And it Begins, Florida CCW Permits being Suspended by Ag. Commissioner Nikki Fried.



As I predicted, Florida's. Ag. & Consumer Services Commissioner Nikki Fried (D) vowed to use her officer to enforce gun control in every way possible and I stated that she would do it through her interpretation of the laws and and how she'd abuse the regulations surrounding said laws. She has added some well known anti-gun individuals to her staff. Folks like Fred Guttenberg and Mary Barzee Flores.

A member of Florida's gun owning community that I know, stangboy555 is facing the might of Nikki Fried's bureaucratic terrorism now and he isn't alone sadly.

He received a certified letter from the Agriculture Commissioner's office stating that his concealed weapons permit was indefinitely suspended because he had an injunction (restraining order) filed against him back in 2003. He knows he never had one filed against him and that he's clean as a whistle but still. He called the Nassau's Clerk of Courts' office and they have no records of any injunctions with his name on them. Went to the local Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services' office to explain and see if he could get this resolved.



Instead of listening and looking up the information he provided. They simply confiscated his carry permit and told him that he had to go to the Clerk of Courts' office and get a court certified letter that states that they have no record of any injunctions on him before they'll give it back. Yup, you read that right. A state agency is demanding that a citizen must prove innocence so he can exercise his Constitutional Rights.

Last I checked, we based our system on innocent until proven guilty and the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the individual in question is guilty. But in this case, that isn't the case. They are instead having him prove innocence while they automatically declare him as guilty.

This individual has been a permit holder now for twelve years. He originally applied in 2007 and renewed in 2017. Both times he was approved through the background screening process. He also is a Federal Firearms License holder to boot and passed BATFE's background in 2008.

He called the Clerk of Courts' office and they explained to him that they have no record of any injunction being filed against him. Furthermore, he was has no record or memory of being served and even if he wasn't served but an injunction was filed. There is no record of "return of service" or "return of writ" in their database. Meaning that no injunction was filed against him even if they didn't serve him.

His permit was pulled because of a campaign promise. The last Ag. Commissioner, Adam Putnam had a minor issue where 291 permits out of 1.9 million were issued to people that didn't qualify. Nikke Fried campaigned heavily on going over everyone's record with a fine tooth comb and suspending or revoking them. Never mind the fact that 291 out of 1.9 million is so small of a statistical error that I have a better chance of winning the lotto and getting struck by lightning at the same time. But it was her perfect excuse and she is using it as her reason to push gun control in any way she can from her office.

Anyways, he was able to go to the Clerk of Courts' office on March 4 and get a certified stating that there is no record of such injunction filed against him.



So he has proof in his hands to prove his innocence and he should get his permit back right? He followed their instructions and returned to the local Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services' office. Did they return his permit? No. Instead they told him this.

So he has evidence to prove his innocence, the court where the Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services is claiming his disqualification comes from has no record whatsoever. So where did the Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services get information that he should have his permit suspended and possibly revoked? I'd surely like to know.

He said as he walked out of their office.

With the fact that they're now stating it will take them three to four weeks to verify, especially in this day and age. It is ludicrous that it takes that long. We live in an age with instantaneous communication across the globe and yet the Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services is saying that they'll need three to four weeks? What, can't someone in their office pick up a phone and call the Clerk of Courts' office or even easier; look up the information from the Florida Comprehensive Case Information System? The statewide online court system database that every law enforcement agency, regulatory agency, and court system has access to in Florida? Hell, they can even access the public Clerk of Courts' database straight from Nassau County.

But they aren't. Why? Because a right delayed is a right denied. Nikki Fried is operating off the premise of regulatory stagnation. If she can turn a once smoothly driven machine into a bureaucratic nightmare by making people jump through so many hoops. She can through regulation enforce gun control while staying perfectly clear under the color of the law. Expect more of this and worse to happen.

Will the NRA or Florida Carry run with this?

Likely BOTH will sit on their respective dead asses and do nothing!

FL Carry would get involved to my knowledge.

Florida Carry might get involved.  The NRA will immediately spring into  action with a mass mailing campaign begging for more money.

Itshappening.gif

I've been on hold with them for 30 mins and had the live chat open for almost and hour now waiting to ask if I can use a expeired passport to verify US citizenship on my application, That and If I can send it all via fax.

Hate to say it, but this is yet another example of why women shouldn't be in positions of power. I've seen it too many times. They just cant handle it.

Not sure thats the problem here...doing this was one her main campaign promises.

Fried is keeping to her campaign promises.

Someone with the same name is the system? Someone didn't do their job obviously.  There would be no other reason I could see if the guy had no record of it anywhere.  Or someone is randomly tagging people for this to appear to be keeping the system in check.

If things really get bad Hammer might send out an email.

Maybe its time we started pushing for permit less carry.

Almost no chance, even permitted open carry gets shot down every year, tons of antigun bills introduced along with Marion Hammer seemingly working against us sometimes.

Will never happen, way too many anti gun Republicans in the State House and Senate.

Talking with FL Carry, they and I agree that there won't be anything moving forward legislatively.

Talking with FL Carry, they and I agree that there won't be anything moving forward legislatively.

