User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 10:27:55 AM EDT
[#1]
How’s that work out for prostitutes selling condoms?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 12:26:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Last time I checked the current situation in D.C is that weed is not legal to sell. But it is legal to gift. So you purchase a plastic bag for $100, and you get a gift of weed. It sounds like what you are talking about.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#3]
They did not include the term "barter" in the law - would have been simple to include it.
There seems to be a legal difference. Sales Distinguished From Barter |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 3:58:02 PM EDT
[#4]
I'd say it's the same concept as money laundering. Trying to sell something with the intention of it being a high markup in order to conceal what you're really selling. I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is this will not uphold in any sort of criminal court if both party knew they're buying the value d item and "gifted" a gun of proportional value. Sort of like you know by itself, you'd never pay $500 dollars for a paper bag unless you knew it contained a firearm, etc. I imagine if you could prove that you constantly buy empty $500 paper bags for whatever reason and the one time you bought an empty bag you got a free gun that might work but it's a bit far fetched.
However, I think by definition you'd be violating federal laws if you were buying a gun to gift someone else. I wonder if by this alone could this be ruled unconstitutional since it is a direct violation of federal laws? You say on the form that you're buying it for the intention of using it yourself, technically you're not supposed to give it to anyone else to use. So the reality is you never intended to gift it but perhaps you need to hand the firearms off to someone for purposes you could not foresee (death, moving to a retirement home, etc). |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 5:21:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: However, I think by definition you'd be violating federal laws if you were buying a gun to gift someone else. Firearms are regularly and legitimately gifted on a 4473. See the instructions for Question 11.a: A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 5:36:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd say it's the same concept as money laundering. Trying to sell something with the intention of it being a high markup in order to conceal what you're really selling. I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is this will not uphold in any sort of criminal court if both party knew they're buying the value d item and "gifted" a gun of proportional value. Sort of like you know by itself, you'd never pay $500 dollars for a paper bag unless you knew it contained a firearm, etc. I imagine if you could prove that you constantly buy empty $500 paper bags for whatever reason and the one time you bought an empty bag you got a free gun that might work but it's a bit far fetched. However, I think by definition you'd be violating federal laws if you were buying a gun to gift someone else. I wonder if by this alone could this be ruled unconstitutional since it is a direct violation of federal laws? You say on the form that you're buying it for the intention of using it yourself, technically you're not supposed to give it to anyone else to use. So the reality is you never intended to gift it but perhaps you need to hand the firearms off to someone for purposes you could not foresee (death, moving to a retirement home, etc). Although it is a violation of the "straw man" provision to buy a gun with the intent to give it to someone else IF THAT PERSON IS PROHIBITED FROM BUYING THE GUN HIMSELF. It is not a violation, however, to buy a gun to use as a bonafide gift. I have worked in a gun store for the past 12 1/2 years, and have sold many guns to wives / girlfriends / parents / and others who were buying the guns as Christmas or birthday gifts. The first question on the 4473 form asks if the buyer is purchasing the gun for his or her own use. In the directions on the back of the form, it states that using the gun as a bonafide gift is considered to be a lawful use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 5:51:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They did not include the term "barter" in the law - would have been simple to include it. There seems to be a legal difference. Sales Distinguished From Barter That would fall under "goods, services, or anything else of value". In short, no, legitimate gift/loan or CHP is the only way around this law, unless you're willing to be a test case for overturning it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2020 6:32:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Although it is a violation of the "straw man" provision to buy a gun with the intent to give it to someone else IF THAT PERSON IS PROHIBITED FROM BUYING THE GUN HIMSELF. The purpose of a straw purchase is to conceal the identity of the true buyer/recipient of the firearm, whether that person is prohibited or not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 6:55:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks all. I think I will give this a few months after it goes into effect and see what people are *actually* doing.
