Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Posted: 3/19/2022 9:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lavaspit11]
Ive used Nashville Armory several times.  I love the shop, but the armorer's can be pretty ham-fisted.  They scratched the shit out of my Daniel Defense, and mauled my Optic AND my mount while mounting an LVPO.  Glue everywhere and stripped threads, etc.  Cheap Primary Arms, expensive ADM.  Just a hot mess.  I took it down and all the screws were as tight as the guy could get them - no torque settings.  Couldn't believe it.

Who do you guys recommend?  I;m on an MC so somewhat limited in radius or Id go out to Precision Guncrafters, etc

While I'm at it, does anyone local want to hang out and show me how to zero an LVPO on the range, and just do some shooting?  DM me.  I need a ride but I buy beers / lunch.
Link Posted: 3/19/2022 10:05:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Just curious, why do you need a gunsmith to put an optic in a mount?  Should be pretty straight forward.  You can eyeball the level and estimate the torque if you don’t have a torque wrench. Don’t tighten them all at once and gradually tighten each screw in a criss cross pattern like you’re tightening lugs on a car wheel.  Use some vibratite because that stuff is amazing and you’re done.  

As far as zero goes, most people use 50/200.  I usually get on paper at 25 and hit about 1.5” low before moving out to 50 for final adjustments.
Link Posted: 3/19/2022 10:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lavaspit11] [#2]
Yes this is the  standard answer I get.

I know how to do the basics, and Ive done it plenty.

I really enjoy the full treatment that you (can / should) get at an armorer, especially if you're going to use super precision mounts.

There's torpedo leveling, but I don't have a plumb line or a bore sight, etc.

Its the feeling you get when they hand it over.

All that said, Nashville armory did a way worse job than I would have done.  I mean they damaged the hardware.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 12:17:27 AM EDT
[#3]
If it’s the standard answer, it’s probably not far off from reality.  At most, this requires a scope level, torque wrench, and some optional thread locker. You don’t even need the rifle in the same room.

Retail gun shops with gunsmiths unfuck broken guns and slap on accessories. I have no idea what you would do with a plum level or a bore sighting tool to mount an optic in a mount.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 10:28:02 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't have a good answer for you.  That is first.  But I do have some insights.

I spend a lot of time at a public and private ranges.  I see a lot.  And what you describe is not uncommon.  Not the worst, but the most consistent, is the "bore sighting" service provided at Bass Pro.  I have seen 40-50 new rifles with new scopes that were "bore sighted" at Bass Pro.  Not a single one was within a foot at 50 yards.  My guess is the fasteners were not installed correctly either.

I see a response to your question with something like "guessing at torque values" and using an eyeball to position a reticle.  I see a lot of this as well.  With the predictable results.

Back to your question.  If there were enough people who thought like you and were willing to value my time at about $50/hour and support my fixed and variable costs, I would transfer about $1,000 of my specialty tools into an LLC, purchase liability and theft insurance, lease a store front, open a web site, and begin to build a business.  But, there are not enough people like you.  There are people who don't see the value in doing it right, can do it right themself, or think they are doing it right.

Sorry.  No help.

Link Posted: 3/20/2022 11:48:50 AM EDT
[#5]
What you seek will not be found in a Nashville gunshop.

Nashville Armory is for rich folks who don't know what right is but have plenty of money. And for people who pay their prices for guns, bless their heart.

I would suggest you give Royal Range a try as it's going to be the best around for gunsmithing rifles and most other projects. If you have a 1911 issue then Guns & Leather in Greenbriar is your place.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 1:04:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xciapup:
I see a response to your question with something like "guessing at torque values" and using an eyeball to position a reticle.  I see a lot of this as well.  With the predictable results.
View Quote

It’s a Primary Arms LPVO in an ADM mount on an AR.  He can probably get away with it for something this basic.  But to your point, for the money he’s throwing away on a smith to throw it together, he can just buy an Ariska level and a Wheeler torque driver and get “that feeling” on his own.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 5:57:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 7:13:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xciapup:
I don't have a good answer for you.  That is first.  But I do have some insights.

I spend a lot of time at a public and private ranges.  I see a lot.  And what you describe is not uncommon.  Not the worst, but the most consistent, is the "bore sighting" service provided at Bass Pro.  I have seen 40-50 new rifles with new scopes that were "bore sighted" at Bass Pro.  Not a single one was within a foot at 50 yards.  My guess is the fasteners were not installed correctly either.

I see a response to your question with something like "guessing at torque values" and using an eyeball to position a reticle.  I see a lot of this as well.  With the predictable results.

Back to your question.  If there were enough people who thought like you and were willing to value my time at about $50/hour and support my fixed and variable costs, I would transfer about $1,000 of my specialty tools into an LLC, purchase liability and theft insurance, lease a store front, open a web site, and begin to build a business.  But, there are not enough people like you.  There are people who don't see the value in doing it right, can do it right themself, or think they are doing it right.

