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Posted: 3/23/2022 8:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm]
I'm getting ready to change my state of residency to TN and as I read through the requirements for the enhanced carry permit it seems like as a retired SOF guy I'm exempt from the training?  

My DD214 lists multiple handgun and firearms training schools, etc. I was also an instructor at range 37, NC CCW instructor, FBI instructor course, 5 different NRA instructor quals, etc…

Did I read that correctly?  Can I just apply and provide documentation?

Proof of military handgun training
o Military personnel who have completed four (4) hours of handgun training and who provide proof of that training on one of the forms listed below, specifying pistol or handgun on the document, may be exempt from taking the handgun safety course altogether:
? DD-2586
? CG-3029
? DA-88-R
? DA-5704-R
? AF Form 522
? DD-214
View Quote
Link Posted: 3/23/2022 9:32:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 19Charlie278] [#1]
If you’re moving to TN from another state,I think you can swap you CCP for a TN ECP.  Your military training would negate your need to take the “range day,” but I think that’s only for active duty/AGR Soldiers.  Past performance/past training and certifications probably won’t serve you well now.

I’m interested to see if we get an authority on this subject soon.  I’m genuinely interested, as well!

I had written commanders’ memorandums for my Soldiers back in the day, and included their most recent score card.  The memorandum, describing their marksmanship training, and score cards were enough to secure the permit.  This was before the break between constitutional carry and enhanced carry…
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 3:51:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm] [#2]
Just finished up at the licensing bureau for both my DL and CCW.  

My DD214 was used for the enhanced CCW and no further training or classes required.  Cost was $100 for 8 years and the only other requirement is that I get fingerprinted which I have an appointment for tomorrow morning.

The gal told me that DD214 must reflect that you've had pistol qualification and or training.

Pretty straightforward.

My FL CCW is still in effect until I receive my TN CCW.
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Great to hear!  Welcome to your Tennessee home!
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 8:57:31 AM EDT
[#4]
"I am an OTC graduate"

"Sorry, sir, that isn't an approved hand gun course."

Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:31:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm] [#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
"I am an OTC graduate"

"Sorry, sir, that isn't an approved hand gun course."

View Quote



Honestly none of the commando stuff was applicable as they don't really mention any type of duty desrcripton on a DD214. All the civilian shooting schools I went through were on my 2-1 but don't carry over to the DD214 either.  

They actually keyed on my first SF MOS, which was 18B Heavy Weapons.  She saw the word "weapons" and said that was enough.  They were actually really sweet ladies.
Link Posted: 4/7/2022 3:48:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:
Just finished up at the licensing bureau for both my DL and CCW.  

My DD214 was used for the enhanced CCW and no further training or classes required.  Cost was $100 for 8 years and the only other requirement is that I get fingerprinted which I have an appointment for tomorrow morning.

The gal told me that DD214 must reflect that you've had pistol qualification and or training.

Pretty straightforward.

My FL CCW is still in effect until I receive my TN CCW.
View Quote


If you read the requirements, you're technically supposed to sit for the classroom portion of the enhanced class, but the range component is waived.  It seems like they ignore that alot.
Link Posted: 4/8/2022 12:17:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kcobean:


If you read the requirements, you're technically supposed to sit for the classroom portion of the enhanced class, but the range component is waived.  It seems like they ignore that alot.
View Quote


I was a NC ccw instructor and there was a lot of good info that got put out in the classroom portion.  I may attend one of these just to get tuned up again.
Link Posted: 4/25/2022 9:35:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:


I was a NC ccw instructor and there was a lot of good info that got put out in the classroom portion.  I may attend one of these just to get tuned up again.
View Quote


@pdm, that's exactly what I did.  The folks at the Department of Safety kinda skipped over the fact that I didn't have the class certificate and allowed me to get my lifetime enhanced permit anyway.  Just cuz I didn't feel right about it, I found an instructor and went and sat the classroom portion of his class.  I hoped it would be a little more TN law focused, as I believe that's what the law wants you to get out of having to sit the class despite being small arms trained, but it is what it is.  

