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Posted: 7/1/2022 6:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PNFLDS]
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 7:08:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Wow! They are really screwing us. Big time! Possession in a "sensitive place" is a class E felony, and everything is a "sensitive place". Renewals every 3 years. Requires a live training class. Ammo purchase NICS is back. Etc etc.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 7:34:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Vap0rWav3r] [#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batjka104:
Wow! They are really screwing us. Big time! Possession in a "sensitive place" is a class E felony, and everything is a "sensitive place". Renewals every 3 years. Requires a live training class. Ammo purchase NICS is back. Etc etc.
View Quote
Yep, and a 16-hr safety/proficiency course for renewal. I suck at reading legalese, but I don't see a carve out for active/retired police on that one, I'm sure they'll get one like they did with the safe-act. I also can't tell if you have the take the 16-hr course once, or every time you renew?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:00:20 AM EDT
[#3]
It's going to take days just to get a handle on how bad they're screwing us.

Vehicle safe storage is a very nasty extra.
Apparently I need a rifle sized fireproof safe in my subcompact car.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:10:15 AM EDT
[#4]
It's a draft.  It could get better or worse.  There is an LEO/Retired LEO exemption confirming the two classes of citizen.  The class E felony for carry in sensitive places proves that want us all in the gulag.  I don't think they can default private business as gun free with the option to opt out but there it is.

Comcealed means concealed.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PNFLDS] [#5]
Delete
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:16:26 AM EDT
[#6]
They made private property without a sign 'restricted places'. Still a felony.

I guess that's for severability. Even they may know that's especially likely to get struck.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:39:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Not surprised at the two classes of people AND the felony charge. I called it way before the Bruen ruling was issued. The felony revokes your 2nd Amendment rights and two classes of CCW basically institutes the system we have now with a privileged group of people having more rights than everyone else.

New York really wants to get the Supreme Court to throw licensing and restricted areas out. I hope Thomas is sharpening his pen for the smackdown coming in the future.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:45:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aardvark:
Not surprised at the two classes of people AND the felony charge. I called it way before the Bruen ruling was issued. The felony revokes your 2nd Amendment rights and two classes of CCW basically institutes the system we have now with a privileged group of people having more rights than everyone else.

New York really wants to get the Supreme Court to throw licensing and restricted areas out. I hope Thomas is sharpening his pen for the smackdown coming in the future.
View Quote



I'll be very surprised if this is ever resolved to our benefit in my lifetime. While the Bruen case had me optimistic for a short period, it's become clear that these cases will be a revolving door at the courts. We will wait years, decades even to see the next win. I hope I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 9:05:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: batjka104] [#9]
So this will be codified:

1) To get a license an in-person interview is required. Applicant needs to reveal names of everyone residing with him - spouse, children etc. Applicant needs to submit all his present and passed social media accounts. 4 character references are now a law.

2) Sensitive places - govt buildings, public parks, playgrounds, libraries, zoos, any property of any educational institution, any school or children's program, any place serving alcohol, public transportation, public transportation facilities including stations and airports, entertainment venues, any protests or political gatherings, any place not displaying signs that allow carry, Times Square, places of worship. Penalty - class E felony.

3) Central database of all licenses that will be checked monthly against arrest records, indictments, protection orders etc.

4) Database of all ammunition purchases

5) Storage in a vehicle when not in control of it (parked etc) - weapons must be unloaded and locked in a fire and impact resistant container. Lockable soft cases are not allowed anymore. Penalty - Class A misdemeanor.

6) Background checks on ammunition purchases through the State Police. Another section creates a "background check fund" to finance this.

7) 16-hr class for a pistol permit - required to be completed ONCE. If in possession of a permit already, will need to do the class prior to first renewal.

8) Includes muzzleloaders in a definition of a "rifle" and "shotgun". So background checks, FFL transfers etc for muzzleloaders. No more buying them online.