Sorry.  No help.

View Quote


This has been the answer I have been waiting or for ages.

If you decide to form a company, DM me.  I am no firearms expert - nut I am an aficionado, and I am a brand creative director.  I know a lot about strategy, positioning, identity, and generally creating businesses that have passion and skill at their core.  TN is friendly towards creating LLCs, but I know a lot of thought goes into this sort of thing   You have to figure out WHO the audience is, or, create them.  Nashville armory outsources their Glock stippling.  They have 8.5 x 11 printouts from the company, which looks like a garage band deal.  Putting otu the word to shops might be a way to begin.  But the shops have to admit they are not precision mounting, they are just "mounting".

People who care about Optics and true zero, tolerances and machining, the way parts mate, etc - are sort of like audiophiles: they're out there.  They're just quiet, and hard to spot.

Founding a small business aside, if you live near me, I would gladly pay your rate to have you do my install.  Id also come to your shop, wherever it is.

To the latter point of the cheap scope and doing it myself:  my next build will be an NX8 on the same ADM or Geissele - or perhaps a 1,93" ADM.  I think the purpose-driven consultation has to be part of this service.  "What scope are you buying for what rifle and what mount, and for what application".  

Optical Applications, LLC

In any case, Id love to have you do th work, especially if I can sit in on it.

I bet NOBODY out there who has mounted their own scope outside a smith has a true zero plum-lined to the earths core.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 7:40:56 PM EDT
[#9]
By the way, the gunsmith wrote me back:

"I am the gunsmith at Nashville Armroy (SP?). I have received a forwarded email from our general into email with some issues you’re having. I am curious to see the scratches of the mount & scope as well as the “epoxy” stated in your email. I am confused since epoxy is NOT a ever used or needed to simply mount & install scopes. If you would please send a few pictures. Thank you."

Here's my reply:

Hey Bryan,

Epoxy wasn't the correct word.  But some kind of fixative / glue was used.  I got most of it off, but not all.

The scratched scope is on its way to Primary Arms.  I didn't take a photo.  It was slight, but visible - a straight line. If they take issue with it, I'll send you that image.  Should be ok....I think.

The rings on the ADM are pretty stripped, and I am going to replace those for sure:  https://www.opticsplanet.com/american-defense-manufacturing-riflescope-rings.html

In any case, Here are the rings:

https://imgur.com/a/uOT3GAs

There didn't seem to be consistent torque values across all the screws - they were just torqued to the max.

I'm not trying to ride you or get free shit, man.  I know that the SLx isn't an inexpensive scope.  I think you just set it up not to budge when firing.  I am confident I'll get a refund.  But these ADM mounts are becoming impossible to get.
The cost of mounting the scope and attaching the Warcomp was $90, in case you don't remember me.

I'm sure we can work it out.

Thanks, have a good weekend."

Check out the photos and let me know what you guys think.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 7:47:03 PM EDT
[#10]
You’re in the right to complain.  That’s ridiculous.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 8:47:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Dudes gonna say I did it.

I remember him saying "lots of ____(glue name - TX, something?)  Dont shoot it for a day.

Now hes coming at me like "epoxy should NEVER be used.

If glue should never be used then why have I used an entire bottle of Hoppe's and have an alarming cough and a suttuer?
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 9:40:56 PM EDT
[#12]
It’s not called epoxy or glue.  It’s thread locker.  If something is there, it’s probably Loctite.

That said, if you paid them to mount it, why did you take it apart?  Why would you check the torque, and how did you if you don’t have a torque wrench?  And how did you not notice the damage before you did?  

Honestly, now I think you accidentally did it and you don’t realize it.  No remotely reputable shop could screw up an optic mount that badly.  It’s 8 screws.  They do this all day.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 10:19:20 PM EDT
[#13]
I only had night sites put on my Glock by them but I was happy with the service at echo 3 armoury in chapel hill.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 11:03:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bodybagger:
The best gunsmith in the Nashville area is Jeff Walle at Guns and Leather in Greenbrier.
View Quote



Came to post this. Great guy and spent some time getting my front sight installed on my sig. Spent 20min getting it perfect and charged me $0.

Link Posted: 3/22/2022 3:02:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By asu174:
It’s not called epoxy or glue.  It’s thread locker.  If something is there, it’s probably Loctite.

That said, if you paid them to mount it, why did you take it apart?  Why would you check the torque, and how did you if you don’t have a torque wrench?  And how did you not notice the damage before you did?  