Quote HistoryQuoted: In short, no, legitimate gift/loan or CHP is the only way around this law, unless you're willing to be a test case for overturning it. The only 'test case' I'm going to be is for the SWAT team if they ever come for me 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 7:18:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Looks like language was intended to not cover inheritance. Read literally, gifts not covered either.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 11:56:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks all. I think I will give this a few months after it goes into effect and see what people are *actually* doing. The only 'test case' I'm going to be is for the SWAT team if they ever come for me Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks all. I think I will give this a few months after it goes into effect and see what people are *actually* doing. Quoted: In short, no, legitimate gift/loan or CHP is the only way around this law, unless you're willing to be a test case for overturning it. The only 'test case' I'm going to be is for the SWAT team if they ever come for me Most people will follow the law. There will be those who don't know about the law. There will be those who say fuck the law. The majority will follow it. Did Coonman get his monies for his gun task force? Will be interesting to see the sting operations not in the shithole areas of Richmond where you know, the crime is, but in the rural counties. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 12:33:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In short, no, legitimate gift/loan or CHP is the only way around this law, unless you're willing to be a test case for overturning it. There is no CHP exception in the UBC bill. There is one in the one-gun-a-month law. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 1:56:43 PM EDT
[#13]
It would seem difficult to enforce as there is no paper keeping requirement.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 2:37:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would seem difficult to enforce as there is no paper keeping requirement. My guess is there will be highly publicized stings. Unless they do a registration, as you said, fear is the only motivator they have in enforcing the law. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 3:43:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Strangers will follow this law. Friends will not.
Not will those already buying guns on the street corner in the hood. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 8:01:32 PM EDT
[#16]
I think it would be easy for an investigator to show intent and probable cause of violating the law if you buy item x and recieve item x and the gun
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2020 11:18:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is there will be highly publicized stings. Unless they do a registration, as you said, fear is the only motivator they have in enforcing the law. From what I understand is that the penalty is a Class 1 misdemeanor, which according to the law book is punishment up to a year in jail and/or a $2500 fine. That's sort of hard to publish in any great effect. No they're going to need a frequent seller like that one dude who recently got busted on the VA gun trader website. That way they can bust them with a double whammy and get the desired effect by obscuring the real reason he's going to prison for so long and paying way more in fines. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2020 2:22:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand is that the penalty is a Class 1 misdemeanor, which according to the law book is punishment up to a year in jail and/or a $2500 fine. That's sort of hard to publish in any great effect. No they're going to need a frequent seller like that one dude who recently got busted on the VA gun trader website. That way they can bust them with a double whammy and get the desired effect by obscuring the real reason he's going to prison for so long and paying way more in fines. I didn't hear about that. What's that all about? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2020 8:21:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would seem difficult to enforce as there is no paper keeping requirement. My guess you will fillout the SP-65 and then it would be called in. If that's the way it will happen, FFL's turn those in at the end of the week...so there is "some" paper work. My question and I haven't been able to find an answer...what happens during a delayed response...I get the call back, sometimes within a couple minutes and some a couple days. Who holds the gun? If it's me it has to be logged in then back out and that is not happening for $15. I see every gun from now on being sold with an Uncle Mike's holster...I have this here Uncle Mike's holster that fits a S&W MP 5" and others, although in this picture you see a Glock 17...$500 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2020 10:32:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess you will fillout the SP-65 and then it would be called in. If that's the way it will happen, FFL's turn those in at the end of the week...so there is "some" paper work. My question and I haven't been able to find an answer...what happens during a delayed response...I get the call back, sometimes within a couple minutes and some a couple days. Who holds the gun? If it's me it has to be logged in then back out and that is not happening for $15. I see every gun from now on being sold with an Uncle Mike's holster...I have this here Uncle Mike's holster that fits a S&W MP 5" and others, although in this picture you see a Glock 17...