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Posted: 7/2/2022 6:53:30 PM EDT
Got pulled over this weekend for the first time in a long time. It was very courteous but he asked if I was carrying and what and then asked me to step out of the car so he could take it off of me while he ran my license. He brought it back unloaded with my license and insurance told me he wasn't issuing a ticket and to have a good day.
After the fact I figured that he ran the serial to see if it's stolen cause he didn't do it for safety reasons. He asked if I was going to work and I told him that I'd taken the day off and was going shooting. The car was literally full of firearms. Car isn't a shit box. Plates registered to me and the car, car registered to me, insurance listed to that car in my name and drivers license was current. The only thing on my record from the last 15years is a speeding ticket from 5 years ago. During that stop I informed the officer I was carrying and he was like "we've got constitution carry, so it doesn't matter." Handed me my ticket and left. Anyway I was just wondering if anyone else has had this happen ,if it's legal, department policy or if you can deny them from taking it. Any MO lawyers around the HTF? |
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Posted: 7/2/2022 7:17:43 PM EDT
I've had it happen. It's a pain in the butt, but I don't think that it's illegal in any way.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2022 7:43:20 PM EDT
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Posted: 7/2/2022 8:04:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 67Firebird]
From that link;
" (c) In the absence of any reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm shall be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest; and (d) Any person who violates this subdivision shall be subject to the penalty provided in section 571.121." Looks like it is illegal. Warrenton police may have broken the law with me, unless my friend breaking the speed limit counts as criminal activity. No, I'm not going to pursue it. 
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Posted: 7/3/2022 9:02:49 AM EDT
The few times that I have been stoped over the years, I haven't been disarmed by law enforcement a single time. And that was with the MoHP, county sheriff deputies and local city police. Which kind of surprises me since I have been a victim of identity theft by y own brother who uses my name as an alias. My brother's records always show when my name is ran through MULES. I did put a flag to make sure any officer makes a positive ID. I do keep and maintain my permit but can't say if that helps or not.
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Posted: 7/3/2022 11:25:46 AM EDT
He "asked you to let him disarm you", or "ordered you to let him disarm you"? Big difference.
There is no law that says an officer can't ask to disarm you, and some do ask. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 11:55:12 AM EDT
How fast were you going?
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Posted: 7/3/2022 12:32:06 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By boy-scout: He "asked you to let him disarm you", or "ordered you to let him disarm you"? Big difference. There is no law that says an officer can't ask to disarm you, and some do ask. I wasn't asked; he said that he's going to take my gun for his safety and mine, and I'll get it back when he's done. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 3:45:54 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By chumpmiester: The few times that I have been stoped over the years, I haven't been disarmed by law enforcement a single time. And that was with the MoHP, county sheriff deputies and local city police. The 2 times I was pulled over when I lived in JC, this is my experience as well. JC officer asked me if I was armed. I said yes. His reply was: Don't pull yours and I won't pull mine. My second pull over was by HP. No issues, no disarmament by either officer, but everyone is different. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 4:53:13 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By 67Firebird: I wasn't asked; he said that he's going to take my gun for his safety and mine, and I'll get it back when he's done. Yeah, It wasn't a question. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2022 11:41:04 PM EDT
I talked to one of my Highway patrol buddies tonight about this. He stated that he has argued that it's unconstitutional to do so, (he was also unaware of the statue) but that it is taught at the academy by "some woman from Kansas city" under officer safety.... We both agreed that it won't get stopped until it gets in the States back pocket.... they will turn a blind eye until they are sued....
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Posted: 7/4/2022 10:15:22 AM EDT
The couple of times I've been pulled over since CCW was legal, they've taken my pistol, unloaded it and put on the back of the vehicle while they were in their car. As soon as they run your plates, before they even approach the car, they know if you have a CCW so I'm sure why they asked me.