Honestly, now I think you accidentally did it and you don’t realize it.  No remotely reputable shop could screw up an optic mount that badly.  It’s 8 screws.  They do this all day.
View Quote


It sure looks and behaves like glue.  No, its not the threadlocker on the factory screws - it is all over the inner rings on the scope side, and was all over the scope itself.  I was told not to fire it becasue it was "drying", and he did not mean thread locker.  See images.

I took it apart because the scope was no good.  I also noticed that it was scratched.  

I checked the torque values by feel - they were WY over torqued.  I have a Vortex torque wrench.  Removing screws cannot strip them.  I did notice the damage, just not at the shop.  I was making several key purchases and assumed the very best of the armorer, becasue "they do this all day".

One actual armorer has responded to this thread, and I suggest you visit that comment to get a better feel for this subject.

For my part all I can say is that once we could expect excellence for our dollar, and now we cannot.  Its that simple.  if you don't know why that is, there are far too many dots for me to connect for you in a firearms forum.

Why people in this community insist on blaming one another - the consumers - and mishaps and disappointment is beyond behind me.  We area all overwhelmingly consumers, not experts, not manufacturers, with a great deal of influence when we act in harmony instead of belittling each others grievances.
Link Posted: 3/22/2022 4:13:42 PM EDT
[#16]
I've done quite a few 1911 triggers and built my share of ARs.  I've even "co-built" a ridiculously nice 2011 from parts with a friend who is gifted with a 1960's era bridgeport mill.  I've set up some really nice scopes on some VERY nice rifles.  Point is, I've spent a lot of time on the bench working on guns.  If what you say about the overtorque (most scope rings are in the 18-20 in-lb range), finish damage and use of "adhesives" is to maintain scope orientation are true, you should ask for your money back, especially if their gorilla torqueing the scope rings deformed the tube of your scope.  Be interesting to see what the manufacturer says about that.

One of the beautiful things about today's firearms industry is that you can build an AR from parts in an hour for about $500.  You can scuff it, scrape it, over-torque it, break it, and then fix it for peanuts.  More people will become at least functionally proficient with "America's firearm" because of this.  You're in rare class of people who probably can, but choose not to because what you're really seeking is the "concierge service" of handing your gun to someone and having them hand it back to you clean and ready to go.  I get that too.   The fact that you were disappointed in that experience is a mark against Nashville Armory, because all else aside, you paid for an "experience" that they did not deliver, and now you're having to deal with consequences.  That is a shame.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/23/2022 10:40:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kcobean:
I've done quite a few 1911 triggers and built my share of ARs.  I've even "co-built" a ridiculously nice 2011 from parts with a friend who is gifted with a 1960's era bridgeport mill.  I've set up some really nice scopes on some VERY nice rifles.  Point is, I've spent a lot of time on the bench working on guns.  If what you say about the overtorque (most scope rings are in the 18-20 in-lb range), finish damage and use of "adhesives" is to maintain scope orientation are true, you should ask for your money back, especially if their gorilla torqueing the scope rings deformed the tube of your scope.  Be interesting to see what the manufacturer says about that.

One of the beautiful things about today's firearms industry is that you can build an AR from parts in an hour for about $500.  You can scuff it, scrape it, over-torque it, break it, and then fix it for peanuts.  More people will become at least functionally proficient with "America's firearm" because of this.  You're in rare class of people who probably can, but choose not to because what you're really seeking is the "concierge service" of handing your gun to someone and having them hand it back to you clean and ready to go.  I get that too.   The fact that you were disappointed in that experience is a mark against Nashville Armory, because all else aside, you paid for an "experience" that they did not deliver, and now you're having to deal with consequences.  That is a shame.

Good luck.
View Quote


Yes that's exactly right, and I think its an even rarer  class that understands experience design.  Most people come after me for "not being able to do it myself".  I think its more accurate to say that if I went to SDI for a year or two, I still would not be "the best".  And where it comes to products that are designed to perform a very specific, sometimes life preserving function,  I like the experience of having things  set up the best that they can be.  The confidence that comes from knowing something was just in deft hands.  

I mounted a scope on  a precision  rifle, and it was fun.  I  followed the torque specs, used levels, got the bell as low to the rail  as  possible.  And  then  I took it l down and had it done again because my tiny mistakes at 1000  yards become feet.

Anyway, Nashville's manager said  to keep  him posted.  PA got their scope back  today.   i am just waiting for that "what did you do to our scope"  email.

I  called Guns & Leather.  Phil was surprised that anyone  was giving him compliments  in the  Internets.  I  hope to sell and trade enough shit  that I can pick up an  NX8 and try this all again.
Link Posted: 3/24/2022 11:10:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lavaspit11:


Yes that's exactly right, and I think its an even rarer  class that understands experience design.  Most people come after me for "not being able to do it myself".  I think its more accurate to say that if I went to SDI for a year or two, I still would not be "the best".  And where it comes to products that are designed to perform a very specific, sometimes life preserving function,  I like the experience of having things  set up the best that they can be.  The confidence that comes from knowing something was just in deft hands.  

