I heard there is a ballot proposal for abortion on the radio. Is it on this Tuesday's Aug 2nd ballot or Novemeber's ballot? I cant find any info.

November maybe, it's not on my ballot for tomorrow.

If there is a ballot initiative, the Rs will fuck it up like they did with weed.

It's going to be on November so that stretchin' get re-elected.  Same as how weed helped her the first go round.

I believe there will be 3 new initiatives on the ballot on November, and all need to be voted down (no).

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/08/defeated-governor-candidate-kelley-pivots-to-attacking-abortion-voting-proposals.html

Ryan Kelley never publicly conceded in the Republican race for Michigan governor, but the fourth-place finisher from two weeks ago says he is pivoting to his next calling: defeating two liberal ballot proposals in November.

Kelley told supporters Wednesday in a Facebook Live video that he formed a ballot question committee to raise money against Reproductive Freedom for All and Promote the Vote 2022, two proposed constitutional amendments for the Nov. 8 ballot.

RFFA would guarantee the right to abortion and other reproductive rights in Michigan, as a post-Roe v. Wade legal fight could end in a state ban from 1931 taking effect. PTV would expand voting rights and access, including nine days of early voting, prohibiting harassment while voting and allowing someone to permanently vote absentee.






Yes, vote Democrat Lite, stand for nothing.

OFFS.  

Supporting abortion doesn't make one a democrat.

Aside from that, women aren't property, and those without uteri have no business decreeing what those WITH do with them.

The other ballot proposals are probably crap. But why is freedom so scary? The supreme court made the wrong move.

All three need to get voted down.





Except, you know, there is a baby that is getting killed.

No, not so much.

You champion sending our youth to invade and kill people in sovereign countries minding their own business up until they had to fight an invading and occupying force.

And those folks were actually ALIVE and functional members of their society. It's okay to kill, because the government says so.

Yet you get so butthurt over a parasitic glob of cells that's NOT alive, and try to decree that women have no say in the matter. Even go so far as to try for imprisonment or execution. Because apparently killing adults is okay when you say so as a response to abortion.

If abortion IS killing, then killing is killing. If it's so bad, you need to be against it across the board.

You can't be a hypocrite here, especially when it affects you in no way shape or form. You're not a woman.

Yep.
A classic hypocrisy of the Right vs Left--'Force' the woman to have the child, cut the welfare programs made to help said woman, send child off to war at 18

And before anyone squawks "wHaT aBoUt AdOpTiOn", well I do an annual toy donation to a charity in metro Detroit that provides toys for all the UN adoptive kids, and have yet to be turned away, so I don't want to hear it.

I am against outlawing most things, I try to be consistent with my philosophy.

To "outlaw" abortion, society will charge the Doctor's and the women who have participated in that "crime". I am not for that. I want my tax dollars used to fight real crime, not voluntary associations.

Most states outlaw abortions after the fetus becomes viable outside the womb, I okay with that. I am also okay with eliminating welfare, people who need assistance should have to work for it. Let's institute "Work Fair" instead. Society should get a service for the assistance we provide.

Thieves, murderers, rapists all need prison time. That's were tax dollars belong.

The foster system in America is a fate worse than death for many.

I believe this post was in response to me saying abortion is killing a baby, so I will try and respond to all the different points you posted.


Except, it is a new human.  Once the sperm and egg come together, new unique DNA is formed that is neither the father's nor the mother's but a part of both.  New unique DNA equals a new human being.


Not sure were this is coming from, none of the posts in this thread ever mentioned war, let a lone championed it.


Again, no one ever sad this.


A parasite is defined as "An organism that lives and feeds on or in an organism of a different species and causes harm to its host."  A baby is not of a different species than their mother.


Again, no one said this.  Being against killing babies, does not mean you want to kill adults.


Abortion is killing, and agreed, with the only exception of self defense of yourself, your family or others.


A hypocrite is defined as "a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion" or "a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings".  Since I said killing babies is wrong, I believe killing babies is wrong, and I have never killed nor been part of killing a baby, hypocrite is the wrong term to describe myself.

It absolutely does affect me, it is affecting people I know and live around, people in our state and our country.  It affects the value people place on other people's lives and the importance and repercussions of their decisions.  Being a woman does not give your opinion more value than a mans.  A baby is not made by a woman alone.  There are choices and actions that both a father and mother take to create a baby.  Everyone has a say.