What a disaster!
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 9:23:22 AM EDT
[#10]
On a good note, looks like NYC is not excluded. So State permits are valid in NYC.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 9:31:55 AM EDT
[#11]
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2022-07/EXTRAORDINARY_SESSION1-CONCEALED_CARRY_IMPROVEMENT_ACT-BILL.pdf
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 9:45:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Was feeling so good after Bruen then I woke up in NY again.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 10:13:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batjka104:
So this will be codified:

1) To get a license an in-person interview is required. Applicant needs to reveal names of everyone residing with him - spouse, children etc. Applicant needs to submit all his present and passed social media accounts. 4 character references are now a law.

2) Sensitive places - govt buildings, public parks, playgrounds, libraries, zoos, any property of any educational institution, any school or children's program, any place serving alcohol, public transportation, public transportation facilities including stations and airports, entertainment venues, any protests or political gatherings, any place not displaying signs that allow carry, Times Square, places of worship. Penalty - class E felony.

3) Central database of all licenses that will be checked monthly against arrest records, indictments, protection orders etc.

4) Database of all ammunition purchases

5) Storage in a vehicle when not in control of it (parked etc) - weapons must be unloaded and locked in a fire and impact resistant container. Lockable soft cases are not allowed anymore. Penalty - Class A misdemeanor.

6) Background checks on ammunition purchases through the State Police. Another section creates a "background check fund" to finance this.

7) 16-hr class for a pistol permit - required to be completed ONCE. If in possession of a permit already, will need to do the class prior to first renewal.

8) Includes muzzleloaders in a definition of a "rifle" and "shotgun". So background checks, FFL transfers etc for muzzleloaders. No more buying them online.

What a disaster!
View Quote


All directly against NYSRPA decision. Sorry NY.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:


All directly against NYSRPA decision. Sorry NY.
View Quote


Yeah. How long will it take to get all of this removed? Years? I am happy we won Bruen, but for the next few years we will be longing for the time when carrying was legal everywhere outside of schools and govt buildings and restrictions were not criminal.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 10:50:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradjk:

I'll be very surprised if this is ever resolved to our benefit in my lifetime. While the Bruen case had me optimistic for a short period, it's become clear that these cases will be a revolving door at the courts. We will wait years, decades even to see the next win. I hope I'm wrong.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradjk:
Originally Posted By Aardvark:
Not surprised at the two classes of people AND the felony charge. I called it way before the Bruen ruling was issued. The felony revokes your 2nd Amendment rights and two classes of CCW basically institutes the system we have now with a privileged group of people having more rights than everyone else.

New York really wants to get the Supreme Court to throw licensing and restricted areas out. I hope Thomas is sharpening his pen for the smackdown coming in the future.

I'll be very surprised if this is ever resolved to our benefit in my lifetime. While the Bruen case had me optimistic for a short period, it's become clear that these cases will be a revolving door at the courts. We will wait years, decades even to see the next win. I hope I'm wrong.
Well... there was another recent blockbuster decision based on the outcome from hammering and hammering until you got the results you wanted. Time is on the anti-2A side to keep pushing. The court will eventually flip back to a progressive majority at which time Bruen, MacDonald and Heller will be ripe for a similar outcome. On that I would put money down in Vegas. Maybe 10 to 20 years.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 11:03:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batjka104:


Yeah. How long will it take to get all of this removed? Years? I am happy we won Bruen, but for the next few years we will be longing for the time when carrying was legal everywhere outside of schools and govt buildings and restrictions were not criminal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batjka104:
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:


All directly against NYSRPA decision. Sorry NY.


Yeah. How long will it take to get all of this removed? Years? I am happy we won Bruen, but for the next few years we will be longing for the time when carrying was legal everywhere outside of schools and govt buildings and restrictions were not criminal.


As much as this is blatantly thrown in the face of NYSRPA vs. Bruen, short of immediate injunctive relief from a lower court, our carry licenses will be virtually worthless at least in the short term.  Coupled with NY's penchant for "everything is a felony" lawmaking, licensed carriers need to tread carefully over this next little while as things shake out.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 11:26:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batjka104:
So this will be codified:

1) To get a license an in-person interview is required. Applicant needs to reveal names of everyone residing with him - spouse, children etc. Applicant needs to submit all his present and passed social media accounts. 4 character references are now a law.

