User Panel
Posted: 3/6/2021 12:03:07 AM EDT
Just in case you weren’t aware-Let’s hammer the reps and get this bill passed.
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[#2]
I haven't heard anything about this at all. Can you elaborate a bit, maybe give a link to the bill?
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[#3]
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB0018&ga=112
Gov. Bill Lee has a similar bill he sponsored himself, however it's a little different, and only removes the penalties for carrying a weapon. HB0018 Is the true constitutional carry bill to rally behind. |
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[#4]
Heard on the Radio yesterday that Gov Lee's bill is the one that is most likely to pass.
Only covers handguns. No open carry of loaded long guns still. Probably doesn't address gun free zones either. Sounds like another half measure of disappointment |
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[#5]
Quoted: Heard on the Radio yesterday that Gov Lee's bill is the one that is most likely to pass. Only covers handguns. No open carry of loaded long guns still. Probably doesn't address gun free zones either. Sounds like another half measure of disappointment View Quote Typical squishy-headed, linguini-spine'd, half-assed TN Republican governor stuff, Chris. We've seen it over and over for a long time here. |
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[#6]
Quoted: Typical squishy-headed, linguini-spine'd, half-assed TN Republican governor stuff, Chris. We've seen it over and over for a long time here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Heard on the Radio yesterday that Gov Lee's bill is the one that is most likely to pass. Only covers handguns. No open carry of loaded long guns still. Probably doesn't address gun free zones either. Sounds like another half measure of disappointment Typical squishy-headed, linguini-spine'd, half-assed TN Republican governor stuff, Chris. We've seen it over and over for a long time here. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that the NRA sent out an email encouraging people to contact their legislators and voice support for the governor's bill. |
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[#7]
According to this email from TFA Governor's bill did pass.
https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=A1LCN&mc=Jg&s=pn0Fad&u=izZc&z=EEI6sj& Also according to TFA this bill only covers people of 21 or older, and only covers what state defines as handguns. This definition is provided at the below source. According to all of this it looks like the MK18 style pistol AR or Draco 10 1/2" AK's with pistol braces added are still within the confines of this law. https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2019/title-39/chapter-11/part-1/section-39-11-106/ (18) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand; If you have conflicting info please share. |
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[#8]
Quoted: According to this email from TFA Governor's bill did pass. https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=A1LCN&mc=Jg&s=pn0Fad&u=izZc&z=EEI6sj& Also according to TFA this bill only covers people of 21 or older, and only covers what state defines as handguns. This definition is provided at the below source. According to all of this it looks like the MK18 style pistol AR or Draco 10 1/2" AK's with pistol braces added are still within the confines of this law. https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2019/title-39/chapter-11/part-1/section-39-11-106/ (18) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand; If you have conflicting info please share. View Quote Passed in the Senate, but still has to go to a floor vote in the House. ETA: Part of the email that the NRA sent out: "Earlier today, the Tennessee Senate passed important Constitutional Carry legislation, Senate Bill 765. Despite a swath of misinformation and disingenuous attack ads against pro-gun legislators from gun control organizations and out-of-state fundraising groups, our right to self-defense has taken a big step towards becoming law. The measure’s companion bill, House Bill 786, will be considered in the House Finance Committee on Tuesday, March 23. Please contact committee members and ask them to SUPPORT House Bill 786." Later on in the email it claims that anti-gun groups have allied themselves with faux-gun rights groups and have been lying to Tennesseans in order to advance their own agenda. Which reminds me, and I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but I still need to send in my payment for this year's membership to the TFA (and kick in an additional donation, if their website still allows that). ETA2: Yep, website still allows tacking donations on with the renewal payment. |
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[#9]
I was hoping HB0018 would be the bill, oh well. It is something, better than nothing I suppose.
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[#10]
Quoted: I was hoping HB0018 would be the bill, oh well. It is something, better than nothing I suppose. View Quote That has been the pattern with 'carry reform' in TN for quite a while. A bill that takes a smaller incremental step is offered as an alternative, when it starts looking like there is a chance of passing a bill that takes a bigger step in removing restrictions on carry. It's still not a done deal. The governor's bill still has to get out of committee in the House, and it could still be amended (in committee) to cover anyone that can legally possess a firearm, instead of just those who qualify for a carry permit. Would be nice if it was also amended to cover "firearms", instead of just handguns. |
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[#11]
Quoted: That has been the pattern with 'carry reform' in TN for quite a while. A bill that takes a smaller incremental step is offered as an alternative, when it starts looking like there is a chance of passing a bill that takes a bigger step in removing restrictions on carry. It's still not a done deal. The governor's bill still has to get out of committee in the House, and it could still be amended (in committee) [color=#ff0000]to cover anyone that can legally possess a firearm, instead of just those who qualify for a carry permit. Would be nice if it was also amended to cover "firearms", instead of just handguns. View Quote Agree 110%. Just have to wait and see what all they propose |
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[#12]
Looks like the Governor's Bill for Permitless handgun carry (open or concealed) has now passed the state house too and is heading to the Governor to sign. Since this is the bill he was backing, I see no reason why he wouldn't sign it.
