User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/18/2022 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#1]
1) Signs (of all sorts) are almost always a polite suggestion/request and not a legal mandate.
2) I would assume places put no gun signs on places because they believe it helps mitigates their civil liability. 3) I don't go places that require me to be a victim. All of those things combined, I would not recommend breaking the law. I would recommend everyone make their own decisions about following laws. I think you can be written a ticket for carrying in a place with a valid sign, and you are asked to leave, and dont? But that sounds like trespassing anyway, and trespassing isnt cool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2022 4:47:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Most of the signs I have sign posted can legally be ignored since the signs do NOT meet the standards set forth by state law. The sings must be a certain size and the letters must also be a certain size. At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony.
Most malls I have been to have really small signs that are not displayed in a conspicuous location at the entry ways. Same goes for a lot of businesses that are posted. Not too many actually took the time to read the state statutes regarding the sign requirements. I am in no way advocating for anyone to break the law. That being said, I'll take my chances with a misdemeanor trespassing charge versus going unarmed in most malls in the state. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2022 5:19:58 PM EDT
[#3]
You mean you don't trust the "mall cops" to rush over on their scooters and assertively point their MiniMag flashlight at shooter?!?!?!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2022 8:43:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Concealed is concealed. Carry everywhere
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 9:56:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the signs I have sign posted can legally be ignored since the signs do NOT meet the standards set forth by state law. The sings must be a certain size and the letters must also be a certain size. At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony. East Hills Mall in St. Joseph doesn’t meet the signage requirements as per the law. I go there MAYBE once a year and IGNORE the signs! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 1:41:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: East Hills Mall in St. Joseph doesn't meet the signage requirements as per the law. I go there MAYBE once a year and IGNORE the signs! Same with the Columbia Mall in Columbia, Mo. I have to go there twice a year to get the wife's ring inspected and cleaned. I carry every time I go into that mall, especially since I am going to a jewelry store. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 2:50:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the signs I have sign posted can legally be ignored since the signs do NOT meet the standards set forth by state law. The sings must be a certain size and the letters must also be a certain size. At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony. Most malls I have been to have really small signs that are not displayed in a conspicuous location at the entry ways. Same goes for a lot of businesses that are posted. Not too many actually took the time to read the state statutes regarding the sign requirements. I am in no way advocating for anyone to break the law. That being said, I'll take my chances with a misdemeanor trespassing charge versus going unarmed in most malls in the state. This sounds like a catch-22 bs case. Missouri is now a permitless State. How old is the posted signs? If signs are older than the permitless carry law, then the felony/state law needs to be changed to reflect the new carry law of people allowing to carry legally without a permit. You're correct that "approved" posted signs do need to be of certain size to pass muster. I believe they must be 13x14 or 11x13(?) with no less than 1" lettering and sign MUST be posted in easily seen place(s) at the front of entrance(s) for everybody to see while passing by. Anything less than this, the sign can be ignored. However, if asked to leave you should, since you are on private property, but having cops called just because is also wrong in many circumstances, because of permitless concealed carry within the State and somebody happens to notice a certain outline on the side/back of a person's waist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 3:48:14 PM EDT
[#8]
I don’t know. I ignore no guns signs everywhere I go unless I have to go through a metal detector.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 5:34:53 PM EDT
[#9]
When I go somewhere that’s LEGALLY posted, I only carry my Rohrbaugh R9S 9mm in a front pocket holster, NO ONE has ever “made it””.
 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 9:29:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds like a catch-22 bs case. Missouri is now a permitless State. How old is the posted signs? If signs are older than the permitless carry law, then the felony/state law needs to be changed to reflect the new carry law of people allowing to carry legally without a permit. The signs are part of the CCW law. There was nothing like that prior, because only open carry was widely legal in Missouri before that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 10:26:06 PM EDT
[#11]
The signs MUST be 11 x 14 with 1” letters
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 11:08:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds like a catch-22 bs case. Missouri is now a permitless State. How old is the posted signs? If signs are older than the permitless carry law, then the felony/state law needs to be changed to reflect the new carry law of people allowing to carry legally without a permit. You're correct that "approved" posted signs do need to be of certain size to pass muster. I believe they must be 13x14 or 11x13(?) with no less than 1" lettering and sign MUST be posted in easily seen place(s) at the front of entrance(s) for everybody to see while passing by. Anything less than this, the sign can be ignored. However, if asked to leave you should, since you are on private property, but having cops called just because is also wrong in many circumstances, because of permitless concealed carry within the State and somebody happens to notice a certain outline on the side/back of a person's waist. The laws were changed to reflect permit less carry. The law now states that if the police are called and you refuse to leave, it is a misdemeanor trespassing charge if you have a permit. If you refuse to leave and do NOT have a permit, then it is a felony trespassing charge. And that is one of the reasons that I do keep my permit current since it give more legal protection in cases like this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2022 11:33:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks fellas, appreciate the replies.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 1:04:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [...] At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony. [... ] Quote HistoryQuoted: [...] At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony. [... ] No. Disregarding the sign is not even a criminal act. At worse, it's an infraction (you can be fined). It's not a misdemeanor. It's also certainly not a felony. Assuming the person is otherwise law-abiding and not prohibited from possessing weapons, carrying a concealed weapon onto any posted private property without a ccw permit incurs exactly the same penalties as with a ccw permit, aside from the permit suspension/revocation aspects. See 571.030 RSMo, subsection 8... 8. A person who commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons under:
The penalties bolded below under subsection 2 of 571.107 RSMo for someone without a ccw permit on posted private property are all that would apply... 2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, or a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her permit, and, if applicable, endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry permit, and, if applicable, endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry permit for a period of three years. [The rest has been snipped as it only applies to ccw permit holders.] |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 7:28:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony . . . Quote HistoryQuoted: At worse you will get a misdemeanor trespassing charge if the law is called and you refuse to leave if and only if you have a permit. Without a carry permit, then the charge becomes a felony . . . This is what people don't. understand when they say Missouri is a constitutional carry state. It's not really. A permit still makes sense. Quoted: This sounds like a catch-22 bs case. Missouri is now a permitless State . . No. It's not. Try to enter the State Capitol with your gun without a permit. Not happening. If you have a permit, no problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 10:34:01 AM EDT
[#16]
The links to section 571.107 need to be updated since the date for that section is 28 August 2014 and that was before permit less carry went into effect. There were changes made to the penalties for carrying on private property that is posted and refusing to leave when asked.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 11:58:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Galleria in Richmond Heights is posted OBNOXIOUSLY LARGE everywhere. And they threaten to have gun-sniffing dogs rough you up too.