$500 The FFL receives a "Delayed" response from NICS. The private party seller has two options: - He or she can leave with the firearm, if the private party seller has not left the firearm in the exclusive possession of the FFL. in this case, the FFL does not need to record the firearm in its a&d record. However, if the sale later occurs (because the FFL receives a "proceed" response from NICS or three business daysor the appropriate state waiting periodhave passed) the private party seller must return to the business premises of the FFL to complete the transfer to the buyer. At that time, the FFL will need to record the transaction as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records and record the disposition to the buyer no later than seven days following the transaction. - He or she can allow the FFL to keep the firearm at the business pending a response from nicS or until three business days (or the appropriate state waiting period if more than three business days) has passed with no response. in this case, the FFL has to take the firearm into inventory and record it as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records. if NICS later issues a "proceed" response, or no response after three business days (or the appropriate state waiting period if more than three business days) and the FFl decides to go forward with the transfer, the seller does not need to return to the premises to complete the transfer. the FFL will complete the transfer of the firearm to the buyer and record the disposition to the buyer in its a&d record no later than seven days following the transaction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2020 5:47:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: From what I understand is that the penalty is a Class 1 misdemeanor, which according to the law book is punishment up to a year in jail and/or a $2500 fine. That's sort of hard to publish in any great effect. No they're going to need a frequent seller like that one dude who recently got busted on the VA gun trader website. That way they can bust them with a double whammy and get the desired effect by obscuring the real reason he's going to prison for so long and paying way more in fines. Link to info on the VA guntrader case? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 9:07:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Last time I checked the current situation in D.C is that weed is not legal to sell. But it is legal to gift. So you purchase a plastic bag for $100, and you get a gift of weed. It sounds like what you are talking about. I believe this is the answer we all seek. Look at it this way: - the new law is clearly an “infringement;” - as an infringement, this new law is unconstitutional, unlawful, illegal, wrong - all of these. This infringement is: as obviously wrong as slavery or segregation / Jim Crow laws (and as MLK said: it’s not just acceptable to resist such laws, it is a moral obligation) - as a practical matter: look at DC: they “legalized” marijuana (in spite of the federal Controlled Substances Act) but then Congress made it illegal to “sell” marijuana in DC. Whatever means the people of DC are using (ie - a simple bag) is what we must do - what we are morally obligated to do - to get around this infringement. - as for “a bag” - I am usually given a simple paper bag when I buy a can of beer or bottle of wine. Why? To conceal it in public, of course, and it’s common to drink in the street from a paper bag - so there’s no “probable cause” and the arrest is supposed to get tossed in court). So I am not seeing any legal problem in selling a paper bag for $400, but “giving” the Glock inside away to a fellow Virginian. Remember - in 90+ of VA’s 95 counties, this law is completely invalid anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 9:28:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Here are the procedures to facilitate private sales: https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download. Keep in mind the $15 is the maximum you can charge for the background check, the transfer fee is not affected. The FFL receives a "Delayed" response from NICS. The private party seller has two options: - He or she can leave with the firearm, if the private party seller has not left the firearm in the exclusive possession of the FFL. in this case, the FFL does not need to record the firearm in its a&d record. However, if the sale later occurs (because the FFL receives a "proceed" response from NICS or three business daysor the appropriate state waiting periodhave passed) the private party seller must return to the business premises of the FFL to complete the transfer to the buyer. At that time, the FFL will need to record the transaction as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records and record the disposition to the buyer no later than seven days following the transaction. - He or she can allow the FFL to keep the firearm at the business pending a response from nicS or until three business days (or the appropriate state waiting period if more than three business days) has passed with no response. in this case, the FFL has to take the firearm into inventory and record it as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records. if NICS later issues a "proceed" response, or no response after three business days (or the appropriate state waiting period if more than three business days) and the FFl decides to go forward with the transfer, the seller does not need to return to the premises to complete the transfer. the FFL will complete the transfer of the firearm to the buyer and record the disposition to the buyer in its a&d record no later than seven days following the transaction. This is confusing - are you saying any delay requires the dealer take the firearm into possession, thus creating a record? FUCK that. The ONLY good thing about this law was it was a check, not a fucking transfer on the books. What if the delay is like 2-30mins or whatever like they always are? I get delayed every time for 10-30 mins. EVERY time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 9:48:36 AM EDT
[#24]
I don't see in the law where the firearm has to be transferred through the FFL dealer. Only the background check is required.
