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Posted: 1/11/2020 1:30:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2020 11:12:22 PM EDT
[#1]
What does "with exceptions" mean?
Link Posted: 1/12/2020 1:49:36 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What does "with exceptions" mean?
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Usuallu carve outside for govt employees.

I need to know, why should I support HB2202?
Link Posted: 1/12/2020 11:38:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 1/12/2020 7:39:55 PM EDT
[#4]
I hit up all the sponsors for the AWB and mag ban weeks ago. Zero replies.
Link Posted: 1/12/2020 10:37:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I hit up all the sponsors for the AWB and mag ban weeks ago. Zero replies.
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Don't expect one, at least not till after the session ends. That is usually when I get a fluffy reply saying that my input is valuable and the bill in discussion already... blaw blaw blaw.

Don't let this discourage you, be the squeaky wheel. If they see 100 emails saying oppose they will get the message before having to read and reply to all of them... or realizing I sent almost one a day.
Link Posted: 1/13/2020 11:09:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/13/2020 2:21:43 PM EDT
[#7]
@TNC
Thanks for the writeup and explanation. Ive been reading the proposed laws and have a few questions but Im afraid to post them here. Im sure law writers have staff that read the gun forums for the intel we inadvertently provide from our analysis of their bullshit.

And you're 100% correct, its a numbers game, directly related to population growth in city centers.
Link Posted: 1/14/2020 9:00:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm going to show you how to find the answers yourself. It's not simple, but it's not impossible. It requires reading. I'll lay this out at a basic level. But, yeah, they like to put in LEO carve outs to help curry favor. In recent years they've been omitting that. At this point they have sufficient power that they simply don't care, and broadly the same folks who want gun control are the ones who dislike law enforcement.

This is intended as a guide, not just for @Boom_Stick, but for anyone reading the thread. Hell, we might come up with some reference materials to engage the legislature and ideas to help inform the shooting community at large. Keep in mind, a lot of gun owners don't engage in any forums, social media, or even have email.

First, I searched the OP for "exceptions" to try and divine the intent of your question. On a desktop running chrome, ctrl-f, then type in the text you're looking for.

That yielded three bills that I believe you refer to:

HB2240
HB2241
SB6076
SB6078

With the bill numbers in hand we can find the text and the bill history at the WA legislature website. Bookmark this, it has valuable information for engaging in the process.

The main entry point: http://leg.wa.gov/

Clicking bill information to the left takes you here: https://app.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/

Next type in the number of the bill you're interested in. Using the first example, I type in 2240 and it brings me to the bill information page.

Looks like the sponsors are: Valdez, Peterson, Senn, Doglio, Macri, Robinson, Walen, Thai, Kilduff, Stonier, Frame, Bergquist, Cody, Pellicciotti

The little scoreboard shows its progress. It has been prefiled. Soon it will have various committee hearings, at the whim of the committee chairs.

Look toward the bottom. See the heading Available Documents? Click Original Bill and read it for yourself. This is not easy, it's written by lying politicians for lawyers. Better yet, print a copy and start annotating with questions and observations. I have a copy of 1639 that we worked with during the whole campaign.  You can also search the text of the bill using ctrl-f. I searched for "except" and "exception" and found no entries.

Now that you're familiar with the bill, see the links to the right? Go ahead and sign up for email notifications for the bill. You can also comment on the bill. Commenting, emailing and calling are our most potent tools. If people will use them. We have a true grassroots movement with large numbers behind it. But we have to assert ourselves. This is a numbers game. The other side has a relatively small astroturf following. Do it. Get your friends and family to do it. Get your gun club, local shop, and hunting buddies to do it. Must be present to win.

If the bill goes up to a public hearing, the TVW video link will be posted at the bottom. There you can watch the lies told by the Alliance and our elected officials to suppress our civil rights.

I hope this helps. If we can get some folk actively engaged, let's start up a thread to discuss each bill. In years past, discussing them among my friends has yielded insights, and we've discovered some nasty surprises (like the larger implications of the 1639 medical waiver, relating to veterans), which help us inform the shooting community.
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@TNC

Thanks for putting this together.  The more we can educate each other and make the fight more accessible the better.  I have some thoughts, but I need to get ready for work.

Again:  thanks for putting this out there!
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 2:54:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Copy of a letter I just sent to Senator/Reps.

It specifically addresses HB2240 and HB2241 as I did not know about HB2519, HB1374or HB1315 at the time I wrote it. Looks like I have to write another one.



Digger440
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com

To:

Senator Kevin Van De Wege
24th Legislative District
212 John A. Cherberg Building
PO Box 40424
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786 – 7646

Representative Mike Chapman
Deputy Majority Whip
24th Legislative District
132B Legislative Building
PO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786 - 7916

Representative Steve Tharinger
24th Legislative District
314 John L. O'Brien Building
PO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786 - 7904

Dear Senator Van De Wege, Representative Chapman and Representative Tharinger,:

I have been involved in law enforcement since 2008 and I have been assigned as a detective working major crimes since 2013. Part of my duties include assisting other law enforcement agencies on the Olympic Peninsula with homicide and other major incidents. My career has made it so that I am no stranger to the effects of violence on our communities and the state as a whole. However, even with the front row seat view of the numerous tragedies I have been a witness to, I am writing you to ask that you voice vehement opposition to pre-filed House Bill 2240 and its companion Senate Bill 6077 in addition to pre-filed House Bill 2241 and its companion Senate Bill 6076.

