LEOs if we make it to permit less carry. Right now CWP is a revenue stream so they won't stop it. I bet there are 5 people being paid pennies to stamp approved and print permits all day and it costs the state $10 to make the permits including their paychecks. How much did we pay for the permit? Permits are a tax, they just don't call it that. |
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Posted: 3/21/2021 3:51:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as LEOs go. EVERY interaction they have, they consider everyone armed until proven otherwise. Constitutional carry will not change that landscape at all. What I can see changing is there will be a requirement to declare in all interactions with LEOs if we make it to permit less carry. Right now CWP is a revenue stream so they won't stop it. I bet their a 5 people being paid pennies to stamp approved and print permits all day and it costs the state $10 to make the permits including their paychecks. How much did we pay for the permit? Permits are a tax, they just don't call it that. Agree it’s a tax. I’ve read in states with constitutional carry it increases the number of CWPs issued due to reciprocity |
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Posted: 3/21/2021 4:06:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Given that violent criminals are almost always armed, and usually armed with a firearm, there is zero excuse to require any kind of permission for normal humans to be armed.
Given that, in 15 years of law enforcement, I have NEVER once seen any violent criminal face punishment for illegally carrying/ posessing a weapon, there is no reason for a violent criminal to NOT have a gun on them at all times, since they won't get in trouble for it. For those that don't know, criminals typically have multiple charges and their sentences almost always run "Concurrent," so that if they get 20 years for Armed Robbery, 5 years for using a gun, 10 years for pointing the gun or unlawful carry, they only do the largest sentence of 20 years, so them having a gun is practically irrelevant, and only means something on paper. Bad guys already carry and face no penalty. Why not even the playing field? That's not even addressing the fact that if someone can't be trusted to carry a gun then why are they trusted to rent a UHaul and trusted to not drive it into a crowded city sidewalk on a Friday night? There are no logical excuses for requiring permits or having restrictions or prohibitions on carrying any weapon. Emotions are absurd. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 8:52:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given that violent criminals are almost always armed, and usually armed with a firearm, there is zero excuse to require any kind of permission for normal humans to be armed. Given that, in 15 years of law enforcement, I have NEVER once seen any violent criminal face punishment for illegally carrying/ posessing a weapon, there is no reason for a violent criminal to NOT have a gun on them at all times, since they won't get in trouble for it. For those that don't know, criminals typically have multiple charges and their sentences almost always run "Concurrent," so that if they get 20 years for Armed Robbery, 5 years for using a gun, 10 years for pointing the gun or unlawful carry, they only do the largest sentence of 20 years, so them having a gun is practically irrelevant, and only means something on paper. Bad guys already carry and face no penalty. Why not even the playing field? That's not even addressing the fact that if someone can't be trusted to carry a gun then why are they trusted to rent a UHaul and trusted to not drive it into a crowded city sidewalk on a Friday night? There are no logical excuses for requiring permits or having restrictions or prohibitions on carrying any weapon. Emotions are absurd. The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 8:55:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! Yet. It's been proposed in some places even though it's essentially a poll tax. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 8:55:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! Driving is a privilege. 2A is a right. That is a HUGE point. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 10:03:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Driving is a privilege. 2A is a right. That is a HUGE point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! Driving is a privilege. 2A is a right. That is a HUGE point. Tyrants and slaves don't give a shit about Civil Rights. That's why they always try a false equivalency with such an idiotic comparison like you just saw. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 12:41:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! Supposed to lol I’ve known more people who drive with no/suspended/revoked license and no insurance in my life than i’ve known who do it right. Having a law/rules doesn’t affect anyone who completely disregards them without fear of criminal or civil punishment. The difference between them and us is that they live more freely because they already have nothing to lose from getting caught by the man while doing what they want. Just like criminals who wantonly exercise their rights and carry “unlawfully” in comparison to us, who go through the process of getting our permits to exercise the same right. Decriminalizing open/ constitutional carry is ultimately more of an asset for us law-abiding than it is a liability. I understand your point; but I respectfully disagree. Carrying a gun shouldn’t be a crime regardless of ability or proficiency. Nana shouldnt have to choose between paying for her prescriptions or taking a CWP class just to protect herself from some punks with long-departed pop-pop’s revolver when walking to the corner store. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 1:55:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Driving is a privilege. 2A is a right. That is a HUGE point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The person driving the auto has a license: he had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of the state laws AND he has to have Liability insurance. At least a CWP doesn't require liability insurance! Driving is a privilege. 2A is a right. That is a HUGE point. Quoted for truth. The “drivers license” argument is total BS. Constitutional Carry may scare you, but as I previously posted, freedom is scary. We’re not the first state to implement it and I don’t think we will be the last. Relax. As shown by the other states, it scares people but it’s a nothing burger. As a previous poster said, law enforcement assumes everyone is armed, and if a criminal wanted to carry a gun, not having the permission slip from Caesar will not stop them. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 4:53:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Constitutional Carry (HB3096) passed its second reading today with a vote of 69-47.