I mounted a scope on  a precision  rifle, and it was fun.  I  followed the torque specs, used levels, got the bell as low to the rail  as  possible.  And  then  I took it l down and had it done again because my tiny mistakes at 1000  yards become feet.

Anyway, Nashville's manager said  to keep  him posted.  PA got their scope back  today.   i am just waiting for that "what did you do to our scope"  email.

I  called Guns & Leather.  Phil was surprised that anyone  was giving him compliments  in the  Internets.  I  hope to sell and trade enough shit  that I can pick up an  NX8 and try this all again.
View Quote


Well, but what makes you think the "gunsmith" you are giving your rifle/scope to is the "best"?  Do you really think a run of the mill gunsmith is going to "followed the torque specs, used levels, got the bell as low to the rail as possible"  or is he , like at my sporting goods store, bolt down the rings with a 3/8 ratchet, use a electric screwdriver for the ring screws and then stick a laser in front to boresight against a wall 20 ft away.  And then charge $100 for it.
Sometimes YOU have the deft hands and are "the best" and make less "tiny mistakes" than the "professional".

TYCOM
Link Posted: 3/24/2022 6:25:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TYCOM:


Well, but what makes you think the "gunsmith" you are giving your rifle/scope to is the "best"?  Do you really think a run of the mill gunsmith is going to "followed the torque specs, used levels, got the bell as low to the rail as possible"  or is he , like at my sporting goods store, bolt down the rings with a 3/8 ratchet, use a electric screwdriver for the ring screws and then stick a laser in front to boresight against a wall 20 ft away.  And then charge $100 for it.
Sometimes YOU have the deft hands and are "the best" and make less "tiny mistakes" than the "professional".

TYCOM
View Quote


It was certainly a big assumption.

Two observations I made about the gunsmith himself, and ignored:

1. I asked if he was familiar with the scope, at least as a brand, and he said no.  Primary Arms is not exactly an exotic brand.

2. He was morbidly obese.  I don't say this to be hurtful, I know a good deal about how the food industry behaves like and works with the pharmaceutical industry, and how difficult it is to contend with them and food compulsion in general.  That said, I think of a "deft" armorer as a mostly, if not entirely disciplined person.  I didn't want to acknowledge it, but the end result speaks volumes to my gut instinct: it was as much of a sloppy mess as the man himself.

We are very strongly discouraged from giving credence to our "unconscious bias", and I wonder if that isn't a dangerous thing.  Our instincts took thousands of years to cultivate, and we use them to navigate a massive spectrum of interactions - to stay safe, to seek the highest capabilities in the tribe, to frown upon subtly errant behavior that might prove lethal, etc.  But somehow over the last handful of mere months this mode of thinking has become all but outlawed.  

I recently was defrauded by a man who owns an electric motorcycle startup.  My wife was on the conference call with us, and afterward she said she didn't want me to work with him becasue she didn't like the gauge of his hoop earrings.  I told her she was being credulous  $50K in stolen brand strategy and ID later, I now dismiss hoop earrings above a reasonably on sight.

The smith was well out of sorts, and my rifle is now out of commission.  That's a pretty serious consequence if you think of a rifle as being the primary means of defending a household.  yes, I have iron sights.  But still, as

Not sure where I am going with this except to say give snobbery and pre-judgement a chance where it comes to important matters.  Condemn it publicly, sure, but employ it strategically, confidentially.  I think all protective men and shrewd women of a certain age already operate this way and just conceal it from the public eye.  To think of life as entirely hierarchical and stratified can be scary and disheartening.  Its even easy to sympathize with those who want to "beak the wheel".  But in the end, this stratification is designed to encourage you to permeate upwards, get better at what you do, how you think, and who you select as collaborators.

My advise to myself: slow down.  Ask who is doing the work.  Find out about them.  Take hesitation and body sensations very seriously - more seriously than your conscious mind, and what you are being told.  Determine, as you say, if what you are asking of another can be better accomplished on your own, by investing in your own edification.

In this case, gunsmithing at what i consider to be a high enough level just isn't in the cards.  Not right now.  I can have only so many hobbies, and master only so many practices.  I would rather master one or two things in life than be middling at 3 or 4.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 12:11:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Just to wrap  this little escapade up:

Nashville armory refunded the armoers fee and paid e out for my ADm mount.  The GM was  a real champ about it.

I still recommend Nashville Armory v er hihly.  FFL fees are  a smidge high but what an you do, its Nashangeles.

Same GM walked me through some hoslter options and showed me his rig, got me thinking.  Hoe to have the coin to train there  soon.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top