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Posted: 12/8/2022 8:11:42 PM EDT

"Large-capacity magazine” means a fixed or detachable magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, helical feeding device, or similar device, including any such device joined or coupled with another in any manner, or a kit with such parts, that has an overall capacity of, or that can be readily restored, changed, or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition and allows a shooter to keep firing without having to pause to reload, but does not include any of the following:..."


So, if a magazine is a magazine body, a spring, a follower, and a baseplate, which piece is the "magazine?"

If an AR-15 follower got damaged, could I receive a replacement follower? Could I receive a replacement spring? Could I receive a replacement magazine body?

Couldn't the text of this be construed to ban virtually every magazine? The text says "...to accept more than 10 rounds." It doesn't specificy what caliber those 10 round rounds must be. A 7-round 1911 magazine could "accept" more than 10 rounds of .22LR, after all.

Also, any magazine on the planet could have its capacity increased to over 10 rounds by welding on more metal and using a longer spring. It wouldn't function very well, but, so what....


Link Posted: 12/8/2022 9:47:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Welcome, and thank you fellow magazine enthusiast.
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 9:56:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm concerned about the big bore AR mags, 450, 458 and 50. They just use a 30 round 5.56 mag as a 10rnd mag, so if I have a 458 Socom in my truck with a loaded 10 round mag it'd be illegal because it's readily restorable to accept more than 10 rounds of 5.56 even if it had a big bore follower. That's one reason this is the worst ban in the nation.
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 11:56:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Readily means without difficulty and delay. There is Oregon case law on this. If you don’t have the parts to readily convert the mag on you then it is not an issue.

There is the outliers that get sticky. It could be easily argued the AR mag is a 10 round capacity for a 450. However if your are conceal carrying both a 450 and a 223 rifle having a 450 mag could be an issue.
Link Posted: 12/9/2022 12:12:26 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Readily means without difficulty and delay. There is Oregon case law on this. If you don’t have the parts to readily convert the mag on you then it is not an issue.

There is the outliers that get sticky. It could be easily argued the AR mag is a 10 round capacity for a 450. However if your are conceal carrying both a 450 and a 223 rifle having a 450 mag could be an issue.
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So if a manufacturer made an AR mag that used a standard 30rd magazine body, but had a baseplate that limited the capacity to 10 rounds (something like a dowel/rod pinned it), those would still be legal?

It would also be legal for me to purchase replacement springs/baseplates for my existing, "grandfathered" mags?
Link Posted: 12/9/2022 12:45:26 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


So if a manufacturer made an AR mag that used a standard 30rd magazine body, but had a baseplate that limited the capacity to 10 rounds (something like a dowel/rod pinned it), those would still be legal?

It would also be legal for me to purchase replacement springs/baseplates for my existing, "grandfathered" mags?
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Remember, there is no one that can say it is legal or illegal, not even a lawyer. The court will be where that is determined. However, we can look at the wording of the law and cases that were decided to judge if it would be defendable in court.

Mag bases that block the follower and where the block can not be removed easily and mag still function would work.  However if you had a 10 round mag and a 30 round mag with a block that had interchangeable bases in the wrong place at the wrong time, the 30 round mag could be increased to full capacity readily by swapping parts.

As far as parts for mags, followers are commonly improved, springs are a wearable component and bases are commonly upgraded. It would be easy to defend transferring those parts without a body is not transferring a magazine. Vendors supplying those parts have to interpret this also. Some may decide not to sell to ban areas some or all of those parts. Bodies of magazines are a different story. They define the mags capacity and it would be difficult or impossible to defend they are not the primary component that is the mag.

If you look around, there is some vendors selling all the components of a magazine as a kit. They charge like 2-3x the cost of a normal mag. Those are explicitly defined as a mag in the measure.
Link Posted: 12/9/2022 2:34:09 AM EDT
[#6]

I'm really more just bouncing ideas around than I am looking for actual legal advice.

Suppose a 5.56 10-round magazine (say, with the rod attached to the baseplate) based on the standard 30-round body did exist. It could, theoretically, give gun owners plausible deniability. Suppose I order a bunch of those "Oregon-compliant" AR mags. Then, a year later, I buy a bunch of standard 30-round magazine followers,springs,baseplates. Who's to say whether they're for my "grandfathered" magazines, or to "illegally" modify my Oregon-compliant magazines? Again, hypothetical; I don't expect anybody to actually have a real answer.

A manufacturer needs to do us a solid and make an "Oregon-compliant" magazine with a baseplate that requires some kind of propriertary tool to remove the baseplate.
Link Posted: 12/9/2022 9:56:55 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


I'm really more just bouncing ideas around than I am looking for actual legal advice.

Suppose a 5.56 10-round magazine (say, with the rod attached to the baseplate) based on the standard 30-round body did exist. It could, theoretically, give gun owners plausible deniability. Suppose I order a bunch of those "Oregon-compliant" AR mags. Then, a year later, I buy a bunch of standard 30-round magazine followers,springs,baseplates. Who's to say whether they're for my "grandfathered" magazines, or to "illegally" modify my Oregon-compliant magazines? Again, hypothetical; I don't expect anybody to actually have a real answer.

A manufacturer needs to do us a solid and make an "Oregon-compliant" magazine with a baseplate that requires some kind of propriertary tool to remove the baseplate.
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First of all, why not buy the mags while they are legal right now. If the law is shot down you have your mags. If not, you have your mags. You don’t even need a gun, just the mags.

Secondly, as I read it they are trying to go the CA route to prevent the games you are contemplating. If it can be converted back to a 30 round magazine it is illegal.

Honestly, if you are not fucking around and not a douche bag, I suspect 98% of Leo’s would not push the issue if it was in effect. But do you want to meet that 2%’er who will take you to jail and serve the state it’s first test case? Honestly, I can’t afford the time or $ to be that test case.

But then I have more than a few magazines for each of my guns. This isn’t the first time we have gone down this path in the state or this country.
Link Posted: 12/9/2022 2:02:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


First of all, ...ven need a gun, just the mags.
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Quoted:


First of all, ...ven need a gun, just the mags.

It's not about me or you, did you ever consider that?.... There are plenty of young men out there working their first jobs. Probably not reasonable to expect a 19-year-old, who barely squirred away enough money to buy the rifle/handgun, to buy a lifetime supply of magazines.
I have probably 300+ for my ARs; certainly more than I can count. But what happens if I want to buy another rifle I don't have magazines for, yet? Am I supposed to buy $5,000 worth of magazines for every single weapon I might want in the future?
Quoted:
Secondly, as I read it they are trying to go the CA route to prevent the games you are contemplating. If it can be converted back to a 30 round magazine it is illegal.

I think you're probably wrong, but I guess we'll need a precedent to know for sure. I can convert ANY magazine to 30-rounds with some JB weld, sheet metal, and a couple beers. Heck, I bet I could convert a 7-round to a 90-round 1911 magazine in less than a couple hours. It would probably only be 1% reliable, but that's besides the point. By your logic, wouldn't any magazine be illegal, then?
Quoted:
Honestly, if you are not fucking around and not a douche bag, I suspect 98% of Leo’s would not push the issue if it was in effect. But do you want to meet that 2%’er who will take you to jail and serve the state it’s first test case? Honestly, I can’t afford the time or $ to be that test case.
But then I have more than a few magazines for each of my guns. This isn’t the first time we have gone down this path in the state or this country.

It's not about whether or not LEOs will enforce it... It's more a matter of allowing stores to sell to us...
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