These bills will place the responsibility of violence squarely upon the shoulders of law-abiding citizens by criminalizing their presently lawful actions. They also place a burden on law enforcement in the form of new felony crimes to investigate without any increase in funding or staffing. One example of both was when the legislature passed Substitute House Bill 1501 which mandated the information of all those denied a firearm purchase be forwarded to the Washington Association of Sherriff and Police Chiefs (WASPC) who then distributes the information to the law enforcement agency where the transaction took place for further investigation.
In my agency, I am the investigator responsible for these cases and of the scores of individuals I have investigated I have only referred three for prosecution. Of those three, one was dismissed due to lack of evidence (if the person knew they were under indictment for a crime), one plead guilty, and one is still waiting to be charged. While closing the loop on ineligible persons acquiring firearms through a legal channel is important, what it actually shows is that more law-abiding people are being denied a right than there are criminals trying to buy firearms through lawful channels. This is further supported by a Bureau of Justice Statistics study that showed 90% of criminals do not obtain firearms through lawful retail sources. (Alper & Glaze, 2019)

In looking at firearm facilitated homicide in Clallam county since 2017 there has not been a single case that these pre-filed bills would have prevented or helped to prosecute. The triple murder in December 2018 of Darrell C. Iverson, Jordan D. Iverson, and Tiffany A. May was committed by three suspects who were already ineligible to possess a firearm due to previous felony convictions. The December 2019 murder of Tristen L. J. Pisani was committed by a 17-year-old male who was not eligible to possess a handgun due to being under 21 years of age. You have to go back to January of 2017 to the murder of Clint L. Darrow to find a suspect that was eligible to possess a firearm. In the case of Clint Darrow, again neither of these bills would have prevented his killing as Mr. Darrow was killed with a handgun. Additionally, the now convicted Shay C. Darrow was failed by the Washington State mental health system numerous times and intervention in that regard could have prevented this tragedy where these pre-filed bills would have not been applicable.

In looking beyond Clallam County to the state level, what these bills attempt to address is a crime problem that does not exist. Law enforcement agencies in Washington State report many different statistics to the FBI through the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS). The FBI uses the data in their yearly Uniform Crime Report (UCR) in addition to publishing conglomerated state level data sets. Washington State NIBRS data for 2018 (2019 is not yet available) shows that the firearms these bills would ban only account for 86 crimes out of 20,590 violent offenses or 0.42% (FBI, 2019). What the data does not show is how many of that 0.42% were already ineligible to possess firearms.
Pre-filed House Bill 2240 and its companion Senate Bill 6077 in addition to pre-filed House Bill 2241 and its companion Senate Bill 6076 will not create the outcome its authors, sponsors, and those who vote for them think. In 1994 a national assault weapons ban was passed and it expired in 2004. In the 16 years since its sunset there have been many studies, both publicly and privately funded, which show that homicide rates are not affected by bans of certain classification of firearms. (Guis, 2013) Also, laws aimed at firearm trafficking, improving child safety in regard to firearms (aka “Secure Storage”), or the banning of firearms classified as “assault weapons” were not associated with changes to firearm homicide rates. (Lee, Fleegler, & Farrell, 2017)

In closing it is my sincere hope that you will work with your legislative colleagues, regardless of political affiliation, in voicing opposition to these bills in committee and voting a resounding no if they make it to the floor. It would also be my hope that you would instead create legislation that would respect the rights of law-abiding citizens and focus on recidivist criminals, mental illness and rampant drug abuse that are the actual threats to our communities.
Washington’s moribund and broken mental health system and recidivist offenders are a far bigger threat to our communities than any one type of firearm. Finding and implementing solutions that are both psychologically and criminologically sound for the treatment and/or incapacitation of offenders and mentally ill is the only way this will be possible.

References:

Alper, M., & Glaze, L. (2019). Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016. Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016 (pp. 1–20). U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics. Retrieved from https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

F.B.I. (2019). Federal Bureau of Investigation Crime Data Explorer Washington. Retrieved January 1, 2020, from: https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/explorer/state/washington/crime.

Guis, M. (2014). An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates. Applied Economics Letters , 21(4), 265–267. doi: 10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

Lee LK, Fleegler EW, Farrell C, et al. Firearm Laws and Firearm Homicides: A Systematic Review. JAMA Intern Med. 2017;177(1):106–119. doi:https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2016.7051

Sincerely,
Digger440

Post Script:  Those who have signed below fully support the message and intent behind this letter. All of those who have signed are full-time, commissioned, law enforcement officers and voters in the 24th district.

_____________________
xxxxxxx, Sergeant

_____________________
xxxxxxx, Sergeant

____________________
xxxxxxxx, Sergeant

____________________
xxxxxxxx, Sergeant

____________________
xxxxxxxxx, Officer

____________________
xxxxxxxxxx, Officer

____________________
xxxxxxxxxx, Officer

_____________________
xxxxxxxxxx, Detective

_____________________
xxxxxxxxxxx, Officer

_____________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Officer

_____________________
xxxxxxxxxxxx, K-9 Officer

_____________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Officer
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 2:44:26 PM EDT
[#10]
That's great I love the numerous signatures, thank you
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