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Posted: 5/7/2020 2:07:34 PM EDT
Is it legal to have the glock mounted in the car?
I have a concealed if it makes a difference.

https://phantomholsters.com/collections/holsters-mounts/products/phantom-quickdraw
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 4:31:05 PM EDT
as long as it's incased (i.e. holster, inside of something) you're GTG.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 4:31:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By searchin4­shacks:
as long as it's incased (i.e. holster, inside of something) you're GTG.
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I wouldn't recommend it be in plain sight.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 4:42:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2020 4:42:56 PM EDT by LeonC]
Is this considering encased?

Link Posted: 5/7/2020 4:59:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2020 5:01:43 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
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IMO, no, that does not meet the "securely encased" requirement. Unfortunately, retention type holsters have not been challenged as meeting the requirement. An arrest and court case would have to happen OR the law modified. Good luck getting anything modified.



ETA- IMO those rigs are great... BUT... they are designed to make your firearm readily assessable for immediate use... sound familiar?
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 5:12:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2020 5:13:21 PM EDT by Iamhere]
Agree with Bowhntr6pt. No go.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 5:21:02 PM EDT
From the statutes:

"it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use."

I think the two-step rule is a fairly safe guideline but it's not actually codified in law as far as I'm aware and I'd worry that LEO wouldn't consider that "securely encased". With that particular setup I'd also be worried about leaving it sitting in the open like that for anyone to see. That would be less of a concern if it goes on your person when you get out, but even then you might consider moving it to the side of the seat or something just to minimize the time and distance spent fiddling with a handgun in a parking lot. I was always worried some Karen was going to walk by and lose her mind seeing me moving between IWB and car carry.

I pocket carry my P365 everywhere these days, but when I was still doing the IWB thing with my G26 I'd just put the holstered pistol in the center console storage or keep it in a case under the seat. Not as quick to deploy, but I could (and occasionally did) stage it to be able to cut a few steps out of the process if it came to it. That also left no indication that there would be a gun in the car in the event I wasn't able to carry somewhere while out and about.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 5:49:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CZRider:
I think the two-step rule is a fairly safe guideline.... 
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Please stop with the nonsense.



Link Posted: 5/7/2020 7:37:26 PM EDT
If the holster has a snap your ok by the law.  Now if some cop wants to make a deal of it they will.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 8:06:37 PM EDT
@Bowhntr6pt

The OP states he has a concealed carry license.  Does this absolve him of the “securely encased” requirement?  In other words, is off-body placement of a firearm sans holster or any other type of encasement by the holder of a CWP legal per the statute?
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 8:48:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2020 9:25:19 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
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Originally Posted By 9mmCarbin­e:
@Bowhntr6pt

The OP states h­e has a concealed carry license.  Does this absolve him of the “securely enca­sed” requirement?  In other words, is off-body placement of a firearm sans holster or a­ny other type of encasement by the holder of ­a CWP legal per the statute?
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Deleted as we discussed things.

If not on the person, needs to be securely encase or not readily assessable. Until a case comes along that says retention/locking holsters satisfy this, I don't think that mount is legal.



Link Posted: 5/7/2020 9:31:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6p­t:


Deleted as we discussed th­ings.

If not on the person, needs to be sec­urely encase or not readily assessable. Until a case comes along that says retention/locking holsters satisfy this, I don't think ­that mount is legal. 



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Thanks for the phone call- good conversation.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 9:36:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6p­t:


Please stop with the nonse­nse. 



View Quote



The "two step" or "X step" (i've heard 3 before too)  rule is indeed horse hockey.  However, it may be a good indicator.  Law says securely encased AND not available for immediate access.    While I think we could all agree that a retention holster is indeed securely encased (hey, if not, why do the cops use 'em? why can i take this here pistol and shake it around in the same model holster and it doesn't fall out?) I think we could all argue that one mounted on the center console or whatever is handy instead of strapped to your hip is in fact available for immediate access.