Concealed means concealed. A dog sniffs me up I give him some of my jerky. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 1:51:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... gun-sniffing dogs rough you up too...A dog sniffs me up I give him some of my jerky. In the book You and the Police! by Boston T. Party, he suggested having a small ultrasonic transmitter installed in your car to deter dogs. He had one wired to his glove box light. Wonder if you could carry one in your pocket and turn it on if need be. Tell the cops you're trying to pulverize your own kidney stones if you get searched. Hahaha |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2022 4:43:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The links to section 571.107 need to be updated since the date for that section is 28 August 2014 and that was before permit less carry went into effect. There were changes made to the penalties for carrying on private property that is posted and refusing to leave when asked. That is the current language that is linked. There were no changes made to that section by SB 656, the 2016 bill that enacted permitless carry. In fact, there have been no changes to 571.107 at all, by any bill, since 2014, which is why "28 Aug 2014" is the last Effective date shown for the current language of that section. Permitless carry was created by changes made to section 571.030 only, not 571.107. The bill also specified that one particular section -- 571.030 (permitless carry) -- would not go into effect until January 1, 2017. You can read the final, enacted version of SB 656 here: https://www.senate.mo.gov/16info/pdf-bill/tat/SB656.pdf Be aware as you read it that some sections affected by this bill may have indeed been changed again with the passage of more recent bills. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2022 4:17:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The signs MUST be 11 x 14 with 1” letters I thought that got changed... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2022 4:18:49 PM EDT
[#21]
To answer OP's Q though... pretty sure mid rivers used to unmarked if you went in through sears. Couldn't tell you nowadays though, no idea last time I went to a mall.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2022 4:29:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought that got changed... Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought that got changed... Nope, still the rule. It's in RSMO 571.107 Quoted: To answer OP's Q though... pretty sure mid rivers used to unmarked if you went in through sears. Couldn't tell you nowadays though, no idea last time I went to a mall. I know "The Mills" used to be unless you walked in through Cabela's. Never went there anyway, but that was the trick |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2022 4:54:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, still the rule. It's in RSMO 571.107 And 571.030.8(2) 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2022 5:15:12 PM EDT
[#24]
And 571.215 as well!
(The extended/lifetime permit section) Iow, it's in the RSMo in several places. Businesses that post nonconforming signage ought to know better. (Or, maybe some do...) |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/28/2022 4:10:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And 571.215 as well! (The extended/lifetime permit section) Iow, it's in the RSMo in several places. Businesses that post nonconforming signage ought to know better. (Or, maybe some do...) It must have been in one of the markup copies I read, was sure it had taken out the size requirement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/28/2022 7:50:49 PM EDT
[#26]
People still go to the mall?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/28/2022 9:07:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People still go to the mall? Otherwise I wouldn't step foot into a mall now days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2022 12:25:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Wifes rings are only reason I go too. Armed always.
In Disney springs I was made my a dog. Was surprised that they were able to recognize it. It definitely wasn't printing. And hadn't been fired in a while nor oiled. Sniffers must be really good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2022 12:27:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Wifes rings are only reason I go too. Armed always.
In Disney springs I was made by a dog. Was surprised that they were able to recognize it. It definitely wasn't printing. Sniffers must be really good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2022 12:28:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Wifes rings are only reason I go too. Armed always.
In Disney springs I was made by a dog. Was surprised that they were able to recognize it. It definitely wasn't printing. Sniffers must be really good. How do they know if I've been "banned for life" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2022 1:57:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wifes rings are only reason I go too. Armed always. In Disney springs I was made my a dog. Was surprised that they were able to recognize it. It definitely wasn't printing. And hadn't been fired in a while nor oiled. Sniffers must be really good. What happened at DS? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/4/2022 5:33:55 PM EDT
[#32]
I haven't been to a mall in decades. Nothing good happens there.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/17/2022 9:50:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Concealed is concealed. Carry everywhere THIS ?? Concealed is concealed, I carry everywhere that's not on the prohibited list. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