After all this, there seems to be something else happening here, it might be good to try and talk to someone who can help you work through some of your concerns.  If you want to talk, IM me. I am 100% serious.    

my mere existence on this earth repudiates everything you have merrily expounded. consider that.

Attached File

This, tell all your friends all the proposals are just to give dems a clear path to cheat as much as they do in Cali. If they want higher taxes, less freedom and fascist policies this is what they'll get if they for them.

I would like to see the actual language, not an opinion produced by a lobbying group.

I will not vote for any bill that spends tax dollars on "gender affirming anything".

How did the supreme court make the wrong move? They absolutely made the right move. Whether you are for or against abortion being legal, there is no constitutional right to an abortion. And that's all they decided with that decision. They didn't say whether there SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be a constitutional right to an abortion. Do you have a copy of the constitution? I do, and I can't find it in there, and apparently neither could they. The premise on which roe was decided was a very loose interpretation of another amendment in which the justices of the time thought would also cover abortion, but it was a very broad interpretation and was very controversial and clear as mud. It was totally wrong, and even RBG, who was a very liberal and pro-choice justice agreed that Roe was not correctly decided and would eventually be overturned.

The supreme court did what was right because the supreme court doesn't have the power to create new constitutional rights that didn't previously exist like they did when Roe was decided. So they fixed the mistake that was previously made and put abortion back in the hands of the states. If enough people agree that it should be a federal constitutional right, then we as a country could pass a constitutional right like we did for other things, like ending slavery, allowing women to vote etc. But until that happens, abortion is not a constitutional right. It's not a matter of what you think, it's not in there, and it never was.

Read them and weep, the descriptions on the ballot tell almost nothing of the language actually in them;

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/elections/upcoming-election-information/voters/candidatesproposals

Thank you. I will vote accordingly - I got a sick feeling in my stomach reading that.

It is beyond disgusting;

FULL TEXT OF PROPOSED INITIATED LAW:

The full text of the proposal amending Article I to add Section 28 is as follows:

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 28 RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM

(1) EVERY INDIVIDUAL HAS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM, WHICH ENTAILS THE RIGHT TO MAKE AND EFFECTUATE DECISIONS ABOUT ALL MATTERS RELATING TO PREGNANCY, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO PRENATAL CARE, CHILDBIRTH, POSTPARTUM CARE, CONTRACEPTION, STERILIZATION, ABORTION CARE, MISCARRIAGE MANAGEMENT, AND INFERTILITY CARE.

AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM SHALL NOT BE DENIED, BURDENED, NOR INFRINGED UPON UNLESS JUSTIFIED BY A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST ACHIEVED BY THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE MEANS.

NOTWITHSTANDING THE ABOVE, THE STATE MAY REGULATE THE PROVISION OF ABORTION CARE AFTER FETAL VIABILITY, PROVIDED THAT IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHALL THE STATE PROHIBIT AN ABORTION THAT, IN THE PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT OF AN ATTENDING HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL, IS MEDICALLY INDICATED TO PROTECT THE LIFE OR PHYSICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH OF THE PREGNANT INDIVIDUAL.

(2) THE STATE SHALL NOT DISCRIMINATE IN THE PROTECTION OR ENFORCEMENT OF THIS FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT.

(3) THE STATE SHALL NOT PENALIZE, PROSECUTE, OR OTHERWISE TAKE ADVERSE ACTION AGAINST AN INDIVIDUAL BASED ON THEIR ACTUAL, POTENTIAL, PERCEIVED, OR ALLEGED PREGNANCY OUTCOMES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MISCARRIAGE, STILLBIRTH, OR ABORTION. NOR SHALL THE STATE PENALIZE, PROSECUTE, OR OTHERWISE TAKE ADVERSE ACTION AGAINST SOMEONE FOR AIDING OR ASSISTING A PREGNANT INDIVIDUAL IN EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM WITH THEIR VOLUNTARY CONSENT.