Might beat the rap but you won't beat the ride or the law-talkin' person bill(s).  But go ahead - no challenges to laws w/o test cases usually... so if you want to volunteer yourself go for it.

All that said, I ain't a lawyer and I've only spent 10 minutes at the Levin School of Law and that was looking for a bathroom and a vending machine on my way over to a friends house when I was in middle school....
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 9:52:33 PM EDT
Concealed means concealed

If an officer manages to find the gun in my car it means my car is getting tossed, and that's only happening if I'm already under arrest.

The rig in the OP is absolutely not concealed.  Got a center console you could bolt a holster in?  I've got an RTI wheel bolted in with a g-code holster attached with the grip pointing straight up.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 12:25:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2020 12:49:35 AM EDT by wmagrush]
In Florida an automobile is an extension of your home when it comes to protecting oneself from violent attack, at least in unincorporated areas of the state. That means you do not need to have a CWP in order to have the firearm readily accessible in an automobile or other form of conveyance. No different than a firearm on your nightstand. Commonly called the Castle Doctrine Law, it is SB-436 passed in March 2005 and signed into law by Gov Jeb Bush in April 2005.

Note that to research this you need to include the year with the bill number. Numbers restart each legislative year.

A firearm on the passenger seat covered by a newspaper, or in a hard mount covered by a bandana is legal. If people need to get  picky about the 2-step thing, then yes :step 1) remove covering. Step 2) pick up firearm.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 4:50:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By eye-gor:

Law says securely encased AND ­not available for immediate access.    

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...if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 4:57:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2020 5:01:31 AM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
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Originally Posted By wmagrush:
In Florida an automobile is an ext­ension of your home when it comes to protecti­ng oneself from violent attack, at least in u­nincorporated areas of the state. That means you do not need to have a CWP in ­order to have the firearm readily accessible ­in an automobile or other form of conveyance. No different than a firearm on your nightsta­nd. Commonly called the Castle Doctrine Law, it ­is SB-436 passed in March 2005 and signed into law ­by Gov Jeb Bush in April 2005.

Note that to research this you need t­o include the year with the bill number. Numbers restart each legislative year.

A firearm on the passenger seat cover­ed by a newspaper, or in a hard mount covered­ by a bandana is legal. If people need to get  picky about the 2-step thing, then yes :step 1) remove covering. Step 2) pick up firearm.
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FSS 790.25

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 9:27:03 AM EDT
Oh I'd venture to say OP has been giving good advise to avoid that method of mounting, free world do as you wish but eventually you will come across someone who isn't going to agree with that being sufficient in satisfying the requirements.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 10:32:35 AM EDT
Thanks for all your help guys. I appreciate the insight.
Will avoid.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 8:47:17 AM EDT
Someone makes one of those type mounts that is basically a holster with a snap closure. Can't remember who though.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 9:33:32 AM EDT
You could always get a cross-draw holster and have it on your person, when you are driving. I find it easier and safer, especially if you get into an accident or something.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 2:54:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 9mmCarbin­e:
@Bowhntr6pt

The OP states h­e has a concealed carry license.  Does this absolve him of the “securely enca­sed” requirement?  In other words, is off-body placement of a firearm sans holster or a­ny other type of encasement by the holder of ­a CWP legal per the statute?
View Quote


I think you are correct.

790.01 clearly states “on or about” your persons. A CCW doesn’t necessarily have to be on your person.

790.25 addresses “without a license.”  With that wording, it is saying that “with a license” is ok.

Securely encased has nothing to do with a person that has a valid CCW.

I’m interested in your guys thoughts.  I’m simply opining, not giving legal advice.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 4:00:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2020 4:13:42 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
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Originally Posted By RLR350:


I think you are correct.

790.01 clearly states “on or about” your persons. A CCW doesn’t necessarily have to be on your­ person.

790.25 addresses “without a license.”  With that wording, it is saying that “with­ a license” is ok.

