The DNR is exploring the idea of banning lead hunting bullets and upland bird shot in its survey. Take the survey and let them know how you feel. Survey deadline is tomorrow.

https://dnr.wi.gov/about/wcc/springhearing.html

Some other interesting questions, like allowing wardens to enforce trespassing, and prohibiting pipelines.

First use of bold title ever, LOL.

Filled that out a few days ago.  I wonder what the source was for some of those questions?  Is the new DNR boss from California?

The WIDNR seems to be aggressively pushing for this. There was a similar question in last years Spring Hearing questionnaire.
Gary

Thanks! Filled it out and sent it to my dad. Some real doozies in there

That's a WCC questionnaire, so are they just alerting us to what the DNR is thinking about?  I hope they're not onboard this line of idiocy as well.

I voted against all those absurd lead shot propositions. If you can afford to hunt with a non-lead alternative, other than steel shot for shotguns (which sucks), then have at it. But don't force it upon those who cannot afford it, as they'll just quit the sport. This rankles me.

As a lifelong, dedicated, duck hunter, I will say without reservation...STEEL SHOT SUCKS. I'm willing to bet more ducks are wounded and die unrecovered, leading to another being bagged in it's place (more likely two or more dead for everyone recovered) than died from ingesting lead shot. Tungsten and other lead/steel substitutes work almost as good as lead, but at $35 for a box of 10 ($3.50 per trigger pull), you won't find many people using it. While the tungsten shot has the lethality of lead pellet for pellet, it's not round and flies off at odd angles leading to awful patterns beyond 20 yards. Only the fastest of steel shot works fairly well, and that's about $1 per shell. I'm talking a minimum of 1600fps. We use Remington Hyper Steel, at 1700fps.... until someone makes something faster.  You also have to jump up in pellet size with steel to get anywhere near equal the killing capacity. Bigger shot means less shot in the pattern. Less shot means more wounded ducks. It takes more than one pellet to kill a duck cleanly. I don't think I'd do much grouse hunting if my ammo went from $5 per box to $25 per box.

I view this as just another way for the anti-gun and animal rights people to attack guns and hunters.

I do not understand the crossbow thing either. They opened it to everyone, which I like, and people spent millions on equipment. They want to kill deer but say too many do it with crossbows

Yup.  They say hunter numbers are going down.  They say not enough deer being harvested.  But then they try throwing roadblocks up on things that help with these very problems.

Thanks for post ing this.  
Filled out.

Filled it out.  Thanks.

A local paper article said one of the head guys just has a hatred for crossbows.

I don’t remember his name, but he ordered a study under the assertion that people were dropping traditional bow hunting & gun hunting for crossbows. The study said he was wrong.

I’ll have to look more into it but now it just sounds like he a closet liberal tool-bag if this is his doing.

One of the questions had to do with  committees  not having enough members and letting the chairman pick people to fill the slots.  Any idea which committees these are?  I called the DNR office at Horicon marsh and their answer was to do a public record search because the dnr does not know what the committees are.
I do not like the idea of a committee chairman stacking his committee with evers as GOV.

Filled mine out yesterday.

Well, I do get it to some extent.  Opening crossbows to everyone resulted in far more bucks being killed in the archery season.  That impacted buck availability during the rifle season, pissing off rifle hunters, while doing very little to reduce the population.

If that really is the case, then it seems as it's more an issue of WHAT you can shoot, not what you use to shoot it.

Gun deer has always been too late to catch the rut. If you wanna make gun a little better go back to closing all hunting a few days before gun deer. The biggest issue with population control is all the farm land. If a family/group of 6 have a few hundred acres most only shoot a few does a year, and I don't know how you fix that.

I don't disagree and that's why there were earn-a-buck questions there as well.

Thanks for the great link.  I just completed 50+ questions.

there were some really radical leftist proposals from my local tree-huggers that needed to be voted down.

Exactly!

You have to incentivize people to take more deer. You could give a small tax break to anyone who donates the meat to hunters for the hungry (or similar organizations) or maybe refund the cost of their hunting license to anybody who fills all their Doe Tags.

There isn't a simple solution though.

Can you imagine if they tried earn a buck again. Not only did it turn off a lot of hunters but with online registration some does would be registered a dozen times!

The trouble with WI deer hunting is

1) too much desire to shoot bucks
2) not enough deer are being shot, herd is too large
3) Private land in the southern 1/2 lead to too many pockets of refuges that deer can spend the season in

As much as hunters don't like earn a buck I think its the best way to thin the herds.
If bow hunters had to shoot a doe before they take a buck alot more does would be shot.
I know about the cheating that would go on with the online registering, I never like the online registering, I'd go back to the way it was.

