Ar pistol/law folding brace - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ar pistol/law folding brace

Posted: 1/23/2018 8:29:14 PM EDT

I have a AR pistol, with a pinned magazine which makes it legal. Is there any reason I couldn't legally mount a law folding brace in NY to it? Remember, the mag is not detachable so as far as I understand it I can have "evil features" on it. If I'm wrong please let me know why. Thanks, Woody

Posted: 1/23/2018 10:42:23 PM EDT

[#1]

LOL

I googled to help you and because I'm curious and found you getting the answer on another forum.

Seems to be fine.

Posted: 1/23/2018 11:30:50 PM EDT

[#2]

Kzin, I thought i knew a fair amount about NY pistol law but I realized I knew nothing about ar pistols. I appreciate you searching. As you point out I think I found my answers. If you are considering buying one of these i would encourage it.

Posted: 1/24/2018 8:37:54 AM EDT

[#3]

Just not in Nassau and Suffolk. Big surprise there.

Posted: 1/24/2018 1:42:55 PM EDT

[#4]

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Just not in Nassau and Suffolk. Big surprise there.

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They don't allow AR pistols? Even though they are NYS legal?

WTF could they do if say, I registered an AR pistol on my permit in an upstate county, then moved to LI? Would they deny my license transfer? I don't think they can do that. My permit was signed off on my a judge, as was the amendment.

Just wondering.

Posted: 1/24/2018 5:25:40 PM EDT

[#5]

You can absolutely register fixed mag AR pistols in Nassau county. DSI advertised on their facebook page.

Step 1: Order this online. https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-hailstorm/dark-storm-ds15-hailstorm-fixed-magazine-5.56-pistol-black/

Step 2: Take the receipt which has the full gun (serial number/barrel length etc) receipt down to NCPD.
Step 3: NCPD gives you purchase document
Step 4: Go down to DSI and pick it up.
Step 5: Annoy all the other people at the indoor range because it's so loud.

Posted: 1/24/2018 8:55:03 PM EDT

[#6]

How did you pin the mag?

Posted: 1/24/2018 10:58:42 PM EDT

[#7]

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How did you pin the mag?

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Dark Storm fixed mag lowers are manufactured with no external mag release at all(not even a hole machined) and a set screw that is only accessible with the action open.
Probably the most definitely legal fixed mag AR around.

eta - not clear if you were talking to op or guy just above you.
oh well somebody may want to know about the dark storm :)

Posted: 1/26/2018 2:05:51 PM EDT

[#8]

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You can absolutely register fixed mag AR pistols in Nassau county. DSI advertised on their facebook page.

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DSI's Facebook you say? Well then it must be true....

I can tell you with 100% certainty you cannot. Your best course of action would be to call NCPD PLS and ask for yourself.

If anyone wants to PM me I can give you a POC to speak to.

Posted: 1/26/2018 5:24:10 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
DSI's Facebook you say? Well then it must be true....

I can tell you with 100% certainty you cannot. Your best course of action would be to call NCPD PLS and ask for yourself.

If anyone wants to PM me I can give you a POC to speak to.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
You can absolutely register fixed mag AR pistols in Nassau county. DSI advertised on their facebook page.

DSI's Facebook you say? Well then it must be true....

I can tell you with 100% certainty you cannot. Your best course of action would be to call NCPD PLS and ask for yourself.

If anyone wants to PM me I can give you a POC to speak to.

I believe ya...But do they have the "power" to deny any gun they want? I mean I know they have to sign off on any amendment, but I could see them getting challenged for denying a legal handgun.

I can also see them registering it, without knowing it's an AR pistol. Looks like they don't require a pistol "inspection" anymore...

So really Nassau should just take the word of the FFL that the pistol is NYS legal...

Posted: 1/27/2018 1:56:33 AM EDT

[#10]

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I believe ya...But do they have the "power" to deny any gun they want? I mean I know they have to sign off on any amendment, but I could see them getting challenged for denying a legal handgun.

I can also see them registering it, without knowing it's an AR pistol. Looks like they don't require a pistol "inspection" anymore...

So really Nassau should just take the word of the FFL that the pistol is NYS legal...

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Bingo.

Precisely what happened. And as a kicker is no one would have ever known most had the dude not posted pics on teh LI interwebz.

Regarding "power" how did the NYSP come the "determination" that a Rossi Mare's Leg pistol that's a pistol in 49 other states is a SBR? Little fiefdoms. I think the last successful challenge was the Chwick challenge of the Nassau colored gun ban.

So I'm sure if someone has 20-30k burning a hole in their pocket they could challenge the determination in Nassau or Suffolk as neither allow fixed mag AR pistols to be put on permits. From my understanding the guy surrendered the pistol to PLS and it was returned to DSI and sold.

Posted: 1/30/2018 2:50:22 PM EDT

[#11]

What about the 50 oz. (I think) weight limit? Or does that not apply with a fixed mag?

Posted: 1/30/2018 3:10:53 PM EDT

[#12]

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What about the 50 oz. (I think) weight limit? Or does that not apply with a fixed mag?

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Doesn't apply if fixed mag.

And to sherm...What justification do they use to deny a legal, fixed mag AR pistol?

Posted: 1/31/2018 11:34:32 PM EDT

[#13]

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Doesn't apply if fixed mag.

And to sherm...What justification do they use to deny a legal, fixed mag AR pistol?

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Not anything founded in the 265.00.1 for certain.