Get friendly with Lexis-Nexis, as that's where all of the TN code is kept including all things firearms related, and it can be a chore to find relevant info there.
Link Posted: 4/26/2022 6:49:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm] [#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kcobean:


@pdm, that's exactly what I did.  The folks at the Department of Safety kinda skipped over the fact that I didn't have the class certificate and allowed me to get my lifetime enhanced permit anyway.  Just cuz I didn't feel right about it, I found an instructor and went and sat the classroom portion of his class.  I hoped it would be a little more TN law focused, as I believe that's what the law wants you to get out of having to sit the class despite being small arms trained, but it is what it is.  

Get friendly with Lexis-Nexis, as that's where all of the TN code is kept including all things firearms related, and it can be a chore to find relevant info there.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By kcobean:


@pdm, that's exactly what I did.  The folks at the Department of Safety kinda skipped over the fact that I didn't have the class certificate and allowed me to get my lifetime enhanced permit anyway.  Just cuz I didn't feel right about it, I found an instructor and went and sat the classroom portion of his class.  I hoped it would be a little more TN law focused, as I believe that's what the law wants you to get out of having to sit the class despite being small arms trained, but it is what it is.  

Get friendly with Lexis-Nexis, as that's where all of the TN code is kept including all things firearms related, and it can be a chore to find relevant info there.



@kcobean,  So do you think it's worth my time/money to sit through a class or should I just research TN law myself (which I've done already..) ?  

The NC course had 3 VCR tapes that, at the time, were mandatory to watch and actually were quite good.  

One of the tapes covered scenarios….coming to the aid of someone, regaining the right of self defense as an original aggressor….situations that that if you weren't tuned up on the law you might make a mistake.

From what I'm reading TN law is very similar in many cases, e.g. regaining the right of self defense when you were the initial aggressor…that's about the same as NC.  What's interesting here in TN is the justified use of force against a LEO. I've never seen that before under NC as far as I recall.  

Tennessee Code Title 39. Criminal Offenses § 39-11-611

(e) The threat or use of force against another is not justified:

(1) If the person using force consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual;

(2) If the person using force provoked the other individual's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:

(A) The person using force abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so;  and

(B) The other person nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person;  or

(3) To resist a halt at a roadblock, arrest, search, or stop and frisk that the person using force knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, unless:

(A) The law enforcement officer uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest, search, stop and frisk, or halt;  and

(B) The person using force reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary to protect against the law enforcement officer's use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
Link Posted: 4/26/2022 11:15:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:



@kcobean,  So do you think it's worth my time/money to sit through a class or should I just research TN law myself (which I've done already..) ?  

The NC course had 3 VCR tapes that, at the time, were mandatory to watch and actually were quite good.  

One of the tapes covered scenarios….coming to the aid of someone, regaining the right of self defense as an original aggressor….situations that that if you weren't tuned up on the law you might make a mistake.

From what I'm reading TN law is very similar in many cases, e.g. regaining the right of self defense when you were the initial aggressor…that's about the same as NC.  What's interesting here in TN is the justified use of force against a LEO. I've never seen that before under NC as far as I recall.  

Tennessee Code Title 39. Criminal Offenses § 39-11-611

View Quote


@pdm I will say that the class I sat through was more about the "tactics" of carrying a gun (situational awareness, creating distance, etc) and not as much as I would have liked about the legalities of use of force.  I'd say if you have your permit already, and you're capable of sifting through the laws yourself, then a class might not be of much benefit to you.  It may vary by instructor of course, but if what you want is specific knowledge of the law, you're probably better off doing your own research.
Link Posted: 4/26/2022 11:20:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kcobean:


@pdm I will say that the class I sat through was more about the "tactics" of carrying a gun (situational awareness, creating distance, etc) and not as much as I would have liked about the legalities of use of force.  I'd say if you have your permit already, and you're capable of sifting through the laws yourself, then a class might not be of much benefit to you.  It may vary by instructor of course, but if what you want is specific knowledge of the law, you're probably better off doing your own research.
View Quote


Thanks. I'm not sure I want to pay some guy to teach tactics.   The NC course only addresses safe gun handling and the rest of the time is dedicated to NC law on concealed carry and the use of deadly force….or at least it did back in the 1990's.  