(4) FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION:

A STATE INTEREST IS "COMPELLING" ONLY IF IT IS FOR THE LIMITED PURPOSE OF PROTECTING THE HEALTH OF AN INDIVIDUAL SEEKING CARE, CONSISTENT WITH ACCEPTED CLINICAL STANDARDS OF PRACTICE AND EVIDENCE-BASED MEDICINE, AND DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THAT INDIVIDUAL'S AUTONOMOUS DECISION-MAKING. "FETAL VIABILITY" MEANS: THE POINT IN PREGNANCY WHEN, IN THE PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT OF AN ATTENDING HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL AND BASED ON THE PARTICULAR FACTS OF THE CASE, THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT LIKELIHOOD OF THE FETUS'S SUSTAINED SURVIVAL OUTSIDE THE UTERUS WITHOUT THE APPLICATION OF EXTRAORDINARY MEDICAL MEASURES.

(5) THIS SECTION SHALL BE SELF-EXECUTING. ANY PROVISION OF THIS SECTION HELD INVALID SHALL BE SEVERABLE FROM THE REMAINING PORTIONS OF THIS SECTION.

Provisions of existing constitution altered or abrogated by the proposal if adopted:
ARTICLE I
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

 2 Equal protection; discrimination.

Sec. 2. No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws; nor shall any person be denied the enjoyment of his civil or political rights or be discriminated against in the exercise thereof because of religion, race, color or national origin. The legislature shall implement this section by appropriate legislation.

 23 Enumeration of rights not to deny others.

Sec. 23. The enumeration in this constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 27 Human embryo and embryonic stem cell research.

Section 27. (1) Nothing in this section shall alter Michigan's current prohibition on human cloning. (2) To ensure that Michigan citizens have access to stem cell therapies and cures, and to ensure that physicians and researchers can conduct the most promising forms of medical research in this state, and that all such research is conducted safely and ethically, any research permitted under federal law on human embryos may be conducted in Michigan, subject to the requirements of federal law and only the following additional limitations and requirements: (a) No stem cells may be taken from a human embryo more than fourteen days after cell division begins; provided, however, that time during which an embryo is frozen does not count against this fourteen day limit. (b) The human embryos were created for the purpose of fertility treatment and, with voluntary and informed consent, documented in writing, the person seeking fertility treatment chose to donate the embryos for research; and (i) the embryos were in excess of the clinical need of the person seeking the fertility treatment and would otherwise be discarded unless they are used for research; or (ii) the embryos were not suitable for implantation and would otherwise be discarded unless they are used for research. (c) No person may, for valuable consideration, purchase or sell human embryos for stem cell research or stem cell therapies and cures. (d) All stem cell research and all stem cell therapies and cures must be conducted and provided in accordance with state and local laws of general applicability, including but not limited to laws concerning scientific and medical practices and patient safety and privacy, to the extent that any such laws do not: (i) prevent, restrict, obstruct, or discourage any stem cell research or stem cell therapies and cures that are permitted by the provisions of this section; or (ii) create disincentives for any person to engage in or otherwise associate with such research or therapies or cures. (3) Any provision of this section held unconstitutional shall be severable from the remaining portions of this section.
ARTICLE III
GENERAL GOVERNMENT

 7 Common law and statutes, continuance.

Sec. 7. The common law and the statute laws now in force, not repugnant to this constitution, shall remain in force until they expire by their own limitations, or are changed, amended or repealed.
ARTICLE IV
LEGISLATIVE BRANCH

 1 Legislative power.

Sec. 1. Except to the extent limited or abrogated by article IV, section 6 or article V, section 2, the legislative power of the State of Michigan is vested in a senate and a house of representatives.

 31 General appropriation bills; priority, statement of estimated revenue.

Sec. 31. The general appropriation bills for the succeeding fiscal period covering items set forth in the budget shall be passed or rejected in either house of the legislature before that house passes any appropriation bill for items not in the budget except bills supplementing appropriations for the current fiscal year's operation. Any bill requiring an appropriation to carry out its purpose shall be considered an appropriation bill. One of the general appropriation bills as passed by the legislature shall contain an itemized statement of estimated revenue by major source in each operating fund for the ensuing fiscal period, the total of which shall not be less than the total of all appropriations made from each fund in the general appropriation bills as passed.

 51 Public health and general welfare.

Sec. 51. The public health and general welfare of the people of the state are hereby declared to be matters of primary public concern. The legislature shall pass suitable laws for the protection and promotion of the public health.
ARTICLE V
EXECUTIVE BRANCH

 1 Executive power.

Sec. 1. Except to the extent limited or abrogated by article V, section 2, or article IV, section 6, the executive power is vested in the governor.

