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Posted: 3/1/2019 5:34:22 PM EDT
My local FFL did all the paperwork for me, gave me what I needed to give as notification to CLEO, all prepared to send with adress to the attorney generals office as they are listed as being acceptable as a notifying agency. He also mentioned I’ll probably get it back with a letter stating they don’t accept these and it must be the local police chief or sheriff, which is why he included a copy of “who may qualify as a certifying official on an atf form 1 or atf form 4 for the making or transfer of an NFA firearm” with the portion of state attorneys general highlighted (see first pic for copy of this)
Well I did receive it back today with the letter (see 2nd pic below) . So do, or should I still have to give it to my local police chief, or does it suffice that the attorneys generals office is listed even though letter says they are not authorized in making determinations on this?? Hope my wall of text isn’t to confusing.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/1/2019 5:47:06 PM EDT
[#1]
It is a notification, not a request. It sounds like the AG's office is confused. There's a number there, call him. Educate him.
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Posted: 3/1/2019 5:49:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't know why you wouldn't have just given it to the chief of police in the first place... |
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Posted: 3/1/2019 5:51:42 PM EDT
[#3]
What he gave you from the ATF clearly states that the AG has been accepted in specific situations, and spells out in the first sentences who should be handling this. Your FFL needs to get his shit together.
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Posted: 3/1/2019 5:53:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a notification, not a request. It sounds like the AG's office is confused. There's a number there, call him. Educate him. |
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Posted: 3/1/2019 6:00:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What he gave you from the ATF clearly states that the AG has been accepted in specific situations, and spells out in the first sentences who should be handling this. Your FFL needs to get his shit together. As to your first reply, this is my first time doing this so being that I’m not all that familiar with the whole process and ffl did say expect to get it back with a letter which is also why he highlighted them as being acceptable, I figured since they’ve done this before and haven’t seemingly had an issue what’s the worry. Now I’m just making sure. No need to get all upset about what I did or didn’t do in the first place. |
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Posted: 3/2/2019 12:23:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Just playing the devil’s advocate here, but doesn’t the law simply state that you’re supposed to ‘notify’ the CLEO? It looks to me like you’ve notified the MN AG that you are acquiring an NFA item. They didn’t acknowledge the notification, but what has been seen cannot be unseen.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. All my NFA items were acquired when I lived in GA long ago, and the rules have changed a bit since I’ve done it last. |
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Posted: 3/2/2019 12:32:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s the part that had me kinda wondering. But it is a notification now and they are still listed so?? As to your first reply, this is my first time doing this so being that I’m not all that familiar with the whole process and ffl did say expect to get it back with a letter which is also why he highlighted them as being acceptable, I figured since they’ve done this before and haven’t seemingly had an issue what’s the worry. Now I’m just making sure. No need to get all upset about what I did or didn’t do in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What he gave you from the ATF clearly states that the AG has been accepted in specific situations, and spells out in the first sentences who should be handling this. Your FFL needs to get his shit together. As to your first reply, this is my first time doing this so being that I’m not all that familiar with the whole process and ffl did say expect to get it back with a letter which is also why he highlighted them as being acceptable, I figured since they’ve done this before and haven’t seemingly had an issue what’s the worry. Now I’m just making sure. No need to get all upset about what I did or didn’t do in the first place. This is the first I've heard of any FFL doing this; it's absolutely not normal practice for Form 4s and is accomplishing nothing beyond, at best, creating confusion. At worst, this guy has done God knows how many transfers that don't stand up to ATF requirements, and for what? If you want to play the technicality game with the ATF, do it with your own business on the line -- not your customers. That's the only thing I'm anything resembling "upset" about. My initial comment was intended to say nothing beyond questioning why he advised you to do this instead of what everyone else does. *shrug* Not an NFAB employee. |
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Posted: 3/2/2019 12:40:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a notification, not a request. It sounds like the AG's office is confused. There's a number there, call him. Educate him. Frankly, it's probably worth a call to NFA. |
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Posted: 3/2/2019 1:04:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a notification, not a request. It sounds like the AG's office is confused. There's a number there, call him. Educate him. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 12:05:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your FFL is making this needlessly complicated for people who either don't know or don't care to learn the ins and outside of doing themselves. Much like everything with the ATF, no one seemingly has issues until they have lots of issues, and this is an FFL issue that they're having the kindness to (potentially) pass on to their customers. This is the first I've heard of any FFL doing this; it's absolutely not normal practice for Form 4s and is accomplishing nothing beyond, at best, creating confusion. At worst, this guy has done God knows how many transfers that don't stand up to ATF requirements, and for what? If you want to play the technicality game with the ATF, do it with your own business on the line -- not your customers. That's the only thing I'm anything resembling "upset" about. My initial comment was intended to say nothing beyond questioning why he advised you to do this instead of what everyone else does. *shrug* Not an NFAB employee.  .
