A Florida Cop's Explanation on why Miami Beach Police acted the way it did in regards to the 2nd Amendment.



As a Floridian, a gun owner, and a law enforcement officer. Let me explain what lead up to and caused the Miami Beach incident. Florida is called the 'Gunshine State due to a very popular belief that Florida's firearm laws are very liberal.

Here's the truth; Florida does not have liberal firearm laws. Our laws are middle of the road and creeping towards worse. No campus carry, no general open carry, and no non-permitted carry of any type except for vehicles and private property (live in an apartment and walk to your car in the common area parking lot with your gun concealed on you equals breaking the law). We have a law that restricts shooting on private property (property must be an acre minimum with one acre between residences/buildings). We have no background exemption with a CCW and anyone under 21 cannot buy a firearm. Counties are allowed to heavily restrict private sales and they are allowed to lengthen waiting periods. All firearm and ammunition sales are banned during states of emergencies. Plus we have a very vague restraining order law that can strip you of your rights with little recourse in court.

On top of that, the limited permitted open carry we do have is never brought up as a legal means of exercising of our 2nd Amendment Rights by the State. We have a Republican Party that is anti gun and a Democrat Party that is extremely anti gun. The culture pushed by the State is that unless you get permission, you can't do anything.

Culture is the issue. Florida's firearms culture is one of permission, not freedom. Only 36% of Floridians are born in Florida. The other 64% of our residents are folks from other states or from other countries. They bring with them their own voting patterns and life experiences. South Florida is especially known as the sixth borough of New York City because of that and we all know how friendly New York City is towards Civil Rights like the 2nd Amendment.



Culture just doesn't affect the common citizenry. It also affects Law Enforcement. In South Florida, it is very much a 'King's Men' attitude, and Law Enforcement are all about that mentality. Many are actually cops from up north (who are drawing retirement from up there, while working down here) who brought the same mindset with them. And the Police Culture from the North East is that cops are taught that citizens with guns equal bad.

Some have stated that the MBPD Patrol Officers who responded were feigning confusion over the interpretation of the law. They probably honestly didn't know the law since they were never instructed in it and relied on their training. The issue at hand with MBPD and many other agencies is the culture and training (lack there of) when it comes to a number of laws and the civil rights of the citizenry.

Police are told by their trainers and command staff that Open Carry is verboten in Florida. That is the constant message parroted across the State. Police are also told if they see someone with a gun, (ie, the common citizen) it is wrong and that that person must be doing something criminal. This all comes from the culture of politics that is embedded within agencies from command staff and the political staff of the cities that they serve and that determines how orders and training that come down from the top are given, explained, and interpreted.

We saw that with Broward County and the cluster that was the response to and cause of Parkland.

Miami Beach is a Leftist Democrat run city. Just to give you an idea of how Leftist Miami Beach is. The current Florida Democrat candidate front runner for Florida Governor is former Miami Beach Mayor Philip Levine and he is currently a major bank roller in the post Parkland Gun Control movement in Florida.



It is a city no different than any other Authoritarian Leftist city in the US like Berkley or Chicago or Washington DC. The Police are a representation of the culture of the city government and the people who live there. Authoritarian Statists that believe they know what is best for you and me.

The Miami Beach Police showed their attitude when they even told a caller who stated that he was cleared under Florida State Statute 790.25 (3)(h) that he can openly carry and the police department through a number of people on the phone told him he was wrong and they all did the classic cop move. Push it off to someone else to it can be their problem instead of actually getting to the root of it. They told him call Florida Fish & Wildlife or Florida Department of Law Enforcement and get it in writing. Even though the statute is clear and easy to find, especially when the caller pointed it out exactly what the statute number was and what chapter it was located under.

Furthermore, Miami Beach Police Chief Daniel J. Oates made a statement following the incident and it shows exactly why what happened, happened.

What climate? It being summer and law abiding Floridians are fishing? That climate? Or does the good chief mean the climate within his agency and city that gun control is good and that anyone exercising their 2nd Amendment Rights are up to no good and are criminals. His former boss is now running for Governor and is bankrolling the gun control narrative in Florida. Is that the climate he is referring to?

New Smyrna Beach resident and Florida Carry executive director Sean Caranna forwarded to the Miami Herald a letter from Lighthouse Point's Christopher Philpot to Chief Oates that says "on June 24, 2018 a few friends and I will be open carrying holstered handguns while fishing off of South Pointe Pier in Miami Beach."

