User Panel
Posted: 4/11/2019 8:13:33 AM EDT
MONTGOMERY, AL (WSFA) - Dozens of people came to the statehouse to oppose a bill that would rid Alabamians of a requirement to obtain a pistol permit before concealed carrying a firearm.
... “The founding fathers gave us the right to possess a firearm to carry that and to be able to protect our families, our businesses, our personal properties without paying a fee or tax,” Allen said. Allen said the bill does not get rid of permits. He said when legislation has passed like this in other counties, the number of registered permits increased. ... At least 50 people with the organization Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense traveled to lobby against the bill. Judy Taylor with the organization traveled from Tuscaloosa. She is a gun owner and opposes the legislation. “I think it’s important that our law enforcement have some overview of who is able to legally obtain a gun,” Taylor said. “I’m also a person that believes in guns, in hunting, in gun safety, and sensible gun legislation.” ... At least ten sheriffs attended the hearing as well. Montgomery County Sheriff Derrick Cunningham said there are many sheriffs against this. He said if a criminal does not have a permit, it is another “tool” to put someone in jail. “We find that all the time, where people have weapons. But at the same time, if we stop you and you don’t have a permit, we’ve got a reason to put you in jail,” Cunningham said. “You take that permit away from us, then what we got? We’ve got nothing. We’re going to have problems in our community, problems in our schools, problems in our events that we’re having.” The bill could come up in committee again next week. http://www.wbrc.com/2019/04/10/dozens-lobby-against-scrapping-concealed-carry-permit-requirement/ |
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I have had a permit since it was required to sit in Bill Franklin's office and tell him why I needed a gun and feel it should not be forced....that being said, I would still renew every year as I have done for years.
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"I think it's important that our law enforcement have some overview of who is able to legally obtain a gun," Taylor said. View Quote Or, because that is Federal they can't act on it? So, just pass a state law saying a felon cannot posses, problem solved. |
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This is a glaring example of the lack of local leadership to know that hearings like this are taking place.
Yet no one but the gun banners know it's going on. |
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Ahh, wouldn't a felon in possession be a charge? Or, because that is Federal they can't act on it? So, just pass a state law saying a felon cannot posses, problem solved. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
"I think it's important that our law enforcement have some overview of who is able to legally obtain a gun," Taylor said. Or, because that is Federal they can't act on it? So, just pass a state law saying a felon cannot posses, problem solved. There is no provision in AL law to notify LE of person to "legally obtain a gun". I believe he is referring to the concealed pistol permit process. |
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At the very least, I wish that the legislature would standardize the CCW format and PRICE across the state between counties. Too much variation right now, IMHO.
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Quoted:
This is a glaring example of the lack of local leadership to know that hearings like this are taking place. Yet no one but the gun banners know it's going on. View Quote Guys, you need to join the Facebook group. |
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Quoted: There's another hearing next Wednesday. This one was supposedly cancelled due to time constraints. Guys, you need to join the Facebook group. View Quote Quoted: https://www.facebook.com/events/2280754255319760 Next Wednesday, State House, 8AM View Quote No wonder they're failing. |
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Quoted: A pro gun group using bf. No wonder they're failing. View Quote Their problems are multiple. They have 30k members on that group but less than 200 actual members. Which equates to fuck all in funding and relying on volunteers. So far, 20 people in that group are saying they'll show up at the hearing. MDA won't have that problem. We've discussed the other problems the group has in the other thread, but now you have the date and time of the hearing. Wednesday, 4/17, Statehouse, 8am |
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http://www.wbrc.com/2019/04/18/bill-that-would-end-concealed-carry-pistol-permit-requirement-discussed-wednesday/
Apparently the NRA and Bama Carry was there along with MDA. The anti's moan about it helps the sheriffs keep guns out of criminals hands. |
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Two Alabama sheriffs told lawmakers today that Alabama’s requirement to have a permit to carry a concealed handgun is an important tool for law enforcement and public safety.
Representatives of the National Rifle Association and Bama Carry Inc., an Alabama gun rights organization, said the requirement to buy a permit infringes on the rights of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves and their families. https://www.al.com/news/2019/04/alabama-sheriffs-seek-to-keep-requirement-for-pistol-permit.html |
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JMHO, I think a good compromise would be to standardize the yearly cost statewide to $10.00, as well as the permit format. All monies would go to the state, which would reimburse counties for operating costs to issue the permits. Any surplus would go the state Policeman's Benevolent Association (or whatever it's called). That way, control of this is taken from the counties, where most of the permit revenue is not regulated and is akin to a "slush fund" for whatever use. This also prevents scenarios like the recent Jail Food Funds misuse investigation. Again, JMHO.
