Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page Hometown » Iowa
Site Notices
Posted: 12/3/2017 6:25:07 PM EDT
Any of you Outdoors Men and Women have any issues with the DNR attempting to confiscate suppressors for not carrying your Form4 on you.

I am getting some interesting phone calls about an email from someone at the State level directing DNR Officers in the field to do such things?

This is nothing short of harassment and not proper handling of the situation.  Yes LE can ask you to produce a copy of your Form4 for verification purposes but if you cannot you have 24hrs in which to do so without punishment or confiscation.

Please let me know if anyone here has had it happen to them or have heard of such things.

Thank you
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 9:32:43 PM EDT
[#1]
It's a tax document.  Where does it say they can see my form 4/1 without a warrant?  Do I have 24 hours to show my tax returns to the DNR when they request it?
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 11:26:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's a tax document.  Where does it say they can see my form 4/1 without a warrant?  Do I have 24 hours to show my tax returns to the DNR when they request it?
View Quote
It's actually more than just a tax document, it's verification that you lawfully posses the controlled item in question. Friends of mine carry the original with them, I just carry a color copy and keep the original in the vault at home.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 3:15:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It's actually more than just a tax document, it's verification that you lawfully posses the controlled item in question. Friends of mine carry the original with them, I just carry a color copy and keep the original in the vault at home.
View Quote
Still there is nothing in Iowa law that says the DNR has the right to demand papers or seize the can.  You need proper paperwork to legally drive a car too.  You can't be pulled over just for being seen driving.  It might be easier to comply with the request but they have no legal authority to demand your paperwork.  The only agencies that do are the ATF and the IRS.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 8:29:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 1:07:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Here's some easy reading on this subject.  Should clear it right up.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103#
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 10:02:56 AM EDT
[#6]
DNR and law enforcement officers have great latitude in their decisions to stop and inquire about documentation. If you are seen hunting or fishing, even on private property, they can stop you and request you produce your lisence to be engaged in such activities. That could  include the lawful possession of any class 3 items you might have with you at the time.

My advice to anyone carrying a legal class 3 item with them is to always have at least a photo copy of your ATF forms. Standing only on your rights to privacy can get very expensive if you're not.
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 11:12:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Any of you Outdoors Men and Women have any issues with the DNR attempting to confiscate suppressors for not carrying your Form4 on you.

I am getting some interesting phone calls about an email from someone at the State level directing DNR Officers in the field to do such things?

This is nothing short of harassment and not proper handling of the situation.  Yes LE can ask you to produce a copy of your Form4 for verification purposes but if you cannot you have 24hrs in which to do so without punishment or confiscation.

Please let me know if anyone here has had it happen to them or have heard of such things.

Thank you
View Quote
Have you seen this email or can you get a copy?  I would like to send it along to the Iowa Firearms Coalition and let their attorney take a look at it for an opinion.
thanks
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 7:52:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Hello Deltagunner7994,

The Iowa Firearms Coalition is now aware of at least one instance where a DNR Conservation Officer has asserted authority to seize a suppressor if the possessor can't prove legal possession by presenting a Form 4 with a tax stamp affixed. The individual was hunting with an approved caliber and suppressor attached when a conservation officer asked to inspect the weapon and see proof of ownership. Neither state nor federal law requires such presentation, and DNR officials now acknowledge that fact. Iowa Firearms Coalition representatives have addressed this incident with DNR officials and believe it was an instance of confusion in the field.

We will continue to monitor the situation as Iowa's firearms deer hunting season continues for the next two weeks. In the meantime, if you or someone you know plans to hunt deer with a suppressor we strongly recommend the following:
Those who possess a suppressor or SBR should keep a photo of Form 4 on your cell phone.
Make a photocopy of Form 4 and keep it in your gun case for the same purpose
Keep the original Form 4 in a safe location. Do not take it to the field.
Keep a non-confrontational attitude if questioned.
If you are hunting and have a similar interaction with a DNR Conservation Officer, please make the Iowa Firearms Coalition aware of it. When state agents overstep, we can use our knowledge of the law and organizational resources to keep them in check.  We also want to make sure you have the critical information you need if and when you're confronted by an overzealous officer. This is yet another example of how IFC serves you and another reason to be an IFC member. If you're a hunter or knows someone that hunts, please share this information. The last thing we want is for our members to find themselves in trouble.

Have a safe hunt and thank you for supporting the Iowa Firearms Coalition!
View Quote
Sounds like it was an isolated incident and is resolved. Thanks again to the IFC.
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 9:15:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Sounds like it was an isolated incident and is resolved. Thanks again to the IFC.
View Quote
I spent a decent chunk of my day dealing with this non-sense. For now it seems as if this is an isolated incident, but it's important that we know if more cases are playing out.

Isolated incident or not, this can still be a 'teaching moment' as they say. As firearms owners we have to be perennially on point. If you own a suppressor, or even have a Permit to Carry, it pays to be familiar with the laws you're expected to abide by. Do yourself a favor and brush up on the legal code from time to time -- "I heard in the gun shop/Facebook/ARFCOM that the law is _____." -- that is not what you want to fall back on when you find yourself face to face with a misguided LEO. Here's the link to Chapter 724 of the Iowa legal code it covers the majority (but not all) of gun laws in Iowa.

Not trying to get overly preachy but this could have easily gone a vastly different direction had the suppressor owner not been keyed in on the law. Let's all learn from this and help others do the same.