Although this isn't true constitutional carry, it is a good step in he right direction I guess. Anyone know any details about a TFA backed amendment to make the bill more like constitutional carry but failed due to some error in the amendment? |
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[#13]
The TFA was asking that the bill be amended to include:
- allow any individual who can legally possess a firearm to carry that firearm - eliminate the 'handgun only' restriction - eliminate the "right to be" provision - eliminate any provision that imposes any infringement greater than what is found in current federal or state law regarding firearms ownership or possession - eliminate gun free zones for those who carry legally without a permit just as if the person held an enhanced permit (e.g., in public parks, on greenways, etc.,) There was apparently some concern, in recent days, that the dems would use the bill being open to amendments on the House floor to either use procedural shenanigans to table the bill, or add a poison pill amendment (though they would need something over 20 republicans to go along with that, for it to work). Also seems to have been some concern over whether or not the bill would lose support from some republicans, if the bill was amended more toward a true Constitutional carry bill. I haven't heard what actually ended up happening when the bill went to the floor, so I don't know how much those concerns turned out to be valid. ETA: The NRA's email about the bill passing in the House, continues to use their vague accusation about "faux-gun rights organizations" spreading misinformation about the bill. Victory declared over a 'well, at least this is a step in the right direction' bill. |
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[#14]
So without a permit what happens if you are in other states that require a permit to carry?
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[#15]
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[#16]
If I've followed correctly,
- there is no change in the existing permits (though the newer 'online class' permit seems to have lost it's reason for existing) - the bill only allows people who are eligible to get a TN carry permit, to carry (state resident, 21 or over, no disqualifiers on their record) - only applies to handguns (still have to leave all other firearms at home or in the vehicle) - various places where past improvements in the carry laws gradually allowed permit holders (of the older permit) to carry (public parks, greenways, etc) are still legally 'gun-free zones' to anyone that doesn't have the older permit |
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[#17]
Quoted: So without a permit what happens if you are in other states that require a permit to carry? View Quote This does not eliminate the current carry permit in Tennessee. If you wish to continue enjoying the reciprocity afforded to TN carry permit holders you will need to continue using a TN carry permit. All this law really does is do away with the requirement for a carry permit in Tennessee for open or concealed carry of a handgun by anyone in the state that is not prohibited from possessing a handgun. Sure would like to see it applied to long guns too. Not that I am advocating for people to go around carrying ARs everywhere all the time, but we should have the option to do so if we feel the desire to. Also need to make carrying in a place with no guns signs posted not a crime in Tennessee. Should only be subject to trespass laws if one refuses to leave at the request of the property owner or business manager. |
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[#18]
Quoted: All this law really does is do away with the requirement for a carry permit in Tennessee for open or concealed carry of a handgun by anyone in the state that is not prohibited from possessing a handgun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: All this law really does is do away with the requirement for a carry permit in Tennessee for open or concealed carry of a handgun by anyone in the state that is not prohibited from possessing a handgun. Did they get it amended to expand it that much? Last I heard, it was still only for those who didn't have any disqualifiers (under 21, DUI record, etc) for a carry permit. ETA: This is the short summary shown on the state website, though it may not have been updated to show any amendments: AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 14, Part 1; Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13 and Title 40, Chapter 35, relative to firearms. Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, creates an exception to the offense of unlawful carrying of a firearm, if a person meets the qualifications for an enhanced handgun carry permit, lawfully possesses a handgun, and is in a place that the person has a right to be; revises other firearm statutes. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 14, Part 1; Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13 and Title 40, Chapter 35. As I recall, "meets the qualifications for an enhanced handgun carry permit" means 21 and up, valid TN driver's license, no DUIs in the last 5 years, no more than one DUI in the last 10 years, and no issues that would cause you to fail the federal background check on a handgun purchase at a store. The "place a person has a right to be" wording, opens up the possibility of catching an unlawful carrying of a firearm charge, if a store manager calls the cops and claims you are trespassing. Not a guarantee, but I wouldn't want to be the test case on that. ETA2: Longer version of the text, from the state website: Click To View Spoiler This bill creates an exception to the offense of unlawful carrying of a firearm, if a person meets the qualifications for an enhanced handgun carry permit, lawfully possesses a handgun, and is in a place that the person has a right to be; and revises other firearm statutes, all as discussed below. Under present law, it is an offense for a person who carries, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club. This bill adds an exception to the application of this offense that a person is carrying, whether openly or concealed, a handgun and: (1) The person meets the qualifications for the issuance of an enhanced handgun carry permit; (2) The person lawfully possesses the handgun; and (3) The person is in a place where the person has a right to be. Under present law, the holder of a valid enhanced