On a side note, I wasn't paying attention and let my CCW expire. Is it worth renewing? I'd probably have to take the class again. |
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Posted: 7/4/2022 11:00:22 AM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By 67Firebird: From that link; " (c) In the absence of any reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm shall be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest; and [snip]" Looks like it is illegal. Warrenton police may have broken the law with me, unless my friend breaking the speed limit counts as criminal activity. No, I'm not going to pursue it. Actually, (c)'s placement inside of subdivision (2) causes it to only apply in specific jurisdictions: those that ban open carry. If there is no ban, the restrictions on law enforcement don't apply. Perhaps the legislature wanted that to motivate jurisdictions to not write ordinances against OC, but I think it would be far better and less confusing if those LEO restrictions were simply applied everywhere. The legislature could move the language of (c) out of subdivision (2) and into its own subdivision to accomplish that. Here's the whole subdivision, for context... ------------- (2) In any jurisdiction in which the open carrying of firearms is prohibited by ordinance, the open carrying of firearms shall not be prohibited in accordance with the following: (a) Any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit who is open carrying a firearm shall be required to have a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit from this state, or a permit from another state that is recognized by this state, in his or her possession at all times; (b) Any person open carrying a firearm in such jurisdiction shall display his or her concealed carry endorsement or permit upon demand of a law enforcement officer; (c) In the absence of any reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm shall be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest; and (d) Any person who violates this subdivision shall be subject to the penalty provided in section 571.121. |
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Posted: 7/4/2022 11:10:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By defender: On a side note, I wasn't paying attention and let my CCW expire. Is it worth renewing? Originally Posted By mzM: Actually, (c)'s placement inside of subdivision (2) causes it to only apply in specific jurisdictions: Thanks for the clarification. You can see why I don't respond to these things too often.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2022 11:17:35 AM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By 67Firebird: Yes, because it gives you some protection in certain areas. Crime vs trespassed/asked to leave. And school zones! That's a federal thing, and the scary one. Also let's you carry in 30+ other states. |
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Posted: 7/4/2022 11:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mzM]
Originally Posted By 67Firebird: Thanks for the clarification. You can see why I don't respond to these things too often. Practically everyone is confused by it. Don't let that kinda stuff make ya shy now! 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2022 4:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nwalker77]
Only time I was disarmed was by a MOHP about 12 years ago. Guy made.me get out of my truck and put my hands on his hood so he could disarm me and pat me down. He found a spare magazine in my coat pocket and left it. He didn't check for an ankle holster. Then he made me sit in the passenger side of his car while he ran the serial. When he got the response that it wasn't stolen I asked if he was happy now and if all this was worth it. I told him BS like this is why people hate cops.
The guy was a POS and an idiot. You could tell he was a rookie. He kept second guessing himself. I should have filed a complaint. Not that it would have done any good. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 1:57:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: boy-scout]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By defender: The couple of times I've been pulled over since CCW was legal, they've taken my pistol, unloaded it and put on the back of the vehicle while they were in their car. As soon as they run your plates, before they even approach the car, they know if you have a CCW so I'm sure why they asked me. On a side note, I wasn't paying attention and let my CCW expire. Is it worth renewing? I'd probably have to take the class again.  Attached FileAlso. You do not have to retake your class, as there is no expiration on it. If you are more than 6 months expired, and you have your class certificate (or can obtain a copy from your instructor) you can re-apply just like you did the first time. Unfortunately, your old carry permit, and even the records of your permit that the sheriff has, does not have to be accepted as proof of taking a class. If you are less than 6 months expired, you can just renew with a penalty. Depending on the county you live in, they might just let you do a normal renewal even if you're more than 6 months expired. Also, since the permitting laws changed, and the sheriff issues your card, your permit is not entered into the MULES database, so an approaching officer will not know that you have a permit. When the DOR ccw list debacle happened, they changed it to where your permit is between you and your sheriff only. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 2:47:37 AM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By boy-scout: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/300252/FB_IMG_1609363748797_jpg-2442224.JPG Also. You do not have to retake your class, as there is no expiration on it. If you are more than 6 months expired, and you have your class certificate (or can obtain a copy from your instructor) you can re-apply just like you did the first time. Unfortunately, your old carry permit, and even the records of your permit that the sheriff has, does not have to be accepted as proof of taking a class. If you are less than 6 months expired, you can just renew with a penalty. Depending on the county you live in, they might just let you do a normal renewal even if you're more than 6 months expired. Also, since the permitting laws changed, and the sheriff issues your card, your permit is not entered into the MULES database, so an approaching officer will not know that you have a permit. When the DOR ccw list debacle happened, they changed it to where your permit is between you and your sheriff only. Thank you very much for that informative response! |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 8:12:50 AM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By defender: Thank you very much for that informative response! No doubt, that is one of the best breakdowns I've seen in a while. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:31:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: chumpmiester]
I am trying to find the exact state statute on penalties for carried in prohibited places. I know that part was changed when permit less carry was made legal. The part that changed was carrying on posted private property. If asked to leave and you refuse and law enforcement is called; with a permit - misdemeanor trespass, without a permit - felony trespass.
