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Posted: 7/4/2022 7:02:28 PM EDT
I read the bill but am not completely sure if  I'm reading it right lol. It says that if you are already a pistol permit holder then you take the safety course at your first renewal. Is that in 3 years or after one year of the effective date.

Also do we have to do all of the other stuff at the renewal like interview, give up social media, etc. Basically have to reapply for the permit if that is the case, or is this only for new applications?
Link Posted: 7/4/2022 7:57:36 PM EDT
[#1]
All I know is

FUKH
Link Posted: 7/4/2022 8:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kzin] [#2]
If you've had a license for at least 3 years you have until next sep 1 2023 to train and renew

No on all the other crap.

Doesn't make any difference if your license is unrestricted or heavily restricted.

Doesn't matter if you ever carry concealed.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 10:43:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kzin:
If you've had a license for at least 3 years you have until next sep 1 2023 to train and renew

No on all the other crap.

Doesn't make any difference if your license is unrestricted or heavily restricted.

Doesn't matter if you ever carry concealed.
View Quote
Yeah that's how it read to me just wasn't fully sure. I hate reading penal law stuff and they always make it as confusing as possible it seems.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 12:19:24 PM EDT
[#4]
How TF are they going to handle 375k people who all need to take a 16-hour class and 2 hours at the range for mandatory training in three years' time?
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 12:40:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tyranid:
How TF are they going to handle 375k people who all need to take a 16-hour class and 2 hours at the range for mandatory training in three years' time?
View Quote


They can't, they know they can't & they don't care!
Now lets hope right now that Justice Thomas just told Justice Alito, Hold my beer & watch this!
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 1:00:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: widerstehe] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tyranid:
How TF are they going to handle 375k people who all need to take a 16-hour class and 2 hours at the range for mandatory training in three years' time?
View Quote


I'd be willing to bet the 16 hour class ends up as an online course.  I further predict they will end up capitulating on the live fire training for anyone who already has a license and only require it for new licensees.

Regardless, if you own a legit gun range you stand to make a lot of money.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 1:09:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By widerstehe:


I'd be willing to bet the 16 hour class ends up as an online course.  I further predict they will end up capitulating on the live fire training for anyone who already has a license and only require it for new licensees.

Regardless, if you own a legit gun range you stand to make a lot of money.
View Quote



The other problem with live fire is there is no place to do that in many cities without significant travel and expense.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:07:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#8]
I never understood how the state can write something into law that 100% depends on private businesses to implement.

What if there are no gun ranges in my county? Or the only one is private and doesn't want to do public classes?

I just can't get a permit?
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I have had a permit since I turned 21, so I am coming up on 33 years. Now you freedom seeking people from your crappy areas in NYS have put a burden on me, but I am ok with it.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:34:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tc556guy] [#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By widerstehe:


I'd be willing to bet the 16 hour class ends up as an online course.  I further predict they will end up capitulating on the live fire training for anyone who already has a license and only require it for new licensees.

Regardless, if you own a legit gun range you stand to make a lot of money.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Originally Posted By tyranid:
How TF are they going to handle 375k people who all need to take a 16-hour class and 2 hours at the range for mandatory training in three years' time?


I'd be willing to bet the 16 hour class ends up as an online course.  I further predict they will end up capitulating on the live fire training for anyone who already has a license and only require it for new licensees.

Regardless, if you own a legit gun range you stand to make a lot of money.

Active law enforcement will most likely get a pass, since we qualify with firearms anyway
I bet they do a carve out for the retired HR218 guys
They may even cave on people who are currently in the Guard or active duty who can produce some sort of qualification record.
Anything to get the numbers of people needing to cough up a training record down to more manageable numbers

Originally Posted By CTM1:
I have had a permit since I turned 21, so I am coming up on 33 years. Now you freedom seeking people from your crappy areas in NYS have put a burden on me, but I am ok with it.