Are you saying an FFL dealer is going to charge a transfer fee on top of the background check? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 10:49:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beastfrog: I don't see in the law where the firearm has to be transferred through the FFL dealer. Only the background check is required. Are you saying an FFL dealer is going to charge a transfer fee on top of the background check? If only the background check is required, why doesn't the VSP set up a policy that these checks can be done at VSP area offices? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 11:16:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see in the law where the firearm has to be transferred through the FFL dealer. Only the background check is required. Are you saying an FFL dealer is going to charge a transfer fee on top of the background check? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 11:18:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is confusing - are you saying any delay requires the dealer take the firearm into possession, thus creating a record? FUCK that. The ONLY good thing about this law was it was a check, not a fucking transfer on the books. What if the delay is like 2-30mins or whatever like they always are? I get delayed every time for 10-30 mins. EVERY time. Unfortunately, dealers are bound by local, state and federal law. Only the VSP can perform a simple background check and from what I know, that only happens at some gun shows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 11:55:22 AM EDT
[#28]
The new law does not apply in sanctuary counties.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 12:20:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new law does not apply in sanctuary counties.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 2:00:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: It's not Virginia law, it's federal law. If a dealer facilitates a transfer between two parties, it must be recorded in the dealer's log and a 4473 must be completed. Dealers already charge a fee on top of the background fee. I don't read it that way. The dealer is simple doing the background check as mandated by VA state law. Same way VSP currently does private background checks at shows (for $2 I might add). VA did not mandate that the dealer do the transfer. Only that a background check be made. Predict this will end up a big mess. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 2:24:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't read it that way. The dealer is simple doing the background check as mandated by VA state law. Same way VSP currently does private background checks at shows (for $2 I might add). VA did not mandate that the dealer do the transfer. Only that a background check be made. Predict this will end up a big mess. From the ATF: "FFL-facilitated sales between private individuals are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other sale conducted by the FFL. In all cases, the prospective buyer must complete Section A of the Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473. The FFL must complete section B of the ATF Form 4473." Also see the below references: Recordkeeping and Background Check Procedure for Facilitation of Private Party Firearms Transfers. Open letter to all FFLs 2013-1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 2:55:06 PM EDT
[#32]
@HansohnBrothers, how will VSP conduct the check? Won’t they have at least a simple form so they can read the buyer’s and seller’s information? And if they have even the simplest of forms, won’t they keep that record?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 3:08:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @HansohnBrothers, how will VSP conduct the check? Won't they have at least a simple form so they can read the buyer's and seller's information? And if they have even the simplest of forms, won't they keep that record? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 3:15:53 PM EDT
[#34]
I am entirely serious.
Plus, even outside the sanctuary counties: - the law clearly doesn’t apply to a “free gift.” Therefore, it is entirely within the new Virginia law to SELL a pistol box for $500, the recipient gets a free gift: the pistol. Again: I am not kidding. This exact scenario is used in DC to sell federally-banned marijuana. Openly. Comply with the democrats new law. Just do it the right way: sell something for $$, and the sold item comes with a “free gift.” |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 3:22:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plus, even outside the sanctuary counties: - the law clearly doesn't apply to a "free gift." Therefore, it is entirely within the new Virginia law to SELL a pistol box for $500, the recipient gets a free gift: the pistol. Again: I am not kidding. This exact scenario is used in DC to sell federally-banned marijuana. Openly. Comply with the democrats new law. Just do it the right way: sell something for $$, and the sold item comes with a "free gift." |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: I'm good with that, I'm only outlining what the dealers have to comply with. The sanctuary thing, while I support it, carries absolutely no legal weight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Plus, even outside the sanctuary counties: - the law clearly doesn't apply to a "free gift." Therefore, it is entirely within the new Virginia law to SELL a pistol box for $500, the recipient gets a free gift: the pistol. Again: I am not kidding. This exact scenario is used in DC to sell federally-banned marijuana. Openly. Comply with the democrats new law. Just do it the right way: sell something for $$, and the sold item comes with a "free gift." Also, it’s not likely to be local LE that will be the concerns of anyone who gets looked at for this sort of thing. This will likely be VSPs province if they get involved. