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Link Posted: 10/31/2020 6:56:51 PM EDT
So can i buy a 10 round ca compliant rifle then buy 30 round magazines and use them or not?
Link Posted: 10/31/2020 7:24:10 PM EDT
You cannot legally purchase a 30-round mag right now.
Link Posted: 10/31/2020 8:02:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2020 9:37:28 PM EDT by Trollslayer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrumpMixtape:
So can i buy a 10 round ca compliant rifle then buy 30 round magazines and use them or not?
View Quote


I agree, SoCalcSurvivor.  

TrumpMixtape, if you were not a resident of California and did not already own them and have them inside California as of January, 2000, you could not legally buy them now.

1.  Let's say you were a resident here prior to January, 2000 and owned some standard capacity magazines.  

2.  Then, you buy a CA-compliant rifle that has "features" (for example, a pistol grip) but remains compliant because its 10 round magazine is fixed in the receiver and the receiver has to be opened to reload the rifle.  

3.  Then you remove the fixed magazine and replace it with EITHER a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds (even if the magazine was legally owned).  

What you did with that last operation was you created an illegal assault weapon.

It wasn't the really the magazine, itself, it was how you used it in the previously compliant rifle that caused the felony violation.

Link Posted: 10/31/2020 9:55:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
The firearms that use the high capacity magazines are part of the context for the magazine.  Arguments regarding the magazines require context.  Still, a ruling will (most likely) address only the magazines.
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On the magazine capacity case, it won't address anything beyond magazine capacity and possession.  The "fixed" magazine 10 round limit isn't a part of this case but is part of the AW cases.  So while the attorney was babbling about not needing more than 10 rounds, "we" lost the opportunity to point out that the "featureless alternative" has no capacity limit in the AW definitions..
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 3:28:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TrumpMixtape:
So can i buy a 10 round ca compliant rifle then buy 30 round magazines and use them or not?
View Quote


Fixed-mag rifles cannot use 30 round mags.

I think you meant to ask that if you got a featureless rifle with detachable mags that came with a 10-round magazine, that you could use the 30-round magazines you got during freedom week and use them, right?  Because you can.  And because, of course you got those magazines during freedom week.
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 2:43:44 PM EDT
Are you sure? Im not an expert but I thought featureless 10 round ca compliant AR's arent fixed mags. The feature version could use standard size magazine would have to be, but that could be circumvented with mag kits like juggernaut. I still have literally no idea what this ruling did. This is just for possession and people who owned magazines already, and not to purchase?

Sorry i dont mean to be one of those new forum users
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 2:46:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


Fixed-mag rifles cannot use 30 round mags.

I think you meant to ask that if you got a featureless rifle with detachable mags that came with a 10-round magazine, that you could use the 30-round magazines you got during freedom week and use them, right?  Because you can.  And because, of course you got those magazines during freedom week.
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I thought the state had 2 days to appeal the 9th circuits ruling and did not and therefore freedom week is back? It was the judges ruling of bringing back freedom week which was being challenged wasnt it?
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 2:56:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 3:39:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2020 3:39:55 PM EDT by Trollslayer]
The simple answer to the simplest interpretation of the OP's question:

NO.
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 3:43:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2020 3:45:03 PM EDT by TrumpMixtape]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
The state had more than 2 days and they got the next one in on time. So now we're waiting for the en banc hearing.

If they lose that one, they will definitely take it to SCOTUS. If they lose there, every other state with a mag ban will lose also!

So for now we're just doing the waiting game for the next hearing. While we wait, you're stuck using your 10 round mags and all the high cap ones you bought during freedom week.
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This is the most unamerican shit possible. CA compliant AR grips remind me of those north korean drawings of torture positions








Frustrate prospective gunbuyers to the point they just think its not worth it..
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 4:43:10 PM EDT
TrumpMixtape, I can think of so many other examples of 2nd Amendment infringement and more serious types of over-reach by the California State and Federal governments, your fin grip analogy is weak in the extreme.  