Securely encased has nothing to do wi­th a person that has a valid CCW.

I’m interested in your guys thoughts.  I’m simply opining, not giving legal advice.
View Quote


I could very well be wrong and reading too much into it... My hang up is in the part of LAWFUL USES. Securely encased is mentioned specifically in LWAFUL USES and POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYNACE.

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;


The above clearly states Open Carry and Concealed Carry laws don't matter and do not apply when in your car as per (j), at least that's how I read it.

I don't know if that's the Legislative Intent, to single out being in a conveyance, but when in your car, the securely encased crap gets tossed into the mix twice. It makes no mention of a having a CWP or not as the law says forget about the CC law in the following circumstances, then mentions conveyance. Even with (j) the legislature went on to emphasize conveyance with adding (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYNACE.

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

Again we see a connection between conveyance and securely encased.

Was it an attempt to curb the ease of firearm violence in road rage? I strongly suspect the securely encased requirement is for vehicles in an attempt to curb road rage incidents involving a firearm.









Link Posted: 5/9/2020 4:24:15 PM EDT
No concealed license means box with lid closed, glove compartment snapped closed, center console with lid secured.
With CWL means anywhere with a rag thrown over it or concealed properly on your body.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 5:19:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2020 5:44:18 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
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Originally Posted By Iamhere:
No concealed license means box wit­h lid closed, glove compartment snapped close­d, center console with lid secured.
With CWL means anywhere with a rag thrown­ over it or concealed properly on your body.
View Quote


Not "anywhere" in a vehicle, just "on or about" your person. If the pistol is sitting on the back seat it must be securely encased or not readily assessable for immediate use. See Jon Gutmacher's book on Florida Firearms laws, page 88. He addresses the securely encased issue and vehicles. His opinion is you can carry on or about your person or securely encased, pick one. I take that to mean he believes the securely encased requirement does not apply if the pistol is on or about your person while you're in your car. He also says there is no case law on it.  

The only place I can find a securely encased requirement in the law is FSS 790.25. That law clearly says FSS 790.01 (CC w/o License), 790.06 (License to CC), and 790.058 (Open Carry) do not apply when traveling in a conveyance.

790.25(3)(j) addresses 790.058 & 790.06 and contains a securely encased requirement w/o a CWP exception in connection with a conveyance.

790.25(5) addresses 790.01 and contains a securely encased requirement in connection with a conveyance.

No law that I can find exempts the securely encased/conveyance connection. Remember... that law says what is says and doesn't say what it doesn't say.

Another example of how our laws could be a little clearer. One sentence in the law would make a difference.

My posts are PURELY for discussion and not to agitate or confront. I like batting this stuff back and forth.

ETA- and for the record, no way would I arrest on this stuff absent other factors, which has happened...



Link Posted: 5/9/2020 6:01:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6p­t:


Not "anywhere" in a vehicl­e, just "on or about" your person. 


View Quote


Was thinking and not explaining.

Will put the thing in passengers seat and throw a towel over it or sometimes if the wife is with me in the woods I'll fold a towel around it and put it on the floorboard by my foot.
Or it could be on my body under  a shirt

or behind passengers seat with a rag over it and reachable, so that is other than glove compartment or center console that latches.

No, haven't misplaced it yet.

Can't tell you where guns are in the house.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 7:25:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RLR350:


I think you are correct.

790.01 clearly states “on or about” your persons. A CCW doesn’t necessarily have to be on your­ person.

FSS 790.01 deals only with UNLICENSED CONCEALED CARRY. We all know you can't CC on or about your person w/o a license. FSS 790.25 refers to this and says hey, forget this law if you're in your car. You can have a firearm concealed in your car w/o a license so long as it is securely encased. Oh, and by the way, it CAN NOT be on your person (see the end of (5).  

790.25 addresses “without a license.”  With that wording, it is saying that “with­ a license” is ok.

