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Posted: 10/31/2018 12:39:06 AM EDT
When I went into my local shop today 10/30/18, I was told that Minnesota was no longer with the exempt program of NICS. I still neaded to do the back ground check, Eventhough I had bought one gun a week there for the last 3 weeks with out the need to wait for a NICS check. ATF changed the exemption rule about 4 weeks ago and told no one. He had started hearing rumors and started checking on his own. Found out this morning that Minnesota lost the exemption because of sanctuary cities within the state. If anyone has more information about this, or pleople with information please share it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 9:13:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 1:37:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
When I went into my local shop today 10/30/18, I was told that Minnesota was no longer with the exempt program of NICS. I still neaded to do the back ground check, Eventhough I had bought one gun a week there for the last 3 weeks with out the need to wait for a NICS check. ATF changed the exemption rule about 4 weeks ago and told no one. He had started hearing rumors and started checking on his own. Found out this morning that Minnesota lost the exemption because of sanctuary cities within the state. If anyone has more information about this, or people with information please share it.
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https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart

It used to say: Minnesota - Handgun Carry Permits with expiration dates of Aug. 1, 2019 and later qualify.

Now it says: Minnesota - None

I just called the MN ATF field office and they said the BCA decided that the immigration questions on the PTC didn't meet the qualifications of the Brady waiver so requested that the ATF remove MN from the waiver allowed states. According to the agent I spoke to, this happened about 1.5-2 months ago and all of the information was taken down from the website and the brady chart updated but they aren't allowed to issue an advisory as there is a government wide moratorium on regulation guidance from all Federal Agencies so they are in process with a letter but it's on hold pending review with no ETA for release.  In the meantime, he said NICS checks are required of all purchasers in MN.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 2:25:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for checking into this and post the link.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 10:38:38 PM EDT
[#4]
So they are requiring checks now but have not bothered to inform the people who are supposed to be performing those checks?

Government at its finest.
Link Posted: 11/2/2018 9:48:37 PM EDT
[#5]
All this is because of illegal aliens?
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 11:47:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Am I missing something?  I’ve had my PTC since 2003 and had to have a NICS check done by a dozen different dealers across the state.  I’ve never not had a NICS check done because I had a PTC.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 10:21:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 3:57:27 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
For a brief time here recently (I don't think it was even a full year), the MN PTC qualified as an exemption for the NICS check.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Am I missing something?  I’ve had my PTC since 2003 and had to have a NICS check done by a dozen different dealers across the state.  I’ve never not had a NICS check done because I had a PTC.
For a brief time here recently (I don't think it was even a full year), the MN PTC qualified as an exemption for the NICS check.
And only if your permit was issued after a certain date.
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 12:32:10 PM EDT
[#9]
I literally just last night (11/06/18) picked up a Colt lower I had sent to my FFL/gun shop in Blaine and all I had to do was fill out the 4473 and show my PTC & Licence. No NICS phone call, just like the last half dozen lowers I've picked up this year.
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 12:43:57 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
I literally just last night (11/06/18) picked up a Colt lower I had sent to my FFL/gun shop in Blaine and all I had to do was fill out the 4473 and show my PTC & Licence. No NICS phone call, just like the last half dozen lowers I've picked up this year.
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The FFL is not current on the changes!  Hope he does not get a compliance visit!
Ignorance of the changes is no excuse!

Perhaps you should point him to the ATF Brady page linked above!
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 5:56:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 6:04:23 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
I literally just last night (11/06/18) picked up a Colt lower I had sent to my FFL/gun shop in Blaine and all I had to do was fill out the 4473 and show my PTC & Licence. No NICS phone call, just like the last half dozen lowers I've picked up this year.
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IIRC they can run a NICS on you from a webpage without doing the phone call now, are you sure they didnt go that route?
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 6:18:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 11/9/2018 6:53:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Word on the street that the sanctuary state excuse is just a lie and the real reason they pulled the exemption is that the state asked them too and the feds complied. I was talking with a guy that does most of my checks today about it. Also he was saying he was seeing lots incorrect denials recently.
Link Posted: 11/10/2018 12:54:52 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

Considering every FFL checks that page (which even states that it was recently updated) at least once a week, there's really no excuse.
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The FFL in question is Capra's in Blaine. I'll chat with them about it next time I stop in. I cant say I'm shocked they didnt know about this change.
Link Posted: 11/13/2018 12:01:52 PM EDT
[#16]
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The FFL in question is Capra's in Blaine. I'll chat with them about it next time I stop in. I cant say I'm shocked they didnt know about this change.
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Quoted:

Considering every FFL checks that page (which even states that it was recently updated) at least once a week, there's really no excuse.
The FFL in question is Capra's in Blaine. I'll chat with them about it next time I stop in. I cant say I'm shocked they didnt know about this change.
They probably ran it through the website, I think thats what they did the last time I was in there.
Link Posted: 11/15/2018 2:38:32 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

They probably ran it through the website, I think thats what they did the last time I was in there.
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They very well may have. I've transferred about eight lowers through them but all were after the new law originally became active. He walked into the back room by the gun counter for a minute but I think he was just making a photocopy of my ID and permit, didnt see anything with a computer. I have a LMT lower to pick up soon from them and I'll bring it up then.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 11:46:47 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

They very well may have. I've transferred about eight lowers through them but all were after the new law originally became active. He walked into the back room by the gun counter for a minute but I think he was just making a photocopy of my ID and permit, didnt see anything with a computer. I have a LMT lower to pick up soon from them and I'll bring it up then.
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well if they are doing something incorrectly hopefull they get it straightened out, I'd hate to see them get in trouble.
My office is right in the area so I run by Capra's pretty often.
Link Posted: 11/27/2018 3:10:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Kind of scary. Can you imagine the "State" using something like this to turn a whole bunch of gun owners into criminals and putting a whole bunch of gun stored out of business for noncompliance!!
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 4:53:30 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
Kind of scary. Can you imagine the "State" using something like this to turn a whole bunch of gun owners into criminals and putting a whole bunch of gun stored out of business for noncompliance!!
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Ignorance is no excuse so best pay attention.
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 5:50:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 11/30/2018 5:01:40 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:

Pay attention to a website that indicates it hasn't been changed since before this occurred, or to the non-existent notification from the regulatory agencies in question?