handgun carry permit or concealed handgun carry permit recognized in this state may, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder's motor vehicle while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if: (A) The permit holder's motor vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be; and (B) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the motor vehicle: is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in the motor vehicle; or is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box, or interior of the person's motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to such motor vehicle if the permit holder is not in the motor vehicle. This bill extends the applicability of the above provisions to a person who lawfully carries a handgun pursuant to the provisions of this bill described above in (1)-(3). The present law provisions governing enhanced handgun carry permits provide that the permit holder must have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and must display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer. This bill revises this provision to instead provide that the permit holder must have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun in a location or manner that would be prohibited if not for the person's status as an enhanced handgun carry permit holder and must display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer under such circumstances. Similarly, the present law provisions governing concealed handgun carry permits provide that a person issued a concealed handgun carry permit must carry the permit at all times when carrying a handgun pursuant to this section and must display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer. This bill revises this provision to instead provide that the permit holder must have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun in a location or manner that would be prohibited if not for the person's status as a concealed handgun carry permit holder and must display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer under such circumstances. Under present law, theft of property or services is a Class A misdemeanor if the value of the property or services obtained is $1,000 or less. This bill enhances the penalty for the theft of a firearm so that it will be a Class E felony if the property obtained is a firearm worth less than $2,500. For firearms valued at $2,500 or more, the present law penalty provisions will apply. Also, under present law, theft of a firearm is punished by confinement for not less than 30 days in addition to any other penalty authorized by law. This bill increases the maximum period of confinement from 30 to 180 days. Present law requires a court to consider certain enhancement factors when sentencing a person. This bill adds as an enhancement factor the fact that the offense for which the person is being sentenced involved the theft of a firearm from a motor vehicle. This bill provides that for the offenses listed below committed on or after July 1, 2021, there will be no release eligibility until the person has served 85 percent of the sentence imposed by the court, less sentence credits earned and retained. However, no sentence reduction credits may operate to reduce below 70 percent the percentage of sentence imposed by the court such person must serve before becoming release eligible. The offenses to which this provision applies are: (1) Unlawful possession of a firearm by a person convicted of a felony crime of violence, an attempt to commit a felony crime of violence, or a felony involving use of a deadly weapon; (2) Unlawful possession of a firearm by a person convicted of a felony drug offense; (3) Unlawful possession of a handgun by a person convicted of a felony; and (4) Unlawfully providing a handgun to a juvenile or permitting a juvenile to possess a handgun. ON MARCH 18, 2021, THE SENATE ADOPTED AMENDMENT #1, AND PASSED SENATE BILL 765, AS AMENDED. AMENDMENT #1 revises this bill's exception to the offense of carrying, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club. Under this bill, it will be an exception to such offense that a person is carrying, whether openly or concealed, a handgun ,and: (1) The person is at least 21 years of age, or is at least 18 years of age and has been honorably discharged from military service or is on active duty and has completed basic training; (2) The person lawfully possesses the handgun; and (3) The person is in a place where the person is lawfully present. This amendment creates a new offense whereby it will be a Class B misdemeanor offense for a person who meets any of the following criteria to carry a firearm with the intent to go armed: (1) Has been convicted of stalking; (2) Has been convicted of DUI two or more times within the prior 10 years, or one time within the prior five years; (3) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective, judicially committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution, or had a court appoint a conservator for the person by reason of a mental defect; or (D) Is otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm by federal law as it existed on January 1, 2021. Stalking conviction is also a disqualifier. |
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[#19]
Quoted: Also need to make carrying in a place with no guns signs posted not a crime in Tennessee. Should only be subject to trespass laws if one refuses to leave at the request of the property owner or business manager. View Quote Absolutely. Look for the anti-carry people to push businesses to post their property. After carry in bars with a permit became legal, that’s what happened in Nashville. Oddly, during the NRA meeting there a few years ago, several bars covered those signs with “NRA members welcome” signs. |
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[#20]
So this law goes into effect 7/1? Waiting on my enhanced permit currently and it’s been a long week. Still have a few more to go
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[#21]
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[#22]
I think we're just waiting for Lee to sign the bill and I haven't seen or heard anything where he has signed yet. I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment, while it seems that the bill could be tweaked to some degree, it's mostly good and a positive step in the right direction for Tenneseeans to excercise their rights without a gov permission slip.