One more reading / vote then it heads to the senate if it passes. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 4:59:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Constitutional Carry (HB3096) passed its second reading today with a vote of 69-47. One more reading / vote then it heads to the senate if it passes. Summarizing, the Senate has 2 bills to 'choose from', open carry with a CWP, and open carry regardless. Correct? Yeah, for the pearl clutchers somewhere between 'many' and 'most' states already have open carry, no permit required. There are literally a handful of states (CA/IL/NY/SC) and a couple of others that have no open carry. Not a group to be associated with. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 6:44:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Summarizing, the Senate has 2 bills to 'choose from', open carry with a CWP, and open carry regardless. Correct? Yeah, for the pearl clutchers somewhere between 'many' and 'most' states already have open carry, no permit required. There are literally a handful of states (CA/IL/NY/SC) and a couple of others that have no open carry. Not a group to be associated with. Two bills; HB 3094 (open carry with a CWP) passed the house and is in the judiciary committee in the senate. HB 3096 (constitutional carry) is open or concealed carry if you’re legally able to own a firearm. No permit required. CWP program remains in place to allow reciprocity if a SC resident travels. Not just open carry. This bill has had two of the three required readings in the house. If it passes the next vote, the senate will have both bills. IF the senate approved then, it goes to the governor. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 11:02:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Constitutional Carry (HB3096) passed its second reading today with a vote of 69-47. One more reading / vote then it heads to the senate if it passes. The house rules prevent amendment unless by unanimous consent, and severely curtail motions during the third reading. Basically debate is over and parliamentary maneuvers to slow it are neutered at this point. They can still request a roll call, but who is going to vote against the same bill they voted for a day or two ago? |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 11:15:21 PM EDT
[#31]
The Senate is the real battle. Senate subcommittees, usually judiciary, are where these bills go to die. Sometimes they will make it to the full judiciary and die there. The House has transmitted several of these bills to the Senate in years prior, and the Senate will usually have their own version too. Many times it isn't even that they vote it unfavorable, but that they sit on it until the session is over.
When they do take up a gun bill it's usually placed on the second reading contested calendar and not taken up until 2 days left in the session where democrats sack the bill with 87 amendments before republicans vote to end debate. There isn't time to debate each amendment before the end of session, so dead bill again. I hope they can get it together this year. I haven't been following this at all, but I'll try and catch up on it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2021 5:53:40 PM EDT
[#32]
3096 was read a third time and sent to the Senate today.
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Posted: 4/9/2021 3:31:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3096 was read a third time and sent to the Senate today. Great. Thanks for the update. Now we get to see if the bills will die in the Senate |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 4:55:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Maybe time to get in on the ground floor selling "No Open Carry" signs?????
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Posted: 4/21/2021 3:46:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Minor update.
Bill was sent to senate judiciary subcommittee on 4/20. 3 republicans and 2 democrats. “Referred to Subcommittee: Young (ch), Malloy, Massey, Kimpson, Garrett” |
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Posted: 4/21/2021 12:40:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Minor update. Bill was sent to senate judiciary subcommittee on 4/20. 3 republicans and 2 democrats. “Referred to Subcommittee: Young (ch), Malloy, Massey, Kimpson, Garrett” What is the bill #? 3096? I’d like to send them a comment |
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Posted: 4/21/2021 1:42:55 PM EDT
[#37]
3094 - open carry.