LOL, that was my first thought too about the NRA...they never let an opportunity for fund raising slip away.  I'm not sure FL Carry is much different.  I don't think they've updated anything on their website in 4 years so I honestly don't know if they're still active (other than they email me to renew annually).

They just had a legislative day at the Capitol and are doing an Open Carry Fishing March here in Tallahassee this weekend and will open carry march through the Capitol.

Their Facebook is basically their main website now.

I will rely the information that they really need to update it.

Good to hear and thanks for the update and for all you do!

Thanks for posting. Is it your opinion that we should all be Florida Carry members and are they the best organization to help protect the rights of FL citizens?

Just took me less than five minutes to renew today. Kind of felt like they short changed me because it was so quick.

Definitely. And if you're on FB, get into the FC group. You'll find out a ton more there.

This is ridiculous. Is she exempt from lawsuits? If not a big punitive settlement is in order.

Is there anything pro on the agenda? Have you had any discussions about this bull shit ballot initiative with Florida carry?

I have a bad feeling about the future of gun rights in Florida.   The new Attorney General might well be a problem too.

Legislatively, there is nothing pro that will pass due to the leadership in the House and Senate. In my conversations with Eric Friday, they have been building up a plan to fight this and word is even NRA is building a plan to fight this. But I haven't heard directly from NRA.

Well it seems our "esteemed" FL Secretary of Ag is barred from owning/possessing a firearm and/or ammunition under current federal firearm regulations due to  her admitted medical marijuana card and current marijuana usage for a "sleep disorders".  So the person who is in charge of issuing Florida CWPs is ineligible to own or possess a firearm, ironic regardless of one's personal feelings as to the application of the federal issue.

"Fried herself has a prescription for medical marijuana, according to a spokesperson: “Commissioner Fried is a medical marijuana card-holder. She uses this medicine to treat a sleep disorder after finding the medicine to be a safer and more effective alternative to traditional pharmaceutical drugs or over-the-counter sleep aids, which were ineffective.”" Florida Trend

"The ATF released an open letter in 2011 to provide guidance to its licensees that were seeing an increased number of customer questions about the ban. “Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medical purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law,” the letter read. “Therefore, any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legalization authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition.”" From a wacky weed advocate source (underline is my edit)

I'm gonna whip thay up into an article. Thanks!

I saved a pdf copy of the FT article just in case it is suddenly edited for you know "clarification"...

She has publicly stated she is a gun owner and a CCW permit holder. Thanks for the info. I'm passing this along to Eric Friday.

Marion Hammer will continue to suck her own dick, as she's done for a decade now. That's all she's good for.

@Miami_JBT

Have you guys found out which database contained the error?  Might be a good idea to get that fixed.  I wonder if the Fair Credit Reporting Act (includes criminal background checks) would apply to this situation, or if FL has a similar law that might apply.  Under the FCRA, I believe the inquiring organization must disclose all the details about the adverse information upon which they are basing their decision.

Alternatively, the individual be able to use the Florida Sunshine Law.

I'd love to see you guys manage to force the agency to revoke Nikki Fried's permit.

Well, now. That would be interesting if whomever sold her a gun has a copy of the 4473, and if that was AFTER her medical marijuana usage.  Might need to tip the ATF about a felony being committed

+1....Just look at  the U.S. Congress  

Guilty until proven innocent. The mantra of "red flag" laws. Liberals hate freedom.  Has anyone heard from the crazy cat lady? In my experience the NRA as a rule will avoid individual cases and not even lift a finger to help.

Not really. She is an independently elected Constitutional Officer. As long as she isn't violating the law, and in theory she isn't. He can't do shit.

I'd like to see items 11E and 15 on that form along with the date she became a card carrying dopehead.

Tag... This thread is going places!

They should have it for 20 years before tossing or handing over to ATF.

hahaha this is awesome

Is stangboy555 going to make a public records request for any and all public records relating to the suspension of his/her license? The request should include any emails, any case notes electronic or handwritten, any internal documents, and records relating to the investigation into his license, what databases were accessed to make this determination, the registered user who made the request in the database, the registered user's supervisor, state email addresses of the officials involved the date and time of the records request, the actual records request text and the return transaction as a result of this request, the name of the offical who made the determination he was ineligible to possess a concealed weapons license etc.
Florida has a broad public records law and government officials  can not act in secret unless it's an active criminal investigation and knowing state bureaucracy what it is there is a pile of paperwork electronic or otherwise regarding this action on his license. They can not destroy or conceal any state work product even if they made a mistake and if they used f/ncic to make a determination and transferred those records to another form they should be releaseable.

Every F/NCIC request and return is recorded nearly forever including the exact time to the second and the user who made the request similar rules with other  systems. If they cut and pasted the info into an email that's a violation CJIS rules and that was done a lot and paperpushing users aren't as careful with the rules as operational law enforcement CJIS users are.

Failure to comply with a public records request in a timely manner can result in a variety of consequences. If they stonewall you file a complaint with the inspector general's office.

Once you get the names of the people involved and dates of the transaction do a seperate request for all emails and electronic communications from archived sources for their email addresses for a short time period before and after your transactions. Just because......you can and they have to comply. Most government officals unless they are cops never expect an intrusion into their little world of internal communications you may uncover a shitstorm of course you may have to pay a little bit for the the info but it would probably be worth it just to add to the thread length....