Link Posted: 4/26/2022 11:28:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Can anyone provide the info for the enhanced permit vs the online permit?

When I got my enhanced permit I read at the time it was the only one that allowed open carry and allowed me to conceal carry in other states.

Buddy has the online permit and he said he can carry in other states as well and from what I read online online permits can open carry as well.

Since they passed constitutional carry I haven’t been able to find anything showing that the enhanced permit grants reciprocity.
Link Posted: 4/26/2022 1:46:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Amped:
Can anyone provide the info for the enhanced permit vs the online permit?

When I got my enhanced permit I read at the time it was the only one that allowed open carry and allowed me to conceal carry in other states.

Buddy has the online permit and he said he can carry in other states as well and from what I read online online permits can open carry as well.

Since they passed constitutional carry I haven’t been able to find anything showing that the enhanced permit grants reciprocity.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Amped:
Can anyone provide the info for the enhanced permit vs the online permit?

When I got my enhanced permit I read at the time it was the only one that allowed open carry and allowed me to conceal carry in other states.

Buddy has the online permit and he said he can carry in other states as well and from what I read online online permits can open carry as well.

Since they passed constitutional carry I haven’t been able to find anything showing that the enhanced permit grants reciprocity.



My understanding is that the only current difference is open carry with enhanced

There’s verbiage on the concealed carry about not being allowed to carry on school grounds. Enhanced doesn’t have that verbiage but also doesn’t affirm it.

Tenn carry license type

Edit: As I dig deeper it becomes apperant that the main difference between Enhanced and concelaed is simply the ability to open carry with enhanced. The carrying on school grounds apears to only apply to certain school employees that ALSO have an enhanced carry permit.

Info on CCW

Enhanced Handgun Carry Permit:

Almost all of the restrictions for Concealed Carry permit holders (listed above) also apply to Enhanced Carry permit holders. The main difference only applies to a small set of people: employees of public colleges who have the Enhanced Carry Permit.

As for those employees, the General Assembly provides this summary:

An enhanced handgun carry permit holder who is within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place is generally exempt from the present law prohibition against carrying weapons on any property owned, operated, or while in use by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. Such exemption will not apply to concealed handgun carry permit holders.

This summary is admittedly confusing, especially when read in conjunction with the relevant statutes. So, we contacted the Department of Safety for clarification. We were told that public college employees with Enhanced Carry permits can carry in parks while school activities are taking place, unless those activities include athletic events.

If students are present for an athletic event, then carrying a firearm is prohibited, even for Enhanced Carry permit holders. For more information, see Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-1309(e) and § 39-17-1311(b)(1)(H), or email the Department of Safety to inquire further.

And again, this provision only applies if you’re a full-time (not part-time) employee (not a student) of a public (not private) college or university, and you have the Enhanced (not the Concealed) permit, and you’ve gone through all the steps for authorized campus carry under Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-1309(e). So, this distinction probably won’t affect the vast majority of permit holders.


Link Posted: 4/27/2022 10:22:10 AM EDT
[#14]
The biggest benefit to the enhanced permit, at least in my eyes, is the ability to obtain a lifetime permit.  I paid my $260 or whatever it was for the convenience of never having to renew my permit again.

Link Posted: 4/29/2022 11:57:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JPN] [#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Amped:
Can anyone provide the info for the enhanced permit vs the online permit?

When I got my enhanced permit I read at the time it was the only one that allowed open carry and allowed me to conceal carry in other states.

Buddy has the online permit and he said he can carry in other states as well and from what I read online online permits can open carry as well.

Since they passed constitutional carry I haven’t been able to find anything showing that the enhanced permit grants reciprocity.
View Quote


Concealed permit holders can now carry openly when in areas that it is legal to carry under the state permitless carry law, but they are doing so under the permitless carry law, not their permit.  If they enter an area where permitless carry is not allowed, they have to conceal, since they are then carrying under the laws concerning their permit.