Again, the laws what it says and doesn't say what it doesn't say. The "without a license" part follows the "concealed" part, as in you don't need to have a license if the firearm is concealed. Then the law goes on to add the securely encased requirement. Believing it's says having a license makes it ok is an assumption.

Securely encased has nothing to ­do with a person that has a valid CCW.

That's where I believe the problem is... people are linking the CC law which says nothing about conveyances or securely encased, which FFS 790.25 says does not apply, with the LAWFUL USE and POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE laws. People are assuming. We know that's dangerous to do. Again, we only find reference to securely encased when conveyances are thrown into the mix.

I’m interested in your guys thoughts.  I’m simply opining, not giving legal advice.
View Quote


Went back and read what you posted... see red above.

How am I doing...
Link Posted: 5/10/2020 1:22:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6p­t:


I could very well be wrong­ and reading too much into it... My hang up is in the part of LAWFUL USES. Securely encased is mentioned specifically i­n LWAFUL USES and POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVE­YNACE.

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite­ such sections, it is lawful for the followin­g persons to own, possess, and lawfully use f­irearms and other weapons, ammunition, and su­pplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private con­veyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapo­n is securely encased and not in the person’s­ manual possession;


The above clearly states Open ­Carry and Concealed Carry laws don't matter a­nd do not apply when in your car as per (j), ­at least that's how I read it. 

I don't know if that's the Legislati­ve Intent, to single out being in a conveyanc­e, but when in your car, the securely encased­ crap gets tossed into the mix twice. It makes no mention of a having a CWP or not­ as the law says forget about the CC law in t­he following circumstances, then mentions con­veyance. Even with (j) the legislature went on to emp­hasize conveyance with adding (5) POSSESSION ­IN PRIVATE CONVEYNACE.

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CON­VEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful­ and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to p­ossess a concealed firearm or other weapon fo­r self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private co­nveyance, without a license, if the firearm o­r other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible f­or immediate use.

Again we see a connection betw­een conveyance and securely encased. 

Was it an attempt to curb the ease o­f firearm violence in road rage? I strongly s­uspect the securely encased requirement is fo­r vehicles in an attempt to curb road rage in­cidents involving a firearm. 



 



 

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I appreciate the dialogue and read all of your post, just chose this one for a response.

The LAWFUL USES portion of 790.25 is describing situations where possession is lawful.  It is saying the open carry law (790.053) doesn’t apply and there is not a requirement to have a permit (790.06) under the situations described.  (I think this is where we differ in the interpretation) This is a descriptive, permissive statute, not a restrictive statute.  It’s saying x,y and z are ok.  They don’t violate 790.053 and you don’t need a permit under 790.06 for them to be legal.

790.25(5) is saying that if you don’t have a permit there is still a way to possess (not carry) a concealed weapon in your car.  That way is securely encased and not on your person.  It is not saying that carrying on or about your person under 790.06 becomes illegal once you move inside a vehicle.  Another way, if you possess in a car, not on or about your person, securely encased then you don’t need a permit under 790.06 and you’re not violating 790.01. As I stated in a different post, the distinction made about “without a license” is there for a reason.  Remove that wording and it changes the statute.  That doesn’t “assume” anything.

If we were to charge someone, which we wouldn’t, but let’s say we did, the chargeable statute is either 790.01, concealed carry without a permit or 790.053, open carry.  790.06 is referenced in both,  First, accidental exposure of a 790.06 permitted weapon is not a violation of 790.053.  Not really an issue here.  More importantly, 790.01 has three elements: (1) carry a concealed weapon, (2) on or about your person, and (3) without a permit under 790.06.  If a person has a permit and carrying under the guidelines in 790.06, they cannot be charged because of element (3).  Moving from open space to a vehicle does not change anything. 790.25 has nothing to do with it.

