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Posted: 12/5/2018 8:06:00 PM EDT
WTF! I mean i get when a trade is coming up things are gonna happen but to trade a franchise player for 3 no names...
Predicting fan attendance is gonna drop quite a bit for 2019 as Arizona has made it very obvious they want to rebuild from nothing.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25461805/arizona-diamondbacks-trade-paul-goldschmidt-st-louis-cardinals
Link Posted: 12/5/2018 9:01:08 PM EDT
[#1]
All that matters to them is how much money they will save in player payroll.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 8:55:46 AM EDT
[#2]
OK a little perspective from an avid STL Cardinals fan.  Also  avid following trades and the like.

First, yes, I am excited having Goldschmidt on the Cards.  It makes them instant contenders for a division title with the rest of the team they already had.  Yes he is an elite bat and player at 1B.  Yeah, I like the deal because the players STL traded are from an area of depth they can replace.

But if you think it was a total steal think again.  First off, Goldie is only under contract for one more year.  The players STL sent are under contract for 5-6 years each.  It does matter.  Second, the players sent were not complete scrubs as most AZ fans likely think.

Weaver is a 25 year old pitcher who has already started 48 games at the ML level.  He has 238 strikeouts in 233 innings.  He was a top 100 prospect 2 years ago.  He is not chopped liver.  He may never be better than a #4-5 in a rotation.  Or he could improve command of a 3rd pitch and become a solid #2.  Believe me a #2 starter for 5 years is worth more than any 1B for one year.  In baseball reality.  But the Cards have LOTS of pitching depth.  They could afford to deal him.

Kelly was the #1 catching prospect in baseball in 2017.  last year?  Wasn't great at the plate but learning and defense is fine.  Reason he was expendable?  A guy names Molina who won't admit his age and plays 123 games.  Kelly may never be a big hitter.  You never know with kids but he is 24 years old and ready to get a shot at being an every day catcher.  That also has value.  And why would STL deal if he is so good?  This kid named Knizner in the minors is looking even better than Kelly and should arrive by 2020 when Molina and age finally truly meet.

I give you that the 3rd name on the list isn't expected to make it.  He is an undersized middle infielder who is killing it lately in the minors and Mexican league.  It's possible.  And a draft pick.

Hazen isn't an idiot.  He contacted all the other teams to get a feel for the current market for 1B players.  Even elite hitters like Goldie.  He extracted the best the market offered.  He could have kept him and got less at the trade deadline when the snakes were already out of it.  Or waited and got the draft pick next year.  For what?  So the Backs could win 75 games instead of 70?  No point.

Yeah, I am stoked as a Cards fan.  But I don't think the snakes were screwed.  It was market value and a win-win for both teams.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 9:44:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OK a little perspective from an avid STL Cardinals fan.  Also  avid following trades and the like.

First, yes, I am excited having Goldschmidt on the Cards.  It makes them instant contenders for a division title with the rest of the team they already had.  Yes he is an elite bat and player at 1B.  Yeah, I like the deal because the players STL traded are from an area of depth they can replace.

But if you think it was a total steal think again.  First off, Goldie is only under contract for one more year.  The players STL sent are under contract for 5-6 years each.  It does matter.  Second, the players sent were not complete scrubs as most AZ fans likely think.

Weaver is a 25 year old pitcher who has already started 48 games at the ML level.  He has 238 strikeouts in 233 innings.  He was a top 100 prospect 2 years ago.  He is not chopped liver.  He may never be better than a #4-5 in a rotation.  Or he could improve command of a 3rd pitch and become a solid #2.  Believe me a #2 starter for 5 years is worth more than any 1B for one year.  In baseball reality.  But the Cards have LOTS of pitching depth.  They could afford to deal him.

Kelly was the #1 catching prospect in baseball in 2017.  last year?  Wasn't great at the plate but learning and defense is fine.  Reason he was expendable?  A guy names Molina who won't admit his age and plays 123 games.  Kelly may never be a big hitter.  You never know with kids but he is 24 years old and ready to get a shot at being an every day catcher.  That also has value.  And why would STL deal if he is so good?  This kid named Knizner in the minors is looking even better than Kelly and should arrive by 2020 when Molina and age finally truly meet.

I give you that the 3rd name on the list isn't expected to make it.  He is an undersized middle infielder who is killing it lately in the minors and Mexican league.  It's possible.  And a draft pick.

Hazen isn't an idiot.  He contacted all the other teams to get a feel for the current market for 1B players.  Even elite hitters like Goldie.  He extracted the best the market offered.  He could have kept him and got less at the trade deadline when the snakes were already out of it.  Or waited and got the draft pick next year.  For what?  So the Backs could win 75 games instead of 70?  No point.