I had all of the statutes available in 2019 when I worked as a bouncer at a bar and that is what the statutes said at that time. The state could have changed the statutes since then. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2022 1:50:09 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By chumpmiester: I am trying to find the exact state statute on penalties for carried in prohibited places. I know that part was changed when permit less carry was made legal. The part that changed was carrying on posted private property. If asked to leave and you refuse and law enforcement is called; with a permit - misdemeanor trespass, without a permit - felony trespass. I had all of the statutes available in 2019 when I worked as a bouncer at a bar and that is what the statutes said at that time. The state could have changed the statutes since then. It's all in RSMO 571.030 and 571.107. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2022 3:31:12 PM EDT
Wasn't there something about the law being changed or it actually passed, if one had a permit that it was ok to carry on a bus. How is the bus line know if one has a concealed and whether you're legal or not, since Mo has permitless carry.
Also, wasn't there something that if one did have a permit and they asked ahead of time with the school's principal that if whether you could carry your concealed on campus and within the school? Schools now having trained teachers with guns, it would seem someone with experience around guns and legal to conceal would be a benefit, since they've already been checked out to be reliable and honest by the government and local. If cops can't have the courage to protect our children, who can trust them? |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 3:58:08 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By 67Firebird: Yes, because it gives you some protection in certain areas. Crime vs trespassed/asked to leave. Thanks for the clarification. You can see why I don't respond to these things too often. Also, I've lived in KCMO for three years, and I don't think I've ever actually seen a highway patrolman in this state. Every time I see someone pulled over, it is either city or county police. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2022 4:31:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thorshammerblow]
I got pulled over doing 11 over. I always tell the cop that I am carrying. He asked me to step out to the front of the truck. He then had me take gun out of holster and set it on hood of truck. He then unloaded it left the mag on the hood and asked me to step back to his car. He ran my name and came back clean-one ticket 18 years ago. Then he ran the serial on my gun to check if it was stolen. Came back clean. Then handed me empty gun and said just slow it down. This happened just north of Jeff City on 54.
Edit to add. I have been pulled over a few times with ccw, the only thing close to that was about 26 years ago when I was in Oklahoma with my CCW. Cop asked me to take it out of the holster and put it under the passenger seat. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 6:47:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: boy-scout]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Triumphman: Wasn't there something about the law being changed or it actually passed, if one had a permit that it was ok to carry on a bus. How is the bus line know if one has a concealed and whether you're legal or not, since Mo has permitless carry. Also, wasn't there something that if one did have a permit and they asked ahead of time with the school's principal that if whether you could carry your concealed on campus and within the school? Schools now having trained teachers with guns, it would seem someone with experience around guns and legal to conceal would be a benefit, since they've already been checked out to be reliable and honest by the government and local. If cops can't have the courage to protect our children, who can trust them? There was a bill to allow CCW on busses, but it failed. Carrying on a bus, train, or plane are felonies, permit or not. If you have a Mo. CCW permit, you can legally carry in Missouri schools. Only risking an infraction if caught, and failing to leave when asked. The school board sets the rules, and the school board is the entity that would grant permission for you to carry (unless they have given explicit permission for someone else to allow). Personally, I wouldn't ask, carrying in vulnerable places is worth the risk of a $100 infraction. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 6:54:37 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By Couch-Commando: Kind of a dumb question, does this apply to out of state permits? Because I have been lazy and simply renewed my Arizona permit for 10 years instead of getting a local one. Also, I've lived in KCMO for three years, and I don't think I've ever actually seen a highway patrolman in this state. Every time I see someone pulled over, it is either city or county police. Your Arizona permit is treated the a same as a Missouri permit in every way. But... due to the federal "gun free school zone" law, you are only exempt to carry in Arizona schools, NOT in Missouri schools. If you carry in a Missouri school, with only an Arizona permit, it is a felony. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2022 11:10:03 PM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By boy-scout: Your Arizona permit is treated the a same as a Missouri permit in every way. But... due to the federal "gun free school zone" law, you are only exempt to carry in Arizona schools, NOT in Missouri schools. If you carry in a Missouri school, with only an Arizona permit, it is a felony. Worse than that......it's any non-private property within 1000 ft of ANY school (public or private) unless the gun is unloaded and in a locked container. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 1:17:30 AM EDT
When I went to my grand kids schools, I put my gun in the safe before leaving the house. I still only have a Florida permit, so I don't even take my gun onto a school parking lot.
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Posted: 7/6/2022 10:14:42 AM EDT
Quote History Originally Posted By delorean: It's all in RSMO 571.030 and 571.107. And to everyone, that is why I still keep my permit. You do have more legal protection with a permit versus without one. Plus the fact that you can carry in other states that honor Mo. permits. |
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