Posted: 2/14/2018 12:02:34 PM EDT

[#14]

Legal. Not a stock. Not an AW since it cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Posted: 2/23/2018 12:01:15 PM EDT

[#15]

Not sure how something like the Dark Storm DS15 would be legal under the safe act.

It has a magazine outside of the pistol grip (safe act does not exclude non removable magazine).

The forend could be construed as a "barrel shroud."

It weighs more than 50 oz.

It seems to have 3 of the safe act bullet points of banned features.

https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-hailstorm/dark-storm-ds15-hailstorm-fixed-magazine-5.56-pistol-black/

Posted: 2/23/2018 2:14:55 PM EDT

[#16]

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Not sure how something like the Dark Storm DS15 would be legal under the safe act.

It has a magazine outside of the pistol grip (safe act does not exclude non removable magazine).

The forend could be construed as a "barrel shroud."

It weighs more than 50 oz.

It seems to have 3 of the safe act bullet points of banned features.

https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-hailstorm/dark-storm-ds15-hailstorm-fixed-magazine-5.56-pistol-black/

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Actually, it explicitly does.

PL 265 definitions read as follows;

22. "Assault weapon" means

(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a thumbhole stock;

(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(v) a bayonet mount;

(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or muzzle compensator;

(vii) a grenade launcher; or

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a thumbhole stock;

(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;

(v) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a thumbhole stock;

(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;

(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; or

(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;

Besides, I wouldn't buy a single thing Dark Storm makes. Not only is everything they make out of spec, but they are crooks and they are no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

Posted: 2/23/2018 3:28:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

Actually, it explicitly does.

PL 265 definitions read as follows;

22. "Assault weapon" means

(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a thumbhole stock;

(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(v) a bayonet mount;

(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or muzzle compensator;

(vii) a grenade launcher; or

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a thumbhole stock;

(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;

(v) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a thumbhole stock;

(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;

(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; or

(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;

Besides, I wouldn't buy a single thing Dark Storm makes. Not only is everything they make out of spec, but they are crooks and they are no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

View Quote

c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

Ok so if I took an AR-15 receiver and registered it as a pistol, then put in a 10 round mag and used a mag lock, like this from DD's Ranch, then it would not be an assault pistol and it would be OK in NY?

Posted: 2/23/2018 6:19:00 PM EDT

[#18]

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c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

Ok so if I took an AR-15 receiver and registered it as a pistol, then put in a 10 round mag and used a mag lock, like this from DD's Ranch, then it would not be an assault pistol and it would be OK in NY?

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As long as it has a fixed mag you can have all of the so called evil features you want and no weight rule applies. The real question which the state will not answer is what constitutes a fix mag.

Posted: 2/23/2018 6:34:46 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

Ok so if I took an AR-15 receiver and registered it as a pistol, then put in a 10 round mag and used a mag lock, like this from DD's Ranch, then it would not be an assault pistol and it would be OK in NY?

View Quote

Correct, however to be safe I would figure out a way to fix the mag in such a way that removal would destroy the weapon. Its the only way to be sure they don't get crafty and use it as evidence against you at your trial.

Posted: 2/23/2018 10:43:53 PM EDT

[#20]

If we will be that paranoid the I should probably get rid of my sks as I could remove the mag if I take apart the gun. I could then use the duck bill mags.

Posted: 3/2/2018 4:34:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Does a lower receiver for an AR pistol have to have "Pistol" engraved on it, at least here in NY?

Posted: 3/3/2018 10:11:01 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
Does a lower receiver for an AR pistol have to have "Pistol" engraved on it, at least here in NY?

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no

Posted: 3/3/2018 10:12:36 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:
Does a lower receiver for an AR pistol have to have "Pistol" engraved on it, at least here in NY?

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I do not believe so, a new frame/receiver that has never been built as a Rifle (re: Rifle/carbine buffer tube installed) is 4473'd as "Other" and CAN be built as a Handgun. While it's not absolutely clear, one should be able to take said stripped receiver to a NY Licensed Handgun Dealer, have them do a P-12 on it then the SP get their notification (that'll take five years to input), you'll get a receipt for a handgun, the Clerks can amend your Licenses, and the Dealer can attach the purchase coupon to his books.

Posted: 3/4/2018 2:13:46 AM EDT

[#24]

I've thought of adding one to mine

Posted: 3/4/2018 3:30:51 PM EDT

[#25]

Thanks for all the info. I have heard conflicting information. Different dealers tell me different things and in Erie county the guy at the permit office said he didn't care and just wants to know if it is a semi auto or revolver. He is familiar with people putting ARs on their permits so not an issue.

I put an AR receiver on my permit so I will be building it as a 300 blackout or 223 soon. I am also working on getting a 9mm receiver to finally finish my 9mm build.

Posted: 3/5/2018 1:08:36 PM EDT

[#26]

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From my understanding the guy surrendered the pistol to PLS and it was returned to DSI and sold.

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I just sent DSI an email including all of your information about this to see what their take is on this. I personally know of a bunch of AR pistols (pre-1994 pre-bans with detachable magazines) on Nassau county permits. I'm not seeing how they can legally deny it if it's compliant with NY state law.

Posted: 3/5/2018 1:10:46 PM EDT

[#27]

And here's the response I just got from DSI:

We were able to get a few registered before we ran into a problem with Nassau County. We are in the process of retaining an attorney to challenge their illegal refusal to place these on licenses.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ar pistol/law folding brace

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