Save your energy for when the gun grabbers become more active in Arizona.  It's coming soon, given the vast numbers of Californians moving there.
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 5:31:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2020 6:39:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrumpMixtape:
Are you sure? Im not an expert but I thought featureless 10 round ca compliant AR's arent fixed mags. The feature version could use standard size magazine would have to be, but that could be circumvented with mag kits like juggernaut. I still have literally no idea what this ruling did. This is just for possession and people who owned magazines already, and not to purchase?

Sorry i dont mean to be one of those new forum users
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You need to go to the stickied threads or the Ca DoJ site and read up on the laws and the definitions.  California defines "assault weapons" by a set of features or characteristics. If a firearm does not have any of those features/characteristics, it's not an assault weapon.  Hence in some cases, referred to as "featureless."  In the definitions for "featureless," mag capacity is not defined.  However, the laws provide for other sets of features/characteristics to also not be an "assault weapon."  One of those approaches is not having a detachable magazine, that is, a fixed magazine.  By definition, that fixed magazine can not be over 10 rounds in capacity.  The law defines what "fixed" means, in the past, it required a tool to remove (that's gone) and allows for the firearm to be disassembled to remove the magazine.  So in the past the tool method became the bullet button and the disassembly has become the various "separate" the action approaches, maglocks and the like.  It's entirely possible for the same sort of magazine to be both a detachable magazine for featureless applications  or to be assembled into a fixed magazine rifle.

Aside from grandfathered and freedom week magazines, one may not legally possess or import magazines over 10 rounds in capacity.  Legally possessed magazines can be used in featureless firearms.  If you assemble, so to speak, a fixed magazine firearm with a legally possessed magazine over 10 rounds, it's an assault weapon.
Link Posted: 11/3/2020 1:32:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Featureless:



You need to go to the stickied threads or the Ca DoJ site and read up on the laws and the definitions.  California defines "assault weapons" by a set of features or characteristics. If a firearm does not have any of those features/characteristics, it's not an assault weapon.  Hence in some cases, referred to as "featureless."  In the definitions for "featureless," mag capacity is not defined.  However, the laws provide for other sets of features/characteristics to also not be an "assault weapon."  One of those approaches is not having a detachable magazine, that is, a fixed magazine.  By definition, that fixed magazine can not be over 10 rounds in capacity.  The law defines what "fixed" means, in the past, it required a tool to remove (that's gone) and allows for the firearm to be disassembled to remove the magazine.  So in the past the tool method became the bullet button and the disassembly has become the various "separate" the action approaches, maglocks and the like.  It's entirely possible for the same sort of magazine to be both a detachable magazine for featureless applications  or to be assembled into a fixed magazine rifle.

Aside from grandfathered and freedom week magazines, one may not legally possess or import magazines over 10 rounds in capacity.  Legally possessed magazines can be used in featureless firearms.  If you assemble, so to speak, a fixed magazine firearm with a legally possessed magazine over 10 rounds, it's an assault weapon.
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Great explanation thanks!
Link Posted: 11/16/2020 4:23:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2020 4:24:12 PM EDT by NighthawkCx]
No one can ever prove that your +10 round magazines weren't owned before or during freedom week. There is no reason to worry about having normal magazines unless you're a thug going around committing crimes with your guns. If you can find a place that will ship them (some smaller web stores will), then you should go for it. It will show up at your mailbox and everything will be just fine.
Link Posted: 11/16/2020 11:52:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NighthawkCx:
No one can ever prove that your +10 round magazines weren't owned before or during freedom week. There is no reason to worry about having normal magazines unless you're a thug going around committing crimes with your guns. If you can find a place that will ship them (some smaller web stores will), then you should go for it. It will show up at your mailbox and everything will be just fine.
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Wow!  Really?  You are advocating people commit felonies right here on ARFCOM, eh?