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: I'm assuming VSP will use the VCheck website. VSP keeps those on file for no longer than 30 days but dealers are required to keep the form for 2 years. ATF keeps the background check records for 48 hours, IIRC. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By Lexington: @HansohnBrothers, how will VSP conduct the check? Won't they have at least a simple form so they can read the buyer's and seller's information? And if they have even the simplest of forms, won't they keep that record? Thanks for the info. My cynical self thinks VSP will keep the records longer than technically allowed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 6:39:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: I'm good with that, I'm only outlining what the dealers have to comply with. The sanctuary thing, while I support it, carries absolutely no legal weight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Plus, even outside the sanctuary counties: - the law clearly doesn't apply to a "free gift." Therefore, it is entirely within the new Virginia law to SELL a pistol box for $500, the recipient gets a free gift: the pistol. Again: I am not kidding. This exact scenario is used in DC to sell federally-banned marijuana. Openly. Comply with the democrats new law. Just do it the right way: sell something for $$, and the sold item comes with a "free gift." I agree with Hanson Brothers. Y’all are good people & it’s abundantly clear to me you’re on our side.  I will add: - Hanson relies on (and requires) a Federally-issued FFL to be there for us. On top of all the fed requirements, they have state law to worry about - and a violation of either set of laws could jeopardize their business. Please understand the situation FFLs have been put in here. Same with the FFLs in other states: they are victims of over-zealous democrats. The FFL holders are not the enemy. We citizens, however, retain our rights. Follow the law, and be smart about it. Gifts are not prohibited.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2020 7:32:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: I believe this is the answer we all seek. Look at it this way: - the new law is clearly an “infringement;” - as an infringement, this new law is unconstitutional, unlawful, illegal, wrong - all of these. This infringement is: as obviously wrong as slavery or segregation / Jim Crow laws (and as MLK said: it’s not just acceptable to resist such laws, it is a moral obligation) - as a practical matter: look at DC: they “legalized” marijuana (in spite of the federal Controlled Substances Act) but then Congress made it illegal to “sell” marijuana in DC. Whatever means the people of DC are using (ie - a simple bag) is what we must do - what we are morally obligated to do - to get around this infringement. - as for “a bag” - I am usually given a simple paper bag when I buy a can of beer or bottle of wine. Why? To conceal it in public, of course, and it’s common to drink in the street from a paper bag - so there’s no “probable cause” and the arrest is supposed to get tossed in court). So I am not seeing any legal problem in selling a paper bag for $400, but “giving” the Glock inside away to a fellow Virginian. Remember - in 90+ of VA’s 95 counties, this law is completely invalid anyway. I'm with you. This BS is obviously a severe infringement on my 2A rights. These new laws are illegal, and we need to stop bending over and taking it dry...we need mass non-compliance. What we need is the police to ignore their dental plan for a minute, and stop enforcing these tyrannical "laws"...and follow the oath they swore to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2020 7:51:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: FFLs cannot perform background checks without a 4473. The Commonwealth has no authority to change that. If you don't want to fill out a 4473, you will have to go to VSP for the background check. From the ATF: "FFL-facilitated sales between private individuals are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other sale conducted by the FFL. In all cases, the prospective buyer must complete Section A of the Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473. The FFL must complete section B of the ATF Form 4473." Also see the below references: Recordkeeping and Background Check Procedure for Facilitation of Private Party Firearms Transfers. Open letter to all FFLs 2013-1 Thank you for that explanation. Appreciated. Sadly, Virginia is not the state I moved to 30 years ago. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2020 2:10:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Link to info on the VA guntrader case? Sorry didn't see your post. Here's the vaguntrader case: https://www.pilotonline.com/news/crime/article_82cf9f7a-3ea1-11e9-9b4e-4f7805b7d9d7.html I now remember more details now that I looked it up. The guy was given every benefit of doubt by the ATF agent and was told to just stop and walk away with no charges or anything, yet he just continued to do it then the ATF went all out with the charges. As a side note, I did went to the MCX listed in the story and remember they had some really sweat deals. Went in there recently and saw some really good stuff for well below the market price. So I can see how this is tempting for military folks low on cash. But it's people like this that they're going to bust and drop the book on that person. That way they can make sure they can parade this person around and show legal citizens that they're out to get them. But keep in mind you won't get into THAT much trouble by forgetting the UBC laws, so they really need to have someone like this to make it really stand out and scary. Also keep in mind, I don't think the ATF will be involved with these cases. It will be up to the VSP to enforce the local state laws, so it might be worse for folks as they are under funding restrictions and threat of being cut off if they don't enforce laws. So they might not be as forgiving as the ATF would be. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2020 2:21:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Meh.