I got my permit in 1988 and it was restricted until just  a few years ago when I got the current judge to remove the overstamp.
The original judge met with me when I asked for a meeting to appeal the restrictions and he declared that Ithaca wasnt the wild west and  noone needed to carry a gun on the street
Unfortunately his opinion remains very prevalent amongst liberals.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:38:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
I have had a permit since I turned 21, so I am coming up on 33 years. Now you freedom seeking people from your crappy areas in NYS have put a burden on me, but I am ok with it.
View Quote


43 years of unrestricted permit for me and I was perfectly okay with not being able to carry in NYC as I detest going there anyway.  The end result is a net loss of freedom for me personally as my carry permit has been totally neutered at the risk of a felony charge and loss of my firearms freedom.  I have to get the hell out of this insane asylum!
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:49:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Active law enforcement will most likely get a pass, since we qualify with firearms anyway
I bet they do a carve out for the retired HR218 guys
They may even cave on people who are currently in the Guard or active duty who can produce some sort of qualification record.
Anything to get the numbers of people needing to cough up a training record down to more manageable numbers
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Originally Posted By tyranid:
How TF are they going to handle 375k people who all need to take a 16-hour class and 2 hours at the range for mandatory training in three years' time?


I'd be willing to bet the 16 hour class ends up as an online course.  I further predict they will end up capitulating on the live fire training for anyone who already has a license and only require it for new licensees.

Regardless, if you own a legit gun range you stand to make a lot of money.

Active law enforcement will most likely get a pass, since we qualify with firearms anyway
I bet they do a carve out for the retired HR218 guys
They may even cave on people who are currently in the Guard or active duty who can produce some sort of qualification record.
Anything to get the numbers of people needing to cough up a training record down to more manageable numbers


Some of my non-resident permits required live fire. I have produced numerous qualification certificates to other states. Wonder if I still have them in the event they allow that.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:03:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I have had an unrestricted permit since I was 19.  Yes you read that right 19.  I couldn't legally own a pistol but I got one with my Dad's gun on it.  I have had it for 38 years.  To say this nonsense pisses me off is an understatement.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:25:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thederrick106] [#14]
I recertified mine in 2021 and am going to do it again in August to get a fresh date so hopefully have more time to take the class that doesn't exist yet.

I might be wrong but I read it as you have to have the class prior to your next recertification date which is now every three years.

I don't mind training but 16 hours of class room seems like a bit much.

& this all so I can keep my pistols locked in my safe at home because carrying them anywhere where will pretty much be a class E felony.  

Not hunting and carrying on state land and in the Adirondack Park?  = class E felony.

Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:27:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:



The other problem with live fire is there is no place to do that in many cities without significant travel and expense.
View Quote



Feature, not a bug
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:36:54 PM EDT
[#16]
For licenses issued prior to the effective
date of this paragraph that were issued more than three years prior to
such date, or will expire in less than one year from such date shall be
recertified or renewed within one year of such date.
View Quote


Mine expires this winter so I guess I get an extension and renewing would change nothing.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:37:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Meathook:
The other problem with live fire is there is no place to do that in many cities without significant travel and expense.
View Quote


This is a racist law!

Inner cities IE:NYC have very few places (Three ranges, in five Boros of over eight million people, if I recall correctly) to take a live fire class.

But, then again, all firearm laws were meant to keep guns away from minorities!

They are succeeding in alienating a large class of people again.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 3:51:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
I have had an unrestricted permit since I was 19.  Yes you read that right 19.  I couldn't legally own a pistol but I got one with my Dad's gun on it.  I have had it for 38 years.  To say this nonsense pisses me off is an understatement.
View Quote


You could legally "own" a handgun at 19 but you could not legally purchase one from a dealer.  I also received my permit at 19 and my first handgun was a NYPD Model 10 .38 Special gifted me by my Dad.  He picked it up off one of his cops that was retiring and didn't want his duty revolver anymore for the princely sum of $25.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 4:17:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Practice civil disobedience. Don't recertify. Are they going to arrest 500,000 people? Not happening.

For the people applying now hopefully this will be thrown out quickly.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 4:31:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99] [#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Crash1433:
Practice civil disobedience. Don't recertify. Are they going to arrest 500,000 people? Not happening.

For the people applying now hopefully this will be thrown out quickly.
View Quote


I mean there is zero possiblity they figure out this training BS before the bulk of our permits need to be recertified this winter.