 18 Budget; general and deficiency appropriation bills.

Sec. 18. The governor shall submit to the legislature at a time fixed by law, a budget for the ensuing fiscal period setting forth in detail, for all operating funds, the proposed expenditures and estimated revenue of the state. Proposed expenditures from any fund shall not exceed the estimated revenue thereof. On the same date, the governor shall submit to the legislature general appropriation bills to embody the proposed expenditures and any necessary bill or bills to provide new or additional revenues to meet proposed expenditures. The amount of any surplus created or deficit incurred in any fund during the last preceding fiscal period shall be entered as an item in the budget and in one of the appropriation bills. The governor may submit amendments to appropriation bills to be offered in either house during consideration of the bill by that house, and shall submit bills to meet deficiencies in current appropriations.
ARTICLE VI
JUDICIAL BRANCH

 1 Judicial power in court of justice; divisions.

Sec. 1. Except to the extent limited or abrogated by article IV, section 6, or article V, section 2, the judicial power of the state is vested exclusively in one court of justice which shall be divided into one supreme court, one court of appeals, one trial court of general jurisdiction known as the circuit court, one probate court, and courts of limited jurisdiction that the legislature may establish by a two-thirds vote of the members elected to and serving in each house.

 28 Administrative action, review.

Sec. 28. All final decisions, findings, rulings and orders of any administrative officer or agency existing under the constitution or by law, which are judicial or quasi-judicial and affect private rights or licenses, shall be subject to direct review by the courts as provided by law. This review shall include, as a minimum, the determination whether such final decisions, findings, rulings and orders are authorized by law; and, in cases in which a hearing is required, whether the same are supported by competent, material and substantial evidence on the whole record. Findings of fact in workmen's compensation proceedings shall be conclusive in the absence of fraud unless otherwise provided by law.
ARTICLE VIII
EDUCATION

 5 University of Michigan, Michigan State University, Wayne State University; controlling boards.

Sec. 5. The regents of the University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Regents of the University of Michigan; the trustees of Michigan State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Trustees of Michigan State University; the governors of Wayne State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Governors of Wayne State University. Each board shall have general supervision of its institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. Each board shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution, be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote and preside at meetings of the board. The board of each institution shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years and who shall be elected as provided by law. The governor shall fill board vacancies by appointment. Each appointee shall hold office until a successor has been nominated and elected as provided by law.

 6 Other institutions of higher education, controlling boards.

Sec. 6. Other institutions of higher education established by law having authority to grant baccalaureate degrees shall each be governed by a board of control which shall be a body corporate. The board shall have general supervision of the institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. It shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution and be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote. The board may elect one of its members or may designate the president, to preside at board meetings. Each board of control shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years, not more than two of which shall expire in the same year, and who shall be appointed by the governor by and with the advice and consent of the senate. Vacancies shall be filled in like manner.

 7 Community and junior colleges; state board, members, terms, vacancies.

Sec. 7. The legislature shall provide by law for the establishment and financial support of public community and junior colleges which shall be supervised and controlled by locally elected boards. The legislature shall provide by law for a state board for public community and junior colleges which shall advise the state board of education concerning general supervision and planning for such colleges and requests for annual appropriations for their support. The board shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years, not more than two of which shall expire in the same year, and who shall be appointed by the state board of education. Vacancies shall be filled in like manner. The superintendent of public instruction shall be ex-officio a member of this board without the right to vote.
ARTICLE IX
FINANCE AND TAXATION

 17 Payments from state treasury.

Sec. 17. No money shall be paid out of the state treasury except in pursuance of appropriations made by law.
ARTICLE XI
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYMENT

 5 Classified state civil service; scope; exempted positions; appointment and terms of members of state civil service commission; state personnel director; duties of commission; collective bargaining for state police troopers and sergeants; appointments, promotions, demotions, or removals; increases or reductions in compensation; creating or abolishing positions; recommending compensation for unclassified service; appropriation; reports of expenditures; annual audit; payment for personal services; violation; injunctive or mandamus proceedings.

