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Posted: 5/11/2021 7:45:08 AM EDT
Can anybody help me out on a question my boss had.

Can a felon legally ride in a vehicle in which a loaded handgun is located in an unlocked center console? Say the felon rides in the front passenger seat for example.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 8:00:26 AM EDT
This is just off memory, i could be wrong but i'm fairly certain as long as he's not left alone in the car with it then it's legal.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 8:03:27 AM EDT
Generally speaking, felons are still allowed to associate with or be around someone who owns a gun. However, things can get tricky if the gun is around or if the person lives with them. There are some instances where a convicted felon may be found guilty of “constructive possession” of a firearm. This can happen if:

The convicted felon knew that the firearm was in the home or residence, and
The felon had the ability to maintain control of the gun.
In some cases, a felon can be guilty of constructive possession without ever even handling the gun. This can also happen in situations where the firearm is in a truck or car (for instance, if they borrowed a car knowing that it contained a gun, or they were riding in a car that had a gun).

Note that some laws make distinctions between a felon possessing a gun and a felon owning a gun. This can change the outcome of their criminal liability in these situations.



This is copied from https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/felon-in-possession-of-a-weapon-laws.html#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20felons%20are%20stil­l,someone%20who%20owns%20a%20gun.&text=There%20are%20some%20instances%20where,the%20­home%20or%20residence%2C%20and
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 9:34:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2021 9:36:00 AM EDT by pevrs114]
Constructive possession requires a few things: Knowledge of presence and character, and the ability to establish dominion and control.

If the felon is aware that the pistol is present, and is aware that it is indeed a firearm, and can access it and control it, he could be convicted.

A case exactly on point for this issue in Virginia is Smallwood v. Commonwealth, 278 Va. 625 (Virginia 2009).

From the headnotes, a summary:

"Driver who was aware of the presence
and character of a .38 revolver that was
in plain view on open console in small
vehicle between driver's and passenger's seats
and was right next to driver's right leg
“constructively possessed” revolver, although
passenger testified that gun and car were her's;
driver had dominion and control over firearm,
was in car for six or seven hours, could
have had actual, exclusive possession of the
revolver in an instant, had unrestricted access
to it, and passenger's ownership of it was not
dispositive."
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 10:59:12 AM EDT
This is based off a company vehicle in which a 4 man crew rides from job site to job site daily. The driver is a concealed permit holder, and keeps his g19 in the console. Everybody knows it's there, but nobody fucks with it or even opens the center other than the driver because of felon status.

Weve never had any issues in which the law was called, and when we were pulled over as a courtesy let the officer know that a firearm is loaded in the vehicle. Conversation never went passed that
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 11:21:24 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
This is based off a company vehicle in which a 4 man crew rides from job site to job site daily. The driver is a concealed permit holder, and keeps his g19 in the console. Everybody knows it's there, but nobody fucks with it or even opens the center other than the driver because of felon status.

Weve never had any issues in which the law was called, and when we were pulled over as a courtesy let the officer know that a firearm is loaded in the vehicle. Conversation never went passed that
View Quote



Based off what pevrs114 posted that would still be illegal. Just have the drive wear it in a holster and you are good to go.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 4:02:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2021 4:02:56 PM EDT by pevrs114]
If you live where I think you live, I am very familiar with the prosecutors in your county and every surrounding county. You are not in a gun-friendly area of the state anymore. There are a number of liberal head prosecutors in your area now, and I would not trust them at all not to go all out for a conviction.

The case law would make it VERY hard to beat a charge like that.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 4:14:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pevrs114:
If you live where I think you live, I am very familiar with the prosecutors in your county and every surrounding county. You are not in a gun-friendly area of the state anymore. There are a number of liberal head prosecutors in your area now, and I would not trust them at all not to go all out for a conviction.

The case law would make it VERY hard to beat a charge like that.
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You are correct on the locale, and thanks for letting me know
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 4:33:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
You are correct on the locale, and thanks for letting me know
View Quote


I thought of something.

The judges in that circuit have been VERY good about restoring gun rights to those who apply. The same liberal prosecutors I just mentioned actually DON'T fight against those often.

So if the person lives in the same circuit as you (message me for the list of the surrounding counties), the person may have a high chance of getting his gun rights restored.

I can name a number of very qualified local attorneys, and I know John Pierce will go pretty much statewide on that issue.
Link Posted: 5/11/2021 6:06:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pevrs114:


I thought of something.

The judges in that circuit have been VERY good about restoring gun rights to those who apply. The same liberal prosecutors I just mentioned actually DON'T fight against those often.