I'd advise against this approach.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 2:17:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:


Wow!  Really?  You are advocating people commit felonies right here on ARFCOM, eh?

I'd advise against this approach.
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Originally Posted By NighthawkCx:
No one can ever prove that your +10 round magazines weren't owned before or during freedom week. There is no reason to worry about having normal magazines unless you're a thug going around committing crimes with your guns. If you can find a place that will ship them (some smaller web stores will), then you should go for it. It will show up at your mailbox and everything will be just fine.


Wow!  Really?  You are advocating people commit felonies right here on ARFCOM, eh?

I'd advise against this approach.


He's right, though, so long as you aren't keeping records around or telling everyone about it.  I have no problem with people doing that.  Screw CA.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 3:12:31 AM EDT
Credit card transaction records.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 4:50:35 AM EDT
Cash is king
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 5:56:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 5:59:58 AM EDT by PaDanby]
Yeah, sending cash and using letter mail, makes sense.  Until you get stiffed.  Then what are you going to do? Complain to the BBB or Postal Inspectors that this other party that never heard of you failed to complete a potentially felonious transaction.

Not that I would ever do it, and my cousin in Vegas moved back to CA (long story)  but having some one make a legal transaction  in another location and give/sell  you these articles that are legal where you and they are at the time, might seem a possible way to ensure you get your hands on them for your outlay.

Now you have to decide if importing them is worth the effort for the potential downsides.  And as long as you never get your house searched because you fucked up or a bedmate decides they want to screw you in another more exciting way and drops a dime.  You could probably get some ammo too, in for a dime, in for a dollar,

If you live in LA County, maybe the new law and disorder DA will decide not to prosecute.  He seems to lean that way on a lot of things.

Or wait for a little bit to see how the case is going.  If you were ever a Boy Scout and remembered , "Be Prepared"  you already have a few legal magazines available.  If you didn't?  oh well.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 2:16:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 2:17:53 PM EDT by sysops666]
Bringing up what if scenarios to discourage workarounds of laws that shouldn't exist seems counterproductive to the gun rights supporters IMHO.

Stating that you purchased a magazine during freedom week is the same as configuring your rifle to be Cali compliant. The assumption that the rifle stays compliant during that whole time would be stupid. Much like assuming that all or none of the mags were purchased during a period that would be considered illegal. Well?... Prove it then.

But considering COC and the former LEO trolls who would love to have the last word in this forum, many can't say what the truth really is.

But it is precisely behavior such as this that has made possession so commonplace in california. It is not the compliance of the law that has made our current court cases go so well. It is the fact that these items are in common use.

If people did not find a workaround,then the common use argument would have been out the f****** door.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 6:03:47 PM EDT
There's two things going on.  One is possessing magazines legally from before the laws changed or during "freedom week" or pretending that's when you got them, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.  Short term, the reality is that short of some odd occurrence, and the man getting involved in your life somehow, the chance of being popped for a magazine violation is almost but not zero.

The second thing is the ongoing court battle.  If we lose, won't matter how or when you got "those" magazines.  The chance of getting a "grandfathering" is likely nil.  That's when things will get interesting.  It does seem that Duncan v. Becerra is still moving towards an en banc hearing but no dates yet?
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 8:29:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Featureless:
There's two things going on.  One is possessing magazines legally from before the laws changed or during "freedom week" or pretending that's when you got them, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.  Short term, the reality is that short of some odd occurrence, and the man getting involved in your life somehow, the chance of being popped for a magazine violation is almost but not zero.

The second thing is the ongoing court battle.  If we lose, won't matter how or when you got "those" magazines.  The chance of getting a "grandfathering" is likely nil.  That's when things will get interesting.  It does seem that Duncan v. Becerra is still moving towards an en banc hearing but no dates yet?
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The deadline to make a decision has passed, I believe.  AFAIK nothing either way has been announced.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 11:47:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The deadline to make a decision has passed, I believe.  AFAIK nothing either way has been announced.
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What decision?
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 6:47:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:


What decision?
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The deadline to make a decision has passed, I believe.  AFAIK nothing either way has been announced.