Enhanced permit holders are not required to conceal, as that is how the laws concerning the original handgun carry permit (renamed to 'enhanced', when the 'concealed only' permit was created) were written - no requirement for how the (enhanced) permit holder carries.

Somewhere on the state website, there is a chart showing which states acknowledge the Tennessee carry permits.  Last time I checked, there were a few that acknowledge the enhanced permit but do not acknowledge the concealed only permit.  

There would be a lot less confusion, if the useless 'concealed only' law had never been passed.

ETA: The 'concealed only' permit is a bit of a sore spot, for me.  

It's main purpose for existing, was to delay passage of a Constitutional Carry law in TN (it succeeded in delaying passage for a year or so).  

It was also passed with a campaign of lies.  When the NRA started openly supporting it and asking members to contact their reps to voice support, they had a list of selling points for the bill, that were taken from the original bill before any amendments were made to it.  As I recall, all but one of their selling points had been removed from the bill, months before they started their campaign to generate support for the bill.  But why worry about the details, when we could pass a bill creating a carry permit that had no fees (free) and no training requirement?  ...except that the bill had already evolved to one that had fees and a training requirement (but the bill sponsor gave up on trying to explain the training requirement and said the state department of safety would have to figure out the details of the training requirement, since they would be issuing the permits).

It also created confusion, by leaving out a few details on where carry was legal - one or two of the laws that had removed carry restrictions on permit holders in previous years, were written to state that the carry permit (now the 'enhanced' carry permit) was an exception to the prohibition against guns in certain areas, but those particular laws were not further amended to include the 'concealed only' permit as an exception.  We already had enough of a headache over restrictions on 'park carry' (and the quagmire of what is legally considered a park), without piling on more to the legal patchwork.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 7:36:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks gents. Before Constitutional Carry I remember reading about the difference but after that passed a lot of that info went away.

Happy to have my enhanced permit nevertheless
Link Posted: 5/8/2022 9:39:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Rather than start a new topic, I figured I could tag onto this one.  I’m moving to back to TN this week (have been in AL the last 3 years) and the permitting laws have obviously changed.  Betwee the training required for my last TN permit (the 8 hour course) and the small arms qualification on my DD 214 does that waive me from the the classroom and range training?
Link Posted: 5/9/2022 5:53:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ranger431:
Rather than start a new topic, I figured I could tag onto this one.  I’m moving to back to TN this week (have been in AL the last 3 years) and the permitting laws have obviously changed.  Betwee the training required for my last TN permit (the 8 hour course) and the small arms qualification on my DD 214 does that waive me from the the classroom and range training?
View Quote


It did for me. Showed my DD214, paid my money and received my Enhanced carry permit in the mail about 3 weeks later.


Link Posted: 5/17/2022 1:18:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ranger431:
Rather than start a new topic, I figured I could tag onto this one.  I’m moving to back to TN this week (have been in AL the last 3 years) and the permitting laws have obviously changed.  Betwee the training required for my last TN permit (the 8 hour course) and the small arms qualification on my DD 214 does that waive me from the the classroom and range training?
View Quote


If you do not hold a current TN permit, I'm not sure if the training from your last permit would still apply (I think it should, but I'm not sure what the law says).  If it does NOT apply, then you would be required to sit the classroom portion of the enhanced class again, but your DD214 (assuming it indicates small arms proficiency) only waives the range portion of the training requirement.  I can dig up the doc for you if you want to see it.
Link Posted: 5/17/2022 1:21:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Here you go:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/safety/documents/handgun/EHCPTrainingRequirements.pdf

From this doc:

Military personnel who have completed four (4) hours of handgun training and who
provide proof of that training on one of the forms listed below, specifying pistol or
handgun on the document, may be exempt from taking the handgun safety course
altogether:
 DD-2586
 CG-3029
 DA-88-R
 DA-5704-R
 AF Form 522
 DD-214
o Military personnel that have had small arms qualification training listed on their Honorable
discharged DD214 form will be exempt from taking the firing range portion of the Handgun
Safety Class but they must take the classroom portion.



The way I read this, if your previous training applies, you're good.  If it doesn't, you need the classroom portion again.
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