The letter, dated June 7, quotes Florida Statute 790.25(3)(h), which allows a person hunting, camping or fishing to openly carry a gun, and states he's writing Chief Oates because "I'm sure there will be citizens that do not know the law. They may contact law enforcement when they see someone open carrying a holstered handgun."

But Chief Oates said through Miami Beach police spokesman Ernesto Rodriguez claimed that he never received any such letter by e-mail or regular mail.

My own contacts within Florida Carry forwarded me the letter that was sent to Chief Oates and we also have the phone call that was made to MBPD.

So the agency was contacted both by phone and mail (which they deny and claimed never happened) and yet this still happened.

For MBPD to show up in the manner they did while law abiding Floridians that aren't presenting any threat whatsoever, and approach them as if it were a felony stop was wrong. Simple possession of a holstered firearm is not a threat. But that goes back to mindset and culture within MBPD and to a degree, Florida Law Enforcement as a whole since the common message to fresh faces in the academy and the guys working the beat is that the citizen with gun equals bad guy since only cops and bad guys have guns.

But this isn't just an issue with Miami Beach Police. A few years back, when some in the Florida Legislature was considering legalizing Open Carry. A number of Chiefs and Sheriffs showed their opinions. Sheriff of Pinellas County, Bob Gualtieri was the most vocal.

The City of Tampa had a similar situtation in 2015 with another Fisherman. Florida resident George Freeman was legally open carrying while fishing and Tampa Police repsonded in a similar manner. They detained him for 70 minutes and once they realized they were in the wrong. They trespassed Mr. Freeman as a means to get even with him. It is currently in court right now and Florida Carry is fighting it.

And for a real glimpse of how Florida Law Enforcement views the public being armed. I give you Dale Lee Norman's incident from 2012. A Floridian who was legally carrying under the authority of a CCW permit. Mr. Norman had a 'wardrobe malfunction' and his gun was exposed. The City of  Fort Pierce Police Department decided to take action.  I'll let the video show you what FPPD really thinks about the common citizen carrying a firearm.



Now remember, this was in 2012. A year after State Senator Bogdanoff (R-Fort Lauderdale) gutted SB 234 (Open Carry) and made it a bill about legal protection for accidental exposure when it was signed into law. Mr. Norman was covered under that bill and yet the police did what you see.

In my honest experience. I don't know every statute and I constantly learn. I also keep a cheat sheet on common statutes and a statute book to make sure that I enforce them properly. I have even had suspects inform me of statutes and I looked it up and go "John Q Public was right" and thank them. Especially when it is a case or call that isn't your everyday event. But I do know chapter 790 because it is very important. We have over 1.5 million active CCW permits in the state and a lot more gun owners than that. Many that simply choose to only carry in their vehicles, homes, or businesses only since it is not required to have a CCW permit to do so.

When I worked for a certain prior agency, the training staff told us that we have the authority to arrest anyone that has a Florida CCW permit and an out of state ID since they said the law is that you must have a Florida Driver's License or ID and it must be carried in conjunction with the Florida CCW permit and you have to be a State Resident. I had to correct them on that and show them that we issue non resident CCW permits to folks that reside out of state.

Another incident I had was with a coworker in another former agency I worked for. That officer wanted to charge a driver with illegal conceal carry. As the arrest affidavit was being written, I reviewed it and corrected the officer. It was a traffic stop on a motorcyclist. The driver had a Glock in a bookbag and it was strapped to the rear of the seat. The officer detained the driver for that. I explained to that officer that a zipped up bookbag is legally defined as 'securely encased' under chapter 790 and that the State Attorney's Office will throw it out. The officer didn't believe me and instead of looking up chapter 790, called the legal section. They stated I was right and told that officer study chapter 790.

Again. training and culture. The mindset was that guns in the hands of the people was wrong. And that was the types of issues that caused the very problem you saw happen in Miami Beach.

When people are raised with certain ideas. It is very hard to break them of that. Culture is very much an issue and especially with guns. Hence why the gun control side tries to remove public viewing of firearm related activities from the youth at large. No rifle teams in schools, no after school hunting for kids, making everything a permit and permission slip to make it seem that it isn't a right but a privilege. If they drive gun ownership into the dark recesses of society and make it seem taboo. People will start to believe that it is taboo and wrong. Look at Miami Beach as a shining example.

Not all police are bad mind you. Some are truly fighting hard and are on our side. But you, the People of the Gun need to understand why what happened, happened. Just like the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s & 1960s and the Gay Rights Movement of the 1990s & 2000s. Gun Owners need to fight for their rights and sometimes, the end result will be what you saw in Miami Beach.