Sec. 5. The classified state civil service shall consist of all positions in the state service except those filled by popular election, heads of principal departments, members of boards and commissions, the principal executive officer of boards and commissions heading principal departments, employees of courts of record, employees of the legislature, employees of the state institutions of higher education, all persons in the armed forces of the state, eight exempt positions in the office of the governor, and within each principal department, when requested by the department head, two other exempt positions, one of which shall be policy-making. The civil service commission may exempt three additional positions of a policy-making nature within each principal department. The civil service commission shall be non-salaried and shall consist of four persons, not more than two of whom shall be members of the same political party, appointed by the governor for terms of eight years, no two of which shall expire in the same year. The administration of the commission's powers shall be vested in a state personnel director who shall be a member of the classified service and who shall be responsible to and selected by the commission after open competitive examination. The commission shall classify all positions in the classified service according to their respective duties and responsibilities, fix rates of compensation for all classes of positions, approve or disapprove disbursements for all personal services, determine by competitive examination and performance exclusively on the basis of merit, efficiency and fitness the qualifications of all candidates for positions in the classified service, make rules and regulations covering all personnel transactions, and regulate all conditions of employment in the classified service. State Police Troopers and Sergeants shall, through their elected representative designated by 50% of such troopers and sergeants, have the right to bargain collectively with their employer concerning conditions of their employment, compensation, hours, working conditions, retirement, pensions, and other aspects of employment except promotions which will be determined by competitive examination and performance on the basis of merit, efficiency and fitness; and they shall have the right 30 days after commencement of such bargaining to submit any unresolved disputes to binding arbitration for the resolution thereof the same as now provided by law for Public Police and Fire Departments. No person shall be appointed to or promoted in the classified service who has not been certified by the commission as qualified for such appointment or promotion. No appointments, promotions, demotions or removals in the classified service shall be made for religious, racial or partisan considerations. Increases in rates of compensation authorized by the commission may be effective only at the start of a fiscal year and shall require prior notice to the governor, who shall transmit such increases to the legislature as part of his budget. The legislature may, by a majority vote of the members elected to and serving in each house, waive the notice and permit increases in rates of compensation to be effective at a time other than the start of a fiscal year. Within 60 calendar days following such transmission, the legislature may, by a two-thirds vote of the members elected to and serving in each house, reject or reduce increases in rates of compensation authorized by the commission. Any reduction ordered by the legislature shall apply uniformly to all classes of employees affected by the increases and shall not adjust pay differentials already established by the civil service commission. The legislature may not reduce rates of compensation below those in effect at the time of the transmission of increases authorized by the commission. The appointing authorities may create or abolish positions for reasons of administrative efficiency without the approval of the commission. Positions shall not be created nor abolished except for reasons of administrative efficiency. Any employee considering himself aggrieved by the abolition or creation of a position shall have a right of appeal to the commission through established grievance procedures. The civil service commission shall recommend to the governor and to the legislature rates of compensation for all appointed positions within the executive department not a part of the classified service. To enable the commission to exercise its powers, the legislature shall appropriate to the commission for the ensuing fiscal year a sum not less than one percent of the aggregate payroll of the classified service for the preceding fiscal year, as certified by the commission. Within six months after the conclusion of each fiscal year the commission shall return to the state treasury all moneys unexpended for that fiscal year. The commission shall furnish reports of expenditures, at least annually, to the governor and the legislature and shall be subject to annual audit as provided by law. No payment for personal services shall be made or authorized until the provisions of this constitution pertaining to civil service have been complied with in every particular. Violation of any of the provisions hereof may be restrained or observance compelled by injunctive or mandamus proceedings brought by any citizen of the state.

OFFICAL BALLOT WORDING:

Proposal 22-3

A proposal to amend the state constitution to establish new individual right to reproductive freedom, including right to make all decisions about pregnancy and abortion; allow state to regulate abortion in some cases; and forbid prosecution of individuals exercising established right

This proposed constitutional amendment would:

   Establish new individual right to reproductive freedom, including right to make and carry out all decisions about pregnancy, such as prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion, miscarriage management, and infertility;
   Allow state to regulate abortion after fetal viability, but not prohibit if medically needed to protect a patient's life or physical or mental health;
   Forbid state discrimination in enforcement of this right; prohibit prosecution of an individual, or a person helping a pregnant individual, for exercising rights established by this amendment;
   Invalidate state laws conflicting with this amendment.

Should this proposal be adopted?

[ ] YES
[ ] NO

What's up with all the other wording about finances, the college,  and other stuff. Is that in Proposal 3?

People and nations have a right to defend themselves. Linking self-defense and abortion doesn't really work. Russia is attacking Ukraine; the Ukrainians and their allies have a right to defend themselves.

I would vote yes on Prop 3 if it doesn't include "gender affirming care" using tax dollars, which is part of the political campaign against it.