Was listening to a talk by DNR biologist about CWD. He said that CWD is a big scare, no solution in sight. If a solution is not found it will eventually decimate the deer herd.

Seems to me like all things in nature when the population of any creature gets to high/dense it makes a situation that is ripe for disease. WI has made the deer herd ripe for disease for years and the chickens are coming home to roost.
WI hunters have no one to blame but themselves, between the irrational desire to shoot based in antlers rather than herd health and the fight to increase herd size. I'd hope the herd gets a serve haircut before CWD becomes too prevalent for everyone benefit..

I  agree with some of this, disagree with other parts.

Where I disagree...

Shooting bucks (trophy hunting) rather than hunting for herd health is a personal choice for each hunter to make. I'm no deer biologist, nor am I a paid sharpshooter hired to cull deer herds. I hunt for big bucks.... that normally come attached to a lot of meat too. I won't apologize for it. It's what I do and how I've done it for 55 years. I don't hunt deer to control herd size, nor for meat. I hunt for the challenge involved, and big bucks are the ultimate challenge.

Whether or not the herd is too large would depend on where you're looking. Maybe so in central  and southern farmland zones. Definately not true up north. WI is a big state with diverse deer habitat. You cannot manage the whole state the same, based on the situation in just one part of it. What may work down south could be a disaster up north, and visa versa.

I agree with ....

Earn a buck does work, but only with in-person registration, worthless without it. I think we agree on that one totally. I don't like the concept of earn a buck, but it does work. I do NOT like the online registration.

CWD is a big concern, we agree there too.

What you did not touch on, that I would like to see....

No change in crossbow regulations or seasons. I've been around long enough to remember the recurve & long bow guys having the exact same bitch about compound bows, with 'let off" and pin sights and releases making it "too easy", as compared to their traditional instinct sighting and finger tabs. Someone will always bitch about the way someone else does something, if they do it differently. Some gun hunters bitch that crossbows kill too many bucks before gun season. Selfishness and jealousy by some gun hunters...more on those below. Simple fix... earlier gun season.

I would like to see a longer, earlier gun season. I think it's rediculous that gun hunters are denied a crack at the rut in most years. I think Michigan's season dates make far more sense than Wisconsin's. The Wisconsin season actually boils down to, in reality, a 4-5 day season for most working guys. That puts more pressure on certain days, mainly opening weekend and the 2nd weekend. A 16 day season, beginning the weekend prior to the traditional saturday before Thanksgiving would give gun hunters 3 weekends, and 5 more work days for possibly taking time off work, which would spread out all that hunting pressure on public lands. And would still include the "traditional" Thanksgiving holiday.

I'd also like to see the muzzleloader season before the regular gun season, not after it. Maybe 3rd week of October or something like that. But not closing bow seasons. But the bowhunters will bitch about that, and also the blaze orange requirement that goes with it.

The only reason it's not like I described above is selfishness and envy. People are selfish and envious because somebody else might get to hunt before they do. Bowhunters don't want to share the rut with gun hunters...more selfishness and jealousy. They have a 4 month season, and get in this big uproar about the gun hunters, who have 1 week plus an extra weekend, getting an extra 7 days. Boo fucking hoo. I have really grown to dislike bowhunters over the years, even though I was one for about 3 decades. Most I've encountered are self centered, selfish snobs... just my opinion.

OOF. yeah that wouldn't work. Personally, i'm ok with the online registration. However, you can't have both online registration AND earn a buck.




Yeah, i probably bow hunt more than gun and i 100% agree. I just don't get the divide and tribalization that is there with bow hunters. If you want to hunt with a bow, do it. Wanna use a crossbow? Awesome, go for it. If someone else wants to use a gun, great. I'm all for getting more people into the woods because at this point, hunting is dying.  We NEED more people to pick it up. I think lengthening the gun season is a good move. It's not like we're going to be Georgia and have a 4 month gun season. It's an extra week. I honestly would hunt more if that happened, because i can space out my time in the woods.

Earn a buck turns off so many hunters. Sitting opening day knowing you can't shoot that trophy that walks by without shooting a doe first is disheartening. I wonder if it would be possible to bank a doe. Say this year you go doe/buck/doe, so next year you have a buck tag right away and need to shoot a doe to bank for next year.