Now, 790.06 has its own enumerated restrictions.  If you are carrying in violation of the enumerated restrictions it is not legal, this makes element three above in play.  Moving from an open space to a vehicle is not a listed restriction and doesn’t violate 790.06.  Think about this scenario.  A person carries under 790.06 IWB, no holster.  It is perfectly lawful walking down the street.  When he gets in the car it doesn’t suddenly become a violation of 790.01, the chargeable statute, because of 790.25(5).  It’s impossible.

In short, 790.25 is there to add a legal way to posses, not carry, a concealed weapon in a vehicle.  It is not a modifier or restriction on 790.06. It is also consistent with what you posted regarding Gutmacher’s interpretation.  I don’t have any of his books handy right now.

Lastly, the final sentence in 790.25(5) reinforces this: This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Of course, as I stated before, it’s just my opinion. I’m not locked into it.

Link Posted: 5/10/2020 4:48:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RLR350:


I appreciate the dialogue ­and read all of your post, just chose this on­e for a response.

The LAWFUL USES portion of 790.25 is describing situations where possession ­is lawful.  It is saying the open carry law (790.053) doesn’t apply and there is not a require­ment to have a permit (790.06) under the situations described.  (I think this is where we differ in the int­erpretation) This is a descriptive, permissiv­e statute, not a restrictive statute.  It’s saying x,y and z are ok.  They don’t violate 790.053 and you don’t need a permit under 790.06 for them to be legal.

790.25(5) is saying that if you don’t have a perm­it there is still a way to possess (not carry­) a concealed weapon in your car.  That way is securely encased and not on you­r person.  It is not saying that carrying on or about ­your person under 790.06 becomes illegal once you move inside a veh­icle.  Another way, if you possess in a car, not o­n or about your person, securely encased then­ you don’t need a permit under 790.06 and you’re not violating 790.01. As I stated in a different post, the distinc­tion made about “without a license” is there ­for a reason.  Remove that wording and it changes the stat­ute.  That doesn’t “assume” anything.

If we were to charge someone, which w­e wouldn’t, but let’s say we did, the chargea­ble statute is either 790.01, concealed carry without a permit or 790.053, open carry.  790.06 is referenced in both,  First, accidental ­exposure of a 790.06 permitted weapon is not a violation of 790.053.  Not really an issue here.  More importantly, 790.01 has three elements: (1) carry a concealed weapon, (2) on or abou­t your person, and (3) without a permit under­ 790.06.  If a person has a permit and carrying under­ the guidelines in 790.06, they cannot be charged because of element­ (3).  Moving from open space to a vehicle does no­t change anything. 790.25 has nothing to do with it.

Now, 790.06 has its own enumerated restrictions.  If you are carrying in violation of the enu­merated restrictions it is not legal, this ma­kes element three above in play.  Moving from an open space to a vehicle is n­ot a listed restriction and doesn’t violate 7­90.06.  Think about this scenario.  A person carries under 790.06 IWB, no holster.  It is perfectly lawful walking down the str­eet.  When he gets in the car it doesn’t suddenly­ become a violation of 790.01, the chargeable statute, because of 790.25(5).  It’s impossible.

In short, 790.25 is there to add a legal way to posses, not­ carry, a concealed weapon in a vehicle.  It is not a modifier or restriction on 790.06. It is also consistent with what you posted r­egarding Gutmacher’s interpretation.  I don’t have any of his books handy right n­ow.

Lastly, the final sentence in 790.25(5) reinforces this: This subsection shall be liberally construed­ in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and p­ossession of firearms and other weapons, incl­uding lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Of course, as I stated before, it’s j­ust my opinion. I’m not locked into it.

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Of course, as I stated before, it’s just my opinion. I’m not locked into it.

Same here, thanks. I really like the liberally construed part, very wise aspect of the law and illustrates the intent of the law.
Link Posted: 5/10/2020 3:18:09 PM EDT
So what’s the view of carrying a rifle laying on the back floor of your 4 door truck. I’m a CWP holder but when I head out to hunt I place my rifle on the back floor under the folded up seats covered in a towel. There are times when the rifle is loaded.
Link Posted: 5/10/2020 3:25:06 PM EDT
One of my guys hooked someone up one night many years ago for having a gun stuffed between the seats our phone call a few minutes later went something like this.