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JMHO, I think a good compromise would be to standardize the yearly cost statewide to $10.00, as well as the permit format. All monies would go to the state, which would reimburse counties for operating costs to issue the permits. Any surplus would go the state Policeman's Benevolent Association (or whatever it's called). That way, control of this is taken from the counties, where most of the permit revenue is not regulated and is akin to a "slush fund" for whatever use. This also prevents scenarios like the recent Jail Food Funds misuse investigation. Again, JMHO. View Quote The streets are not running red with blood when we went from May Issue to Shall Issue and gave 18 yr old permits, like the sheriffs claimed would happen. They have proven they are not capable of managing the system for the citizens of Alabama so that power should be removed. |
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SB4 has been moved to the Tourism committee and is scheduled for a vote Tuesday.
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SB4 has been moved to the Tourism committee and is scheduled for a vote Tuesday. View Quote I found the few comments interesting from this site... https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB4/2019 |
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Quoted: So for the idiots here like myself what does this mean? I found the few comments interesting from this site... https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB4/2019 View Quote The committee is headed by Del Marsh, who spoke at the Bamacarry conference this year. |
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Quoted: It means that it will likely pass and go to the Senate for a full vote. The committee is headed by Del Marsh, who spoke at the Bamacarry conference this year. View Quote Thank you as well for the information! |
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Quoted: Wow, so this is excellent news. I'll wait until it passes, but I'd love to learn the parties most responsible for helping in order to donate to them. Thank you as well for the information! View Quote The aberration this year is MDA showing up. They gained ground when Doug Jones was elected and outside money started flowing in. After this session is over we honestly need to either reorganize BamaCarry or start a new group. |
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It passes the Senate every year, the problem is the House committees. The aberration this year is MDA showing up. They gained ground when Doug Jones was elected and outside money started flowing in. After this session is over we honestly need to either reorganize BamaCarry or start a new group. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Wow, so this is excellent news. I'll wait until it passes, but I'd love to learn the parties most responsible for helping in order to donate to them. Thank you as well for the information! The aberration this year is MDA showing up. They gained ground when Doug Jones was elected and outside money started flowing in. After this session is over we honestly need to either reorganize BamaCarry or start a new group. Tredway and Farley is who you guys needs to be hitting up. They are the ones keeping it from getting a committee vote to go to the house for a full floor vote. |
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It passes the Senate every year, the problem is the House committees. The aberration this year is MDA showing up. They gained ground when Doug Jones was elected and outside money started flowing in. After this session is over we honestly need to either reorganize BamaCarry or start a new group. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Wow, so this is excellent news. I'll wait until it passes, but I'd love to learn the parties most responsible for helping in order to donate to them. Thank you as well for the information! The aberration this year is MDA showing up. They gained ground when Doug Jones was elected and outside money started flowing in. After this session is over we honestly need to either reorganize BamaCarry or start a new group. |
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I popped over occasionally because I live so close to the AL/MS state line and this thread caught my eye. Antis always say about the same things whenever gun rights are extended.
"The streets will run red with blood." "Wild, wild West." "Next thing you know they'll be letting grade schoolers carry guns." Godspeed, hope you guys get it. Keep up the good fight. |
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Its dead, Jim. Again.
Link IMHO, I still think the way to do it is to lower the permit costs to no more than $5 a year. After a few years, when the Sheriff's are weened off the money, then put forth a bill for constitutional carry. |
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Allen said he asked to have the bill moved to the Tourism Committee because he did not think it was moving fast enough in the Judiciary Committee.
Sen. Cam Ward, R-Alabaster, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said he supported the bill. But Ward said he did not want a repeat of what has happened previously, approval of the bill by the committee only to see it fail to come up for a vote in the House. https://www.al.com/news/2019/04/bill-to-repeal-alabama-pistol-permit-requirement-shot-down-in-committee.html And here comes your Red Flag law |
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Next go around my thoughts is there should be a try at a limited constitutional carry and an enhanced pistol permit which allows more carry rights such as carrying at political events. Something that will make it clear people are still going to want to buy it. Ban on all vehicle carry has to come out though, it's blatantly unconstitutional.