What decision?


On whether or not to decide the case en banc.  The deadline to vote passed over two weeks ago.
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 7:30:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
On whether or not to decide the case en banc.  The deadline to vote passed over two weeks ago.
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To go enblanc was for kalifornia to challenge benitez ruling right?

So if they didnt do enblanc then by default benitezs ruling stands now, correct?
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 3:29:47 PM EDT
That would seem to be the case.  At some point a new amicus brief was accepted for filing, not sure whether that was before or after the en banc decision was made/supposed to be made.  One of the YT sites with at least some legal competence suggested that that shows that there is still activity ongoing.  He wasn't clear on the timing or what it meant though with progress.  I think the impression was that things were still moving forward towards a hearing.
Link Posted: 11/28/2020 11:16:41 PM EDT
Does anyone know when the deadline is for the En Banc request to be granted?  My understanding is that if en banc is not granted, then the panel’s decision stands - magazine ban is void.
Link Posted: 11/28/2020 11:28:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2020 11:29:15 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kevdog:
Does anyone know when the deadline is for the En Banc request to be granted?  My understanding is that if en banc is not granted, then the panel’s decision stands - magazine ban is void.
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I thought the same thing, but if thats true why isnt everyone celebrating right now and threads blowing up all over the place about the victory in kali?

Truth is I dont think anyone knows shit about whats going on right now. Seems everythings in limbo and neither side is confident in pushing the issue.
Link Posted: 11/28/2020 11:38:01 PM EDT
I agree with you Boom_stick, I figured if it was settled we would all be hearing about it. I’ve tried to keep up with the situation so I know what I can bring when I visit the in-laws in California. It does seem like no one knows what is actually going on.

Kevdog
Link Posted: 11/29/2020 10:14:25 PM EDT
The details of how long it can take are available if you put on your waders and go look in the 2A litigation fora on CalGuns.  Basically, it can be a few months, or more.
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 3:15:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 10:03:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2021 10:07:10 PM EDT by Belfry_Express]
Just read up

On to the Supreme Court.

Hope we’re not fucked
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 2:01:02 AM EDT
Looks to me that the 3 panel of Judges are done and it will now go to "En Banc" in front of the 9th Circut.  That means 11 judges will hear it.  

Not over by a long shot...
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 3:09:13 AM EDT
When?

When do we get their ruling, too?
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 6:18:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By atomicferret:
Looks to me that the 3 panel of Judges are done and it will now go to "En Banc" in front of the 9th Circut.  That means 11 judges will hear it.  

Not over by a long shot...
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Probably a bit less than a 1 in 5 chance of getting an RKBA-friendly majority on the 11-judge panel.  We'll likely know the outcome when they announce who is going to be on the panel.  Of course, a few years ago, there was almost no chance of getting an RKBA-friendly majority.  One anti-gun judge is guaranteed to be on the panel.  We'd need a minimum of 6 out of the other 10, from a pool of 28, to be RKBA-friendly, to have a real shot at winning at this level.

If we lose, there is the possibility that all hi-cap mags will become a crime to possess immediately.  It might well come down to an appeal to SCOTUS for a stay pending application for cert when the case is inevitably appealed by our side to SCOTUS.  I think there is another mag case from back east that'll likely be granted cert before an opinion is even issued in this case.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 6:20:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
When?

When do we get their ruling, too?
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Oral arguments will be virtual during the week of March 22.  The exact date and time are TBD.  Their ruling will obviously issue sometime afterwards, quite possibly months afterwards.  If SCOTUS grants cert to the other mag ban case, they may very well wait and see what comes of that before ruling, so it could be some time before we have the final outcome within the 9th Circuit.  Could be even longer before this case is ultimately resolved.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 7:09:00 AM EDT
Fuck! Did we just get boned?? Sounds like it.
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