Dep. - ahh....sarge .....I got a problem....blah blah and I searched him and he has a CWP and its valid.

Sgt. - is he still in handcuffs?

Dep. - " yeah"

Sgt. - "why"

Dep. - "carrying a concealed firearm"

Sgt. - "you mean carrying a concealed firearm with a valid carry permit? Let me know if that is a felony or a misdemeanor and what the statue number is and be sure to put the permit number and the fact that its valid on your arrest affidavit....."

Dep. - "yeah doesn't sound right does it"

Sgt. - " ya think....you need me to come up there?

Dep. - " nope"

What had happened was.... deputy asks driver to step out and back to his car in a traffic stop. Permit holder kinda panics and dumps his gun and steps out not wanting to get out with his gun on.  Not necessarily a bad idea but the furtive movements make it look like he is dumping a gun which starts things going sideways. Permit holder then jams up and doesnt talk anymore till he is cuffed and getting searched, which also isnt a bad thing. People say stupid things which can make things much worse.

I'd say most of florida firearms case law revolves around enhancements for other offenses and felon in possesion cases and the close ones always go to the defendant.

I dont think there is any chargeable offense in Florida for mounting that pistol and having a CWP.

Link Posted: 5/10/2020 3:35:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Norecoil1:
So what’s the view of carrying a r­ifle laying on the back floor of your 4 door ­truck. I’m a CWP holder but when I head out to hunt­ I place my rifle on the back floor under the­ folded up seats covered in a towel. There are times when the rifle is loaded. 
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Your good to go.  The law everyone is talking about is handgun, not long gun.

FSS 790.25

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
Link Posted: 5/11/2020 11:36:09 PM EDT
So technically if you have a rifle and a PCC under the folded up backseat even with a CWP you are in violation if the pistol is loaded.


Even better is I hunt hogs and deer with a 7” 300 blackout 80% finished lower ( no ssn) Its loaded on the way to the camp on the backseat storage compartment with the seats lifted.

I guess if I place the 300 blackout in a zip up case I would be good to go.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 11:19:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 11:36:50 AM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Norecoil1:
So technically if you have a rifle­ and a PCC under the folded up backseat even ­with a CWP you are in violation if the pistol­ is loaded. 


Even better is I hunt hogs and d­eer with a 7” 300 blackout 80% finished lower­ ( no ssn) Its loaded on the way to the camp ­on the backseat storage compartment with the ­seats lifted.

I guess if I place the 300 blackout i­n a zip up case I would be good to go.
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Keep in mind, my comments are purely for discussion as to how the laws are not as clear as they could be.

I'm wanting to know why the legislature saw fit to state in FSS 790.25 that the three laws already discussed (790.01, 790.06, and 790.053) do not apply, as connected with transporting a firearm in a private conveyance, and then emphasize twice in the law about the securely encased crap. It can be argued based solely on the written law that the legislative intent, CCP or not, was to have all handguns "securely encased or not readily assessable" for what I assume is an effort to reduce the propensity for quick use as road range incidents can be problematic.

Otherwise, the legislature would be saying all non-CCP holders can't be trusted to have a pistol in their car unless securely encased... I don't think that's reasonable nor the intent.

As to your question, no, I don't see that as a violation because under the back seat, or even in the back seat, renders the firearm "not readily assessable for immediate use" IMO (obviously not a lawyer). Besides, if they are long guns, and not AR Pistols, it doesn't matter anyway, caliber matters not, SRB's matter not, loaded or unloaded per se matters not (although unloaded by case law renders the pistol not readily available for immediate use). If your PCC is technically a pistol, then it might matter depending on where in the vehicle it is stored.