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[#23]
Quoted: I think we're just waiting for Lee to sign the bill and I haven't seen or heard anything where he has signed yet. I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment, while it seems that the bill could be tweaked to some degree, it's mostly good and a positive step in the right direction for Tenneseeans to excercise their rights without a gov permission slip. View Quote Section 13 of the bill states that it will take effect on July 1st. https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/HB0786.pdf https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/SB0765.pdf What's the usual lag between a bill being passed by the legislature and the governor signing it? Since this is Gov Lee's bill, it would seem likely that he wouldn't delay signing it. |
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[#24]
Quoted: Yep, July 1st. If you don't have your carry permit by then, there is something seriously wrong. View Quote Im pretty boring so I assume it should get approved in a few weeks. The guy doing my finger prints said its gonna take a 3+ weeks so I have been checking it online so I hope by months end. |
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[#25]
Quoted: Section 13 of the bill states that it will take effect on July 1st. https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/HB0786.pdf https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/SB0765.pdf What's the usual lag between a bill being passed by the legislature and the governor signing it? Since this is Gov Lee's bill, it would seem likely that he wouldn't delay signing it. View Quote I have no idea what the lag time is between bills, but yeah, I'd think he'd sign that shit pronto. |
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[#26]
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[#27]
Apparently after reading both of those bills I'm not smart enough to understand WTF they actually do. Still too much talk about permit holders further down but I guess after it's changed to persons at the top that applies to the lines further down as well? I would not make a good lawyer.
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[#28]
Quoted: Apparently after reading both of those bills I'm not smart enough to understand WTF they actually do. Still too much talk about permit holders further down but I guess after it's changed to persons at the top that applies to the lines further down as well? I would not make a good lawyer. View Quote To have a shot at understanding what gun control bills do, you have to find one of the online law libraries that lets you search for the text of the existing law (TCA 39-17-1307, for example), read the law as it currently stands, then mentally make the edits spelled out in the bill, to see how it changes. If you recall some years ago when the NRA was making a fuss over some bill that would require gun owners to declare each of their handguns on their next tax return and pay a one time tax of $50 for each gun (which the NRA was claiming was a backdoor registration attempt), the bill had one line buried in it that added "handgun" to the line in the federal tax codes that spell out what types of guns are regulated under the 1934 NFA. It wasn't an attempt at "backdoor registration". It was an attempt at actual registration under the NFA (with everything that comes with it), but the NFA was never mentioned in the bill or it's summary. Every single line of a bill has the potential to make a drastic change in the law. |
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[#29]
Looks like the bill was transmitted from the Senate to the Governor's office on Tuesday.
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[#30]
Governor signed it today.
https://www.wate.com/news/tennessee/gov-lee-signs-permitless-constitutional-carry-into-law/ |
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[#31]
Has the Tennessean run any articles predicting 'blood in the streets' for tomorrow (even though it doesn't take effect until July)?
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[#33]
Yeah, this is pretty cool.
Honestly, it doesn’t change much for me personally. I’m going to keep up my permit for travel and the like. I wish real constitutional carry would have passed, and the “No-gun zone” offense went away and just turned into trespassing if you won’t leave. But hey, it pissed off the anti-freedom crowd, and that’s good enough for me. And the law is definitely a step in the proper direction. |
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[#34]
Quoted: He can simply sit and let July 1 without signing and it goes into law without the possible political backlash if he had signed it. Stupid political games. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I have no idea what the lag time is between bills, but yeah, I'd think he'd sign that shit pronto. He can simply sit and let July 1 without signing and it goes into law without the possible political backlash if he had signed it. Stupid political games. I didn't know that was a procedure, but yes, stupid games abound. I'm just glad he signed it finally. Maybe next year we can add some language to it making it a True Constitutional carry bill. |
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[#35]
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