While you’re at it ask about 3096, constitutional carry. |
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Posted: 4/23/2021 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Subcommittee is scheduled to meet Tuesday 4/27 at 930 for the Open Carry bill.
https://www.scstatehouse.gov/agendas/124s11316.pdf |
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Posted: 4/23/2021 5:08:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Any chance we can make it legal to run over rioters?
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Posted: 4/27/2021 11:20:39 AM EDT
[#40]
I went to the hearing to testify. By the time I got to speak (6th or 7th), it was about a 50/50 split with the testimonials. I did what I could to negate the opposition’s talking points.
I couldn’t stay cause I have a job and FFL packages en route 
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Posted: 4/27/2021 11:38:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to the hearing to testify. By the time I got to speak (6th or 7th), it was about a 50/50 split with the testimonials. I did what I could to negate the opposition’s talking points. I couldn’t stay cause I have a job and FFL packages en route Thank you for going. I listened online. Meeting was ended and will be rescheduled to continue debate. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 4:00:16 PM EDT
[#42]
They are hosing us, again.
https://www.live5news.com/2021/04/27/sc-senate-stalls-bill-allowing-open-carry-guns/ |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:04:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are hosing us, again. https://www.live5news.com/2021/04/27/sc-senate-stalls-bill-allowing-open-carry-guns/ It took them about a month to schedule the sub committee meeting. I’m not holding my breath at this point. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:18:49 PM EDT
[#44]
They probably could have had the time to vote on it if they hadn’t let one of the bill’s opponents have over 30 minutes of time for speaking and Q&A, when it was made clear to the rest of us that we had 2-4 minutes.
I broke my personal oath to not get politically involved again, so if they fail to even vote on it, my confirmation bias will be bolstered and the wall of cynicism i’ve built keeping me out of the political theatre will grow 10ft higher. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:26:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It took them about a month to schedule the sub committee meeting. I’m not holding my breath at this point. I'd say almost zero chance at this point. With 8 days left in the session, by the time it got out committee I'd guess there are procedures any opposing senator could use prevent three readings and a vote. The senate always seems to be the choke point for these bills, even with a Republican supermajority. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:29:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They probably could have had the time to vote on it if they hadn’t let one of the bill’s opponents have over 30 minutes of time for speaking and Q&A, when it was made clear to the rest of us that we had 2-4 minutes. I broke my personal oath to not get politically involved again, so if they fail to even vote on it, my confirmation bias will be bolstered and the wall of cynicism i’ve built keeping me out of the political theatre will grow 10ft higher. As I said before, thank you for taking the time to go down and speak on it. We need people like you. It is ridiculous with such a majority we can’t get stuff done though..... |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:54:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is ridiculous with such a majority we can’t get stuff done though..... IKR! It’s like it’s by design or at least a concerted effort. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 6:30:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Can we get some names of Senators to hopefully remember next election?
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Posted: 4/27/2021 6:40:56 PM EDT
[#49]
I glanced at the news and saw that Charleston's police chief (I think it was, maybe the sheriff) spoke out against it as did the former head of SLED and some people who seemed positive it would get black folks shot and killed. It shouldn't but it still blows my mind how the majority of states have it and no issues and these fools are worried about high noon shootouts here.
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Posted: 4/27/2021 7:01:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we get some names of Senators to hopefully remember next election? Remember after the subcommittee this doesn't go to the floor, it goes to the full judiciary committee for a vote. Luke Rankin is the chairman of the Judiciary committee. If he wanted this stuff done, it would have been by now. Hugh Leatherman is chairman of the finance committee, and previous president pro tempore before the office was abolished. He doesn't have anything to do with this bill per se, but he wields a ton of power and has a big say in what moves, even without the pro tem office. Harvey Peeler is president of the senate and has absorbed the pro tem's powers. I don't know how much influence this has added to his seat, but I would say he has more than mcmaster had before him. Let us not forget that the senate can pull ANY of these gun bills out of committee for a vote on the senate floor with a simple majority vote, anytime 5 days after the referral to a committee. If they wanted it to pass they could bypass the committee time constraints easily. |
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