I'm going to try to get the SAO to hep me clarify the status of CCP holders and the securely encased requirement... but I'm afraid if I ask several sources I'll get different answers LOL.

I agree with the above as well... these charges when made generally come on the heels of other charges and incidents vs. just a single FSS 790 violation.  




Link Posted: 5/12/2020 11:31:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deputygad­get:
One of my guys hooked someone up o­ne night many years ago for having a gun stuf­fed between the seats our phone call a few mi­nutes later went something like this. 

Dep. - ahh....sarge .....I got a problem....blah blah and I searched him and he has a CWP­ and its valid.

Sgt. - is he still in handcuffs?

Dep. - " yeah" 

Sgt. - "why" 

Dep. - "carrying a concealed firearm" 

Sgt. - "you mean carrying a concealed firearm with ­a valid carry permit? Let me know if that is ­a felony or a misdemeanor and what the statue­ number is and be sure to put the permit numb­er and the fact that its valid on your arrest­ affidavit....."

Dep. - "yeah doesn't sound right does it" 

S­gt. - " ya think....you need me to come up there?

Dep. - " nope"

What had happened was.... deputy asks driver to step out and back to h­is car in a traffic stop. Permit holder kinda panics and dumps his gun­ and steps out not wanting to get out with hi­s gun on.  Not necessarily a bad idea but the furtive ­movements make it look like he is dumping a g­un which starts things going sideways. Permit holder then jams up and doesnt talk a­nymore till he is cuffed and getting searched­, which also isnt a bad thing. People say stupid things which can make thin­gs much worse. 

I'd say most of florida firearms cas­e law revolves around enhancements for other ­offenses and felon in possesion cases and the­ close ones always go to the defendant. 

I dont think there is any chargeable­ offense in Florida for mounting that pistol ­and having a CWP.

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Good read and got a chuckle out of it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 11:41:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deputygad­get:

I'd say most of florida firear­ms case law revolves around enhancements for ­other offenses and felon in possesion cases a­nd the close ones always go to the defendant. 

I dont think there is any chargeable­ offense in Florida for mounting that pistol ­and having a CWP.

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Yep, can't say I've ever seen any of our folks make a charge absent something else more serious.

That mount is really no different than a kydex holster really, no snap, no strap, etc.... so if a CCP matters as far as "securely encased" requirement, I agree. It's just a non-secure holster mounted on the dash vs. your belt.  
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 10:06:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RLR350:


I think you are correct.

790.01 clearly states “on or about” your persons. A CCW doesn’t necessarily have to be on your­ person.

790.25 addresses “without a license.”  With that wording, it is saying that “with­ a license” is ok.

Securely encased has nothing to do wi­th a person that has a valid CCW.

I’m interested in your guys thoughts.  I’m simply opining, not giving legal advice.
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That's correct, if OP has a cwl he could just lay it in the seat next to him not in a holster with a towel or whatever covering it.  

But it must be concealed. Hence concealed weapons lic.  There is no made up 3 step move involved here.

You can mount a holster in your car as long as you keep it concealed from view. Like between your legs under the dash as long as it's not in plain view.

All these law/regulations for having it in a holster in the glove box secured ect are for those that do not have a concealed weapons lic.

Heck I've even put on my passenger seat just covered up not in holster with safety on. That's perfectly legal with a cwl.

I've been cwl 30 years or when they first allowed it.
I've got a holster mounted under my dash within easy reach.

There is a defense trial lawyer that has written a book on Florida gun laws. Can't remember his name right now.

If you have a cwl I highly recommend you buy it.

But I own the book and you get free updates for it when any laws change.

As stated above I’m simply opining, not giving legal advice. Just saying what I know.


Link Posted: 5/18/2020 10:08:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2020 1:02:37 PM EDT by firemedic2000]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iamhere:
No concealed license means box wit­h lid closed, glove compartment snapped close­d, center console with lid secured.

With CWL means anywhere with ­a rag thrown over it or concealed properly on­ your body.
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Exactly correct.