I assume most of us have to recertify this winter, as that's 10 years since the recert law was passed in 2013 (and we all recertified once already in the winter of 2017).

But I guess many of us have still Sept of 2023 to get training and recertify?

I guarantee they don't figure anything out before then...and here's to hoping it gets tossed as being too onerous anyway.

16 hours and live fire tests? Carrying and shooting a handgun isn't rocket science, and state mandated training does nothing anyway.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 4:52:58 PM EDT
[#21]
This so-called law is a mess and so is the process. One might believe that's done intentionally.

People are trying to legitimately follow the law, and being penalized for doing so. There seems to be little guidance for current holders (of any type of permit including the now unconstitutional "sportsman" or premises permits). It "appears" existing holders of any permit will have to only take the 16 hours training and 2 live fire (if that stands). But most of the counties are still figuring this out. My guess is there will be emerging interpretations by county. Whenever that comes.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 5:14:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:

16 hours and live fire tests? Carrying and shooting a handgun isn't rocket science, and state mandated training does nothing anyway.
View Quote

There seem to be a lot of people who haven't figured out how to do it well on their own.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 5:28:07 PM EDT
[#23]
I don't believe it's overly unreasonable to require a safety course. To a degree, even the live fire section. Many of the NRA courses combine classroom instruction and live fire training (BTW imagine the irony of NY using the NRA courses as approved content, you know probably the most prolific firearms safety courses, but I digress).

However the 16/2 is simply meant as an obstacle. Both the time commitment and in some cases the expense. Perhaps even the availability of ranges. This is where "reasonableness" departs and is trampled by people's personal biases.

That's before we get to the unconstitutional "sensitive places" subversion along with trying to make legal gun owners felons.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M-Aurelius:
I don't believe it's overly unreasonable to require a safety course. To a degree, even the live fire section. Many of the NRA courses combine classroom instruction and live fire training (BTW imagine the irony of NY using the NRA courses as approved content, you know probably the most prolific firearms safety courses, but I digress).

However the 16/2 is simply meant as an obstacle. Both the time commitment and in some cases the expense. Perhaps even the availability of ranges. This is where "reasonableness" departs and is trampled by people's personal biases.

That's before we get to the unconstitutional "sensitive places" subversion along with trying to make legal gun owners felons.
View Quote


+1 and while 16 hours of classroom is a bit excessive, I don't disagree with a good half day course including handling and firing a real handgun.  There are many who get a permit that don't know how to use it and seek zero training.

I can imagine it will be difficult for a non-experienced gun owner trying to qualify with a snub nose or LCP.

If and when I have to take the class, I will be qualifying with my Ruger standard 22LR, the most accurate handgun I own.

I am sure it will soon be found that there is no possible way even with training programs and ranges running every day of the week for the next year that they will be able to train and qualify every NYS pistol permit holder.  Many issuing authorities can't even keep up with new applications how the hell are they going to get this figured out...  Time will tell...

Link Posted: 7/5/2022 6:11:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M-Aurelius:
I don't believe it's overly unreasonable to require a safety course. To a degree, even the live fire section. Many of the NRA courses combine classroom instruction and live fire training (BTW imagine the irony of NY using the NRA courses as approved content, you know probably the most prolific firearms safety courses, but I digress).

However the 16/2 is simply meant as an obstacle. Both the time commitment and in some cases the expense. Perhaps even the availability of ranges. This is where "reasonableness" departs and is trampled by people's personal biases.

That's before we get to the unconstitutional "sensitive places" subversion along with trying to make legal gun owners felons.
View Quote


Is it reasonable to require a course to vote?  Is it reasonable to require a course to exercise free speech?  

They are all obstacles to exercising your rights freely.  

What about the 80 or 90 year old woman who has a pistol permit to protect her home how is she going to do 16 hours and pass a live fire test?  
If there are no ranges nearby you are screwed.
If the tests and training are too expensive you are screwed.

Link Posted: 7/5/2022 6:15:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thederrick106:


+1 and while 16 hours of classroom is a bit excessive, I don't disagree with a good half day course including handling and firing a real handgun.  There are many who get a permit that don't know how to use it and seek zero training.