So if the person lives in the same circuit as you (message me for the list of the surrounding counties), the person may have a high chance of getting his gun rights restored.

I can name a number of very qualified local attorneys, and I know John Pierce will go pretty much statewide on that issue.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pevrs114:
Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
You are correct on the locale, and thanks for letting me know


I thought of something.

The judges in that circuit have been VERY good about restoring gun rights to those who apply. The same liberal prosecutors I just mentioned actually DON'T fight against those often.

So if the person lives in the same circuit as you (message me for the list of the surrounding counties), the person may have a high chance of getting his gun rights restored.

I can name a number of very qualified local attorneys, and I know John Pierce will go pretty much statewide on that issue.
Is there a minimum timeframe after being released to try to petition for rights? We have 8 felons with our company, all but one are for drugs or dui.
Link Posted: 5/12/2021 4:44:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2021 4:44:53 PM EDT by pevrs114]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
Is there a minimum timeframe after being released to try to petition for rights? We have 8 felons with our company, all but one are for drugs or dui.
View Quote


No.

Leading up to the 2020 election, Northam granted (non-firearms) rights restorations to people who hadn't even finished their terms of active probation.

While we all can determine the motive there, it illustrates the fact that there is no statutory minimum wait or timeline.

I wonder how many of them I know? I wonder how many of them are "my fault?"
Link Posted: 5/14/2021 4:20:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pevrs114:


No.

Leading up to the 2020 election, Northam granted (non-firearms) rights restorations to people who hadn't even finished their terms of active probation.

While we all can determine the motive there, it illustrates the fact that there is no statutory minimum wait or timeline.

I wonder how many of them I know? I wonder how many of them are "my fault?"
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pevrs114:
Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
Is there a minimum timeframe after being released to try to petition for rights? We have 8 felons with our company, all but one are for drugs or dui.


No.

Leading up to the 2020 election, Northam granted (non-firearms) rights restorations to people who hadn't even finished their terms of active probation.

While we all can determine the motive there, it illustrates the fact that there is no statutory minimum wait or timeline.

I wonder how many of them I know? I wonder how many of them are "my fault?"
All but one are local to LB and went through that court system... they all love that this last Attorney retired at the end of 2020


Link Posted: 5/19/2021 9:15:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2021 9:15:44 AM EDT by pevrs114]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4HShooter:
All but one are local to LB and went through that court system... they all love that this last Attorney retired at the end of 2020


View Quote


I'm sure they do. I'm sure they'll find much better results (for them) than they would had I stayed. PM me the names, if you'd like. I am willing to bet money I've dealt with at least some of them personally.
Link Posted: 5/26/2021 2:39:42 PM EDT
You need to step up to a higher class of friends/passengers.
Or your boss does.
Link Posted: 5/28/2021 11:24:00 AM EDT
Maybe some type of lockbox, probably not good to leave it in the unlocked console if everyone is away from the truck anyhow.
Link Posted: 5/29/2021 9:51:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:
You need to step up to a higher class of friends/passengers.
Or your boss does.
View Quote
Find me 10 hard working heavy equipment operators that can work with little to no hand holding and have experience in pipe work and I'll have them a job on Tuesday starting at 25/hr Thanks
Link Posted: 5/29/2021 9:53:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olivers_AR:
Maybe some type of lockbox, probably not good to leave it in the unlocked console if everyone is away from the truck anyhow.
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Truck is never more than 50 yards away unlocked. But I have went ahead and put it in a locked box under the driver seat until I can come up with a lock for my center console
Link Posted: 6/5/2021 12:20:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2021 12:22:43 AM EDT by dalle0001]
If you are a felon and know that there is a gun somewhere that you can access, it is probably best to stay far away from it, maybe even moving out of the house or changing jobs. It's too risky, in my opinion, since it's less about what you actually "know" but more so how well the prosecution lawyers can articulate some story to the jury.

I also could have swore reading something about having guns to be locked up by the owner if you know there is a felon in the house. I don't know if this was a proposed bill or if it is an actual law. Perhaps someone can correct me on this, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere about how you had to keep the gun locked up if you know there is a felon living in the house. So reality is if you are a felon or know someone who is a felon, best to not have guns around, period.

Someone above mentioned a story about a G19 in a glove box. Suppose one day you're all in a hurry and need to stop by Wawa to grab a quick bite. You say you already ate, so you wait in the car. Police comes over, says your vehicle is parked in a handicap zone and right away notices the G19 in plain view. You say it isn't yours, cop finds out you're a felon, and you're going to be in a world of trouble now because the gun owner is in the store and the police could say that you could have control over the weapon so you're arrested and charged.
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