I quit hunting couple years ago after 45 years. Had to because of health reasons, can't be out in the cold. Plus it got old and no longer a challenge. Shot numerous deer every season and used all the meat for my family. No thrill hunting and donating the meat, for me.

Could shoot a deer most anytime through out the year out my window. During season most the deer are gone as I live next to public land that gets hammered to death. All the deer are gone, long chased off before gun season. But 5 deer this year got killed by cars with in a half mile of my place that I know of. All were left in the ditch to rot.

Who the frick cares what it got killed with?? Killed with a carbon stick powered by a string vertical or horizontal or even air. Gun powder or a Ford it's still a dead deer. All this BS on the method of killing is a fricken joke. It's just a money maker for the state to have different seasons and licenses. Can't you guys figure that out??

IMHO deer season should start Nov 1st, close Dec 1. Weapon of choice isn't an issue. Spear, bow, sling shot, potato gun or firearm. Shoot what weapon you want and everybody gets 1 tag only. No bucks til 2nd week of Nov. You guys want a challenge, right. Of course tags could be regulated for area more if needed or less. Drawing for tags if necessary. KISS method.

If season isn't controlling the herd give land owner tags to the people that pay the taxes on said land. If you don't own land you better have a cute wife or girl friend to help with access. Cutting firewood in a bikini top will open more land to hunting then anything else. Maybe a case of cold beer while watching.

Amen. Well said.

No hunting for me. I am an outsider, and I have no place to hunt. The public land is dangerous and stomped to hell and back. I bought a hunting license and tag the first year up here because it supposedly goes for conservation.
I will just buy a fishing license from here on out.
I feel bad for you that have  watched the changes in your state, I saw similar things back in Ohio.

A lot of it is commies doin commie shit. I especially wonder about the DNR calling it THEIR land. Last I understood it is OUR land but then again the DNR has been up to a lot of the commie shit up here for years.

Same here. I moved in from out of state as an adult, so I do not get to hunt deer unless I shell out for my own private parcel or something. Looking like I might have to do that, but then again, if this state keeps going the way of California with all the dumbfuck idiots in Madison and now this proposed DNR ban on ammunition, I’m not gonna want to stay here.

I don't see why not. They keep records of what you registered every year. Simply have it set up so once you register a second doe, you automatically qualify for a buck tag the next year. It would be fairly simple to program into the system.

I've been hunting public land (Nicolet Nat'l Forest) since 1991, hunted private and adjoining public in the 80s (Pembine area), public in the 70s (Mercer area), private in the 60s (Mauston area). Private is better for most, but the public I've always hunted is up north where I live, and doesn't get "stomped" as bad as I imagine it does down south. Until recently (had to change methods due to age), my preferred method was tracking. I'd follow a set of big tracks for days, miles... and that's only possible in the big woods up north where I wouldn't run into a fence, or no trespassing signs on the track, and I'd have snow cover to make it easy. Up in Mercer area, seemed like it snowed every day off Lake Superior.

Exactly this....

His name is Kazinski, Kozinski, Krawinski... something like that. Begins with a "K", ends with a "ski". Irish guy.

He's also president of WI Bowhunters Assoc, so there's your reason why. WI Outdoor News keeps me filled in on this guy's antics. He's mentioned frequently in the "letters & commentaries" section.

Yeah, I'm down south so my experience has been that the public lands are totally overrun with locals. At the same time I don't want to be "That guy" and drive up north and start using your guys' public land up there. Maybe that's what I have to do though. We'll see.

Some friendly advice if you do come up north. If you find a great looking hunting spot and it's within 1/4 mile of a road, I can guaran-dam-tee you somebody else found it years ago, and there'll be someone, maybe several, camped out there at 4am come opening morning. Look for places away from well traveled roads to avoid being "that guy". The further you have to hike to find it, the less likely it is you'll run into another hunter. There's plenty of space in the national forests up north. Plus 2 big state forests, and numerous county forests. But the hunting pressure is concentrated within 1/4 mile of the roads. Beyond that, you'd think you were the only soul on the planet... especially come monday-wednesday.