I can imagine it will be difficult for a non-experienced gun owner trying to qualify with a snub nose or LCP.

If and when I have to take the class, I will be qualifying with my Ruger standard 22LR, the most accurate handgun I own.

I am sure it will soon be found that there is no possible way even with training programs and ranges running every day of the week for the next year that they will be able to train and qualify every NYS pistol permit holder.  Many issuing authorities can't even keep up with new applications how the hell are they going to get this figured out...  Time will tell...

View Quote


I was planning to have my wife use the Barretta 92 but now that you mention it the Ruger MK1 or MK2 would be a way better choice the MK1 is a stinking tack driver and the MK2 is no slouch.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 7:02:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:


Is it reasonable to require a course to vote?  Is it reasonable to require a course to exercise free speech?  

They are all obstacles to exercising your rights freely.  

What about the 80 or 90 year old woman who has a pistol permit to protect her home how is she going to do 16 hours and pass a live fire test?  
If there are no ranges nearby you are screwed.
If the tests and training are too expensive you are screwed.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Originally Posted By M-Aurelius:
I don't believe it's overly unreasonable to require a safety course. To a degree, even the live fire section. Many of the NRA courses combine classroom instruction and live fire training (BTW imagine the irony of NY using the NRA courses as approved content, you know probably the most prolific firearms safety courses, but I digress).

However the 16/2 is simply meant as an obstacle. Both the time commitment and in some cases the expense. Perhaps even the availability of ranges. This is where "reasonableness" departs and is trampled by people's personal biases.

That's before we get to the unconstitutional "sensitive places" subversion along with trying to make legal gun owners felons.


Is it reasonable to require a course to vote?  Is it reasonable to require a course to exercise free speech?  

They are all obstacles to exercising your rights freely.  

What about the 80 or 90 year old woman who has a pistol permit to protect her home how is she going to do 16 hours and pass a live fire test?  
If there are no ranges nearby you are screwed.
If the tests and training are too expensive you are screwed.



It's going to be a tough road for sure.  Think about how many of us have elderly relatives who possess pistol permits.  No way all of them are going to be willing to go sit through a 16-hour class.  Be an interesting day if they start revoking permits for it and confiscating pistols.  Judges and all involved will have a tough road to travel if they start signing those court orders.  Hopefully we don't stay the current trajectory the left has pointed us on.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 7:13:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:


I was planning to have my wife use the Barretta 92 but now that you mention it the Ruger MK1 or MK2 would be a way better choice the MK1 is a stinking tack driver and the MK2 is no slouch.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Originally Posted By thederrick106:


+1 and while 16 hours of classroom is a bit excessive, I don't disagree with a good half day course including handling and firing a real handgun.  There are many who get a permit that don't know how to use it and seek zero training.

I can imagine it will be difficult for a non-experienced gun owner trying to qualify with a snub nose or LCP.

If and when I have to take the class, I will be qualifying with my Ruger standard 22LR, the most accurate handgun I own.

I am sure it will soon be found that there is no possible way even with training programs and ranges running every day of the week for the next year that they will be able to train and qualify every NYS pistol permit holder.  Many issuing authorities can't even keep up with new applications how the hell are they going to get this figured out...  Time will tell...



I was planning to have my wife use the Barretta 92 but now that you mention it the Ruger MK1 or MK2 would be a way better choice the MK1 is a stinking tack driver and the MK2 is no slouch.


MK1 all the way!  I can accurately punch paper out well beyond average handgun range with my old girl.  I have zero care in the world to bring or prove myself with anything else be it safe handling or accuracy.

If you don't have one for your Rugers I recommend a fobus paddle holster.  Simple, basic, effective.

Anyone who is halfway decent with a handgun should be able to drive tacks with a Ruger MK1/2/3/4 with very little practice.  There is no comparison vs any of my other regular handguns.  I am sure there are other target or small game 22LR handguns that offer similar results I just don't have any experience with them.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 7:18:59 PM EDT
[#29]
I just have to add/ express that I still can't get over how disheartening this all is to us northern folks...  Another sad part is there are so many pistol permit holders in northern NY that don't follow gun politics and have NO idea what is coming down the pipe.