2) Sensitive places - govt buildings, public parks, playgrounds, libraries, zoos, any property of any educational institution, any school or children's program, any place serving alcohol, public transportation, public transportation facilities including stations and airports, entertainment venues, any protests or political gatherings, any place not displaying signs that allow carry, Times Square, places of worship. Penalty - class E felony.

3) Central database of all licenses that will be checked monthly against arrest records, indictments, protection orders etc.

4) Database of all ammunition purchases

5) Storage in a vehicle when not in control of it (parked etc) - weapons must be unloaded and locked in a fire and impact resistant container. Lockable soft cases are not allowed anymore. Penalty - Class A misdemeanor.

6) Background checks on ammunition purchases through the State Police. Another section creates a "background check fund" to finance this.

7) 16-hr class for a pistol permit - required to be completed ONCE. If in possession of a permit already, will need to do the class prior to first renewal.

8) Includes muzzleloaders in a definition of a "rifle" and "shotgun". So background checks, FFL transfers etc for muzzleloaders. No more buying them online.

What a disaster!
View Quote


How is #8 even possible?  How are they going to make the Feds do that for them? They don't do it today.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 11:50:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:


How is #8 even possible?  How are they going to make the Feds do that for them? They don't do it today.
View Quote


NJ already does that.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 11:57:52 AM EDT
[#19]
I've had an unrestricted carry license for 40 years.
I'm ex military and have an NRA Master f-class card.
Now I have to sit and listen to a government dufus teach me about guns to retain my license.

My father's had his license for 60 years. Same requirement.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 12:17:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Sadly we knew this was going to happen. Anything from NYSRPA on this?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 12:19:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thederrick106] [#21]
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 12:28:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Vap0rWav3r] [#22]
So my question is this: this 16hr proficiency course states you need an 80% on the written portion, and to shoot to a demonstrable level that has yet to be determined.

What if someone fails? Do they lose their Unrestricted CCW, and get a premises only permit? Do they come and take all your handguns? Do you get remediated that day and get another attempt?

A lot of this shit is vague, and probably purposefully so.

I'm not worried about myself, but for elderly individuals the standard of proficiency they choose may not be easy to do, especially if they choose the NYS Armed Guard course of fire or something similar with weakhand shooting and shooting from distance under time pressure.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 12:31:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vap0rWav3r:
So my question is this: this 16hr proficiency course states you need an 80% on the written portion, and to shoot to a demonstrable level that has yet to be determined.

What if someone fails? Do they lose their Unrestricted CCW, and get a premises only permit? Do they come and take all your handguns? Do you get remediated that day and get another attempt?

A lot of this shit is vague, and probably purposefully so.

I'm not worried about myself, but for elderly individuals the standard of proficiency they choose may not be easy to do, especially if they choose the NYS Armed Guard course of fire or something similar with weakhand shooting and shooting from distance under time pressure.
View Quote


Exactly... How many grandpas out there with pistol permits and just keep them in their house.  Are local LEO or NYSP going to be tasked with confiscating permits and pistols once none of them take a 16 hour course?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 12:55:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vap0rWav3r:
So my question is this: this 16hr proficiency course states you need an 80% on the written portion, and to shoot to a demonstrable level that has yet to be determined.

What if someone fails? Do they lose their Unrestricted CCW, and get a premises only permit? Do they come and take all your handguns? Do you get remediated that day and get another attempt?

A lot of this shit is vague, and probably purposefully so.

I'm not worried about myself, but for elderly individuals the standard of proficiency they choose may not be easy to do, especially if they choose the NYS Armed Guard course of fire or something similar with weakhand shooting and shooting from distance under time pressure.
View Quote


If you don't complete the requirement you no longer have a right to legally possess a handgun in NY.
There is no difference between possession license and carry(which means almost nothing because you can't carry in any places)
No idea of the timescale one would have to transfer the guns.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is no buffer at all.
Either complete the requirement before expiration or you're immediately a criminal.
My plan is to leave before my next renewal.
Otherwise it would probably be a real good idea to schedule the training months before expiration.