IFC's gone through the work to translate the legaleese into easy to digest layman's terms. That's in addition to getting cans legalized in the first place. If you're an Iowan and you own a suppressor there's simply no reason you should not be an IFC member.

/rant

Thanks everyone. Stay sharp.
Kurt
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 10:27:10 PM EDT
[#10]
It sounds like your DNR needs to receive some training on possession and documentation of class 3 items. You are certainly not required to carry the originals. Anybody who carries the original forms and stamps in the field is a moron for risking the destruction of those forms. Those documents can NEVER be replaced with real stamps, only certified copies if the ATF can find their copies. There is at least one case of someone losing their originals and the ATF not being able to find copies, which resulted in the surrender of some machine guns.
Link Posted: 12/6/2017 8:03:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Thank you for spending your day yesterday dealing with that Kurt. I am extremely grateful for all the hard work you and everyone at the IFC has done for us.
Link Posted: 12/10/2017 6:14:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

IFC's gone through the work to translate the legaleese into easy to digest layman's terms. That's in addition to getting cans legalized in the first place. If you're an Iowan and you own a suppressor there's simply no reason you should not be an IFC member.

/rant

Thanks everyone. Stay sharp.
Kurt
View Quote
Fixed.
Link Posted: 12/12/2017 10:31:36 AM EDT
[#13]
I'm happy to report that I've heard of no instances of a DNR officer harassing any deer hunters over suppressor usage/paperwork during the first weekend of second "shotgun" season.

Thanks for helping get the word out everyone!
Link Posted: 12/12/2017 10:47:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fixed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

IFC's gone through the work to translate the legaleese into easy to digest layman's terms. That's in addition to getting cans legalized in the first place. If you're an Iowan and you own a suppressor there's simply no reason you should not be an IFC member.

/rant

Thanks everyone. Stay sharp.
Kurt
Fixed.
Haha. Much appreciated Tim!

Our volunteers do a ton of great work (much of which goes unseen), but "selling ourselves" and asking for donations is something I admit we do a pretty poor job of. Personally, I'm not one to ask for charity or beg for handouts, which is fine on a personal level but it's different on an organizational level. Money makes the world go round and membership sales are IFC's chief source of revenue. Pushing harder for people to join IFC and doing a better job of making a case for why someone should join is an area I'm trying improve on (without going full IGO ). All that said, you have no idea how satisfying it is to have other people, not in IFC leadership, advocating for people to join the org. I take a great deal of pride in the work that our people do, and knowing that other's see value in it too is extremely fulfilling. So thanks for helping spread the good word Tim!
Link Posted: 12/13/2017 1:50:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Haha. Much appreciated Tim!

Our volunteers do a ton of great work (much of which goes unseen), but "selling ourselves" and asking for donations is something I admit we do a pretty poor job of. Personally, I'm not one to ask for charity or beg for handouts, which is fine on a personal level but it's different on an organizational level. Money makes the world go round and membership sales are IFC's chief source of revenue. Pushing harder for people to join IFC and doing a better job of making a case for why someone should join is an area I'm trying improve on (without going full IGO ). All that said, you have no idea how satisfying it is to have other people, not in IFC leadership, advocating for people to join the org. I take a great deal of pride in the work that our people do, and knowing that other's see value in it too is extremely fulfilling. So thanks for helping spread the good word Tim!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

IFC's gone through the work to translate the legaleese into easy to digest layman's terms. That's in addition to getting cans legalized in the first place. If you're an Iowan and you own a suppressor there's simply no reason you should not be an IFC member.

/rant

Thanks everyone. Stay sharp.
Kurt
Fixed.
Haha. Much appreciated Tim!

Our volunteers do a ton of great work (much of which goes unseen), but "selling ourselves" and asking for donations is something I admit we do a pretty poor job of. Personally, I'm not one to ask for charity or beg for handouts, which is fine on a personal level but it's different on an organizational level. Money makes the world go round and membership sales are IFC's chief source of revenue. Pushing harder for people to join IFC and doing a better job of making a case for why someone should join is an area I'm trying improve on (without going full IGO ). All that said, you have no idea how satisfying it is to have other people, not in IFC leadership, advocating for people to join the org. I take a great deal of pride in the work that our people do, and knowing that other's see value in it too is extremely fulfilling. So thanks for helping spread the good word Tim!
I fully support IFC (became a lifer recently actually), and try to point out all the good that has come from IFC when I can.  I don't push hard for people to go become paying members, but I try to plant the seed.  I'm not positive, but I think I got a couple guys at work to sign up.
Link Posted: 1/29/2018 9:59:36 PM EDT
[#16]
So back when this happened, I sent a quick email to the DNR asking what their policy was on demanding to see form 4/1.  I never heard anything back and didn't follow up because it sounded like it was handled by the IFC.  Today I received the following email.  I plan to call him back in the next day or two. I'll update when I talk to him.

Mr. DeltaGunner7994,

Thank you for your inquiry with the Iowa DNR.  I apologize for the delay in getting back to you with an answer.  At this time we have forwarded your question to the Iowa Attorney General's Office and are awaiting guidance and direction from them.

If you have any further questions or would like to visit more in depth please fee free to contact me at 712-254-0550.

Brian L. Smith | SW District 3 Law Enforcement Supervisor

Iowa Department of Natural Resources

C 712-254-0550 | 57744 Lewis RD Lewis, IA 51544

www.iowadnr.gov
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/30/2018 4:01:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Well we all know we will get a fair shake from ole Uncle Tom!!
Page Hometown » Iowa
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top