Are finned / non thumb grips legal in NY as in CA? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are finned / non thumb grips legal in NY as in CA?

Posted: 1/12/2018 8:34:50 PM EDT

Wanting to know if I can sell a complete lower or rifle to a friend in NY if built like that.

Posted: 1/12/2018 9:15:23 PM EDT

[#1]

Well you have to go through an FFL for a private sale, no? I assume the FFL will flag it if they think it's a no go...but the real answer is nobody knows. NY won't give any guidance on what is or isn't legal in their confusing cluster fuck of a law.

I'd say it's legal though.

Posted: 1/13/2018 7:39:51 AM EDT

[#2]

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I'd say it's legal though.

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I respectfully disagree.

Posted: 1/13/2018 9:42:20 AM EDT

[#3]

until the AG/NYSP are in court and are forced to testify the answer is unknown...

I know it took Cali years before the Cali doj was forced to rule the legal monster grip after a court case..

So until someone is jammed up in NY with just that charge no other charges like dui, drugs etc you will never know..

Posted: 1/13/2018 10:50:26 AM EDT

[#4]

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I respectfully disagree.

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Can you wrap your hand around it fully as is? No? Then it can't be a pistol grip.

Is it permanent? No. Does anything in the law say it has to be permanent? No.

Posted: 1/13/2018 11:30:23 AM EDT

[#5]

California defines what a pistol grip is. Here is their definition.

(d) “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger while firing.”

We do not have such a definition. A pistol grip wrapped in kydex is just a pistol grip wrapped in kydex. The pistol grip is still there attached to the rifle. It would be no different than carrying a pistol with a threaded barrel and saying that it isn't a threaded barrelled pistol because it's in a kydex holster.

Posted: 1/13/2018 11:53:57 AM EDT

[#6]

I mean I guess...

Just do a Thordsen stock.

Posted: 1/13/2018 12:00:43 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
California defines what a pistol grip is. Here is their definition.

(d) “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger while firing.”

We do not have such a definition. A pistol grip wrapped in kydex is just a pistol grip wrapped in kydex. The pistol grip is still there attached to the rifle. It would be no different than carrying a pistol with a threaded barrel and saying that it isn't a threaded barrelled pistol because it's in a kydex holster.

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This is integrated (not something that was a pistol grip now wrapped in kydex) and around $10 on ebay or amazon... is it a pistol grip? Guess if can get FFL in NY to transfer lower with this buyer and I would have to defer to his more expert knowledge.

Posted: 1/13/2018 12:36:16 PM EDT

[#8]

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Can you wrap your hand around it fully as is? No? Then it can't be a pistol grip..

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Is that the states definition or yours?

If if push came to shove, I can see they state saying it's just a pistol grip you can't get your hand around.
Same way I don't see the Thordson stock holding up in court if they really wanted you. It's just a really long pistol grip you can put against your shoulder.

Posted: 1/13/2018 12:54:06 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is that the states definition or yours?

If if push came to shove, I can see they state saying it's just a pistol grip you can't get your hand around.
Same way I don't see the Thordson stock holding up in court if they really wanted you. It's just a really long pistol grip you can put against your shoulder.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Can you wrap your hand around it fully as is? No? Then it can't be a pistol grip..

Is that the states definition or yours?

If if push came to shove, I can see they state saying it's just a pistol grip you can't get your hand around.
Same way I don't see the Thordson stock holding up in court if they really wanted you. It's just a really long pistol grip you can put against your shoulder.

That can be said for ALL stocks. Many normal wood Fudd stocks have, for decades, been called "pistol grip stocks" because of how you grip it. Angled a little as opposed to straighter.

I guess the language is "conspicuously protrudes" for that reason?

Thordsen is just a Fudd stock attached to an AR. It doesn't protrude like a stand alone pistol grip.

If that's illegal then all stocks that you can grip with your hand are illegal.

But yeah I agree they can prosecute for anything they want...NY politicians knew nothing about guns and made the law as best as they could. Like total fucking
traitorous idiots.

Op...that one piece non pistol grip looks to be more legal as it is definitely not a pistol grip in disguise.

Posted: 1/22/2018 2:50:03 PM EDT

[#10]

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That can be said for ALL stocks. Many normal wood Fudd stocks have, for decades, been called "pistol grip stocks" because of how you grip it. Angled a little as opposed to straighter.

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I would say that it's been for a lot more than what "for decades" would imply (technically, you could say 150 years was "for (15) decades," but most wouldn't.) For example, the Winchester 1876 was the first of their lever-action rifles to be offered with a "pistol grip" style stock. As compared with all previous models' "straight" stocks, they added in a curved, swepted-down portion that resembled grips found on the dominant pistols of the day (revolvers). These days, the term "pistol grip" used in AW laws/bans is usually more reflective of the dominate pistols of our time (semi-autos).

However, the distinction that gets the Thordsen and Ares/FightLite stocks through is that they are, as I noted above, pistol grip STYLED rifle stocks. Thordsen won't make a stand-alone swept-back grip, because they feel it wouldn't be OK in NY (linked image is photoshopped.)

Posted: 1/22/2018 7:05:32 PM EDT

[#11]

"That can be said for ALL stocks." NOW you're thinking like Schneiderman!

Thordsen.... also clearly a thumbhole stock. Just a large one.

Posted: 1/23/2018 2:20:19 PM EDT

[#12]

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"That can be said for ALL stocks." NOW you're thinking like Schneiderman!

Thordsen.... also clearly a thumbhole stock. Just a large one.

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Apparently Thordsen specifically leaves a gap between the stock and the buffer tube so it is explicitly NOT a thumbhole stock.

Posted: 1/23/2018 3:24:45 PM EDT

[#13]

Yes a gap. A gap for sure. But I've never seen it written anywhere that a thumbhole stock can't have a gap. Nor have I ever seen anyone's opinion that mattered say it was legal because of a gap. That's my point, try as we might we can't will, wish and want things inti being legal, no matter how hard we try. Things aren't okay just because we want them to be. We really have no idea.

Posted: 1/23/2018 4:31:41 PM EDT

[#14]

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Yes a gap. A gap for sure. But I've never seen it written anywhere that a thumbhole stock can't have a gap. Nor have I ever seen anyone's opinion that mattered say it was legal because of a gap. That's my point, try as we might we can't will, wish and want things inti being legal, no matter how hard we try. Things aren't okay just because we want them to be. We really have no idea.

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Until a Court of competent jurisdiction in the State rules on it there is no clear path to compliance. It will take some poor schmuck risking his liberty and treasure to take it to trial as a test case. It is a big risk to roll the dice on.

Posted: 2/13/2018 8:50:31 AM EDT

[#15]

Why not cut the grip off completely or use a spur grip

Posted: 2/13/2018 12:32:09 PM EDT

[#16]

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Why not cut the grip off completely or use a spur grip

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Because you can't safely or properly handle a rifle with a stupid spur grip. Spur grip is a range toy, as is a fixed mag gun. Not for actual self defense or serious use.

Thordsen stock at least allows you to grip and aim about as well as a pistol grip.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are finned / non thumb grips legal in NY as in CA?

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