Thanks bowhntr6pt that the lawyer who wrote the book and I forgot his name Jon Gutmacher's book on Florida Firearms laws.

A must have if you have a CWL

Now coming and going to the gun range. I just stack weapons in the back seat of my truck. Not concealed or covered up. Rifle must be visible or maybe concealed in a gun case.

Some in cases some not. Been stopped before.

Officer: where you going that's alot of guns.

ME:To the range.

OFFICER: I shoot there. I'm off on this day if you go shooting here's my number.

LOL

That day I had a SCAR 17 Suppressed, SCAR16 Suppressed a M40A5 suppressed a LWCR 6.8 spc with thermal mounted.

To be fair he saw my union decal for FIRE RESCUE and asked who I worked for. The same county as him.

That's why he gave me his number. Invited him to station for lunch or dinner too.

But even though you do not have to. I always give my cwl along with my drivers lic when stopped and tell them right up front I'm armed.

I know you do not have to do this and all this, none of their business what I or am concealing yada, yada.

Officers have a hard enough time as it is and this just makes it easier for them. If you communicate with them right up front.

They always asked where is it. Never had one ask to see it. They just say leave it there.

95% of LEOs have no problems with people with CWL.

It's usually new officers that just moved here from up North that do not fully understand our gun laws

Then conversation with supervisor goes like poster above stated.

But there are a few areas like Miami/Dade and PINELLAS county whrre they can be some what asses about it sometimes.

Has a PINELLAS county deputy that ask me once when I gave him my drivers license and cwl make a snide remark once.

He said good thing you gave this to me. I could have shot you if I saw it. He was a young deputy. I just said yes that would have been bad. That was many years ago around when cwl were first issued.

But a holster is a great idea if mounted properly. I have a hugh center console in my truck. I'm getting a holster that mounts to the lid of console.

The one between my legs is too difficult to reach when my back hurts.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 1:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2020 1:13:25 PM EDT by firemedic2000]
This was copied and pasted from questions about CWL post at top of HTF.

I have a FL CWL, while in my car can I have the gun under the seat?  Maybe in between my seats? 

The law gives you permission to carry a "concealed weapon" or a "concealed firearm" "on or about" yourself as long as it is concealed "from the ordinary sight of another person". 

Lets look at the definitions for clarification ... 

Case law defines "on or about" as such ... 

("on or about the person" means "physically on the person or readily accessible to him"); Bailey v. State,  442 So.2d 385, 386 (Fla.App.1983) ("on or about the person" means "close proximity to him within his easy reach").
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A FL CWL gives you permission to carry a "concealed weapon" or "Concealed Firearm" (with the exception of a MG) which is defined as: 

(2)  "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person. 

(3)(a)  "Concealed weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.
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So yes, assuming that you have a CWL and there are no unlicensed person(s) in your car with you, it "should" be legal to have your firearm  "on or about you" and "out of ordinary sight".  This is assuming that case law does not say differently.  Remember that no unlicensed persons can be in the car with you.  It may be legal for you to have it hidden between your seats covered with a towel but your unlicensed wife in the seat next you can be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon since it is ALSO readily accessible to her. 
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But, in reality - carrying like this some LEOs that do not know the LAW or agree with it "might" give you some crap and I don't recommend it.  Keep the dam thing on your belt where it belongs. 


We use to joke that if you had an old gun that was not worth anything. If you had an assHo friend or relative you did not like. That did not have a CWL. Put it under their car seat and get stopped. They get nailed.

This was many years ago. Would never do that to someone.

This is the link and answers all your questions you may have

FL-Concealed-Weapons-License-Firearm-Carry-Car-Carry-Resident-Non-Resident-FAQ-UPDATED-10-30-19/10-301146/
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 4:26:02 PM EDT
I am not a lawyer and I don't wish to be a test case for the courts. So, mine stays in a holster on my belt or inside my latching center console, in its holster, at all times.
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