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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:30:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 9:16:59 AM EDT
[#1]
nope

"For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver."

basically say it's up to the ATF for models in which basically every part could arguably need to be serialized.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 9:35:03 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By Jmo371:
nope

"For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver."

basically say it's up to the ATF for models in which basically every part could arguably need to be serialized.
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Originally Posted By Jmo371:
nope

"For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver."

basically say it's up to the ATF for models in which basically every part could arguably need to be serialized.
I read it a bit different, as did the Author...

The final vote, taken at about 4:45a.m., not only bans firearm build kits, but also effectively bans possession of completed guns made from parts or build kits.

Beginning 180 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly, unless the party receiving the firearm is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer, it is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number by (1) a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms or (2) a federal firearms manufacturer, federal firearms dealer, or other federal licensee authorized to provide marking services in compliance with the unserialized firearm serialization process under subsection (f) of this Section.

Then about the Uppers:

Take for example the prohibition of unserialized frames or receivers. The bill's definition of a receiver . . .

"Frame or receiver" means a part of a firearm that, when the complete weapon is assembled, is visible from the exterior and provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control components, even if pins or other attachments are required to connect those components to the housing or structure. For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver. For purposes of this definition, "fire control component" means a component necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.

Based on that language, it looks like your modular SIG SAUER P320 and P365 pistols will be banned unless the grip assemblies are serialized by an FFL.

But wait, it gets better. A reasonable reading of the bill would likely ban pretty much every AR-15 in Illinois, too . . .

For purposes of this definition, "fire control component" means a component necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.

That sounds like AR upper receivers will now require a serial number, as well as the lower. That's something very few upper receivers (if any) currently have. Will buying one in Illinois now require a background check/FTIP check? Will a FOID card be required to possess one in Illinois?

I might not like it or want it to read that, but it sure looks like it does...

I'm sure someone has one, but I have never seen an AR with a Serial on the upper.

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:04:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Another reason why I moved away years ago.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:25:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By smullen:
I read it a bit different, as did the Author...


I might not like it or want it to read that, but it sure looks like it does...

I'm sure someone has one, but I have never seen an AR with a Serial on the upper.

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Correct it basically defines every part on an Ar-15 as needing to be serialized, which is why it has the clause that addresses the multiple part's issue.....but if the ATF overnight decided that nope both receivers need a serial it would fall in line with it.

This seems to pretty much exactly target 80% kits/frames.....and it appears that the Sig FCU type guns would need a #on frame portion.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 6:39:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieD308] [#5]
I did not read the whole bill.  Is there an exemption for firearms owned by police agencies?  

If there is no exemption listed for police agencies, this will put them in a trick bag.  There are catch all Federal laws that indicate  any violation of a state or local law that regulates firearms is a violation of Federal law.  That in turn would require police agencies to file paperwork with the ATF on each and every firearm owned by the agency that is covered under this proposed state law.  The firearms would also be subject to periodic inspection by ATF regulatory personnel who current conduct inspections at Illinois FFL's.
Link Posted: 4/15/2022 2:40:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Here's a thought I just had on this, with the passage of this bill:

ALL existing pellet/air guns that shoot projectiles over 700 fps or larger than .18 caliber will be illegal unless you take it to an FFL to be officially serial numbered and logged. I say this because I guarantee that even though every single commercially produced airgun that shoots that fast will have a serial number on it, whether purchased legally after the 700 fps cap was added via an FFL, brought with you moving here or owned before the cap was implemented, none of those serial numbers was put on by an actual FFL or federally licensed firearm manufacturer and I believe that the same would seemingly be true of at least some black powder firearms on the market.


Beginning 180 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly, unless the party receiving the firearm is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer, it is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number by (1) a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms or (2) a federal firearms manufacturer, federal firearms dealer, or other federal licensee authorized to provide marking services in compliance with the unserialized firearm serialization process under subsection (f) of this Section.
Link Posted: 4/15/2022 6:50:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXCATM76] [#7]
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Originally Posted By smullen:
I read it a bit different, as did the Author...


I might not like it or want it to read that, but it sure looks like it does...