Yeah, I am stoked as a Cards fan.  But I don't think the snakes were screwed.  It was market value and a win-win for both teams.
View Quote
Yup, AZ fans are overreacting.  My FB feed is now like everyone is a tier 1 manager over this lol.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 9:52:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yup, AZ fans are overreacting.  My FB feed is now like everyone is a tier 1 manager over this lol.
View Quote
I watch Cards fans on a forum and many of them whine all the time about stupid trades their GM makes.  Nature of the beast I guess.  You should have heard the outcry when they didn't manage to keep Pujols.  I breathed a huge sigh of relief knowing he was becoming a DH far sooner than a 10 year contract was going to expire.  
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 1:08:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Goldie had no business playing anywhere but in AZ. Ever. Period. He was supposed to be our Jeter. Entire career as a Dback.

We are now in an entire rebuild phase. First, Corbin. Now, the never to be expected in Goldie.

AZ major sports are now SURELY an absolute joke across the entire board. Not even a slight contender for years on paper any longer.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 4:25:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OK a little perspective from an avid STL Cardinals fan.  Also  avid following trades and the like.

First, yes, I am excited having Goldschmidt on the Cards.  It makes them instant contenders for a division title with the rest of the team they already had.  Yes he is an elite bat and player at 1B.  Yeah, I like the deal because the players STL traded are from an area of depth they can replace.
View Quote
Exactly my thoughts.  I am more likely to tune into a STL game than a Dbacks game.  During my Chem Study class in high school, all we did was discuss Cardinals and their trivia.  All day, no real class.  We learned the calculation of the Magic Number and followed the team to the 1982 World Series win!    We did our assignments at home.  Between the teacher and one dorky student, there wasn't a stat or item of Cardinals trivia they didn't know.   Good times!!!

E.T. and Willie McGee!!!!
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 7:29:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Exactly my thoughts.  I am more likely to tune into a STL game than a Dbacks game.  During my Chem Study class in high school, all we did was discuss Cardinals and their trivia.  All day, no real class.  We learned the calculation of the Magic Number and followed the team to the 1982 World Series win!    We did our assignments at home.  Between the teacher and one dorky student, there wasn't a stat or item of Cardinals trivia they didn't know.   Good times!!!

E.T. and Willie McGee!!!!
View Quote
I grew up in Ferguson MO.  I remember similar stuff only in the 60s.  Like in 64 we would listen to World Series games in class on (supposedly) hidden radios and ear piece.  Of course when the Cards would break thru we couldn't suppress our excitement and the teacher who was also a Cards fan wanted to know what happened.

People from other cities don't understand just how ingrained baseball is in STL.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 7:30:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Goldie had no business playing anywhere but in AZ. Ever. Period. He was supposed to be our Jeter. Entire career as a Dback.

We are now in an entire rebuild phase. First, Corbin. Now, the never to be expected in Goldie.

AZ major sports are now SURELY an absolute joke across the entire board. Not even a slight contender for years on paper any longer.
View Quote
I have empathy for you.  Yeah, in a perfect world he would've stayed.  But as a pure baseball move in the current era of baseball they did the right thing to cash in on his value to rebuild for contention again in 3-4 years.
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 7:30:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Diamondbacks aren't good at franchise players.
Link Posted: 12/7/2018 6:01:44 PM EDT
[#10]
I got sick to my stomach.  Its like the Yankees trading Babe Ruth.
Link Posted: 12/14/2018 7:45:06 PM EDT
[#11]
I was really sad they let him go. I was hoping when they let JD go last year it was to resign Goldie..... Obviously not lol
Link Posted: 12/14/2018 9:59:33 PM EDT
[#12]
If they can expect them to unload Greinke next.  They are not in contention mode now and he is a luxury they can not afford as they try to rebuild.
Link Posted: 12/14/2018 11:29:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If they can expect them to unload Greinke next.  They are not in contention mode now and he is a luxury they can not afford as they try to rebuild.
View Quote
I hear they're talking about dealing Peralta too.
Link Posted: 12/15/2018 11:53:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Yeah but the difference between Greinke and Peralta is - one has excess value in a deal.

Greinke is owed $95 million over the next 3 years.  And these are age 35-38 years.  He had an excellent year last year but come on.  If I were AZ GM I'd have him gone long before spring training as I won't risk an arm problem or sign of decline.  Let someone else take the risk  and be on the hook for that money.    Seriously this is a huge risk and no reward for a team out of contention.

Peralta actually has excess value as he enters his 2nd year of arbitration.  So he is a 2 year rental before he becomes a free agent and is an above average LFer.  Not a massive star but many teams would improve and would have to pay more on the open market to get his equal.  He'd probably gain back a couple of decent prospects.  Not a top 50 but something you could expect to produce in the majors.

Another guy they should deal before spring is Brad Boxberger.  He is only under control for one more year so once again not a huge return but he was excellent last year, cheap, and closers are nice to have.  Likely get back something like half what Goldie did.

Other stuff they should do is sign the high risk low cost free agents.  if they pan out, deal them at the break for more prospects.  This is how teams make a quick turnaround to contention.

If AZ wants to get back into the thick of contention they need to make all these moves and more and admit this is a growing year.  If they do, they can be back in it by 2021 or 2022.  If they don't they will be mediocre for years to come.
Link Posted: 12/29/2018 8:24:25 PM EDT
[#15]
And Descalso too.......

Us Diamondback fans better get used to last place in the NL west and the never ending parade of excuses from the owners and management.
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