Penelty is a misdemeanor, I will just add that to the other misdemeanors that register a zero. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2020 3:56:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beastfrog: Thank you for that explanation. Appreciated. Sadly, Virginia is not the state I moved to 30 years ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beastfrog: Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: FFLs cannot perform background checks without a 4473. The Commonwealth has no authority to change that. If you don't want to fill out a 4473, you will have to go to VSP for the background check. From the ATF: "FFL-facilitated sales between private individuals are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other sale conducted by the FFL. In all cases, the prospective buyer must complete Section A of the Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473. The FFL must complete section B of the ATF Form 4473." Also see the below references: Recordkeeping and Background Check Procedure for Facilitation of Private Party Firearms Transfers. Open letter to all FFLs 2013-1 Thank you for that explanation. Appreciated. Sadly, Virginia is not the state I moved to 30 years ago. I was born and raised here 60 years ago. I am NOT pleased. The DUMBS are running wild. panDEMic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2020 5:51:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33: Meh. Penalty is a misdemeanor, I will just add that to the other misdemeanors that register a zero. A Class 1 misdemeanor is right on the hairy edge of being prohibited federally, but not quite over the line. Virginia § 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor. The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are: (a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both. From ATF Form 4473: c. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Instructions for Question 11.c.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2020 9:22:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Class 1 misdemeanor is right on the hairy edge of being prohibited federally, but not quite over the line. Virginia 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor. The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are: (a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both. From ATF Form 4473: c. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Instructions for Question 11.c.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2020 11:20:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Wouldn't that still pose difficulties for folks whose job requires a clearance? Been a long while since I've filled out that form, but I thought there were questions about those sort of things? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By Lexington: A Class 1 misdemeanor is right on the hairy edge of being prohibited federally, but not quite over the line. Virginia 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor. The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are: (a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both. From ATF Form 4473: c. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Instructions for Question 11.c.) I do believe you are correct about that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2020 9:32:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I'm a simple-minded guy, and can't make much sense of legal mumbo-jumbo most of the time...but in regards to the above in Red and Blue , does this mean a person could sell someone a keychain for, say, $500, and then gift them a gun after the original transaction for the keychain is done? So what happens when you buy a keychain for $500, and there is no gift in return? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2020 9:52:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RenegadeX: So what happens when you buy a keychain for $500, and there is no gift in return? BRB, ordering a pallet of keychains from aliexpress One weird trick, gun owners hate it! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2020 10:33:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tyro: BRB, ordering a pallet of keychains from aliexpress One weird trick, gun owners hate it! You know it will happen, and it won’t end well! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2020 4:27:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lexington: I do believe you are correct about that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lexington: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By Lexington: A Class 1 misdemeanor is right on the hairy edge of being prohibited federally, but not quite over the line. Virginia 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor. The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are: (a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both. From ATF Form 4473: c. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Instructions for Question 11.c.) I do believe you are correct about that. SF-86 Questionnaire for National Security Positions. And for TS//SCI the 'owner' of the Compartment (FBI, NSA, CIA, NRO, DOE, etc) will do some checks of their own. At some point some climbing Commonwealth's Attorney is going to call you transaction fraudulent and take you into State Court. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