I need to focus on something else for a while.  

I would take hunting/target restrictions back over all this BS any day.

Taking a pistol almost anywhere now makes you an insta Felon.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 7:28:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:


Is it reasonable to require a course to vote?  Is it reasonable to require a course to exercise free speech?  

They are all obstacles to exercising your rights freely.  

What about the 80 or 90 year old woman who has a pistol permit to protect her home how is she going to do 16 hours and pass a live fire test?  
If there are no ranges nearby you are screwed.
If the tests and training are too expensive you are screwed.

View Quote


I do not necessarily disagree with your argument. "Constitutional Carry", is becoming more prevalent. However SCOTUS has noted that some reasonable requirements are permissible. What they are, we'll need a few more cases to discover. To be clear, that's not what happened here. The NY legislature and governor have ignored the very clear direction in the ruling.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:08:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thederrick106:

There are many who get a permit that don't know how to use it
View Quote



There are many more who get a vote and don't know how to use it. When is their training?
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:18:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Mandatory training is bullshit.

Sorry I can't agree with those that think it's a good idea.

If you are planning on storming hostile buildings daily? Yeah maybe get some training.

But to stop the common criminal encounter? Draw point and shoot. It's not that hard people. Even for the elderly.

Pretty sure plenty of people did just fine the past few hundred years without mandatory training.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:32:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Mandatory training is bullshit.

Sorry I can't agree with those that think it's a good idea.

If you are planning on storming hostile buildings daily? Yeah maybe get some training.

But to stop the common criminal encounter? Draw point and shoot. It's not that hard people. Even for the elderly.

Pretty sure plenty of people did just fine the past few hundred years without mandatory training.
View Quote



Everyone should get training.

Mandatory training is bullshit
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:36:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zero6:



There are many more who get a vote and don't know how to use it. When is their training?
View Quote


Don't disagree.  I grew up in a household with guns, started hunting at age 14 so I was exposed to them early on.  I guess what I am trying to say is there is a portion of our younger population that have zero exposure to guns and zero experience handling them.

Other than parental guidance, hunter education, and an apple seed shoot I have had no other formal training.

With all that said 16 hours for a basic course is very excessive IMHO.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:44:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thederrick106] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thederrick106:


Don't disagree.  I grew up in a household with guns, started hunting at age 14 so I was exposed to them early on.  I guess what I am trying to say is there is a portion of our younger population that have zero exposure to guns and zero experience handling them.

Other than parental guidance, hunter education, and an apple seed shoot I have had no other formal training.

With all that said 16 hours for a basic course is very excessive IMHO.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thederrick106:
Originally Posted By Zero6:



There are many more who get a vote and don't know how to use it. When is their training?


Don't disagree.  I grew up in a household with guns, started hunting at age 14 so I was exposed to them early on.  I guess what I am trying to say is there is a portion of our younger population that have zero exposure to guns and zero experience handling them.

Other than parental guidance, hunter education, and an apple seed shoot I have had no other formal training.

With all that said 16 hours for a basic course is very excessive IMHO.


Regardless, training, sensitive places, all this bullshit is just an attack on law abiding citizens.  Last time I checked NY pistol permit holders are not the ones committing gun crimes, shooting up grocery stores, parades, or neighborhoods.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:44:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Meathook] [#36]
Florida counted my Hunter Safety training for my Florida permit training requirement.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 8:46:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thederrick106] [#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Florida counted my Hunter Safety training for my Florida permit.
View Quote


AZ accepted mine as well.
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 5:02:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Castillo:



Everyone should get training.

Mandatory training is bullshit
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Mandatory training is bullshit.

Sorry I can't agree with those that think it's a good idea.

If you are planning on storming hostile buildings daily? Yeah maybe get some training.

But to stop the common criminal encounter? Draw point and shoot. It's not that hard people. Even for the elderly.

Pretty sure plenty of people did just fine the past few hundred years without mandatory training.



Everyone should get training.