I was wondering how hard the shooting test may be if one takes it with a snubnose or pocket pistol.
I've watched one guy with an LCP fail to hit a full size silo at 5 yards repeatedly

I saw something about three trials on the written then you have to take the classroom instruction again.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:03:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vap0rWav3r:
Yep, and a 16-hr safety/proficiency course for renewal. I suck at reading legalese, but I don't see a carve out for active/retired police on that one, I'm sure they'll get one like they did with the safe-act. I also can't tell if you have the take the 16-hr course once, or every time you renew?
View Quote

I'd guess that active officers range qualification will cover that requirement
For the retired officers the annual HR218 qual will most likely meet the same requirement
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:06:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradjk:



I'll be very surprised if this is ever resolved to our benefit in my lifetime. While the Bruen case had me optimistic for a short period, it's become clear that these cases will be a revolving door at the courts. We will wait years, decades even to see the next win. I hope I'm wrong.
View Quote

I'm thinking that by the time this gets through the courts SCOTUS will have swing left again and they're just bidding their time figuring that the current conservative majority is a flash in the pan
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:11:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kzin:


If you don't complete the requirement you no longer have a right to legally possess a handgun in NY.
There is no difference between possession license and carry(which means almost nothing because you can't carry in any places)
No idea of the timescale one would have to transfer the guns.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is no buffer at all.
Either complete the requirement before expiration or you're immediately a criminal.
My plan is to leave before my next renewal.
Otherwise it would probably be a real good idea to schedule the training months before expiration.

I was wondering how hard the shooting test may be if one takes it with a snubnose or pocket pistol.
I've watched one guy with an LCP fail to hit a full size silo at 5 yards repeatedly

I saw something about three trials on the written then you have to take the classroom instruction again.
View Quote

I watched a dude bring a Glock 29 to an armed guard certification course, It was all he had, he could not control it and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Fortunately the instructor had a spare S&W Sigma 9mm in his vehicle, told him he could use it if he paid him back for ammo, guy agreed. Guy passed with flying colors using the Sigma, instructor told him to sell the Glock and buy a Ruger P85/P89/P95 or something similar.

That instructor could have just as easily been like "Tough shit, you didn't pass... try again next time!" I thought that instructor was really cool for doing that.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:12:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Just to be clear, the 16-hr course needs to be taken only once. Not at every renewal.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:19:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Was feeling so good after Bruen then I woke up in NY again.
View Quote


As an upstater with an unrestricted license I had a selfish feeling that bruen could only make things worse for me.

I never imagined joke-ul would throw this much of a temper tantrum, though.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:24:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kzin:


As an upstater with an unrestricted license I had a selfish feeling that bruen could only make things worse for me.

I never imagined joke-ul would throw this much of a temper tantrum, though.
View Quote

Same and agree.  This is ludicrous.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:30:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 1:39:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#32]
Yeah guys this is a net loss in the short term like we all expected due to revenge laws.

But this decision will lead to lots of laws getting tossed eventually. SAFE, mag laws, and soon these new carry laws.

It's going to be a net win I'd say within 1-2 years tops.

And I'm never an optimist.

Link Posted: 7/1/2022 2:00:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Yeah guys this is a net loss in the short term like we all expected due to revenge laws.

But this decision will lead to lots of laws getting tossed eventually. SAFE, mag laws, and soon these new carry laws.

It's going to be a net win I'd say within 1-2 years tops.

And I'm never an optimist.

View Quote
I really hope you're correct.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 2:17:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 2:21:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Yeah guys this is a net loss in the short term like we all expected due to revenge laws.

But this decision will lead to lots of laws getting tossed eventually. SAFE, mag laws, and soon these new carry laws.

It's going to be a net win I'd say within 1-2 years tops.

And I'm never an optimist.

View Quote
I agree to the extent that the current SCOTUS majority remains in place long enough to keep Heller, MacDonald and Bruen as current law. One to two years is doable IMHO but with the retirement of Stevens, Thomas and Alito are now the oldest Justices at 74 and 72 respectively. Odds are the next vacancy be a Conservative. Not a slam dunk obviously but the actuarial tables point that way.