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Honestly, there needs to be a sit-down organized among the state-level organizations, the NRA, and unaffiliated members here. We need to work together and figure out how to move forward.
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Honestly, there needs to be a sit-down organized among the state-level organizations, the NRA, and unaffiliated members here. We need to work together and figure out how to move forward. View Quote The gun grabbers get what they want because they are going for baby steps that they believe will eventually lead to a complete gun ban. So, lets use the same tactics. My idea is to reduce the permit cost to no more than $5 a year. Since they have screamed for years that it isn't about money, agree with them. Then after several years, introduce a constitutional carry bill. The idea of an enhanced permit is a good one, especially since Mississippi already does it. And either way, I do agree that all the state level groups, NRA and interested parties need to come together. This year, the legislature is already showing they will do what they want, regardless of how we the voters feel. We need to make sure they realize that if they want to pass a gun control bill, it would be the equivalent of sticking their political careers in a wood chipper! |
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I'd like to see a united coalition of gun rights activists have an adult sit down with Alabama Sheriff's Association folks to try and find some conceivable way to make a long term change that doesn't hurt law enforcement, but gets them out of the perverse incentive game to license civil rights.
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I said in a post above that, IMHO, we're going to have to wean the sheriffs off the money before we can get constitutional carry. In other words, make it so the loss of revenue is not significant enough for them to oppose consititutional carry. Here in Autauga County, the permit is $20 a year. If only 2000 people out of the 55,504 people in my county have pistol permits, that's $40,000 a year that the sheriff has coming in. They'll fight tooth and nail to keep that revenue stream. The gun grabbers get what they want because they are going for baby steps that they believe will eventually lead to a complete gun ban. So, lets use the same tactics. My idea is to reduce the permit cost to no more than $5 a year. Since they have screamed for years that it isn't about money, agree with them. Then after several years, introduce a constitutional carry bill. The idea of an enhanced permit is a good one, especially since Mississippi already does it. And either way, I do agree that all the state level groups, NRA and interested parties need to come together. This year, the legislature is already showing they will do what they want, regardless of how we the voters feel. We need to make sure they realize that if they want to pass a gun control bill, it would be the equivalent of sticking their political careers in a wood chipper! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Honestly, there needs to be a sit-down organized among the state-level organizations, the NRA, and unaffiliated members here. We need to work together and figure out how to move forward. The gun grabbers get what they want because they are going for baby steps that they believe will eventually lead to a complete gun ban. So, lets use the same tactics. My idea is to reduce the permit cost to no more than $5 a year. Since they have screamed for years that it isn't about money, agree with them. Then after several years, introduce a constitutional carry bill. The idea of an enhanced permit is a good one, especially since Mississippi already does it. And either way, I do agree that all the state level groups, NRA and interested parties need to come together. This year, the legislature is already showing they will do what they want, regardless of how we the voters feel. We need to make sure they realize that if they want to pass a gun control bill, it would be the equivalent of sticking their political careers in a wood chipper! I am not a lawyer, so I am interested to see if a legal eagle sees a potential avenue through the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment applying to any pistol permit carrier in the 66 counties that are more expensive than the least expensive county. Whether right or wrong, Alabama still has some stigma associated with it from the Civil War and Civil Rights era, so maybe a legal challenge via one of the Reconstruction Amendments would be fruitful; especially is there is any data correlating higher fees in counties that have a higher population or percentage of blacks. A legal ruling knocking the state wide cost of a pistol permit down to the lowest amount offered by a county would be a big hurdle to clear, IMO. At the national level, the best 2A gains have been made in the Judiciary. Maybe we should work to do that at the state level as well. That would also allow entities like the SAF and FPC to get involved. |
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Unfortunately, I am at the point where I agree with you that an incremental approach towards Constitutional Carry would be best. View Quote I emailed Tredway after the bill's failure in 2018, recommending he take an incremental approach. I never got a response, and apparently, he must not have seen my email.... Edit: Maybe after Sheriff's can't pocket inmate food money, maybe some journalist will start looking into where pistol permit monies go? |
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I will be joining you in 5 years when I retire so I'm counting on you all to get this done!
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