Mandatory training is bullshit

I was a little surprised in a recent thread at just how few posters had had any sort of formal firearms classes.
I would like to think that on a firearms board where the members presumably take their guns seriously there'd be more participation in formal instruction.
The only thing that benefits untrained gun owners is that in 99% of self defense uses of a gun, no rounds are fired. Untrained people simply don't know what they don't know. I suspect that many of them assume that in a moment of need they'll magically rise to the occasion,but what happens is that people's responses often sink to the level of their unpreparedness
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 6:20:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thederrick106:


Don't disagree.  I grew up in a household with guns, started hunting at age 14 so I was exposed to them early on.  I guess what I am trying to say is there is a portion of our younger population that have zero exposure to guns and zero experience handling them.

Other than parental guidance, hunter education, and an apple seed shoot I have had no other formal training.

With all that said 16 hours for a basic course is very excessive IMHO.
View Quote


16 hrs isn't excessive, it's barely enough.

Peace officers in NY get a week
Police officers in NY get 2 weeks
and THAT isn't enough
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 6:26:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Voluntary training is good.

Mandatory training is intended to have a chilling effect on the exercise of a constitutional right and should not be accepted.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou attitudes.
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 7:08:19 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Voluntary training is good.

Mandatory training is intended to have a chilling effect on the exercise of a constitutional right and should not be accepted.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou attitudes.
View Quote



This^
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 7:26:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:



This^
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Meathook:
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Voluntary training is good.

Mandatory training is intended to have a chilling effect on the exercise of a constitutional right and should not be accepted.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou attitudes.



This^



Definitely this.

Police are mandated for qualification too… and you don’t need to look very far to see they are every bit as bad as the basic, minimally qualified civilian with a weapon. There seems to be an accident report almost daily with the uniformed types which points to poor performance.

Link Posted: 7/6/2022 7:49:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Voluntary training is good.

Mandatory training is intended to have a chilling effect on the exercise of a constitutional right and should not be accepted.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou attitudes.
View Quote


Agreed
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 8:03:22 AM EDT
[#44]
So if you already had an unrestricted permit and took a class with live fire to get it, such as the NY approved all-day class with Rochester Personal Defense, you now need to go through a second class with live fire?

I'm not sure what the procedure was for unrestricted carry in other counties, but in Broome we were already required to take such a course. I wonder if it will count towards the new infringement, err I mean requirement.
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 9:09:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalWatermelon:
So if you already had an unrestricted permit and took a class with live fire to get it, such as the NY approved all-day class with Rochester Personal Defense, you now need to go through a second class with live fire?

I'm not sure what the procedure was for unrestricted carry in other counties, but in Broome we were already required to take such a course. I wonder if it will count towards the new infringement, err I mean requirement.
View Quote

No live fire requirements in Tompkins
Some of my people from Cortland county tell me they initially get a restricted permit and can take a class to get the overstamp removed. Tompkins has refused to issue unrestricted permit since the mid 80swgen a CCW protected himself against muggers
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 9:39:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 9:59:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Voluntary training is good.

Mandatory training is intended to have a chilling effect on the exercise of a constitutional right and should not be accepted.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou attitudes.
View Quote


Yup.
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 10:02:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalWatermelon:
So if you already had an unrestricted permit and took a class with live fire to get it, such as the NY approved all-day class with Rochester Personal Defense, you now need to go through a second class with live fire?

I'm not sure what the procedure was for unrestricted carry in other counties, but in Broome we were already required to take such a course. I wonder if it will count towards the new infringement, err I mean requirement.
View Quote


I would imagine you would at least have to take the written part of the course if not the whole thing. There was a list somewhere of the curriculum outline and it involves a bunch of things, including the new law, that probably weren’t covered in your county-required course.
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 11:25:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Maybe I’m still on cloud 9 from Bruen, but i think (hope) the courts will smack this new set of laws hard
Link Posted: 7/6/2022 12:23:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Maybe I’m still on cloud 9 from Bruen, but i think (hope) the courts will smack this new set of laws hard
View Quote


Wish I had your optimism.

What's stopping the state from continuing to ignore SCOTUS and do as they please?
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