Proposal 3 allows for a baby to be killed at least up until it is born.  Anyone who thinks that is ok, is a disgusting human being.  Anyone who doesn't think a baby is alive long before that, is delusional and has obviously never had a child of their own.

Quick take, if you need a lawyer to understand the full language of a State Constitution-changing Proposal......vote not just no, but H#LL NO!

@sca037

Can you visit Michigan.gov and point me to where the proposals say anything about gender issues?

Edit

Saw you linked.. i still don't see anything regarding gender affirmation

I didn't find a single word regarding "gender affirming" procedures buried in this bill. Unless I can be directed to that section, I'm voting Yes.

You don’t need to have had kids to realize how crazy this proposal is.

Beyond the horrors of the actual language of Prop 3, it leaves the door open for the elimination of "parental rights" relating to the care of their children.

"Michigan's Proposal 3   an amendment to the state's constitution   is about far more than unlimited access to abortion. It would also allow clinics to dispense puberty-blocking drugs to minors as a first step toward 'gender reassignment' surgery, without parental knowledge or consent."

https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2022/11/parental-rights-advocates-warn-that-michigans-prop-3-has-a-hidden-agenda-beyond-legalizing-abortion-without-limits/

Agreed.  That should just make it even easier to understand how crazy it is.  What is the most disgusting is the mothers that are supporting this.  I am sure that is a loving household to grow up in with a mom that likes to kill babies.

It would be this section "EVERY INDIVIDUAL HAS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO...STERILIZATION..."

And don't forget this section that allows the killing of a baby at anytime, for any reason, creating no limits, only potentially allowing for some. (Bolding mine)

"NOTWITHSTANDING THE ABOVE, THE STATE MAY REGULATE THE PROVISION OF ABORTION CARE AFTER FETAL VIABILITY, PROVIDED THAT IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHALL THE STATE PROHIBIT AN ABORTION THAT, IN THE PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT OF AN ATTENDING HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL, IS MEDICALLY INDICATED TO PROTECT THE LIFE OR PHYSICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH OF THE PREGNANT INDIVIDUAL."

Still says nothing about gender affirmation

You guys are not doing well on selling your party to others

Of course it doesn't say explicitly the words "gender affirmation", it also doesn't say the words "shoving a steel probe into the babies head to try and kill it and then ripping it apart limb by limb while the baby is still alive" but that is what the proposal is referring to.

What does reproductive freedom mean?  If the writers of the bill wanted it to refer only to abortion they would have stated that, but they chose not too.  Why do you think that is?

Let's bring it back to Ar15.com, when the media, a liberal, or a Democrat talk about an "assault rifle", they are not only talking about the real assault rifles, but all semi-autos.  The language they use is purposefully misleading and changes with time.

https://rumble.com/v1qitmq-child-sexual-mutilation-on-the-michigan-ballot-exposed-by-tucker-carlson.html

https://rumble.com/embed/v1nt05h/?pub=1d51b

So we are expected to vote on a bill about gender affirmation but it really doesn't say that but we just think is does and also tucker said so on fox news?

You are really not helping at all... You guys can do better.. seriously

You are expected to read and understand what words mean and do not mean.  But you have pagan god as your avatar, there is no more I can do to help you understand what we are saying.

Also, I do not have cable nor watch Fox News or Tucker, so ha?

I do not understand what you point are trying to argue here, that somehow even if gender affirmation is not included, that the proposal to the Constitution is OK?

When i asked for proof that the proposal included wording on gender Sca037 responded by linking a tucker video.. a talking head on tv is not proof

I asked for proof and you responded by copy pasteing the proposal that says nothing about gender and jumping to the conclusion that it is...

I am genuinely trying to find some common ground with the right on this and you guys are making it so damn hard..

Look up at the photo Sca037 shared.. that is what i am getting at.. its a blatant lie to sturr up the people

I am aware Sca037 didn't make that.. its been circulating for a while.

I've never quoted myself before, but it seems worth repeating...

I understand what you are getting at but its not super hard to read and google is your friend in helping decipher the lawer speak

But yes it is extremely annoying that they do that just to discourage people, it should be criminal.

Perhaps. But I'm glad to see it passed, and is now in our state constitution.

Honestly, as often as the right bitches and whines about welfare, I don't see why tax dollars going to NOT make mouths to feed would rile them up so much.