But the fight is the same. Oppressive Authoritarians restricting the civil liberties and rights of honest law abiding Americans. We need to not hide in the shadows and instead be open, loud, and stand strong in the face of despotic intimidation.

The Sheriff before Sheriff Bob also said he'd have deputies draw on anyone open carrying at the hearing on the legislation, Sheriff Coats little tirade was on youtube too.
I once was a member of the St. Pete Police Range, now closed to the public by anti gun mayor Kriseman and anti gun chief Halloway. The Cops ranting on about how awful open carry would be was terrifying. One even said it would scare away tourists from up north.
While most of the retired cops were in the debate that day the north eastern accent was thick as the BS they spouted.

Thank you, Miami_JBT, for your thoughts and perspective on the matter. I and many others truly appreciate your tireless efforts to protect and secure the 2A Rights of all Floridians. Particularly since it would be very easy for you to stand behind your LEO credentials and just say "fuck it -I got mine". Again, THANK YOU!

Sadly, I agree that things are likely* only going to get worse for gun owners in Florida. We are fighting a tidal shift in voting demographics.

I grew up in Florida in the 1970s and one of my memories as a 10yo was riding my bike with my friends and we all had our BB guns strapped across the handle bars. A Deputy Sheriff drove up on us and gestured us to pull over. He asked us where and what we were going to shoot and we told him. He said; "OK, you boys keep it safe but if I hear any reports of windows or street lights being shot up with BBs, I'll know who to look for". We got the message loud & clear; be boys, have fun but keep it safe and don't fuck with anybody! I am sure if that were to happen today there would be a SWAT team response and we would be in custody while the press posted pictures of our "arsenal".

* I am NOT giving up the fight.

Well stated and accurate.   Alachua County just extended the wait period to 5 days.

Do you remember when under the original state preemption law without penalties for violations, the counties and municipalities enacted illegal local anti gun statutes under the guise of ignorance of the state preemption law?

Even though gun rights advocates continually bombarded their city and county attorneys regarding the illegality of their actions under state law?

Same exact thing.

Feigned ignorance and harassment of law abiding citizens.

TTAG, you're it.... article posted - A Florida Cop's Explanation Of The Miami Beach Police Open Carry Incident

Florida has been on the cusp of becoming a progressive shithole for years. Sad to say, if it ever gets there, I'll find another state. It seems that once a state goes full guntard, there's no going back.

As much as I love my home state. I'll be right behind you.

You know I remember as a kid here in Florida riding my bike to the ACE hardware store to buy .22 cal. ammo with my .22 across the handle bars of my bike. This was in the 70s in Plant City. No one gave me a look one way or the other.

Got out of high school in 79 went right into the Army. Came back in the mid 80s and it was like the world had started to change.

The liberal movement was starting. I remember when Clinton became President and yes that's when that woman whose name I will not mention he was married to came into our lifes. The birth of the total anti gun movement happens with a vengeance.

What saved us was the internet. BECAUSE up until then other than radio. All we had was the NEWS MEDIA outlets and they were all backing the liberal movement and anti gun movement with false gun statistics.

But with the advent of the internet, people could speak out, do their own research. Plus hear what other had to say around the country and around the world.

They started figuring out everything that they were being told about guns were lies. That's when the birth of the pro gun movement really took off from my prospective.

I remember a time when computers per say did not EXIST. Not the lap tops, desk tops or let me say it right.

I remember a time before personal home computers and the internet. I remember DOS and everything thing up to now.

The NEWS MEDIA outlets dominated all of our information other than what radio we got and the big man RUSH. You guys think he's hard now. You should have heard him back then. WOW

But when we got personal home computers and the internet. That's when the POLITICAL LEADERS lost control of what information we got.

That's when slowly the anti gun movement started to lose the power it had in those days. The anti gun movement was tremendous back then to. The DEMOCRATS, Bill and yes even Hillary.

Even back then Hillary wanted power and the DEMOCRATS kept having to reel her back. Their were plenty of reports of that sadistic nut going off on BILL and everyone around her. She was a power hungry mad person.

Imagine if she'd became President. Imagine a female Hitler with her followers. See how her left over followers are attacking you and I and America today even. Just imagine if she'd won.

Because of the internet Americans could prove the information we were being spoon fed by the politicians and MEDIA were lies.

BECAUSE unlike then we now have personal computers and the internet and social media.

For better or worse it did help in kick starting the pro gun movement and help Americans become aware of just how important the 2nd admendment is.

Along with all of our admendments and that there are powers trying to destroy those rights. Information is a powerful weapon against CORRUPTION.

Now those corrupt powers are trying or want to control how we get our information. Trying to decide for us what information we have access to.