That being said.. brings up another aspect to hunting up north... vehicle choice. Almost everyone has a 4x4 truck now. Some are shiney new mall crawlers, others are the real-deal woods trucks, with winches, and covered in "northwoods pinstriping" from brush-busting. It's hard to find a truck now without it being a 4x4. I remember back in the 70s / early 80s, it was the opposite. 2 wheel drive trucks, even rear wheel drive lead-sled sedans were the vehicles hunters used most. I realized in the early 70s that a 4x4 gave me far more hunting opportunities, because I could drive where most others couldn't, and most wouldn't walk that far either. Especially up north in a foot of snow. My 76 GMC K25 had a 4" lift, big ass mud tires, and a full set of chains. I could drive that beast through 2 feet of snow, or right over foot thick dead falls. I haven't been without 4 wheel drive since 1973. My current hunting vehicle will get me further into the woods than even most full sized pickups can, or will, go. 04 Wrangler Rubicon, permanent winch in front, smaller receiver hitch mounted winch in rear. I now drive to where I used to walk....far away from the crowds. A Jeep makes a nice ground blind too.  There's no parking lots up north for hunters, you park in the ditch. If you drive a mini-van, might as well stay home and play duck hunt on Nintendo instead.

That's true about almost everything being 4x4.  When I sold my 4x4 a couple years ago, I wanted a 2wd truck.  Hard to find.  I finally fould 1 at a dealer a ways from home.  The salesman was complaining that he had 4 2wd trucks and he was afraid he'd never get rid of them.  Worked out good for me - I offered to take 1 off his hands (for a drastic price reduction)  I just wasn't getting the use out of the 4x4, plus it was a HD 3/4 ton and rode like a lumber wagon without a load.  I used to take a 2wd up north to our camp without any problem - most of the time.  Fire lanes were OK and the road to the shack wasn't bad.  I figured if I got stuck with a 2wd, it wouldn't be too bad getting out, but if I got a 4x4 stuck, I'd be screwed.  Kept me from doing dumb things.

My 2 wheel drive Ford E250 work truck would get stuck driving over a snow cone on July 4th on a black top road.

I have gotten a 4x4 stuck. It only happened once, won't happen again. I came upon a downed tree across a logging road, foot of snow on the ground, I was first one in there, no other tracks. I couldn't get around it, had to back my way out... about a mile & half.  After a few hundred yards I said fuck this... I tried to turn around in a wide spot. My 98 GMC 3/4 ton extended cab, 8' bed, is almost as long as a school bus. I'd have to get off into the ditch a little bit, but that's what 4x4 is for, right? Wrong... turns out it was freshly thawed muck under the snow in that ditch, front end sank when my front wheels went in, now frame was on edge of gravel road. I did have a shovel. I was able to get it out after about an hour of digging under the hung up frame. It was spring turkey season, day after a big April snowstorm, but I had a tag and I was going. Not a soul around, I was the only dumbass out there. If I had a 2 wheel drive, I wouldn't have gotten stuck... I'd be home in bed sleeping.

I made up my mind it wouldn't happen again. I'd be better prepared. The chain saw goes with on every trip to clear a path through those downed trees, and I put a front receiver hitch in the front bumper, got a Superwinch LP8500 on a receiver hitch mount, and converted a set of 4 guage, 25' jumper cables into a power cord so I can use it in front or rear hitch. I'm in the woods enough to warrant the cost.

Now I mostly use a Jeep, which also has winches for front & rear. 9,000lb Warn on permanent front mount, 4,000lb on a receiver hitch mount for the rear, which rides next to the chainsaw in the rear of the Jeep when I'm going in the woods.  

Wouldn't a D-9 Cat be cheaper?

Winches I could buy without the wife finding out. A D-9 Cat would attract her attention.

You ARE a sneaky one!

We've been married 48 years... she just lets me think I fooled her sometimes.

Survey Results have been published.

Looking at those results, it would appear that the survey was flooded with a whole bunch of PETA and Sierra Club folks.  I'm very surprised by many of the polling outcomes. It would appear that there has to be a larger voting audience than just sportsmen.

Yup. But you'll have that with any public online survey. Look at GD's "fire mission" response to gun control polls, which don't even mean anything.

The only real surprises for me are #1-7. I thought the No votes would crush the yes. Maybe that is a reflection of PETA types, I hope so. Because I didn't realize that many people liked wounding 5 times as many animals than they kill cleanly, by using "non-toxic" shot (non-toxic = steel...because not many will pay $3 per trigger pull for bismuth & tungsten, or copper).

I was equally surprised to see the almost universal opposition to any extension of the traditional nine day deer season.

If they are worried about declining hunter numbers and overpopulated deer, doubling to tripling the price of ammo will drive tons of guys away. Hell there's probably a big chunk of hunters who wouldn't waste a "good bullet" on a doe

Responded in time.

Same. I expected that to be a sure thing. I was happy to see a Spring Bear season and an earlier start to Turkey win though.

Now, what are the odds they listen to/follow the results?