I have no problem sending another copy to my local chief, I assume I will have to make some changes on the forms I will hand to them then, correct? |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 12:10:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No need to call anyone, he's already complied with the law by sending the notification. Whether or not the AG's office accepts the notice or not is completely immaterial. I'd like to be able to know for sure so that if in fact this is not correct I can let my FFl know, so that they don't get their peepee slapped, it's a good FFL up here so I'd hate to see them get into trouble for this. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 1:53:21 PM EDT
[#12]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/chief-law-enforcement-officer-required-sign-law-enforcement-certification-atf-form-1-or
Quote HistoryThe chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. Quote HistoryThe chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. Quoted:Are you positive on this? Since it does say in specific situation's on the first pic posted on who qualify's etc.
I'd like to be able to know for sure so that if in fact this is not correct I can let my FFl know, so that they don't get their peepee slapped, it's a good FFL up here so I'd hate to see them get into trouble for this. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 2:36:46 PM EDT
[#13]
I had to call NFA branch this morning anyway, and asked about this. The person I deal with didn't have an answer, but I'm waiting to hear back from the guy she asked.
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Posted: 3/4/2019 2:38:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The person notified is also not required to respond to or even to accept the notification after 41F. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 3:17:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to call NFA branch this morning anyway, and asked about this. The person I deal with didn't have an answer, but I'm waiting to hear back from the guy she asked. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 3:48:20 PM EDT
[#16]
The simplest way to do this....
If you call 911 who shows up to answer the LE needs? Local Police? Then send it to them. Just like if your want a permit to purchase permit. Sheriff's Office? Even though you live in say Chanhassen (Carver County SO contracts police service) it would be the Sheriff's office then. Any one sending to other places is wasting their time and the agency to which you send it too. DUMB! I think that language is left over from when there were alternatives to getting a Form 1 or Form 4 signed off when the law did require local sign off. |
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Posted: 3/4/2019 3:55:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that language is left over from when there were alternatives to getting a Form 1 or Form 4 signed off when the law did require local sign off. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 8:31:50 AM EDT
[#18]
The Q&A hasn't changed because the list hasn't changed. Anyone on that list is acceptable as the CLEO. You have notified one of them and your work is done.
When I did a form 4 through Silencer Shop they sent it to the head of the Department of Public Safety. Since there is no requirement to prove you sent it and no requirement for any agency to maintain them it's a pointless rule. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 8:37:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to call NFA branch this morning anyway, and asked about this. The person I deal with didn't have an answer, but I'm waiting to hear back from the guy she asked. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 9:58:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's not in writing the answer you get is meaningless. The biggest issue with the whole NFA game is that every person in the agency has their own idea of what it all means. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had to call NFA branch this morning anyway, and asked about this. The person I deal with didn't have an answer, but I'm waiting to hear back from the guy she asked. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 2:49:31 PM EDT
[#21]
You may find this info helpful, @kmcale.
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Posted: 3/5/2019 2:54:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You may find this info helpful, @kmcale. This post cleared up some things for me. Thank you to everyone who has chimed in on this, very useful information here! Even a larger plus that the OP is from MN member 
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Posted: 3/5/2019 4:10:49 PM EDT
[#23]
In the "old" days people had to circumvent the CLEO signature if the COP wouldn't sign off, then Sheriff, States Attorney, etc.
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Posted: 3/5/2019 5:32:28 PM EDT
[#24]
I forgot we had the General NFA questions section in armory, went searching over there and found a couple threads similar to this thread, some of them stated that they have sent it to their respective state's AG, also I saw a couple people say that going through silencer shop, silencer shop had sent it to that state's AG as well.
I am now satisfied with having the AG notified, any further Form 4's I do will also be sent to the AG for notification purposes, especially since ours is a POS in so many way's. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 6:16:58 PM EDT
[#25]
As stated above, when I did a form 4 through Silencer Shop they sent it to the head of the Department of Public Safety in St. Paul.
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