I'm sure someone has one, but I have never seen an AR with a Serial on the upper.

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Originally Posted By smullen:
I read it a bit different, as did the Author...


I might not like it or want it to read that, but it sure looks like it does...

I'm sure someone has one, but I have never seen an AR with a Serial on the upper.



If you read it that way every pistol slide would have to be serialized as well.

“Frame or receiver” means a part of a firearm that, when the complete weapon is assembled, is visible from the exterior and provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control components, even if pins or other attachments are required to connect those components to the housing or structure. For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver. For purposes of this definition, “fire control component” means a component necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.


You would have to ignore the part about the ATF defining what constitutes a receiver on firearms that have multiple structures that house such parts, if you are going to read it that ARs and 320s are banned.
Link Posted: 4/15/2022 7:48:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SageEBR] [#8]
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Originally Posted By EXCATM76:


If you read it that way every pistol slide would have to be serialized as well.



You would have to ignore the part about the ATF defining what constitutes a receiver on firearms that have multiple structures that house such parts, if you are going to read it that ARs and 320s are banned.
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Originally Posted By EXCATM76:
Originally Posted By smullen:
I read it a bit different, as did the Author...


I might not like it or want it to read that, but it sure looks like it does...

I'm sure someone has one, but I have never seen an AR with a Serial on the upper.



If you read it that way every pistol slide would have to be serialized as well.

“Frame or receiver” means a part of a firearm that, when the complete weapon is assembled, is visible from the exterior and provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control components, even if pins or other attachments are required to connect those components to the housing or structure. For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver. For purposes of this definition, “fire control component” means a component necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.


You would have to ignore the part about the ATF defining what constitutes a receiver on firearms that have multiple structures that house such parts, if you are going to read it that ARs and 320s are banned.


It's pretty clear (and sickening) that behind the scenes there had to be some direct coordination going on with the ATF given the timing and strong language similarities to their ruling/deferments to them in this bill.

I would also note another AR-15 part that could be considered an individual firearm requiring a serial number that isn't mentioned much in these threads would be a bolt carrier because even though it is a fire control component itself it also houses one and is externally visible. If you wanted to be really technical the handguard might also a firearm per their definition though they obtusely left gas block, gas tube and barrel out of their "including any of the following" list but they are all required to "continue the firing sequence".

Regardless of how things fall immediately after the implementation of this law, another noteworthy takeaway with the way it is written is that if the ATF, at some point in the future arbitrarily deems a part of a common existing firearm (AR15 uppers, or pistol slides if they aren't already considered firearms once the initial fallout settles), to actually themselves be considered firearms then every owner of those items in Illinois will instantly be breaking the law, there is no registration grace period for such an instance.
Link Posted: 4/29/2022 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By SageEBR:
Here's a thought I just had on this, with the passage of this bill:

ALL existing pellet/air guns that shoot projectiles over 700 fps or larger than .18 caliber will be illegal unless you take it to an FFL to be officially serial numbered and logged. I say this because I guarantee that even though every single commercially produced airgun that shoots that fast will have a serial number on it, whether purchased legally after the 700 fps cap was added via an FFL, brought with you moving here or owned before the cap was implemented, none of those serial numbers was put on by an actual FFL or federally licensed firearm manufacturer and I believe that the same would seemingly be true of at least some black powder firearms on the market.


Beginning 180 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly, unless the party receiving the firearm is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer, it is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number by (1) a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms or (2) a federal firearms manufacturer, federal firearms dealer, or other federal licensee authorized to provide marking services in compliance with the unserialized firearm serialization process under subsection (f) of this Section.
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As would any non serialized .22 caliber manufactured before the GCA 68 law which requires the serial numbers.
Link Posted: 5/3/2022 1:30:03 AM EDT
[#10]
. For models of firearms in which multiple parts provide such housing or structure, the part or parts that the Director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined are a frame or receiver constitute the frame or receiver.

On AR-15 rifles, this part is the lower. The Federal rule shows examples and what part is considered the receiver. On P320/365, it’s the fire control group module, which has the s/n on it.
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