There's no excuse whatsoever for making a change to the procedure like this without proper notification.
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Pay attention to a website that indicates it hasn't been changed since before this occurred, or to the non-existent notification from the regulatory agencies in question?

There's no excuse whatsoever for making a change to the procedure like this without proper notification.
Letter released today by the ATF under the subject - Minnesota Permit to Carry no longer valid to bypass the NICS Check:

Minnesota Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs),

The NICS Section is trying to ensure as many FFLs as possible, in Minnesota, have received the information below.

The Brady law generally requires FFLs to initiate a NICS check before transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person.  Nonetheless, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3), the Brady law contains exceptions to the NICS check, including an exception for holders of certain State permits to possess, carry, or acquire firearms.  The law and implementing regulations provide that permits issued within the past 5 years may qualify as alternatives to the NICS check if certain other requirements are satisfied.  Most importantly, the authority issuing the permit must conduct a NICS background check, and if the applicant is a non-U.S. citizen, the check must also include an IAQ check, and must deny a permit to anyone prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal, State, or local law.  In order for the issuing authority to perform an IAQ check, each non-U.S. citizen applicant must provide the following information:  date of birth; country of birth; and alien number or alien admission number.  Otherwise, the required NICS check would be incomplete, and the state permit would not qualify as an alternative to a NICS check.

On April 28, 2017, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) published an Open Letter to all Minnesota FFLs stating that a valid Minnesota State Permit to Carry could be used as an alternative to initiating a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person.  This guidance was issued with the understanding that a complete NICS check was run on all permit applicants.  This guidance is no longer valid.  Minnesota’s State Permit to Carry application form does not currently require non-U.S. citizens to provide the information necessary to run an Immigration Alien Query (IAQ) check at the time the NICS check is performed.  Therefore, Minnesota’s Permit to Carry cannot be an exception to the background check requirement pursuant 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3), and this permit cannot be used by a purchaser nor accepted by an FFL as an alternative to a NICS background check.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension has posted the following the their website as well:

Note to Federal Firearms Licensees and Permit Holders: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) on October 19, 2018, issued a letter to the BCA stating, "All Minnesota Federal Firearms Licensees are required to conduct a NICS background check prior to the transfer of a firearm to a non-licensee even if that person presents a valid Permit to Carry." If you have any questions please call the ATF's Firearms Industry Programs Branch.
Link Posted: 11/30/2018 5:03:15 PM EDT
[#23]
This was just received from BATFE
"Minnesota Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs),

The NICS Section is trying to ensure as many FFLs as possible, in Minnesota, have received the information below.

The Brady law generally requires FFLs to initiate a NICS check before transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person.  Nonetheless, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3), the Brady law contains exceptions to the NICS check, including an exception for holders of certain State permits to possess, carry, or acquire firearms.  The law and implementing regulations provide that permits issued within the past 5 years may qualify as alternatives to the NICS check if certain other requirements are satisfied.  Most importantly, the authority issuing the permit must conduct a NICS background check, and if the applicant is a non-U.S. citizen, the check must also include an IAQ check, and must deny a permit to anyone prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal, State, or local law.  In order for the issuing authority to perform an IAQ check, each non-U.S. citizen applicant must provide the following information:  date of birth; country of birth; and alien number or alien admission number.  Otherwise, the required NICS check would be incomplete, and the state permit would not qualify as an alternative to a NICS check.

On April 28, 2017, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) published an Open Letter to all Minnesota FFLs stating that a valid Minnesota State Permit to Carry could be used as an alternative to initiating a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person.  This guidance was issued with the understanding that a complete NICS check was run on all permit applicants.  This guidance is no longer valid.  Minnesota’s State Permit to Carry application form does not currently require non-U.S. citizens to provide the information necessary to run an Immigration Alien Query (IAQ) check at the time the NICS check is performed.  Therefore, Minnesota’s Permit to Carry cannot be an exception to the background check requirement pursuant 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3), and this permit cannot be used by a purchaser nor accepted by an FFL as an alternative to a NICS background check.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension has posted the following the their website as well:

Note to Federal Firearms Licensees and Permit Holders: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) on October 19, 2018, issued a letter to the BCA stating, "All Minnesota Federal Firearms Licensees are required to conduct a NICS background check prior to the transfer of a firearm to a non-licensee even if that person presents a valid Permit to Carry." If you have any questions please call the ATF's Firearms Industry Programs Branch at 202-648-7190.

Eric

NICS Business Relations Team
Link Posted: 12/1/2018 1:00:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Information so good, it needed to be posted twice...
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 12:23:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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Information so good, it needed to be posted twice...
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The posts were seconds a part NOT TWICE
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 12:16:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 10:30:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Thought I would address the subject of Capras.
I was just in there yesterday picking up a rifle and they did indeed run NICS through the website.
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