At the moment, there are four GVR'd cases from the Supreme Court. That gets the ball rolling pretty quickly over MSR's, standard capacity magazines and open carry. This licensing nonsense might be able to get fast-tracked being such an obvious temper tantrum.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 2:45:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

I think it's safe to say that the papers have already been drafted and are ready to file.  Hopefully they choose a forum with a guarantee/high likelihood of getting a favorable judge.
View Quote


BushBoar do you think Skretny in the Western District of New York??? Or a state court?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 2:45:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vap0rWav3r:
I really hope you're correct.
View Quote


As long as someone keeps up the lawsuits.  If your not a member of NYSRPA or @nd AMmendment foundation etc, start!

NY sucks, that is why I moved out of it.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 3:20:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Vap0rWav3r] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cherenkov:


As long as someone keeps up the lawsuits.  If your not a member of NYSRPA or @nd AMmendment foundation etc, start!

NY sucks, that is why I moved out of it.
View Quote
Just joined both SAF, and NYSRPA.

Unfortunately I have shared custody, so I have to remain behind enemy lines in order to be more than just a "summer Dad". But yeah I agree, NY sucks.(The politics, and taxes anyway)
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 3:28:01 PM EDT
[#39]
375k permit holders in NYS, how the fuck are you going to get them all through a 16-hour class and TWO HOURS OF MONITORED RANGE TIME three years from now?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Hochuls doing a press conference right now...

https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/1542954501639913472
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 4:00:44 PM EDT
[#41]
The parts that cover training:

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 5:11:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BenC:
Hochuls doing a press conference right now...

https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/1542954501639913472
View Quote
The sign language interpreter is like "WTF"?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 5:52:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:

Same and agree.  This is ludicrous.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Originally Posted By kzin:


As an upstater with an unrestricted license I had a selfish feeling that bruen could only make things worse for me.

I never imagined joke-ul would throw this much of a temper tantrum, though.

Same and agree.  This is ludicrous.


Add me to that list  
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 7:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nyrkba] [#44]
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:07:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M-Aurelius] [#45]
This bill was clearly written by anti-Second Amendment groups. Large parts of it are  prima facie unconstitutional including many of the "public spaces" bans, extraordinary licensing requirements including the 16 hours of  training and aspects such as social media examination. This is clearly, and directly in material violation of the Bruen ruling.  The court directly mentioned using public spaces in this type of manner which represents a de facto ban, and instituting extraordinary requirements, especially beyond the current shall issue states.

I look forward to an expedited review of NY states violation of the Bruen decision.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:12:19 PM EDT
[#46]
New CCW restrictions just passed 91-51 in the Assembly and 43-20 in the Senate.  Queen bitch cunt Hochul will sign tonight or tomorrow.  Effective Sept 1st, carrying in a restaurant that serves alcohol?  E-felony.  Church?  E-felony.  Public park?  E-felony.  Nursing home?  E-felony.  Business that doesn't explicitly allow guns on premises?  E-felony.

 
Fuck that cunt.  Fuck this state.

Let's hope this gets smacked down immediately with a preliminary injunction.  Huge overreach by the NY democrats in flagrant violation of Heller, McDonald and NYSRPA.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:52:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Honestly, I haven't been this depressed over a piece of legislation since SAFE passed 9 and a half years ago.

One step forward, 10 steps back.  

The complete powerlessness we have over our own future is deeply disturbing.  

And, as always customary with unjust laws, they name it in complete contradiction to what it really is.  Just to rub into in our faces.  "Improvement " my fucking ass.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:56:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Was this one big bill, or were there multiple that were passed?
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 8:56:48 PM EDT
[#49]
The real irony is that NY after years of ridicule and being told to move to a free state has the case that is likely to end AWB and mag restrictions and we are the ones punished until this gets knocked down.
Link Posted: 7/1/2022 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#50]
@Hiramranger

You said you had conversations with Nolo this morning. Please recap some of it here. We need a boost to morale here. All I see is darkness.
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